I think a used Pelagos is probably the best value diver from the nice Swiss brands...
I have found myself divested of rolex (hulk and gmt both gone) given their value to sell exceeded their value to me. Between selling both together they probably realised a 100% mark up on the original rrp.
One of the watches i bought in the meantime was a JLC 8 Day PC, freshly serviced, which cost me around 50% of its RRP, to me that seems like bloody good value.
Anything else you have noticed from the less hot brands that represents what you might call 'value' these days?
I think a used Pelagos is probably the best value diver from the nice Swiss brands...
For me, ‘value’ is simply the enjoyment you get from a watch. It’s not about money....that just drags things down. The whole hobby has been distorted, in my eyes. People talk about money, not the actual enjoyment of the watch. Such a shame.
I think Zenith as a brand is good value as a second hand purchase in the UK (and in the US). The models with the elite movements seem to be especially so, but also some of the El Primeros, with the exception of the 1969 re-issues and the first Rainbow chrono.
Would agree with this, but would also add history and rarity as well. Rarity and value quite often are not linked. Certainly a Milsub worth 6 figures to most people ticks both the rarity and value boxes, but there are plenty of watches that are as rare as rocking horse poop that don't carry high price tags. My CWC G10 Navigator from 1980 fits the bill, try finding one for sale and a watch with an excellent military history, but financially it's peanuts compared to other brands and watches, so that to me represents excellent value.
Imho the value proposition really becomes evident when you’re looking at watches costing in the hundreds rather than thousands of pounds. Certina, Timefactors, Scurfa, even Seiko - there’s lots of stuff out there to enjoy without heading into ‘cost of a small car’ territory. If You want to buy 1 watch to wear 24/7 for 20 years (ie if you’re not really ‘into’ watches) I guess it might make sense, but if you get bored and/or like a varied collection there’s lots to find at the shallow end of the watch pool - without spending what would get you a garage full of cars!
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I would have said Seiko (including Grand Seiko), Tudor and Oris must be in the mix (Oris started me off in watches 15 years ago) - I just don't warm to the Seiko look. Most of my collection is Rolex, but I just love the look, build and feel (I started over 10 years ago and just keep accumulating) - I admit their value retention is a nice bonus.
I think early 2000's Omega Seamasters are excellent value. They sell for around 2K or even less sometimes. I have the original Bond version and I love it.
Also my favorite chronograph Ebel 1911 BTR is amazing quality for the money. Inhouse movement (loosely based on Lemania though) and superb finish. Breguet XX uses the same movement. These go around 2K as well which is just ridiculous. The finish rivals ANY high end brand easily.
Also the old "Miami Vice version" with Zenith El Primero is superb value. They can be obtained for around 2K as well. Actually I purchased one myself just recently.
TAG Heuer Aquaracer chrono is one of my favorites too. These are around 1K'ish. Mine is 41mm but there's also 44-45mm version day-date available. I think it's a beautiful watch.
Best value are probably Eddies watches. However, if you want something with a bit of brand recognition, I think Longines are pretty hard to beat providing you can get a good discount.
Maurice Lacroix are conspicuously well-priced for a new Swiss Watch, and they make their own cases too:
(pic credit)
TT
No question, although I have many more expensive, for me it's the BFK.
I find it tricky to discuss value and watches at the same time.
I mean, is anything value if its not your first choice?
Value ? a used Oris or Grand Seiko at the right price.
Once you go up to the higher end luxury watches i dont think value exsists, only in your own head.
One of the 07 or 08 black faced breitling navitimers I've just bought one they look just like the brand new ones that cost 6k but are a sensible size and have an easy to service eta movement
Well I must be lucky. I like Rolex, in fact I like Rolex an awful lot, so as far as I am concerned it is Rolex and nothing else.
I am also even luckier that Rolex climb in value to the point where it does not cost you to own a Rolex, you actually get paid to own a Rolex.
I am a truly happy bunny.
I wasn't suggesting any bubble was going to burst although at some point the current situation with Rolex will have a correction I imagine.
If you were to look at any watch over the past half century it would generally be worth more now that what it was when purchased new.
Yes, Rolex are great value if you can afford them - and they used to be affordable - but they aren’t any more. They cost a fortune for what you get, and even if you can it’s a faff to get the one you want, you need to make sure it’s insured etc. And because they are now valued so highly, unpleasant types in your local town/city/pub may well be tempted to relieve you of your showy investment so you have to be a bit careful. YMMV of course, and every investment carries risk, but calling them good value is a little churlish surely
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My experience is different. I bought a Submariner brand new nine years ago, wore it more or less every day, dived on it many, many times and though I didn’t abuse it, it wasn’t mint. The market is such that when I sold it, even at forum prices, it had gone up in value quite a bit.
I find it completely bizarre, but from the seller’s perspective, not unwelcome.
Never sell a Rolex
Ha ha!
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I have been a British motorcycle enthusiast all my life. I entered it as a hobby and paid £100 for a 650cc AJs. The long term problem in keeping these bikes alive was the lack of spare parts. If something went wrong, you were in trouble, you needed to search the parts out and you couldn't do a google in those days.
Slowly the bikes got scrapped and numbers declined. Then supply and demand took over, the price rose when the bikes got rarer but cottage industries saw opportunities and set up workshops to supply the parts, the bikes got restored and became valuable as a result.
Today most British bikes are worth more than ever before and most of them are in good condition because it pays to look after them. Riders and speculators stand side by side in keeping them going.
It was the speculators that saved the classic bike scene but the skint enthusiasts were priced out of the market and to be honest, it as always been thus.
I want Rolex to consistently move up in price, making it more expensive means it will be bought by more affluent chaps who won't cut corners by going to back street repairers etc. That raises the standard and we all benefit.
The hobby is moving, try to embrace it rather than moan about it.
If you talk about what goes into a watch versus what you pay, I think Nomos. I was intrigued by the recent Breguet thread just comparing what you get against the second hand prices.
Cartier, Tag Heuer and Breitling are all brands that I think lost their way a bit over the years but have some really great recent releases and I don't think the second hand prices have caught up yet.
Good value in terms of what you get for the money? Vostok, Steeldive, Scurfa, Orient.......etc. Buy em used and a watch collection doesn't have to cost a fortune.
Personally, I'm not in the running for anything more than a few hundred quid, so way below the league of most of the forum. But as they say, "a pauper is proud of his penny"
15 quid from a charity shop.
Last edited by Tiny; 26th May 2021 at 16:14.
The answer could easily be Steeldive:-)
Probably the same answer I would have given in 1980.
Seiko 5.
Does it all with aplomb. Every collection should have one.
Borrowed photo, but mine is identical:
Erm, I don’t get that at all, sorry. I like watches, I don’t view them as an investment vehicle (that’s a good way to turn a fun hobby into something g far more serious) and I don’t want only affluent people to have access to any mass produced brand so they stay pristine and shiny and belong to the ‘elite few’ in the future. Actually makes me chuckle tbh, it’s so far away from how I perceive this hobby
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I bought a "Ray Mears" Citizen Eco Drive in an H Samuel sale thanks to a PSA on here and apart from the date, thinks it's an incredible watch for what I paid.
Vintage Omegas. As long as the dial is OK (i.e. not re-done or "restored") you can get an amazing watch from a good and respected brand for a few hundred quid. Lovely stainless steel cases, really really great movements, and they wear well. And it's an Omega.
There is none....,maybe Precious metal and complications. Usually go together are better value than before. But the market is mad.
From an investment point of view i think a steel 5167 could be good value at the moment at 38-42k euro as crazy as that price is. The 5711 was introduced in 2006 and discontinued this year. The 5167 was introduced in 2007. There can only be a few years left it it and we have all seen what happens at discontinuation.
I agree with the comment regarding value relating to enjoyment, rather than cost.
As an additional point, An interesting phenomenon from the last few years has been the rise in prices of more affordable brands. I know that the whole industry has pushed up but a Nomos, Sinn, Seiko, Damasko seem to be less accessible than they used to be. Christopher Ward seem to be an upcoming value-orientated brand and I think Longines may yet become swatch’s Tudor (value-orientated entry level luxury) but they seem to be working through a transitional brand identity at the moment.
"You never lose money on a Rolex" and "Never sell a Rolex". Both can't be true. If your Rolex keeps going up in value but you never sell it then it's a purely hypothetical gain, a paper profit. Meanwhile, it's not "paying" you anything: no rent, no interest, no dividends. But it might be costing you (insurance, servicing, stress).
Vintage is the way to go. Buy old, interesting, rare, good-looking watches in the best condition you can find. And wear them. Enjoy them. Use them. They ain't making them any more. Hopefully you'll cash out at what you paid, maybe more. (Maybe less.)
I reckon my modest collection is currently (I stress currently) worth between 50% and 100% more than I paid but 1.) I know my market so 2.) I bought well and 3.) I bought some of them a long time ago, ahead of the curve.
Even if they fell back to half of what I paid I'd have enjoyed them, learned a lot and would write-off any loss as "rent" -- the cost of "hiring" such beautiful, interesting and historic objects.
If I sold them for what I'd paid I'd OK with that. Try doing that with your average car or computer or boxer shorts. And they've brought me a lot more pleasure. Some of them even tell the time quite well.
I'm 50 this year. My generation is probably the last one to have had mechanical wristwatches when young and to aspire to good ones when older. I think demographics are against this hobby in the long term, with the possible exception of 1.) "luxury" brand names (Rolex, PP, maybe Omega et al.) as status symbols and, effectively, veblen jewellery and 2.) nice vintage watches (classic models / references such as Subs and Speedies, historic military issued timepieces, cool / cute / clever / quality watches with great design such as Monaco, Reverso etc)
Look at the market for pocket watches: something that 100 years was a very expensive watch and is still superbly well made can be had very very cheaply. I can't quite see the wristwatch strap going the same way as the pocket watch's chain but equally I can't see many young people considering any watch, even digital, being an essential part of their wardrobe and daily life.
Last edited by Rev-O; 27th May 2021 at 11:33.
I hang my head in shame - I bought an Omega a few weeks ago.
Re value, like many others on this forum I think you have to go a long way to beat the older Bond type Seamasters.
Beautiful quality and all round excellence.
I have the blue and the black one.