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Thread: PSA - Free Money

  1. #151
    Is this misaligned hand issue to do with the quick set hour hand and the modified GMT movement?

  2. #152
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Not my thing but if someone wants to buy it at inflated prices, more power to them. My feeling though is the demand and price are unlikely to sustain in the long run. I could easily be wrong but I donít think so.
    My feeling is that if you have been lucky enough to secure one, you should sell while the market is hot. If you like it enough, you will be able to buy one back in a while at a much lower price.
    Possibly although my understanding is Ming are going to be entering the £20k and above segment soon, so this may have a halo effect on prices also.

  3. #153
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Possibly although my understanding is Ming are going to be entering the £20k and above segment soon, so this may have a halo effect on prices also.
    I would be astounded if that was a success, knowing what they would be up against

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  4. #154
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    I would be astounded if that was a success, knowing what they would be up against

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    Define success though. I'm sure Patek will sleep easy but maybe the market that buys Ressence etc and which is drawn to more flamboyant designs would be up for it. Probably they would be happy selling 200 watches a year in that segment to start off

  5. #155
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Genuine question - has there been any other microbrand that has gone from watches costing a few hundred to watches costing tens of thousands that quickly? If so, did the prices of the old offerings rise significantly too?

    My gut feeling is I don't see anything indicating these are going to the moon. But then thats just a wild guess.

  6. #156
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Define success though. I'm sure Patek will sleep easy but maybe the market that buys Ressence etc and which is drawn to more flamboyant designs would be up for it. Probably they would be happy selling 200 watches a year in that segment to start off
    I donít believe there are shortcuts to success. Disruptive businesses come along, MB&F, FPJ, but they are rather more than an offering at a price point.

    D


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  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Possibly although my understanding is Ming are going to be entering the £20k and above segment soon, so this may have a halo effect on prices also.
    Need to sort out there movement and/ or dodgy hands first!

    🤣

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Possibly although my understanding is Ming are going to be entering the £20k and above segment soon, so this may have a halo effect on prices also.
    Are you serious?
    I would be very, very surprised if they are able to crack that market. Give them credit for the courage to do so and wish them well even if I am not a fan.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Are you serious?
    I would be very, very surprised if they are able to crack that market. Give them credit for the courage to do so and wish them well even if I am not a fan.
    Haven't their prototype/one-offs already been in that area?

    I suppose the fact that the secondary market prices of some of their previous standard releases has multiplied so much, they figure they can consistently release in that price bracket. I imagine they'll do ultra-limited/single piece releases at that price though.

  10. #160
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Massena got in touch, they will arrange for it to go to Schwartz Etienne to sort out, that won't be until 3rd week Aug as Schwartz Etienne are closed for summer hols. It is what it is, Massena have been proactive in trying to sort this.

  11. #161
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    I think my one is ok. What do you guys think. Worst case scenario send back like Ryan's I guess.

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  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by eoghan101 View Post
    I think my one is ok. What do you guys think. Worst case scenario send back like Ryan's I guess.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
    Can't really tell from one photo by the sounds of things - from what Ryan says it appears to be an issue that occasionally appears when using the independent hour hand, so sometimes it'll be OK.

  13. #163
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    The 7 o'clock is the one where I felt there was the worst alignment so I guess it's probably ok. Didn't notice any problem when adjusting the hour hand independently.

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  14. #164
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eoghan101 View Post
    The 7 o'clock is the one where I felt there was the worst alignment so I guess it's probably ok. Didn't notice any problem when adjusting the hour hand independently.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
    Yours seems fine and given the fact that all 3 on Watchuseek have the misalignment issue yours is so rare that you could probably flip it and do a straight swap for a Green 5711 ;)

  15. #165
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    In hindsight a warning should have been the original launch on the Massena site. The black dial clearly has misalignment issues there as the minute hand is at 10 past but the hour hand is dead on 10!

    https://www.massenalab.com/ming/

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    In hindsight a warning should have been the original launch on the Massena site. The black dial clearly has misalignment issues there as the minute hand is at 10 past but the hour hand is dead on 10!

    https://www.massenalab.com/ming/
    So much for the quality control that is done personally at the headquarters in Kuala Lumpur.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Yours seems fine and given the fact that all 3 on Watchuseek have the misalignment issue yours is so rare that you could probably flip it and do a straight swap for a Green 5711 ;)
    I'm already typing up the WTT. Wonder if it's 3/200 with an issue or 3/4. I'm sure they'll be double checking the next batch. Have to say the customer service and delivery etc.. has been excellent particularly the shipping. Got an email yesterday and arrived today.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

  18. #168
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eoghan101 View Post
    I'm already typing up the WTT. Wonder if it's 3/200 with an issue or 3/4. I'm sure they'll be double checking the next batch. Have to say the customer service and delivery etc.. has been excellent particularly the shipping. Got an email yesterday and arrived today.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
    Another one on WUS so ALL 4! The last guy is more au fait with movements and says it is an issue with the movement as Ming have taken a GMT movement, used that to control the hours hand with the issue being that the tolerance on a GMT hand is very different to that of an hour hand and isn't anything that simply realigning the hour hand will sort. This could become a bit of a nightmare for Ming's PR as the soon to be delivered 17.09 Guilloche watches have the same movement and I cannot see how Ming can go ahead and deliver these knowing that the movement may not be fit for purpose. I suspect the Massenas may end up with the buyers offered a refund.

    This could also be the thing that tarnishes Ming irreparably. I hope not and all will depend on how they deal with this.

  19. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Another one on WUS so ALL 4! The last guy is more au fait with movements and says it is an issue with the movement as Ming have taken a GMT movement, used that to control the hours hand with the issue being that the tolerance on a GMT hand is very different to that of an hour hand and isn't anything that simply realigning the hour hand will sort. This could become a bit of a nightmare for Ming's PR as the soon to be delivered 17.09 Guilloche watches have the same movement and I cannot see how Ming can go ahead and deliver these knowing that the movement may not be fit for purpose. I suspect the Massenas may end up with the buyers offered a refund.

    This could also be the thing that tarnishes Ming irreparably. I hope not and all will depend on how they deal with this.
    They may become even more desirable with the wonky hand and badly modded movement if there is a recall and people start receiving refunds.

    Regardless I think Ming reputation will be tarnished.
    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 30th July 2021 at 20:24.

  20. #170
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    They may become even more desirable with the wonky hand and badly modded movement if there is a recall and people start taking refunds.
    Good point. Straight swap with a Bugatti Veyron or it goes back to Ming!

  21. #171
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    Just thinking about this apparent slack in the movement leaving the hour hand misaligned - is it possible that after a period of time the slack gets picked up and the hand is pulled back into line?

    I see this in some watches where if the time is set it takes a period for the slack to be taken up before the hands start moving.

  22. #172
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about this, and sorry for Ming and his brand. It may well be that taking a travellers GMT and morphing the 24h hand into an hour hand may not have been the right solution.

    A jump hour hand on a two hander does seem a bit pointless

    D


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  23. #173
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    They must have know they were shipping these with issues. Were they hoping nobody would point it out?

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    A jump hour hand on a two hander does seem a bit pointless
    I guess the idea is that it makes for seamless changes when passing through timezones, perhaps more useful in the USA than here.

  25. #175
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    The UK one is reserved. Thatís £6077 net of fees.

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    Any the buyer has bailed. Seems to have the hour issue too

    D


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  26. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    Any the buyer has bailed. Seems to have the hour issue too

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    Thankfully he has seen sense!

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    A jump hour hand on a two hander does seem a bit pointless
    I dunno, twice a year it comes in very handy :-)

  28. #178
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    I can only see a three hander jumping hour being any benefit on a Grand Seiko 9F.

    On a mechanical you actually get to reset your +/- seconds whilst changing the time.

  29. #179
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Another one on WUS so ALL 4! The last guy is more au fait with movements and says it is an issue with the movement as Ming have taken a GMT movement, used that to control the hours hand with the issue being that the tolerance on a GMT hand is very different to that of an hour hand and isn't anything that simply realigning the hour hand will sort. This could become a bit of a nightmare for Ming's PR as the soon to be delivered 17.09 Guilloche watches have the same movement and I cannot see how Ming can go ahead and deliver these knowing that the movement may not be fit for purpose. I suspect the Massenas may end up with the buyers offered a refund..
    Can someone with better movement knowledge than me explain this? Seems a bit counterintuitive that an hour hand has less tolerance than a GMT hand, when a GMT hand has 24 stops around a dial normally?

  30. #180
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    I do wish Ming well.

    From his posts on here, he seems considered and intelligent.

    I hesitate to comment but I am now frankly amazed that the secondary market for watches is so ridiculous. The disconnect between value and material / build cost is obvious. Is this disconnect present to the same extent in other luxury goods sectors?

    I popped in to Sevenoaks Sound and Vision the other day and they're experiencing supply pressure for a variety of reasons including the ship stuck at Suez, but prices appear to be static, at least for now.

  31. #181
    I think people here and on WUS have been quite measured in the response to this issue. But Ming is getting quite an evisceration in a few private Facebook groups.
    It is an unfortunate blunder and I hope they deal with it well, so as to minimise the loss of goodwill accumulated from the successful prior releases.

  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    I think people here and on WUS have been quite measured in the response to this issue. But Ming is getting quite an evisceration in a few private Facebook groups.
    It is an unfortunate blunder and I hope they deal with it well, so as to minimise the loss of goodwill accumulated from the successful prior releases.
    Which Facebook groups out of interest.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

  33. #183
    His fancy pictures ainít gonna save him this time. Very embarrassing fail.

  34. #184
    I dont want to see the guy fail its bad this has happened regarding the movement but these things do happen I hope he just holds his hands up and honours returns etc and sorts out the problem. He has a lot of good will out there especially on forums and granted, there will be people who may want to see him fall but maybe this whole thing is a bit of a reset for him to go back to his roots and producing high quality limited bespoke watches that people can enjoy. I may not like some of the watches he produces but that is just my opinion on the watch not the person behind it. Hope this is just a blip on the road and things work out.

  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    I think people here and on WUS have been quite measured in the response to this issue. But Ming is getting quite an evisceration in a few private Facebook groups.
    It is an unfortunate blunder and I hope they deal with it well, so as to minimise the loss of goodwill accumulated from the successful prior releases.
    Of course they are measured.
    If they take out the pitchforks they will not be able to sell on for a huge markup when the issues are resolvedÖ.


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  36. #186
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    I have had a quick play with mine and I can't see too much in terms of misalignment. It's not that easy to tell with the flat bottom of the hands and the sapphire.


  37. #187
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Best to stick with Rolex, Ryan ;)

  38. #188
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    Bang on here, no nonsense at all.

  39. #189
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    Is the hand misalignment a common issue with all watches with a jump hour hand?
    I have 2 watches with this function an Omega SM300MC and a Seiko Sun23
    Both fall out of alignment when you use the quick jump hand, but it rectifies the misalignment as the time progresses (within the hour normally)
    Do these watches do the same?

    The GMT hand on my Fortis also fall out of sync when changed but again falls back in line quickly if left alone.

  40. #190
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    On inspecting the Massena again blimey is it beautiful in the metal. There is a real sense of depth to it, the dial really is sumptuous. I think I'll probably end up keeping it after all (obviously after it has been back to the menders).

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  41. #191
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    Unnaturally large in this photo due to taking it quite close, the watch feels tiny on the wrist.

    I agree that in reply life the dial has a lot of depth, with the indices on the underside of the crystal above the raised outer ring and then the quite deep honeycomb, it feels like there's a lot there without being too busy... I know that makes sense!

  42. #192
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  43. #193
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Does the strap fit as poorly as it seems to do in the pictures in this thread? Looks an mm narrow at the lugs.
    ______

    ​Jim.

  44. #194
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    Does the strap fit as poorly as it seems to do in the pictures in this thread? Looks an mm narrow at the lugs.
    Eh... yeah, it does! Unnoticeable in real life though.

  45. #195
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    Does the strap fit as poorly as it seems to do in the pictures in this thread? Looks an mm narrow at the lugs.
    Not unique to Ming. Went into the Bremont boutique and noticed a lot of their straps to be like this. Put me off, because when I'm spending thousands on a watch, I'd definitely like attention to detail of fitting the correct width strap to match the lugs.

  46. #196
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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  47. #197
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    I've been wearing mine since yesterday morning, it's been bang on. I don't know, wear it for a while and see what happens.

  48. #198
    Why did Ming use this movement in a 2 hand watch?

  49. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Why did Ming use this movement in a 2 hand watch?
    I must admit that I thought it was a great idea and wished more companies would do it, and wrote why it was such a useful idea when the last person queried why it was in a 2 hander.

    And mid way through writing it, I realised it really doesn't make any sense. There's no date, ho hacking seconds hand to worry about, no granular minutes markers and anyway it's a blunt tipped minute hand, so no visible accuracy to disrupt when changing time zones...it really doesn't make sense.

    My guess is it's just a USP (and for good reason!).

  50. #200
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    I must admit that I thought it was a great idea and wished more companies would do it, and wrote why it was such a useful idea when the last person queried why it was in a 2 hander.

    And mid way through writing it, I realised it really doesn't make any sense. There's no date, ho hacking seconds hand to worry about, no granular minutes markers and anyway it's a blunt tipped minute hand, so no visible accuracy to disrupt when changing time zones...it really doesn't make sense.

    My guess is it's just a USP (and for good reason!).
    Good point. Thinking about the functionality of the watch, totally unnecessary.

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