Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by boring_sandwich
If you say so.
Surely on a watch with this design it's never going to look perfectly aligned without indices on the dial.
If you say so.
Agreed.
I found it impossible to tell if PH watch is misaligned, straight on it seemed fine at an angle it looked way out but then the numbers on the Crystal rather than the dial is not going to help.
I feel a bit like I am defending Ming here I guess in a way I am.
My own personal opinions about some of his watches I have made clear previously, some of them looked no different than a £500 Steinhart that being said the buyer struck me as trying to use the internet to get a bit of leverage (just for comparison try that tactic with our host and let us know how you get on or for that matter a watch company on watchuseek)
To me there are a few issues here, we have a 2K watch being sold on the market at up to 6K and to me the company are just feeding the frenzy, sure they are nice watches but it just simply isn’t something I would buy into it just doesn’t sit right with me same goes for Kurono.
Ming gave a perfectly polite response to the buyer and said if he didn’t like it he could have his money back. He also said they would look at it but if they saw no problem he would still just get a refund it was the buyers choice to send it back.
Having his mate on a blog speaking of his “Shock and horror” at the way he was treated is frankly pathetic. I bought a £70 strap from Nomos that was not fit for use and had to pay to send it back, it happens stop acting like this is some great unknown. Likewise he lost a few quid on the currency exchange, again it happens. When I ordered my Dornbluth by the time it was ready the currency had changed so I either paid a bit more or less. My point is trying to make these things out like they are some great unknown to readers who buy watches abroad all the time is ridiculous.
Will Ming just sell his watch on to someone else? Probably, he is hardly going to Chuck it in a skip when he has a massive waiting list.
Ming rode the wave of the whole “Limited edition, make quick cash” watch frenzy and as a consequence there are plenty of people out there waiting to have a pop at him who now have the opportunity.
Personally I think it’s just a big fuss about nothing.
Ignoring the rhetoric in the article and reading only the discourse between Ming and the buyer, I still believe that they were trying to do their best for the customer. At no point did the customer ask for the watch to be returned instead of a refund; the buyer called the hands an eyesore, it’s not unreasonable to assume that he didn’t want to keep it.
Ming felt there was nothing that they could do to improve the hands to the buyer’s satisfaction and so refunded him. There’s no evidence to support the belief that, had the buyer requested it, the watch wouldn’t have been returned to him.
I've been trying and failing for the best part of half an hour to upload another GIF to Imgur, these stills will have to do.
I recorded a short video at midday, these stills show the head-on shot and two from side angles. If you still can't see how the lack of indices on the dial with the numbers printed on the underside of the crystal are affecting perception or perspective then I simply can't help you see it any more. There is no misalignment issue with this watch, I've been wearing it for three full days now, it hasn't missed a beat, there have been no issues with the hour hand losing synch.
No idea. I've only seen it in this thread.
That’s the limitations of only being party to one side of the argument, I read it completely different to you but I presume the article was designed so.
I have no dog in the fight, they are not the sort of watch I would buy.
I do wish Ming and his business well. It’s great to see another small volume / micro brand being innovative instead of bring out out the usual rehashes with SII movements. I do think the customer in question was being fussy and probably had expectations nobody could meet but at no point does the correspondence say a return was offered. (He said - she said) only the opposite.
We could go around in circles all day, only Ming can sort the QC issues on his latest watch and how he goes about this will have a big impact on his future business. I hope it works out well for everyone involved and everyone ends up happy.
Confused by your comment - are you suggesting a £20k model is too good or too rich for me or something? I’ll pass on the brand completely thanks. I have two grails I would like to buy and both are around 20k but I fail to see the relevance of your comment?
A summary of the customer who got refunded instead of his watch being sent back and then having his order cancelled.
https://screwdowncrown.wordpress.com...tomer-service/
I too have no dog in this fight and agree that the customer didn’t help himself.
I do think Ming’s customer service is pretty normal; they couldn’t meet the buyers expectation so refunded him. Whilst there’s nothing in the correspondence that says they would send the watch back, there’s nothing saying that they wouldn’t. Neither is there anything saying that the buyer asked for the watch to be returned.
No, not at all
I was talking about their aspirations for a 20,000 model.
I guess the humour didn’t come through.
Wow, what pathetic customer service (no option refund, and black listing the customer for no good reason). Maybe not unexpected for a watch that looks like it came from a Christmas cracker. Doubt this will do Ming any favours. That £200k watch is surely worth a bit less now ...
This isn't as bad as Ryan's, but still doesn't look perfect. Ryan's was obvious, Ming can't have done any QC checks.
There’s nothing in that message saying that they wouldn’t send the watch back if requested.
Again, they are offering a solution to a customer who is dissatisfied with the watch he’s bought even though it meets the manufacturer specification.
Funny how he kept it sealed in the sleeve though eh?
And despite that sore experience he decided to buy another one…
Probably someone who was looking to flip these for a profit….
I am actually glad they refunded him and banned him.
At least then there was a chance for the watch to go to someone who would wear it rather than contribute to this speculation madness we have been witnessing for years…
Food for thought
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Last edited by Ar.parask; 5th August 2021 at 15:00.
Yeah it came across as a dig tbh. Thanks for clarifying
Last edited by RustyBin5; 5th August 2021 at 17:49.
Are you guys winding him up?
I don't see any misalignment on his watch.
Genuinely not trying to wind anyone up.Are you guys winding him up?
I don't see any misalignment on his watch.
If PH is happy with his watch, that’s all that matters.
It’s got bugger all to do with anyone else, I were just adding in my 2p like everyone else
Maybe it's like the dress of different colours.Are you guys winding him up?
I don't see any misalignment on his watch.
Some see alignment, some don't
I thought the 8 o'clock one looked way off and couldn't see how parallax could make such a different but the others are clearly fine.
It's a great looking watch.
This refund / return is a whole load of nonsense. They were clear in what would happen and he could have asked for it to be returned if he wanted that to happen.
Storm in a teacup but something microbrand that heavily court social media to drive sales really need to consider. The hype can go both ways.
What Ming should have done is to include offering to inspect it, include a report, and return it.
The "if you have a problem with it you're going to forfeit the right to ownership" is madness.
Stop that common sense talk please, this is the internet after all.
I agree with this.
I can sympathize with both sides but considering a brand which is very much driven by online and social media that seemed a poorly considered response which could have done far more damage than the guys Instagram posts.
There was an opportunity there to win over a slightly disappointed customer, their response came across as somewhat heavy handed especially with the lifetime ban. A polite response upon inspecting the watch(following the explanation) offering that it can either be returned or refunded would have at least put some closure on things, with the customer left to make his choice.
I don't see where anything along those lines was actually said. Folk are just getting angry about an imagined scenario.
Seems to me that unless there's more messages we're not seeing, the customer got exactly what they wanted - a refund. If you receive an email saying something along the lines of 'we'll have a look and if there's nothing we can do we'll send you a full refund' and on that basis you choose to send the watch in, then you've opted in for a refund. If the customer said 'no thanks have a look but if you can't change it send me the watch back' that's a different scenario, but I don't see anything remotely like that.
Incidentally for any normal product Ming's response would be considered excellent - the customer has described it as an eye-sore so of course he should get his money back. The only reason people are irate is because it's a flipable watch that goes over RRP... cry me a river!
As for the ban, I'm in two minds. On the one hand I think they're absolutely entitled to withhold custom for someone who's actively gone out of their way to rubbish the brand and post direct messages etc. On the other hand, I don't think they should have sent the patronising message outlining their grievances, that bit was weak and ill-considered.
Just my 2 cents.
At last, a voice of reason!
Nail on head. Of course the guy didn't want a refund. That cost him a couple grand in profit! He no doubt wanted the lume sorted so he could shift the watch on with no come back from the buyer!
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BIG Ming Watch Problem !?!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OcAeYCemExw&t=1189s
By clicking on that did I just give revenue to someone who is basically regurgitating exactly what’s on this thread for 20 odd minutes while sat in front of some weird looking 1970s curtains?
Those glasses are offensive. I didn't last 20 seconds.
I'm always intrigued by vloggers like this guy and I'm not entirely sure how funding works. If I clicked that link and realised it was a load of rubbish and closed it, does that still generate revenue for him? Does his channel earn much? Why do nearly all of them string out what could be said in 2 minutes into a 20 minute ramble?
Good question. In a related issue are you aware that you can download apps such as 'Vanced Kit' and 'Pure Tuber' to watch You Tube videos that are stripped of adverts and effectively de-monitised so that the uploader doesn't profit from you watching the video. It's the only way to watch Archie Luxury content nowadays.
He's a watch dealer. Business partner of the more well known 'Federico Talks Watches' at Delray Watch.
As for why folk stretch out the videos, two reasons.
(1) The YT algorithm rewards watch time, so longer videos are more likely to be recommended
(2) The 10 minute mark in particular has significance, as at 10 minutes YouTube enabled mid-roll advertisements
Archie is way ahead of you. No app can block the advertising fridge
On a personal note though, it seems fair to me that if someone is producing content I want to watch then there's no harm in them making a few quid out of it.
Agreed entirely.Archie is way ahead of you. No app can block the advertising fridge
On a personal note though, it seems fair to me that if someone is producing content I want to watch then there's no harm in them making a few quid out of it.
It's also worth noting that it's not going to be a few quid from single viewers - it's fractions of pennies, depending on their interactions with the video.
Dammit I had to click on it to see the curtains and glasses. 10 seconds were enough for that.
John P actually gave Ming a good excuse by saying that if you mingle in the specialist (re: microbrand) environment you should expect things to be querky sometimes.
I agree with you and I watch everything else via You Tube with ads enabled etc. More than happy to contribute views etc to quality channels such as Up Tick Watch Reviews and many others but I make an exception for Archie.Archie is way ahead of you. No app can block the advertising fridge
On a personal note though, it seems fair to me that if someone is producing content I want to watch then there's no harm in them making a few quid out of it.
I subscribe to Youtube Premium which for a small fee per month gives ad-free access. I have an autistic son and the adverts starting mid-video are frequently a trigger for unhappiness so this is money well spent!
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So, how much free money people making on these watches?
None! I like having something genuinely rare even if the current press isn't exactly glowing.
Not you, ofcourse. Those who bought it to flip. Not necessarily people here.
Looking at chrono24 and eBay around 4k profit.
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That’s how much they are selling for is anyone buying?
Still a beautiful looking watch just a shame about all the nonsense that surrounds it.
Last edited by robert75; 6th August 2021 at 15:20.
I'm not sure. There were a couple on c24 that from the US that were reserved at £6k mark. Can't see any completed on eBay.
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I think those people are struggling to be honest. There was a honey variant on ebay in the UK for £10k, quickly dropped to £7k where it remains. I think some speculators are getting a dose of reality with the issues some of the movements are having.
"To resolve please stop being disappointed."
eeeeee ????
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