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Thread: A sobering number

  1. #1

    A sobering number

    I just did a little tot up & the total value of watches I currently own (26) + the value of watches I've sold (137) since 2005 = £328,000

    I'm sure it's much larger than that for some here.
    Last edited by andy tims; 14th May 2021 at 07:06.
    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DA38 or DC80 Green - not the black versions. Bell & Ross BR03-92 Nightlum

  2. #2
    Sobering indeed that figure is more than my house is worth

  3. #3
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    I think I'm around £750k so I wouldn't worry too much

  4. #4
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Try doing the same thing with houses you own or owned. Now that really is a sobering value, particularly if youíve moved around a bit!

  5. #5
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    Coke and hookers would be 'cheaper'.

    I guess the really sobering number is how much value has been 'lost' in the churn /flipping/ depreciation cf any rise in the price of the assets 'collected' and retained.

  6. #6
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Coke and hookers would be 'cheaper'.

    I guess the really sobering number is how much value has been 'lost' in the churn /flipping/ depreciation cf any rise in the price of the assets 'collected' and retained.
    I'm lucky in that the value of a couple of Pateks and one or two vintage Rolexes appreciated over the time I had them. The biggest gain was a watch both bought and sold outside of TZ, and I'd be stuffed otherwise.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post

    I guess the really sobering number is how much value has been 'lost' in the churn /flipping/ depreciation cf any rise in the price of the assets 'collected' and retained.
    That's one not to be divulged.

    SWMBO might one day join TZ just to check up on me.
    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DA38 or DC80 Green - not the black versions. Bell & Ross BR03-92 Nightlum

  8. #8
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    I think my Ďsobering numberí is firmly in the ĎI donít want to knowí category!

  9. #9
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    I went through a period where I Ďchurnedí about 70k worth of watches in a year, every year, simply buying and selling. I made a tiny loss so saw the hobby as relatively cheap...compared with stuff like cars. Later, I bailed-out and now am far more cautious. I donít trade at all.
    The daft thing is I sold too early, stuff like the 5711 . I could have made a handsome profit. But never mind, Iím happier just coasting along.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    If I tot up the value of watches bought and sold it is easily in 6 figures, but a lot of that is the same money. I think in reality I have never had more than £20k tied up in watches. Even if I look at e-bay and the volume and amount related to those transactions you think where is all that money now, but it was never there in the first place. Use the same £10k to buy and sell 10 watches and on paper you have bought a £100k worth of watches.

  11. #11
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    I don't see how adding the value of your collection plus the watches you've sold gives any meaningful figure other than creating as large a number related to your watches as you can generate? Surely you could buy a £1000 watch, sell it and buy another ten times over and according to that sum you've generated a figure of £10,000 from only ever having £1000 and not actually making any loss?

  12. #12
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I keep a spreadsheet on my current collection, not the ones that have gone, that would be depressing.
    i have probably 2 years worth of mortgage repayments in value, I told the wife when the mortgage gets to that point ( quite a way away ) I will sell up and pay it off.

    I bet i don't
    Cheers..
    Jase

  13. #13
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    If buying and selling watches was putting me into a negative bank balance situation I would change my MO immediately.

    If you have a hobby you should have the brains to enjoy it whilst not loosing on it, it is called expertise.

    With watches it is dead easy, in the current market you only buy Rolex or Patek and you never sell. Buy them, keep them, enjoy them and finally sell them late in life or give them away to your kids.

    I enjoy my watches and I have done well financially, how can you better that.

  14. #14
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Try doing the same thing with houses you own or owned. Now that really is a sobering value, particularly if youíve moved around a bit!
    My 2bed terrace house in Brixton, London.
    I bought in 1986 two years after the last riots, it was on the front line. 66 Effra Parade. I paid £46k for it. Rocketing to £120k in 88 just before the Crash. I finally sold it in 1989 for £90k a good profit. Itís now estimated at £800k plus. If only......... thatís just one house, out of many.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I don't see how adding the value of your collection plus the watches you've sold gives any meaningful figure other than creating as large a number related to your watches as you can generate? Surely you could buy a £1000 watch, sell it and buy another ten times over and according to that sum you've generated a figure of £10,000 from only ever having £1000 and not actually making any loss?
    Well, this scenario risks 10k overall....because each transaction could end in a loss. You would then need to replace the cash to keep trading.
    The assumption these days is for a steadily rising market virtually guaranteed to return a profit. So the whole process is close to risk free. Will this process continue.....we can’t know.
    For me, the rigid link between the hobby and money has been off-putting. It can read like a hobby of financial trading.
    Last edited by paskinner; 14th May 2021 at 09:45.

  16. #16
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshiremadmick View Post
    My 2bed terrace house in Brixton, London.
    I bought in 1986 two years after the last riots, it was on the front line. 66 Effra Parade. I paid £46k for it. Rocketing to £120k in 88 just before the Crash. I finally sold it in 1989 for £90k a good profit. Itís now estimated at £800k plus. If only......... thatís just one house, out of many.


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    That's a coincidence...until a couple of years ago, my brother used to live on Effra Parade.

  17. #17
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    If buying and selling watches was putting me into a negative bank balance situation I would change my MO immediately.

    If you have a hobby you should have the brains to enjoy it whilst not loosing on it, it is called expertise.

    With watches it is dead easy, in the current market you only buy Rolex or Patek and you never sell. Buy them, keep them, enjoy them and finally sell them late in life or give them away to your kids.

    I enjoy my watches and I have done well financially, how can you better that.
    Thatís not really a hobby then is it, limiting yourself to two brands purely on the residual value.

    And you havenít done anything well financially until you sell.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Thatís not really a hobby then is it, limiting yourself to two brands purely on the residual value.

    And you havenít done anything well financially until you sell.
    Indeed. There's many great watches out there that don't have Rolex or Patek on the dial. As for most hobbies not costing you money, I seriously doubt that. Music lessons cost money, golf club membership costs money etc etc.

    Without wishing to sound preachy there is something to be said for buying within your means but that's not the same as expecting it to appreciate in value.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    Indeed. There's many great watches out there that don't have Rolex or Patek on the dial. As for most hobbies not costing you money, I seriously doubt that. Music lessons cost money, golf club membership costs money etc etc.

    Without wishing to sound preachy there is something to be said for buying within your means but that's not the same as expecting it to appreciate in value.
    One person in particular does like to sound preachy, ad infinitum it seems

    My wife teaches piano so I'm glad some people are willing to invest in hobbies.

  20. #20
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    I’m not sure a hobby can require us to never lose money. After all, many things cost us money....going on holiday, going to the cinema, to the pub....on and on. If you are enjoying yourself, why not spend. Isn’t that what part of money is for? And if you lose money on a watch, so what? Who cares....
    Every time you drink a pint of beer you ‘lose money’.
    Last edited by paskinner; 14th May 2021 at 11:03.

  21. #21
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    Exactly, I wouldnít call only buying Rolex or Patek a hobby, more an investment vehicle. If thatís your hobby though, then fair enough I suppose.

    Iíve purchased and sold a couple of hundred watches of varying values over a few decades, the hobby for me is in buying interesting watches, enjoying them, and selling them when Iím done to buy new ones.

    Itís a hobby, and like all my other hobbies it costs money. Itís not about breaking the bank, or not having money for food on the table, I can honestly say I donít think Iíve made any money on anything Iíve sold, so cumulatively it must have cost a fair bit, but Iíve enjoyed them so money well spent IMO.
    Last edited by Tooks; 14th May 2021 at 12:13.

  22. #22
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    That's a coincidence...until a couple of years ago, my brother used to live on Effra Parade.
    I sold my house to Tom Carver who was a then BBC reporter, he paid £90k and sold it For £70+?
    That was a slump.
    We had a school opposite, thatís now gone and 100ís of flats.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy tims View Post
    I just did a little tot up & the total value of watches I currently own (26) + the value of watches I've sold (137) since 2005 = £328,000

    I'm sure it's much larger than that for some here.
    That confirms my status as a complete amateur!!!

  24. #24
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Watch Collecting Survey:


    Q1. Can you afford it?

    Yes = it's a hobby, enjoy it, don't worry.

    No = it's an addiction, get help, get out.


    ___________________________________
    end of questions



    That's it, anything else is pointless self-flagellation that sucks the joy from life

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I'm lucky in that the value of a couple of Pateks and one or two vintage Rolexes appreciated over the time I had them. The biggest gain was a watch both bought and sold outside of TZ, and I'd be stuffed otherwise.
    Felicidades.

    I can still see myself probably buying the right Rolex...despite all their nonsense but only if they've got it in the shop on the day I go in, there's no shenanigans/ extras required of me, just the parting with the cash. Then done.
    I'm also a total amateur/dilettante.

    Never sell a house, or rather buy and hold until you've at least a 'better' proposition on the horizon, seems another sound takeaway.

  26. #26
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshiremadmick View Post
    We had a school opposite, thatís now gone and 100ís of flats.


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    Yes, he lived in one of those flats...I presume where the school used to be.

  27. #27
    Craftsman Chewitt13's Avatar
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    I've got a spreadsheet, I've bought and sold 39 watches in the last 7 years, I've lost roughly 3k in total and spent £435 on postage

    I don't think it's even 3k as I still have a few sports Rolex in the collection for heavy lifting

    What my spreadsheet does show....never buy a bremont or zenith unless you plan to keep them for life......

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Watch Collecting Survey:


    Q1. Can you afford it?

    Yes = it's a hobby, enjoy it, don't worry.

    No = it's an addiction, get help, get out.


    ___________________________________
    end of questions



    That's it, anything else is pointless self-flagellation that sucks the joy from life
    I like that.

    I'd never even buy on interest free credit personally as that normally means a higher purchase price, but I rarely buy new anyway.
    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DA38 or DC80 Green - not the black versions. Bell & Ross BR03-92 Nightlum

  29. #29
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    I would only be a very small fraction of that.

    Pretty sure many of you chaps are on £60K Plus a year and dont miss the money though or have your life impacted by it.

  30. #30
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Cheers,
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    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenikjones View Post
    One person in particular does like to sound preachy, ad infinitum it seems

    My wife teaches piano so I'm glad some people are willing to invest in hobbies.
    If someone wants to spend a fortune on a hobby, then that is fine as it's their money. They can spend it on collecting dog turds if they want.

    All I do is just explain that selling a watch that you like and taking a financial hit on it just to buy a another watch that you will sell again and so on is not exactly a sensible thing to do.

    Most of the people who do it will accept that it not the most sensible thing they have done. I am merely confirming their view.

  32. #32
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    A more telling figure would be the total value of all the watches owned at this time. I'm sure many wouldn't want to contribute to such a thread or dream of telling their other half that figure.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    A more telling figure would be the total value of all the watches owned at this time. I'm sure many wouldn't want to contribute to such a thread or dream of telling their other half that figure.
    When I tell the wife about how much the value of Rolex has escalated, she wants me to buy more. I get nagged for not buying whereas most men probably get nagged for buying.

  34. #34
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    If someone wants to spend a fortune on a hobby, then that is fine as it's their money. They can spend it on collecting dog turds if they want.

    All I do is just explain that selling a watch that you like and taking a financial hit on it just to buy a another watch that you will sell again and so on is not exactly a sensible thing to do.

    Most of the people who do it will accept that it not the most sensible thing they have done. I am merely confirming their view.

    Its perfectly sensible Mick, we get to enjoy the variety and diversity and joy of owning a multitude of styles and brands. It must be very boring to just focus on the residuals that is so limiting in your choice.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Its perfectly sensible Mick, we get to enjoy the variety and diversity and joy of owning a multitude of styles and brands. It must be very boring to just focus on the residuals that is so limiting in your choice.
    You are just making assumptions about my motivations.

    I bought an Omega which I wore daily (1986 - 2014) and was perfectly happy with it. I always fancied a Rolex but never bought one because of my job. Any Purchasing Manager who wears a Rolex will attract the wrong type of attention. I bought my first Rolex which was an Explorer expecting to take a hit and I was OK with that.

    However as a retiree I had time on my hands and became interested in the history of Rolex and the fact that they are virtually bombproof and built like a tractor. I then treated myself to a Explorer Frecionee and found that I really loved it and I still do. As time progressed I bought another 3 of the things and I just cannot see any reason to sell them off, why would I want to. I would rather buy 3 Rolex than 1 Patek, even though the Patek is probably the better investment. I like Rolex, I just don't like any other brand as much. If that is a weakness or a crime then I willingly plead guilty.

  36. #36
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy tims View Post
    ... I'd never even buy on interest free credit personally as that normally means a higher purchase price ...
    100% with you on this. I'm happy to save a little, and happy to sell a few things, but if I cannot ultimately afford a thing, I do without. Having been sucked into the madness of credit-cards and bank loans several decades ago, the only thing I borrow money for now is the mortgage.

  37. #37
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    I admire your single mindedness Mick.

    But be honest, havenít you always secretly wanted to own a Helvetia, even for a few weeks?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I admire your single mindedness Mick.

    But be honest, havenít you always secretly wanted to own a Helvetia, even for a few weeks?
    Nope.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    You are just making assumptions about my motivations.

    I bought an Omega which I wore daily (1986 - 2014) and was perfectly happy with it. I always fancied a Rolex but never bought one because of my job. Any Purchasing Manager who wears a Rolex will attract the wrong type of attention. I bought my first Rolex which was an Explorer expecting to take a hit and I was OK with that.

    However as a retiree I had time on my hands and became interested in the history of Rolex and the fact that they are virtually bombproof and built like a tractor. I then treated myself to a Explorer Frecionee and found that I really loved it and I still do. As time progressed I bought another 3 of the things and I just cannot see any reason to sell them off, why would I want to. I would rather buy 3 Rolex than 1 Patek, even though the Patek is probably the better investment. I like Rolex, I just don't like any other brand as much. If that is a weakness or a crime then I willingly plead guilty.
    All of which is great, and Iím pleased youíre happy.

    However, other people enjoy the watch hobby differently, thereís no right, wrong, stupid or sensible way to enjoy it really, just your own way.

  40. #40
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    Well, this scenario risks 10k overall....because each transaction could end in a loss. You would then need to replace the cash to keep trading.
    The assumption these days is for a steadily rising market virtually guaranteed to return a profit. So the whole process is close to risk free. Will this process continue.....we can’t know.
    For me, the rigid link between the hobby and money has been off-putting. It can read like a hobby of financial trading.
    Nope. You only risk what's exposed, and at no point was 10k exposed in that scenario.

  41. #41
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    When I was doing the PSAs a few years ago, I arranged over £320k in 1 month through the till of the AD in Omega and Breitlings!

    Personal transactions I shudder to think but I'm sure is in the 7 figures and the losses I'd imagine in the high 5 figures. That's nothing compared to anyone who is into A Boats, B Planes or C Divorces.

  42. #42
    Craftsman Idontgram's Avatar
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    A sobering number

    Taking this slightly off rails but the house price discussion is an interesting one.

    People always seem to fixate on how much houses increase in value, but a rising tide raises all ships. If you wanted to buy a more expensive house than the one you own, then that will be more expensive too. In fact, because the rise is generally proportional, you will be more out of pocket as a result of a growing market. Personally, unless I was planning on downsizing or passing the house on to my children, I would much rather the market contracted over time (I might lose money on the one I own but at least Iíve paid more of the mortgage and could now afford a more expensive home). I guess itís just a reflection of where one is in life.

    As for watches, I spend a very small proportion of my income on them and donít worry about the loss as it was never a lot of money to start with. Most of the (Edit: non-watch)things I purchase I tend not to sell afterwards, so I see any and all return on watch money as a bonus. Sure, I could Ďspend more wiselyí, but then again, I could have bought a more sensible house / car / clothes and I am happier losing a couple of hundred quid on a few seikos / Damasko, which I treat as consumables, rather than concerning myself over what my investment piece is worth now.
    Last edited by Idontgram; 14th May 2021 at 15:58.

  43. #43
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    As regards spending money on watches: I have a separate dedicated account ring fenced for watch purchases - never affecting day to day accounts or spend. Before I retired from paid employment, I had a reasonable disposable income so put money into the account. These days watch purchases have to be self funding.

    The throughput is immaterial, though the wife tries to tie me to two or three trades per year - it can be more like five / six per year. I win some / lose some with aim to nett zero over the year.

    This hobby has allowed me to own some wonderful pieces from a variety of manufactures. Maybe it occupies too much time but as scaled it does no harm financially or socially. I have gained some physical friends around the country and abroad and without exception everyone I have met in person have been gentlemanly in the best possible sense.

    I could dig out my spreadsheet and tally up how much I have spent over the last few years but I can’t see that is relevant.

    Martyn
    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 14th May 2021 at 16:30.

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  44. #44
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    A more telling figure would be the total value of all the watches owned at this time. I'm sure many wouldn't want to contribute to such a thread or dream of telling their other half that figure.
    My wife knows this exactly. You are correct - I would not contribute that to such a thread. But I am sure anyone could easily work it out from any recent SOTC threads if they wanted.

    It is quite a sobering number (but nowhere near the value of a house).

    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly soĒ. HHGTTG


  45. #45
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Yes, he lived in one of those flats...I presume where the school used to be.
    My house was roughly in the middle of the Terrace and was the only Yellow bricked house all the others either side were red bricked or rendered. In the middle of the road in a culvert. The river Effra flows down it, the parade got itís name because the Victorians used to parade up and down the banks of the river Effra. Hence Effra Parade. My house was built for/by the man who had the street built.
    He wore a Fez apparently and was called ďStreekĒ or something like that.


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  46. #46
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    I bought my partner an Oyster Perpetual 34mm with olive green dial, she always likes olive green. Anyway, by pure luck, that humble OP, ladies version, now several years old and discontinued, has shot up in resale value. When I told her the watch was now worth a lot more , she grinned; she Ďgets ití and enjoys the whole situation.
    And, sensible woman, she will never sell.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    When I was doing the PSAs a few years ago, I arranged over £320k in 1 month through the till of the AD in Omega and Breitlings!

    Personal transactions I shudder to think but I'm sure is in the 7 figures and the losses I'd imagine in the high 5 figures. That's nothing compared to anyone who is into A Boats, B Planes or C Divorces.
    Yes, I remember the day I divorced my pilot wife after an awful row we had on the deck of our boat.
    Although, Iíd still rather that than have to maintain your Range Rover 😂

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    That's nothing compared to anyone who is into A Boats, B Planes or C Divorces.
    Very true...and makes me feel better about all my purchases!

  49. #49
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    I always knew I was a lightweight on here, but my figure is about a tenth of the OP's.

    I certainly don't want to think of the 'cost', although I do have a number of watches which have appreciated (along with the dozens that haven't )

    When someone shows a 5 figure watch I always think "I'd never spend that much", but my current watches have cost me easily that.

    That said, I think I'm happier with lots of lesser watches than one or two really expensive ones.

    M

    Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using Tapatalk
    Last edited by snowman; 15th May 2021 at 13:18.
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

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