Reply With QuoteTalk to the police,
I'll do my best to cut a long story short.
Behind my back my sister pressured my Mum (vulnerable with COPD) to spend Xmas with them, - Mum catches Covid, - I went to look after my Mum, - we nearly lost her, - hospital said she wouldn't make it past 4 days. 4.5 weeks later Mum is out of hospital, and I stayed with my Mum for circa three months to care for her and help her recovery.
I have never got on with my sister, and haven't spoke to her for last twelve years, however, this ordeal has changed my perspective and I sent her a heartfelt olive branch, to which my sister ignored. I then find out that my sister has been circulating lies around the family about me, saying that I am a thug, that i was violent towards her when we were younger, and that I am very aggressive to Mum.
Over the three months I stayed with Mum, I did a lot for her; personal care, rubbing Vicks on her back at 4 in the morning, cooked, cleaned, fetched, found, helped with physio, breathing, anxiety, played games, you name it. It was quality time with Mum. Despite being stressful at times, we got on very well - we're both easy going. After this time, Mum was doing amazing, - fully independent. So I decide to go home and continue with my own life. Soon after this, my sister made many accusations about me to various family members that I left her with no food, house was filthy, and many other lies surmounting to the fact that I mistreated Mum.
Later on, my Dad (who's in Italy) informed me that my sister told him that I attempted to strangle my Mum. My sister has always been a toxic bully, but this was "next level". I encouraged my Mum & Dad (divorced) to have a conversation as my Mum couldn't believe sister would say this, - fortunately my sister confirmed this accusation in writing via text message (as they got cut off during a heated conversation) as I am not sure even my Mum would have believed it (or didn't want to) and may have said that my Dad made it up. Fortunately most of the family that I have spoke to can see my sister for what she is, however, she has managed to turn one Aunt and cousin against me (so far they have refused to have a conversation with me). (My Mum confronted my sister with this also, and my sister denied even saying it to my Dad - despite the written confirmation!?!)
Now the latest; I spent bank holiday monday at Mum's, we had a lovely day, played Scattegories, caught up, had a lovely dinner etc. The only other person who knew I was visiting Mum that day was my sister. Suddenly the Police knock on the door, Mum answers, they straight away confirm that I am her son and usher Mum in a seperate room asking if she's okay, if she feels threatened, confirmed that I have been caring for Mum recently, and assure Mum that if she ever feels threatened etc that she can call the Police anytime. Both Police seem happy and leave.
We don't know for sure, but it seems obvious that my sister has called the Police on me.
I have never experienced anything like this before, - and obviously I am concerned for the future, - as this does not look like it's going to stop. Thankfully my Mum is compas mentes (I fear for the future when my Mum isn't able to rebute these accusations?!).
So I am asking for advice, - what shall I do? If anything? My first thought is to contact the Police myself now, and tell them what's been going on. Surely this must be slander/harrassment. I just want to protect myself and get on with my life. Obviously this isn't doing Mum any good either.
Thanks for reading!
Last edited by PJdB; 6th May 2021 at 13:14.
Talk to the police,
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
This, get it on record and explain the situation. They will have seen it all before.Originally Posted by number2
Maybe worth getting a bit of legal advice too ...
Awful situation but families can be toxic.
This, legally what is occurring would be considered harassment and render a person liable for prosecution.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
No experience with anything like this but to me it does sound serious enough at this stage that you should involve the police and a solicitor. Very sorry to hear.
Sorry to hear this, you can choose your friends but not your family!
I would talk to the police, there may be other accusations against you that you are not aware of. You approaching them may help in any further interaction
For the foreseeable future I would visit your mother with a witness in tow, can your partner or a close family friend visit with you?
You need to prove their your sisters accusations are lies and the easiest way to do this is to have a witness.
I presume your mother has had words with your sister? Surely she cannot be happy with the muck that your sister is spreading around?
"innocence cries out to be heard."
I'd say "be noisy", and good luck. Have at it.
Most definitely, you can't go wrong with it.
I had accusations levelled at me a few years ago. Once the police had worked it all out, she was gone and I've had peace ever since.
Yes to the above and I would add contact with Social Services. If your mum becomes 'vulnerable' then it is they, rather than the Police, who will deal with any situation. Establishing your bona fides in their records might pre-empt some of the hassle others may cause.
It sounds as though, at the moment, your sister is the one who 'needs help'. If her actions are becoming increasingly irrational then something is amiss. Setting up a confrontation will not improve matters and so I couch any appeal for assistance in terms of seeking reconciliation and mutual understanding, in the hope that this may avoid friends and relatives taking up entrenched opinions / positions and so making the division permanent...to the benefit of no-one.
Thank you everyone, - really appreicate your time and advice.
Police. Solicitor. Social Services.
Presumably I'll should use 111 to contact the Police in the first instance?
Sorry - I'm not sure I have understood this - 'couch' - you mean avoid trying to seek reconciliation at this point?
No, not at all. I should have typed "I would couch" (would got lost in my editing) meaning (lexico verb) when talking to others you should avoid making it seem that you wish to overcome your sister. Rather you should seek their help and insight to assist you to understand your sister's position, so aiding a resolution in the best interests of your mum. That is, make it about getting the best for your mum rather than about you and your sister.
I'm pretty sure that you'd do that anyway but I thought I would point out something that, IMO, you should avoid.
Sounds like a classic smearing campaign by someone with Narcissistic Personality disorder, research this disorder and see if it sounds like your Sister, if so there is your answer to the reasons for her behaviour.
Lawyer first. Don’t talk to the police unless your lawyer tells you to.
Good grief - what a shocking situation OP, and I really feel for you.
Dealing with lots of people, often under challenging circumstances on a frequent basis I would concur with the advice above, and add do not attempt to have a discussion or confrontation with your sister, and probably try and avoid all further communication now other than through legal channels.
People who behave like that cannot be reasoned with, and will try and turn anything to their advantage. Given that you know her to be a liar, and prepared to lie about very serious matters, she cannot be trusted at all under any circumstances. She will not become "reasonable" or fair. She may well have a personality disorder or mental health issues - as others have suggested.
Good luck and remember that your priority is now you, and your mum.
So clever my foot fell off.
This is where my thoughts lay too. The sister needs help to overcome a potential mental illness but she also needs a shot across the bow to stop her in her tracks and limit how she escalates. Bitter experience and too long reading about how family members carry out acts of aggression shows that things do escalate.
Best of luck OP. I’m sorry you and your mum are going through this.
I would personally speak to the police
They may appreciate it as she could be done for wasting police time if it was proven her behind for example the recent visit
Solicitor costs money - a simple warning to her from plod should do the trick
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Bingo.
It's one thing falling into a relationship with this destructive illness/type of person, but having it in your family is borderline tragic.
While you don't want your parents being caught in the middle, OP has unfortunately reached the stage where he's being targeted, and needs to act.
OP:
See a solicitor. Have them interface with the police, or at least advise you on the process. God forbid it gets to the stage where you require a restraining order, these first steps will set a precedent.
You've done your bit trying to reconcile your differences, and her response has been to try and ruin your good standing within the family. Steer clear.
... all of the above regarding the lawyer and the police and have someone 'neutral' go over to your moms's house and let her tell -in her words, without your presence- how you've taken care of her during the last months. Put this on record. A GP or a pastor would be great. But only after you've spoken with your lawyer.
M
Not much help I'm afraid, but reminds of an African proverb I read once - 'choose your friends well, because your mother's womb will provide your enemies'.
This.
Right now.
You have no idea what's coming your way next. Just be open and explain the position and that you're concerned what might happen.
Once you've done this, by all means consult a lawyer but my feeling is it won't make a bit of difference. Letters are likely to be ignored.
Sometime useful to attempt to understand the motives of the likes of your sister.
Is she ultimately posturing to get you cut out of any future inheritance?
I also feel that a solicitor's letter would be ignored. However, are the suggestions to speak to a solicitor first to protect *me* (from the Police)?
I really like the idea of a GP/pastor going to visit my Mum - is this something that they would be happy doing if I simply requested it?
Just additional info for those interested in her possible motives.
My sister is 5 years older than me, and has tried to turn my Mum & Dad against me most of her life. I think she was hugely jealous of having to share her Mum & Dad when I turned up, and it seems she has been jealous and bitter every since. To be honest, I often used to 'react' to the drama she would create, - I don't do that anymore. My sister's husband is also a very strange character (in mine, and the opinion of everyone in the family that I have spoke to - no-one knows him at all, despite him being in the family for 30 years, - he hardly says a word to anyone. He had a bad relationship with his own Mum & Dad) - both my sister and her husband are VERY materialistic.
When my Mum was in hospital fighting for her life, my sister pressured her to sell her home and buy a warden assisted 1 bedroom flat that had been vacant for over a year. I suspect that they wanted to buy her house to rent it out (as they have expressed a desire to do this in the past (to buy me out of my inheritance), take advantage of the current Stamp Duty situation, and I'd imagine negotiate a great price with my Mum for a quick sale. I was staying in my Mum's house (as it was near to the hospital), - my sister lied to me saying that Mum has agreed to sell her house and that the next step is to get valuations. It turned out to be more lies, Mum didn't agree to it at all - I didn't want Mum to be thinking about anything else but getting better, and was upset at being forced to have such conversations with her at this time (every telephone conversation with her at that time could've been my last (couldnt visit with Covid obviously)).
The other complication to this is my Mum cannot deal with confrontation. She is just not equipped to argue, - and she is not the most articulate. She won't want to stick her head out and tell my sister to pipe down. My sister is very strong, domineering, firey, calculative, manipulative person - she uses her Grandkids a lot to manipulate Mum.
My sister lives 5 mins from my Mum - I am over an hour away, - so my Mum does not want to fall out with her daughter as she won't have her help, nor see her Grandkids.
Sounds like a complete nightmare.
I have had different but similar family dramas. They are more common than you may think.
My experience is you can never negotiate or coach the aggressor / psycho.
My best results have been achieved by distancing them and getting on with those who do have faith in you and value your contribution.
You won’t be able to use your mum to straighten your sister out. That route just creates more trouble.
Just focus on your relationship with your mum, she know who you are regardless of any muck your sister may throw.
Protect yourself with discussions with the Police and solicitor and then carry on.
This. Talk to them all. I've seen a similar thing happen, and the person called the police several times with no real reason, but the 'call outs' get recorded. So after 2 or 3 they the officers think there is 'prior' because of the previous calls, so take it more seriously and you find yourself being treated as the offender, not the victim. You seriously need to get someone to see what is happening. If not you could find yourself in handcuffs going to the station because the police have to act on complaints.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Yes. From what I can see, your sister appears to have made some very serious accusations and the police have your word against hers. If they investigate, they will investigate you and it ain’t what you did, it’s what they think they can get a jury to believe. Getting into that without seeking legal advice first, is just plain suicidal imho. Call me paranoid but speak to a lawyer first.
This...and before your sister persuades your mum to give her power of attorney or something else that may end up not being in her own best interest.
A lawyer will be best placed consider all suggestions and to lay out your alternatives. You just need to find a good one...
Prepare all of your notes, recollections, evidence of key events and dates, possible witnesses, officers numbers, receipts for the groceries and bills paid, etc.
You will need this, preferably in chronological order, to brief a solicitor if you don’t do it in advance he will ask for it and you get to pay for two visits.
Remember your sister may be ill.
Notes, solicitor and perhaps invite a neutral family member along to visit so that you have a witness, etc.
As well as logging times that you are visiting your mother - take a gopro or similar and plonk it on a table - for the period you are there.
Store the footage, and don't mention it unless you have to.
This. If nothing else it's absolute proof of your visits and what really happens during them.
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The bizzies are only interested in chalking up a 'solved' crime, talking to them without a solicitor present is an easy way to incriminate yourself. They are NOT your friends.
OP, are a member of a Union via work who can provide legal advice? Otherwise locate a lawyer familiar with family disputes.
Sounds like you sister will try every angle to get her hands on the house and any inheritance. YOu should look at getting power of attorney for you mother's financial affairs. I'm not familiar with English legislation but that may need your mother's GP to certify she's mentally fit to make an informed decision and a witness of your mothers choice plus lawyer at the signing.
Last edited by J J Carter; 6th May 2021 at 21:00.
Social services deal with adult safeguarding issues. Whilst the accusations are being levelled at you, in my opinion this is a safeguarding issue because of your sisters behaviour which will be causing distress to all concerned. Speak to adult services. Make a vulnerable person safeguarding referral and take the advice given. There is lots of well meaning advice on here but it is always best to go via the correct process which will mean that things are logged and investigated properly. Adult safeguarding issues are far more prevalent than people realise.
Agree with all this. But, good luck with this meeting threshold! I’d be surprised if they look at this twice (once to be honest!).
I hate to say it but I think you’re in this one by yourself, so be smart! Police won’t be interested, I see no way this even comes close to meeting threshold for SS, what do we really hope a solicitor will accomplish. The minute they send a letter you’ll be presented as the one in the family who got solicitors involved.
Don’t rollover, but don’t give her ammunition. What do you hope to achieve? SG your mums assets? Limit the relationship between her and your mum, build your relationship with your Mum, protect your inheritance. Decide this and then make a pragmatic plan of action.
100% this.
Wasting Police time?
Perverting the course of justice?
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/wasting-police-time/
I hear what you're saying about involving a solicitor - it could escalate - letters back and forth.. however, I don't think my sister will stop, - I believe she feels so guity about giving my Mum Covid, she is trying to destroy me to redirect the spotlight
It's very difficult to know what to do - I do have access to legal advice via EAP employer assistance program. I'm waiting for a call back. I loathe to pay God knows how much in legal costs to a solicitor, - just to defend myself from saving my Mum's life - it seems crazy - however if that's the way to go I will do it.
I still have the phone number of the lead physiotherapist and occupational therapist who I got on very well with, they could also provide an additional point of view. Thankfully I also diarised most of my time at my Mum's, so I could trawl through that and put together a rough list of the many things that I did.
Thanks again everyone
Not a priority, but check that your mum has a will and is happy with it. No need to ask what’s in it, just that it is properly written and beyond dispute before her mental capacity can be called into question. Probably best that you don’t involve yourself if she’s yet to write one - just provide her with a few numbers she can call to get the ball rolling. Otherwise your sister may claim you applied pressure in that regard too.
Best of luck
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Thanks - Mum has a will - she has made both myself and my sister's husband executors. I have asked my Mum to remove both of us, and appoint it to a solicitor, - as I just cannot trust him nor want to deal with him.
The other thing to think about is whether your mother has a Lasting Power of Attorney set up. If the event that she becomes incapacitated and unable to look after herself, this can let her appoint someone she trusts to manage her affairs.
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
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I think you can guarantee that there will be little left after solicitor fees.
Make sure you have a copy of the current will, as who knows - your BIL might be left as sole-executor. Then, you will be dealing with him from outside rather than inside.
I've already asked my Mum to remove myself and BIL from will, as obviously I will be devasted when I lose my Mum and won't want to be having a battle with the sister and BIL, - I fear however if I keep talking about the will and asking for POA etc Mum might start to wonder that the only thing I am interested in is the inheritance. It's a simple estate anyway, - just her house - so solicitors fees shouldnt be much, - and if Mum eventually ends up in a home i'm presuming the house will be sold to pay for her care so they'll be no inheritance anyway...
It’s about going down the correct route to recording and taking advice from the people that can offer appropriate guidance and advice. The threshold will not yet be met but any other escalation may trigger. They will advise, record and then take action if the situation deteriorates. There is lots of well meaning advice on here and people are well intentioned. However, some of the advice will ensure that the OP looks like he has an agenda. That is the last thing he will need. Asking about wills and going to solicitors or the police is not the way forward. I am speaking from a position of living with someone that trains in adult safeguarding issues amongst other things. This is far more common than people realise.
Last edited by Bluemoon7; 7th May 2021 at 13:55.
Solicitor all the way. I would not even talk to the police under caution, no comment all the way.
I still don’t think it’s the right approach. From what’s been described, whilst the situation is unpleasant, there’s no evidence she’s at risk.
If OP was to refer he would almost certainly need to let his Mum know first. And if not she would find out. This would very likely increase hostilities between all parties
As there’s no way it would meet threshold what would the benefit be. I feel for Social Workers, they seem to go into it for the right reasons and quickly get bogged down with bureaucracy. I really don’t think there’s capacity for them to give friendly advice over a cup of tea. Sometimes the only way to solve family issues is within the family.
So at the moment, myself, our Dad, an Uncle, Cousin & Wife, the legal advisor I spoke to this morning, and psychologist I spoke to; all believe that my sister is mentally ill.
I'm going to discuss it further with my cousin and friends before I do anything, - however at the moment I am torn between:
- going to the Police and stating my side, telling them that I feel intimidated, harrassed & stressed about the entire thing, and asking for advice.
- Doing nothing. Given that the Police have attended, seemed very happy that all was well, - so therefore, if she calls them again, or makes any more false allergations, I think she'll very quickly lose even more credibily and she'll be digging herself a bigger and bigger hole.
I could float the question around the family and see if there is anyone in a position and willing to suggest to her that she gets help, - as obviously if she thinks that the suggestion comes from me I doubt she'll be receptive to it.
As for the solicitor, - it'll be £hundreds just to have a consultation, - I'm not that interested in paying through the nose to protect myself from looking after my Mum - it's a difficult pill to swallow.
The thing about safeguarding, whether dealing with adults or vulnerable children, is that it is always best to resolve things before they get out of hand. As I stated earlier, talk to people who deal with this for a living and are specialised in resolving familial disputes and impartially ensuring that vulnerable people are protected.
The OP has asked for advice about what are false accusations. He has already had a police call out. His elderly mother is in the middle of a familial dispute not of her making, nor his by the sounds of it. Adult services would visit and ensure all is well by speaking to his mother, possibly putting her and the OP’s mind at rest with some good advice. They have to, just like the police had to come out to ensure all was well. They decide whether a threshold has been met by assessing the situation.
Two thoughts to consider, nobody needs a possible victim’s consent to refer a safeguarding matter. If that was the case we would have far more serious issues than we currently have. What the general public may not see as a risk adult services deal with daily. Financial, relationship, isolation, false allegations, emotional harm caused by disputes within the family are all risks to vulnerable adults. Also I may be missing something but the leaving the family to sort things out is not actually working and things appear to be deteriorating. I work independently in children’s safeguarding, usually when things have gone catastrophically wrong and I am brought in to make sense of it. A cup of tea, chat and friendly advice we call an initial assessment visit. It can head a lot off...... it’s pretty much the same in adult services.
Many thanks for your help, - and from someone in your position it's much apprecitated.
To be clear, you're suggesting that I make a 'vulnerable person safeguarding referral' in regards to my Sister, yes? Or about my Mum? Or simply just all them and explain the situation?
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social...erable-adults/
It’s only proof of the visits where it was used.
A very sad situation. Best of luck getting it sorted and hoping you can find some calm again ASAP.
I don’t disagree but from my experience SC is in crisis. For what you describe there simply aren’t the resources, it won’t happen.
My experience is with children’s services but it is widely known that adult services are probably more stretched. Some of the cases I see, I genuinely cannot believe don’t meet threshold for help. It really is unbelievable at times.
In most cases they are looking for reasons not to get involved, they simply have too many cases.
However, in reality I see no reason real harm if the OP makes a referral. But there aren’t going to be any silver bullets. Just lots of dialogue between the family, which looks like is always underway.
My brother in law had a nutcase / abusive wife (now ex thankfully) ... it caused no end of trouble and she would call the Police and Social Services making false allegations about him and because she was the woman/mother and the person making the allegations she set the agenda and controlled the whole process and used the officials to make my BILs life hell and she did it successfully and I suspect the authorities still think he was the villain because it's usually the man right ...
He also ended up with conviction as a result ...
If I were on the receiving end of this type of allegations I would be looking to have some control over the agenda and process.
Sadly the Police & SS just saw the obvious answer and she knew they would and played the whole system like a pro (this wasn't her first round of it either) ... worst human I have ever met ...
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