Worthy or not worthy.

[slever]

I have been looking at Patek Philippe Calatrava models for a couple of years now because I decided I wanted an unfashionable gold dress watch. I ’ve also looked at Vacheron Constantin (really tempted and enjoyed good service from their London Boutique before Covid chaos) and JLC Ultra Thin. I gradually honed the choice down to a Calatrava and when the new 6119 model was announced decided it was the one I wanted. I’m treating myself after saving up for it but later in remembrance after a modest inheritance from a relative. Something to add to my collection with personal meaning I could keep forever.

I’ called a local retailer (who I won’t name to save their embarrassment) and asked about the new Calatrava and and the same time about another watch for my Son ’s upcoming 21st birthday - either a JLC Reverso or a Cartier Santos; I wanted to know what they have in stock for him to try on so we can go as a family and chose one.

Apparently, they take ‘”notice of interest’” for customers who inquire about a new Patek Philippe watch purchase. Fair enough I thought so I waited.

Today I’ve just had an email from the retailer saying they are ‘unable to register a ‘”notice of interest’” for me and would I like to look at something else from the range - I’ve already spent three years making my mind up. Neither have they managed to let me know what stock they have or can get from other branches for the birthday gift for my Son. A two watch enquiry.

I’ m not a previous customer of the AD or of Patek but I wanted to give my business to a local retailer rather than to one of the big London outlets. My brother has bought from them in the past and recommended them. I deliberately didn’t call every AD in the country to enquire about the Patek to demonstrate a degree of honesty and loyalty my chosen AD. I accept they have to qualify their sales leads and give priority to their existing and valued clients first and I’m a first time Patek buyer so happy to wait my turn. They could have asked about the modest collection I’ve built up over 30 years and I’ would have told them. I could have also said I’ve never sold a watch in my life so I’m not a flipper or trader.

I’m rather annoyed I can’t even ask or be considered to buy such a watch. What should be an enjoyable experience has been far from it.

So far . . .

[Satori]

I Why are some retailers so difficult? Any business needs new customers and well as existing customers, and limited production makes for wait lists, of course. I can’t even pass on my place in a wait list to the next generation.

Sign of the times. Some sales people get up themselves when their market is hot. The same people usually crash and burn when the pendulum swings back because customers have long memories.

It looks to be a lovely watch the 6119 (though I’d take an 1815 in preference every day) but it is not worth the hassle of dealing with crap for. You have £23k to plonk down an a single piece of jewellery and that should make any competent sales person approach you with due respect.

The good news is that you later found an AD worthy of your patronage. I hope you have the full customer experience you deserve with them.

[slever]

Thanks Satori, The second dealer I enquired with helped me with a Royal Oak purchase when I called in. Although they didn’t have one of the models I was looking for they we’re happy to let me try the gold and diamond bezel ones they did have in stock. It was no problem. I made a point of saying I wouldn’t be buying either of them so as to not waste their time, but none the less they still helped me decide on the model and size I wanted. Even though I was unable to buy a watch from them then they’ll be getting my business this time because I remember how courteous and helpful they were.

[jonasy]

This bullshit behaviour will bite many ADs back once the Instagram crowd has moved on and the economy taken a hit ..

[Fender]

At first I thought they were being quite decent in at least letting you know you were wasting your time.

Then the 'would you like to see something you don't really want' sank in.

It's disrespectful. Hope they end up in trouble.

[Justin Case]

This bullshit behaviour will bite many ADs back once the Instagram crowd has moved on and the economy taken a hit ..

Only a matter of time.

[TaketheCannoli]

It's all complete bullshit.

[M1011]

Perhaps I'm utterly out of date, but I thought Calatrava's were the thing you had to buy in order to work your way up to one of the hard-to-get Patek pieces... If you can't get a Calatrava, what is it that they actually sell to foot traffic?

[Justin Case]

Perhaps I'm utterly out of date, but I thought Calatrava's were the thing you had to buy in order to work your way up to one of the hard-to-get Patek pieces... If you can't get a Calatrava, what is it that they actually sell to foot traffic?

It’s the new one just released I think. They need to keep the first lot for the big spenders, pretend they are special in being first to be allowed to fill the till. The key is finding an AD,or even better a friend who works at an AD, so that you can cut out all the BS. Not that I’ve ever bought a Patek, probably never will.

[MartynJC (UK)]

That’s really bad service. Things were different back in 2006 when I got my one and only Calatrava (they even let me take one home for 24hrs to see which I liked). How times change.

[ozzyb123]

This bullshit behaviour will bite many ADs back once the Instagram crowd has moved on and the economy taken a hit ..

The economy took a 20% hit last year and watch prices went up 20%.


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[JGJG]

This [...] behaviour

WT, dear boy....

[M1011]

The economy took a 20% hit last year and watch prices went up 20%.

Yes but next year the economy might boom and we'll stop buying watches and start collecting Hermes handbags instead...

[slever]

I’ve just remembered. The first time I called them about a month ago I said I’m interested in a watch for a birthday present for my son and another one for me. First thing they said was “*is it a Rolex?*” and I said “*no”*. Silence for a few seconds as the realisation sunk in that they’,ve got some strange bloke on the phone who says he *doesn’t* want to buy a Rolex - and even worse - he says be *wants* to buy a Patek.

I might write back and say seeing as I can’t have what you haven’t got and you won’t tell me what you have got (after asking for four weeks) how does anyone buy anything from you?

It was silly of me to think that I’m a buyer and you’re a seller and you just match the two up and Bingo!

[ozzyb123]

Yes but next year the economy might boom and we'll stop buying watches and start collecting Hermes handbags instead...

You’ll have to buy a watch before you can get a Hermes handbag


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[optix]

If it was the Patrimony Traditionnelle go with that.

It's a better watch IMO.

ADs trying to flaunt pieces no-one inquired about always make me laugh.


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[slever]

Yes, I’m going to look at the Vacherons again and a few Lange too after all the faffing I experienced - I’m going to keep an open mind and buy whichever I reckon is the best.

[893bet]

New watches are getting hotter and hotter. Especially Rolex and Patek. Doesn’t matter the model.

I would be very surprised if in 6-12 months you can’t buy this at ease.

But I would look at the Alange and Sohne second hand market personally.

[Danstone]

Yes, I’m going to look at the Vacherons again and a few Lange too after all the faffing I experienced - I’m going to keep an open mind and buy whichever I reckon is the best.

Have a look at Moser as well. When I was looking for a gold three hander last year I tried several from Patek, VC and even Rolex Cellini. Moser absolutely smashed them all on every level.

[oldoakknives]

New watches are getting hotter and hotter. Especially Rolex and Patek. Doesn’t matter the model.

I would be very surprised if in 6-12 months you can’t buy this at ease.

But I would look at the Alange and Sohne second hand market personally.

Reckon you'll be surprised then.

[slever]

Reckon you'll be surprised then.

I’m in no rush, I just don’t like being given a load of BS. Anyway, one phone call yesterday afternoon and I found one so I went and bought it today.

[893bet]

QED

I’m in no rush, I just don’t like being given a load of BS. Anyway, one phone call and I found one and bought it today.

[robert75]

I’m in no rush, I just don’t like being given a load of BS. Anyway, one phone call yesterday afternoon and I found one so I went and bought it today.

What did you buy?

Considering you can get a Breguet classique or Lange or VC at a discount I honestly dont understand the need to jump through hoops to purchase a Patek.

[wileeeeeey]

I’m in no rush, I just don’t like being given a load of BS. Anyway, one phone call yesterday afternoon and I found one so I went and bought it today.

Good for you. I'd honestly be tempted take a wrist shot and email it back to the AD who was being an idiot and say thanks for the help.

[slever]

Good for you. I'd honestly be tempted take a wrist shot and email it back to the AD who was being an idiot and say thanks for the help.

Temping, really tempting. I’ll leave it a bit to see if they they get in touch about the other watch I enquired about and then I’ll tell them what a bunch of so and so’s they were. You’d think I was asking to buy the Mona Lisa.

[oldoakknives]

I’m in no rush, I just don’t like being given a load of BS. Anyway, one phone call yesterday afternoon and I found one so I went and bought it today.

I agree with you, I was replying to the post saying in 6 months they'd be readily available. Which I doubt. I would have felt exactly the same if the dealer had spoken to me that way. I'm glad you got one, any pics?

[893bet]

I agree with you, I was replying to the post saying in 6 months they'd be readily available. Which I doubt. I would have felt exactly the same if the dealer had spoken to me that way. I'm glad you got one, any pics?

Why won’t they be readily available in 6 months? They are clearly already readily available if the OP got one from a phone call else where? It’s just this AD trying it on. They will change their tune when they don’t sell a single piece as they try make people wait months.

[slever]

I was very lucky that circumstances meant one was available so soon, very lucky indeed. I put a couple of pictures in the new arrivals thread. I didn’t take up a offer of an Aquanaut on allocation a number years back on two occasions and kicked myself ever since. It’s been a hell of itch I’ve had to scratch for so long.

[slever]

[slever]

[theancientmariner]

Yes, I’m going to look at the Vacherons again and a few Lange too after all the faffing I experienced - I’m going to keep an open mind and buy whichever I reckon is the best.

It's a beautiful watch that you've purchased.

That said, with the experience you had from an AD I would have 'ditched' the brand in a heartbeat unless it was a one off and other AD's were very helpful.

I've had dealings with a Vacheron AD and I have to say, despite not actually buying one, they were brilliant. Certainly encouraged me to buy one some day.

[Nealywheelie]

I'm not a dress watch person, but that is a very beautiful watch. Well done you for managing to get hold of it.
Wear in health, as they say.


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[PSTW]

Hugely not my cup of tea but even I can appreciate that.... lovely looking watch. Glad you got what you need, I was sorry to hear you’d become a beneficiary of the new model of self-important dealers.

[ryanb741]

You’ll have to buy a watch before you can get a Hermes handbag


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For context the bag cost £17.5k. The total spend on that transaction was £50k. On top of the watch on SC was a gold ladies watch plus a more bog standard Hermes picnic bag and some other leather stuff. That's not what you have to buy to get one. The purchaser already has a dozen or so Birkin/Kelly. It is what is expected that someone purchasing such a bag would also purchase at the same time. People who have to save up just to buy the bag alone aren't the people Hermes want buying their bags. There is an unwritten rule. You are representing their brand.

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[Rodder]

For context the bag cost £17.5k. The total spend on that transaction was £50k. On top of the watch on SC was a gold ladies watch plus a more bog standard Hermes picnic bag and some other leather stuff. That's not what you have to buy to get one. The purchaser already has a dozen or so Birkin/Kelly. It is what is expected that someone purchasing such a bag would also purchase at the same time. People who have to save up just to buy the bag alone aren't the people Hermes want buying their bags. There is an unwritten rule. You are representing their brand.

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Is it bad that I just felt a little bit queasy? It really puts our little hobby into perspective and maybe gives us an opportunity to reflect so that we don’t get caught up in similar.

I suppose for some people, success and meaning can be attributed to being provided the opportunity to buy a handbag or watch. This is consumerism at it’s very worse; judgemental and in some ways contemptuous. One is being defined entirely by their wealth.

I suppose it’s easy to get caught up in stuff like this.

[Danstone]

Is it bad that I just felt a little bit queasy? It really puts our little hobby into perspective and maybe gives us an opportunity to reflect so that we don’t get caught up in similar.

I suppose for some people, success and meaning can be attributed to being provided the opportunity to buy a handbag or watch. This is consumerism at it’s very worse; judgemental and in some ways contemptuous. One is being defined entirely by their wealth.

I suppose it’s easy to get caught up in stuff like this.

You’re not the only one. Strangely I have no problem with scarce and in demand items being kept for the best customers, to me that seems natural, although I firmly believe that in the Rolex world a lot of the scarcity is being created by AD’s feeding watches directly to the gray market. This case seems to go above and beyond that, in order to buy a bag you are required, as well as having buying history, to spend over £30k on junk at the same time that, presumably, the salesperson receives a healthy commission on. So, in effect, you are paying the salesperson to sell you something that they otherwise would not do. The word for that is bribery and it’s a crime.
Then we get onto the last part “you are representing their brand.” What does that mean? Can you have the money, be foolish enough to pay for the extras and yet be refused because you’re too tall, too short, too fat, the wrong colour? All seems very unsavoury to me but it’s probably the way that the watch world is heading.

[Ozyjohn]

This bullshit behaviour will bite many ADs back once the Instagram crowd has moved on and the economy taken a hit ..

+1

[aksing]

It's a bad omen when they take this attitude with Calatravas, I hope these new models won't get too inundated with frustrated sports model buyers or these will go the same way and the whole brand becomes untouchable.

[ODP]

For context the bag cost £17.5k. The total spend on that transaction was £50k. On top of the watch on SC was a gold ladies watch plus a more bog standard Hermes picnic bag and some other leather stuff. That's not what you have to buy to get one. The purchaser already has a dozen or so Birkin/Kelly. It is what is expected that someone purchasing such a bag would also purchase at the same time. People who have to save up just to buy the bag alone aren't the people Hermes want buying their bags. There is an unwritten rule. You are representing their brand.

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Its a funny, vacuous world we live in.

[slever]

The second dealer were fantastic, no faffing, no pompous nonsense and no silly lists; I hope they were pleased in went to a ‘regular’ person who’ just likes watches and had been saving for years.

In the end, a relative left me a little windfall so it’s something to remember them by - my mum was pleased.

All’s well that ends well.

[tommyzzj]

Congrats OP...

Just took a photo with my father’s calatrava. He bought it from the Hourglass in Singapore years ago - no such behaviour from ADs back then.

Glad you got there in the end!




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[oldoakknives]

Why won’t they be readily available in 6 months? They are clearly already readily available if the OP got one from a phone call else where? It’s just this AD trying it on. They will change their tune when they don’t sell a single piece as they try make people wait months.

If they were readily available they would have sold him one. Another dealer had one, that was just lucky. I doubt they have any trouble selling Pateks.

[oldoakknives]

It's a lovely looking watch. Really like the sculpting around the bezel. Not surprised you're pleased with it.

[893bet]

If they were readily available they would have sold him one. Another dealer had one, that was just lucky. I doubt they have any trouble selling Pateks.

If it’s a wait list piece like that then no AD would just happen to have one in stock.

Gold Calatrava’s have traditionally been discounted, even by Patek. Not a lot maybe but certainly discounted regularly. This is a new release and buyers are desperate for anything new incase it doubles in value which may cause certain ADs, like this one, to try it on.

There will be no shortage of these at RRP.

[slever]

Congrats OP...

Just took a photo with my father’s calatrava. He bought it from the Hourglass in Singapore years ago - no such behaviour from ADs back then.

Glad you got there in the end!




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Very nice indeed, something special as it your dad’s. Simpler times back then.

[Fender]

For context the bag cost £17.5k. The total spend on that transaction was £50k. On top of the watch on SC was a gold ladies watch plus a more bog standard Hermes picnic bag and some other leather stuff. That's not what you have to buy to get one. The purchaser already has a dozen or so Birkin/Kelly. It is what is expected that someone purchasing such a bag would also purchase at the same time. People who have to save up just to buy the bag alone aren't the people Hermes want buying their bags. There is an unwritten rule. You are representing their brand.

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How you represent yourself is also important.