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Thread: Will Paula Venells ever be held accountable?

  1. #51
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    The gong should certainly be withdrawn.

  2. #52
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    I have been reading the Wikipedia articles about Horizon and Paula Vennells, and the more I read the angrier I get that she has not been prosecuted for her behaviour.

  3. #53

  4. #54
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classics View Post

    I suspect she will not now be offered any further Directorial or senior roles, as her name is now so toxic - given the very close link it has to this enormous and catestrophic miscarriage of justice.

    I do think there is a real need now for justice to be seen to be done. It cannot be right that nobody in an organisation that has wilfully and dishonestly inflicted so much misery on so many is every held personally accountable for the decision they made.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  5. #55
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Can anyone help me to find PV's recent statement, please? There are quotes from it in various article but I have been unable to find the full text.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    I suspect she will not now be offered any further Directorial or senior roles, as her name is now so toxic - given the very close link it has to this enormous and catestrophic miscarriage of justice.

    I do think there is a real need now for justice to be seen to be done. It cannot be right that nobody in an organisation that has wilfully and dishonestly inflicted so much misery on so many is every held personally accountable for the decision they made.
    Pretty sure people like her don't need to work again as they are financially well off, no mortgage and has a weekly/monthly fat pension.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    The similarities between her and an old boss of mine are striking: not only are they physically very similar in appearance (rat like), they both possess that air of infallibility and superiority that so many in the top civil service seem to have - perhaps why/how they elevated themselves to those positions in the first place?

    Unfortunately, I doubt she will be made to suffer in the way that her 'victims' have.
    Interesting comment given that the first time I had the misfortune of seeing a picture of her, the immediate first impression I got was that there was plenty of the írodentí about her!

  8. #58
    I thoroughly recommend Radio 4ís investigative journalism series on this Post Office scandal.

    There are 10 episodes on BBC sounds. Each episode is around 15 minutes and tell the story from the beginning to end

    Captivating listening.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m000jf7j

  9. #59
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    I read that the post office have distributed what they consider to be a generous £58 million. However, split that between 557 wronged parties... a hundred grand each, more or less. For a life, career and future destroyed. It isn't nothing but to me its absolutely insulting.

  10. #60
    Itís Amazing how fast the media and the authorities have gone for Noel Clarke yet the post office board seem immune to prosecution, if youíre in the club youíre bulletproof

  11. #61
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    I read that the post office have distributed what they consider to be a generous £58 million. However, split that between 557 wronged parties... a hundred grand each, more or less. For a life, career and future destroyed. It isn't nothing but to me its absolutely insulting.
    I read that it was nearer £10k each as the legals had the bulk of it.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    I read that it was nearer £10k each as the legals had the bulk of it.
    If you listen to the podcast on post #58, it says by the time legal fees are taken out, it would average out at £20k each, with some getting more and some less.

    A pitiful amount, but the claimants did settle with the PO out of court.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    If you listen to the podcast on post #58, it says by the time legal fees are taken out, it would average out at £20k each, with some getting more and some less.

    A pitiful amount, but the claimants did settle with the PO out of court.
    Whilst I didnít fund this case, Iíve been at the forefront of Litigation Funding since itís inception in 2007 and prior to that, insuring the downside risk of litigation, ďAfter the EventĒ Insurance.

    Sadly, itís a very expensive - all cases if they go to trial end up with 50/50 odds - necessity unless you are very wealthy.

    The Tories really havenít helped with their slavish libertarian dribbling which first saw court fees increased for cases valued at over £200K from £400 to £10,000! Users should pay donít you know, not us non users and then they sucked up to their insurer donors by making my premiums unrecoverable from the other side in costs as they previously had been, unless its libel for some reason.

    Itís funny to work in an industry youíd happily see ended with a return to Legal Aid again. Sadly, I donít see that happening ever so justice will either remain out of reach or involve very expensive Third Party Funding.

  14. #64
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    If you listen to the podcast on post #58, it says by the time legal fees are taken out, it would average out at £20k each, with some getting more and some less.

    A pitiful amount, but the claimants did settle with the PO out of court.
    Thanks for the correction. I don't have a BBC account, so hadn't listened to the series.

    The loss of Legal Aid is certainly a loss for the poor. I always thought that justice for all was one of the foundations for civilised nations Buffoon?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    Thanks for the correction. I don't have a BBC account, so hadn't listened to the series.

    The loss of Legal Aid is certainly a loss for the poor. I always thought that justice for all was one of the foundations for civilised nations Buffoon?
    It was, and it should be. It most certainly isnít now.

    I could give literally hundreds of examples where unfortunate folks have had to use our services and walked away with only 50% of the damages that were calculated to the last penny by the judge as putting them back in the same position they had been prior to whatever necessitated the litigation.

    If your case is claiming under £100,000, donít even bother, the economics work out so badly we canít help while keeping our reputation intact. Once again, Iíve got some horrible examples of those, little old ladies ripped off for what remains of their savings, restaurant on a self repairing lease with criminal damage unrepaired etc.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by thebuffoon View Post
    It was, and it should be. It most certainly isnít now.

    I could give literally hundreds of examples where unfortunate folks have had to use our services and walked away with only 50% of the damages that were calculated to the last penny by the judge as putting them back in the same position they had been prior to whatever necessitated the litigation.

    If your case is claiming under £100,000, donít even bother, the economics work out so badly we canít help while keeping our reputation intact. Once again, Iíve got some horrible examples of those, little old ladies ripped off for what remains of their savings, restaurant on a self repairing lease with criminal damage unrepaired etc.
    Jupiter forgot to say that it is impossible to recover your costs if found not guilty of a motoring offence since 2013, I found that one out the hard way.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Jupiter forgot to say that it is impossible to recover your costs if found not guilty of a motoring offence since 2013, I found that one out the hard way.
    Oh yes! While I donít get involved in criminal cases, youíd never recover anything like what you need to spend to clear yourself. I know of a doctor accused wrongly of a crime who spent £97,000 on his defence and received £2,400 back towards that, roughly what theyíd have spent on the defence via legal aid. No justice at all.

    At least it plays well to the gammon and the librarian twats.

  18. #68
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebuffoon View Post

    At least it plays well to the gammon and the librarian twats.
    What have you got against librarians!!

  19. #69
    Master brigant's Avatar
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    Thete will be many small claims mixed up in this. I happen to knoow one eex postmaster who was deemed to owe £5000. He has received £6500 in compensation so is quite happy. Mind you, he didn't have his reputation dragged through the mud. He tells me that weekly totalling often didn't agree (with Horizon) with discrepancies almost every week. The Help Desk simply said they couldn't help so there was obviously a big failing there as well.

  20. #70
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    More subpostmasters cleared:

    The Court of Appeal has cleared 12 more former subpostmasters who were wrongly convicted of offences during the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    It brings the total of judgements overturned to 57, but hundreds more are hoping for similar decisions...

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    More subpostmasters cleared:

    The Court of Appeal has cleared 12 more former subpostmasters who were wrongly convicted of offences during the Post Office Horizon scandal.

    It brings the total of judgements overturned to 57, but hundreds more are hoping for similar decisions...
    Itís criminal itís taking so long Öthe initial issue was a disgrace but the delay correcting it is even worse.

  22. #72
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Post Office workers to get up to £100,000 interim payouts

    Post Office workers who have had their convictions for theft, fraud and false accounting Ė the result of computing errors Ė quashed will each get an interim compensation payment of up to £100,000 the government has said.

    In a written statement to the Commons on Thursday, the business secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, said the government was supporting the Post Office to provide the cash before final compensation settlements were agreed.

    The announcement came three days after 12 more Post Office workers had their convictions quashed at the court of appeal. Mondayís judgment took the total number of Post Office workers to be cleared to 57. They had been convicted because the defective Horizon IT system falsely suggested there were cash shortfalls.

    Campaigners believe that as many as 900 operators may have been prosecuted and convicted between 2000 and 2014, in one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in British legal history...

  23. #73
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    A welcome, if token, development:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-cbe-official/

  24. #74
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    It's a very small start, but it's just a gong.

  25. #75
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    It will come as no surprise to learn that the UK taxpayer [is] to foot bill for Post Office staff wrongly convicted of theft:

    The government has agreed that the taxpayer will foot the substantial compensation bill for former Post Office workers who were wrongly convicted of theft due to the defective Horizon IT system.

    The Post Office has said it cannot afford the multimillion-pound cleanup bill for the scandal and on Tuesday the government, which is the serviceís only shareholder, confirmed its intention to step in.

    So far, 72 post office operatorsí convictions have been quashed. Several other cases are in train, and there are potentially hundreds more operators whose convictions relied on Horizon evidence who may seek to clear their names.

    In a written ministerial statement, the postal affairs minister, Paul Scully, said he wanted those with quashed convictions to be compensated ďfairly and swiftlyĒ...

  26. #76
    Master brigant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    She should be held to account completely. Don't forget people died because of her behaviour.

    I worked all my life in I.T. and it must have been glaringly obvious that this was an I.T failure and yet the P.O. did everything to cover up and use their internal police to blame hundreds of innocent parties.

    It is an absolute disgrace that this is still dragging on.

  27. #77
    Really, the likes of her should be jailed for the part she played in ruining so many lives.

  28. #78
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    It's a pity we don't have anybody on the forum who might have some senior management experience in the Post Office from around the time of the introduction of the Horizon system. Oh wait...
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    It's a pity we don't have anybody on the forum who might have some senior management experience in the Post Office from around the time of the introduction of the Horizon system. Oh wait...
    Now, now - you know it is anything goes in procurement as long as you keep winning those elections.

  30. #80
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    Still no idea what Vennells isn't in front of a jury over this. I'm sure I read that there is actual evidence she knew of or approved of the cover up?

    The State/Quango executive appointment gravy train is responsible for lots of wasted money and worse, but this must be the most truly awful example - there has to be a method to stop this kind of incompetence and arrrogance.

  31. #81
    Craftsman T1ckT0ck's Avatar
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    Just watching BBC interviews with victims of this. One lady was wrongly imprisoned in holloway at 19 for alleged £11k theft!

    I really hope this enquiry helps all those affected and find people within the PO accountable, saying sorry doesnít cut it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  32. #82
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    This whole debacle is an utter disgrace and the senior managers at the PO should be locked up.

    I saw how this affected our local PO, she wasnít jailed but had to pay back money sheíd never stolen. It ruined her.

  33. #83
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
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    Also caught this in the TV last night, the guy being interviewed got put away for allegedly pilfering £208k.

    What really shocks me about these cases is that from the few that Iíve read about nobody could actually trace where the ďstolenĒ money went and in one case the judge even mentioned this in the final summation but they still got put away as the system could never be wrong.

    I think that both the people at the PO and the incumbent supplier should be judged and put away for at least lying under oath.

  34. #84
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    "Will Paula Venells ever be held accountable?"

    Well, take a look at the state of our country - No-one with any power is EVER held accountable anymore, for anything.

    Lock up a few sub-postmasters for something they didn't do? Yeah, fine, no worries.

    Prosecute those responsible for the terrible system that led to it and then instituted a cover-up? No, no, that wouldn't be right...

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  35. #85
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Prosecute those responsible for the terrible system that led to it and then instituted a cover-up? No, no, that wouldn't be right...
    It would risk upsetting the status quo. It isn't the individuals who are being protected as such; it is the status quo that is being protected.

    I've written before on this forum about the importance of preserving the status quo to the class of people who benefit from it.

  36. #86
    Panorama covered this tonight, I wonder if anything will happen now

  37. #87
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    I just watched the Panarama investigation on BBC1. Was vaguely aware of the story but it really is a horrible scandal with so many victims. Shameful

  38. #88
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    Iíve been aware of this for years, every time it gets another airing it makes my blood boil that those who covered this up and allowed people to be prosecuted and imprisoned when they must have known they were not guilty is a disgrace and the fact they have not been prosecuted for perpetuating this miscarriage of justice just stinks of the elite protecting their own.

    For those whoís lives have been ruined by this scandal their needs to be instant recourse.

  39. #89
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Paula Venells CBE (2019).

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Paula Venells CBE (2019).
    I donít understand why there hasnít been a class action against her and her board

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Paula Venells CBE (2019).
    I donít understand why there hasnít been a class action against her and her board

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Paula Venells CBE (2019).
    It is beyond outrageous that Vennells has not had that CBE ripped from her!

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Paula Venells CBE (2019).
    I was not aware of that. Outrageous and further evidence of the corrupt elite.

  43. #93
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    I rarely comment on this kind of affair but cannot keep silent any longer. Utterly disgraceful shirking of responsibility. Has any attempt at an apology been made by this self obsessed creature?

  44. #94
    Unfortunately, I only caught the last part. Did I hear correctly that Fujitsu accessed and edited the live master data directly? And Fujitsu has just received contracts from HMRC and FCO?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Unfortunately, I only caught the last part. Did I hear correctly that Fujitsu accessed and edited the live master data directly? And Fujitsu has just received contracts from HMRC and FCO?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Itís worse than that, they remote accessed the sub post offices accounts, edited them and the Post office kept it secret, this in itself makes the prosecutions unsafe and is perjury, yet they are getting away with it.

  46. #96
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    Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but has the possibility of gross negligence manslaughter charges been considered?

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Unfortunately, I only caught the last part. Did I hear correctly that Fujitsu accessed and edited the live master data directly? And Fujitsu has just received contracts from HMRC and FCO?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    There are a few large organisations who always get the government contracts, Fujitsu is one of them.

    I worked in I.T. for 40 years and never came across a system where data ( and programs) couldn't be manipulated by those in the know.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but has the possibility of gross negligence manslaughter charges been considered?
    I watched this tonight with my brother in law who is a legal beagle. He reckons perverting the course of justice should be brought against all involved.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Iíve been aware of this for years, every time it gets another airing it makes my blood boil that those who covered this up and allowed people to be prosecuted and imprisoned when they must have known they were not guilty is a disgrace and the fact they have not been prosecuted for perpetuating this miscarriage of justice just stinks of the elite protecting their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by brigant View Post
    There are a few large organisations who always get the government contracts, Fujitsu is one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    further evidence of the corrupt elite.
    I think it's an error to focus on "the elite". This probably suits 'them'. Why is it a mistake? Because (a) someone else will often think that you are in "the elite" if you have some privilege (even legitimately earned) that they do not have and (b) because I feel it misses the more fundamental point.

    As I wrote previously, this sort of thing is about the status quo and maintenance of it. There are beneficiaries of the status quo, what or who are commonly called "the elite" or "the ruling classes" (e.g. Paula Venells, Fujitsu, in this particular context), but it is the status quo itself that is always being protected. Why? Because it must be so to sustain and extend the system as a whole.

    The system becomes an entity in its own right with its own life. "The elite", however you define that group at any one time, may be the beneficiaries of the status quo but the status quo goes on.

    Now here's the real problem: The status quo is not just sustained by "the elite" or by the "ruling classes". It's us. All of us.

    For example, if you vote, you sustain it. It doesn't matter which party you vote for or even if you spoil your ballot; you are upholding the status quo. If you pay tax you are upholding the status quo. If you make use of a tax loophole, big or small, you are upholding the status quo (anything from an ISA to being Amazon). Watching the BBC is (passively) upholding the status quo. And so on. Your daily life is almost certainly part and parcel of the status quo.

    Now, high-ranking members of the bureaucracy of the status quo, people like Paula Venells, can be turned on by the forces and bureaucracy of the status quo but a tipping point has to be reached for that to happen. That tipping point is when continuing to ignore them becomes more damaging to the sustenance and continuation of the status quo than acting. Has that point been reached? I doubt it, although Panorama might (or might not) help.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I think it's an error to focus on "the elite". This probably suits 'them'. Why is it a mistake? Because (a) someone else will often think that you are in "the elite" if you have some privilege (even legitimately earned) that they do not have and (b) because I feel it misses the more fundamental point.

    As I wrote previously, this sort of thing is about the status quo and maintenance of it. There are beneficiaries of the status quo, what or who are commonly called "the elite" or "the ruling classes" (e.g. Paula Venells, Fujitsu, in this particular context), but it is the status quo itself that is always being protected. Why? Because it must be so to sustain and extend the system as a whole.

    The system becomes an entity in its own right with its own life. "The elite", however you define that group at any one time, may be the beneficiaries of the status quo but the status quo goes on.

    Now here's the real problem: The status quo is not just sustained by "the elite" or by the "ruling classes". It's us. All of us.

    For example, if you vote, you sustain it. It doesn't matter which party you vote for or even if you spoil your ballot; you are upholding the status quo. If you pay tax you are upholding the status quo. If you make use of a tax loophole, big or small, you are upholding the status quo (anything from an ISA to being Amazon). Watching the BBC is (passively) upholding the status quo. And so on. Your daily life is almost certainly part and parcel of the status quo.

    Now, high-ranking members of the bureaucracy of the status quo, people like Paula Venells, can be turned on by the forces and bureaucracy of the status quo but a tipping point has to be reached for that to happen. That tipping point is when continuing to ignore them becomes more damaging to the sustenance and continuation of the status quo than acting. Has that point been reached? I doubt it, although Panorama might (or might not) help.
    Sorry, but Iím failing to understand your point Ö

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