Questions on PV's candidature for Bishop of London position:
I only recently heard about private prosecutions and without knowing anything about them, it seems ludicrous that a personal can end up with a criminal record or worse, simply due to a corporation having the power to overwhelm them. It can't be argued that the checks and balances are the CPS, they have enough on their plate and would inevitably overlook things as it seems has happened.Originally Posted by draftsmann
BlackBeltBarrister's take on some of it
Careful not to mix up the two. The Government is sole owner of Post Office Limited. The Royal Mail is a separate, publicly owned (largely by a Czech billionaire apparently) company.
The devil will be in the detail of this announcement. With anything like this it'll come with strings and a noose, I'd wait to see the full details. But it is a step in the right direction - albeit 10 or so years too late.
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Last edited by Tabs; 10th January 2024 at 19:30.
The possible excessive workload of the CPS, or any other factor calling into question it’s fitness for purpose, is another matter altogether. The fact is that the private prosecution system does include checks and balances. Better that than preventing private parties from prosecuting others.
I do have some knowledge of this which is a discussion for other parts of the forum; but I reiterate: be careful what you wish for.
And we now understand the PO was the perpetrator (with Fujitsu), investigator and prosecutor.
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Yup.
Not sure if it’s been highlighted but there’s a really good podcast on BBC Sounds called The Great Post Office Trial which goes right back to 2009 /10 . There are names you’ll be familiar with from the TV show but it puts a lot more meat on the bones of the story .
The reporter and narrator is a chap called Nick Wallis and it’s quite a compelling listen .
To answer the original question, she'll never be held accountable.. She'll swan of into the sunset on a healthy pension and blame everyone either down the ladder or at Fujitsu.
Compensation will be paid but it won't even scratch the surface of the issue (in my opinion) and in a years time it will just be 'that thing with the PO'.
75 K OR they've the option of going through an 'intensive' process for I think a max of 600k, iirc. BUT as one victim said 75 K doesn't touch the sides, LIVES where deliberately, malignly ruined, they were thrown under the bus for a cover up...by the PO and a major government supplier.
Exactly as I see it.Old Fish n Chip paper.The Government will soon want it to fade away rather than chase those who are guilty,and Fujitsu will probably get away very lightly so as not to upset diplomatic relations with their Country.
This.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Ah, indeed, well spotted that man!
There's hardly an arm of the Brit state in which Fujitsu aren't involved, HO, MOD, HMRC, Transport for London, FCA, NHS England, Land registry and more, it's another example of Carney's point about our dependency on the kindness of strangers once again...Fujitsu are literally too big, crucial to running the state to be meaningfully punished and sanctioned, cast out for their role in ruining mere citizens lives, it'd be chaos...Interestingly for all talk of the small, less expensive state from certain quarters the price of all this outsourcing of the states infrastructure and services has gone from 64 billion 2010 to 222 billion last year...opaque process for awarding these contracts too, and then there's the inefficiency of service delivery, plus the scandals...of course the real story is how come nobody in Govt is overseeing this vast spend for often poor services...as well as nobody ''in charge'' noticing or questioning the amount of alleged postmaster fraud shooting up coincidentally after Horizon's introduction...these are sobering thoughts.
Last edited by Passenger; 11th January 2024 at 07:23.
What a debacle and in many ways a fabulous distraction for the Government.
Incredible how these MP’s and Saviour Sunak have suddenly woken up and are now desk thumping and grandstanding and changing law.
Alan Bates clearly a force to be reckoned with but the fawning by MP’s who previously did seemingly FA are now characterising themselves as the biggest supporters to gain political brownie points.
Esther McVey “Minister for common sense” wants him Knighted as soon as possible she said “now that sounds common sense to me”
Rishi Sunak “It makes common sense to honour the Crusading postmaster”
Sir Kier Starmer “There’s an independent body for honours (same one presumably) but clearly it’s something the public would love to see”
I know I know I am being miserable but I just find the way in which these wretched MP’s are conducting themselves is sickening to watch.
Ah the MP's, the real 'heroes' of this and many another debacle, Grenfell, Windrush, the blood scandal, Pandemic handling in all it's myriad shambles...bless em, we're jolly fortunate to have their services.
Then someone will write a musical about it.
Chuckle, very good.
Worth a read…
https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/tag/post-office/
Although best avoided if you don’t want to become even more annoyed.
This is an eye opener. I am barely into it and have read this:
For better or for worse...The financial difficulties and stress led to the breakdown of his marriage, with Mr Duff's wife telling him she wanted a divorce because he was 'not man enough' to deal with the problems.
Steve Bradshaw is on live at the inquiry.
He is squirming,wriggling,lying,blaming others and convienently forgetting things.
As he gets stressed his Scouse accent gets more pronounced and squeaky.
Theres a lot of info on youtube this best explains whats going on.
There must have been some sort of culture led them to do this.
He's very good at passing the buck. For someone responsible for 'investigations' the field of his investigations appears very limited. He certainly never looked into Horizon and if it had problems as he 'wasn't technical' though further in the enquiry he seems to feel postmasters should - pity he wasn't picked up on it!
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
He seems to pass the buck to the lawyers a lot.
The video I posted says it all,there must have been a culture or/and a conspiracy.
They seem to all be involved.
Which could makes tomorrow's hearing interesting (link):
The Inquiry has confirmed today that it will hold a further hearing regarding the Post Office’s disclosure to the Inquiry on 12 January 2024.
Sir Wyn Williams announced his intention to hold the hearing after evidence from representatives of the Post Office, Herbert Smith Freehills and KPMG revealed process failings and potentially “deeper rooted problems” relating to the Post Office’s disclosure.
The Chair said, “there is a need for close monitoring of the disclosure process during the remainder of the Inquiry especially as it relates to disclosure by the Post Office”.
He has therefore called Chris Jackson, Partner, Burges Salmon LLP, to give evidence. Burges Salmon replaced Herbert Smith Freehills as the Post Office’s recognised legal representative from 1 September 2023...
Novara Media are quoting recorded minutes from Post Office Corporate meetings..........
As long as momentum is maintained- there MUST be criminal prosecutions of PO and Fujitsu (and possible legal) personnel.
A postmistress has threatened to stand against Ed Davey in his constituency at the next election, amid mounting fury over the Liberal Democrat leaders' role in the scandal.
Yvonne Tracey, a local independent councillor, was previously the deputy manager of a local Post Office branch.
Ta ta then Ed. Say hi to Jo when you see her.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Is this possibly "politics" perchance?A postmistress has threatened to stand against Ed Davey in his constituency at the next election, amid mounting fury over the Liberal Democrat leaders' role in the scandal.
Yvonne Tracey, a local independent councillor, was previously the deputy manager of a local Post Office branch.
Ta ta then Ed. Say hi to Jo when you see her.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I think Paula Vennels and other senior managers complicit in this must be cacking it now because it is all finally unravelling.
Vennels and her henchwoman Angela van den Bogerd's careers are dead. Neither of them now hold any positions anywhere and they are so toxic they never will.
I doubt either of them can go out freely in their home communities either, so they may finally be getting a bit of a taste of the hell they visited on hundreds of innocent people. What's needed now are prosecutions and imprisonment so that they get the full experience.
So clever my foot fell off.
Missed this one perchance? I'm not saying you're biased but.........
Last edited by oldoakknives; 11th January 2024 at 19:19.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Apparently the ex-head of the CPS insists he 'wasn't aware' of postmasters being hounded by the Crown Prosecution Service while he was in charge and says he doesn't know 'how many of those may or may not have involved Horizon'.
Seems Sir Keir mostly knew about the successes of the CPS and not it's failings.
Former business secretary Lord Mandelson told Times Radio that he was too focused on a mass post office closure programme at the time to notice the unfolding scandal.
He said: 'It just absorbed vast amounts of time and energy, and I'm afraid to say it was a massive distraction from this really big and appalling set of circumstances.'
So many things seem to go unnoticed.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Indeed I did - apologies, I've really not been following this thread too closely.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Go to 6 hours when the other lawyers start to ask questions.
The only good thing about it is seeing him squirm.
He is the typical bullying, hard man when in power.
You can see why so many of the PO workers are traumatised and confessed to things they didnt do,it must have been terrifying for them.
If hes so good an investigator as he says he is how come he got so many cases wrong,becuase he didnt care he was aware of the truth about the system.
If you're interested in watching the Inquiry, see: YouTube link.
I expect people will be calling Liverpool North delivery office to see if and when they had a disabled lift installed after Bradshaws evidence.
Seems the CPS was not even involved, there was no external scrutiny
https://www.ft.com/content/784cda3c-...b-cfd599d1ce67
I would not sign a statement that I had not written/approved.
Why did Bradshaw sign it?
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 11th January 2024 at 22:50.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Really?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...fice-operators
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Hear, hear!
CPS prosecuted 38 cases in total. Three of the 4 million cases prosecuted under Starmer were PO cases, given these would have been very minor cases for the CPS then I think it's more political mud slinging than factual.
All MPs apart from the now Lord Arbothnot should probably keep quiet really about this scandal.
Not quite. 3 resulted in convictions out of 11 actually prosecuted while he was there. The dear old Grauniad went for the lower figure it seems, not saying that 11 cases involving horizon were prosecuted during his somewhat blameless tenure.
“The CPS said on Wednesday night that it prosecuted 11 cases that “involved evidence connected to Horizon” – three resulted in convictions while Sir Keir was in charge. It turns the focus of the scandal to the Labour leader, after days of outrage at former Post Office boss Paula Vennells and Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey.”
When it hits the fan who can tell where it will land.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2476524.html
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I took it from the Times not the Guardian.
"The CPS prosecuted up to 38 cases based on data from Horizon, which was later found to be riddled with bugs. Three of these cases were prosecuted during Starmer’s tenure as DPP."
I still think the CPS/Starmer comments are purely political mud slinging /attemlted distraction from the fact almost all MPs on all sides allowed this to happen and most have mentioned nothing about it in Parliament until last week.
The lady in the Times was prosecuted for 3000 so I still don't understand how anyone expects the head of the 7000 strong CPS to be aware of this case?
OOK goes with his gut.
If you google
stephen bradshaw post office
You cant find one person sticking up for him, the reports all say the same things about him.
Perhaps now he will see what it felt like for those spat on in the street and threatened because of him.
If as he says he signed his statements but parts where written by PO lawyers is that perjury?
He was remarkably clear on dates and times when it suited him not even looking at notes,others he couldnt.
When he sat in on interviews it was nothing to do with him he had very little or no imput it was the lead interviewer who was responsible.
So much wrong that its hard to take it all in.
Shout out to the lawyers they are doing a very good job and the welshman in charge, hes trying to be very fair to all.
She also plead guilty and didn't receive a custodial sentence - so how this wasn't the number one priority of the head of the CPS I don't know...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/w...-cps-jplnzph0z
Here we go again.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Seems odd then that many people are saying all MPs, especially members of the government, who weren’t even involved with the CPS should have known about it.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Nah mate wrong venue . HAGWE.
What a evil little bully,he cant even apologise all hes doing is trying to save himself at any cost.
Make your own mind up.
https://www.postofficescandal.uk/new...was-green-lit/
A bit more from the Beebs Nick Wallis covering Tony Blair’s role in keeping Fujitsu at the trough .
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