Reply With QuoteAs you imply, crimes against the judicial system are far more serious than fraud against private individuals. Those concerned should be jailed for a very long time.Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana
750.000 signatures now, I wonder what it takes to embarrass our government
As you imply, crimes against the judicial system are far more serious than fraud against private individuals. Those concerned should be jailed for a very long time.
What generally happens is "deputy heads will roll", or it is decided not to prosecute the individual, then prosecute the organisation. As usual the plea is that lessons will be learned. The corner of the carpet is lifted and all the bad stuff is brushed under it.
And the Japanese ambassador will politely point out that any punishment or criticism of Fujitsu could put British jobs at risk.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thats what the press office woman said to me several times, lessons will be learned.
I said what along with thoughts and prayers.
I said give them the money this minute even if just an interim payment ,prosecute everyone who lied and stop making excuses.
The more that phone her the more chance of some action.
Utter nonsense - this will be just seen as another crank call.
The route to resolution is via the publicity the TV series has generated, Police involvement and legal proceedings.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Maybe if we all phone them?
Edit:- See it's been suggested!
Don't rule out any action. The more peeved they can see the public are, especially when there is direct action, the more the suits will be sweating.
Listening to one of the barristers who assisted the postmasters he said one of the most serious offences that the directors of the post office may have committed is fraud.
Put simply if they knew the people they prosecuted both through criminal and civil cases were innocent yet still took money off them that they knew they didn’t actually owe it raises a question over where the money went and where would it go in the FYE accounts as there was no shortfall or black hole.
The answer was to the P&L account which meant the Post Office overstated its profits and trading performance.
An intriguing turn.
Exactley, she said they had a lot of calls and where logging them all,at least I am trying.
It does not interfere with anything else going on.
Some others here seem to think mouthing of on a watch forum will help.
I'm starting to wonder, if now there has been more publicity, allies of Vennells and co will start to desert the sinking ship. She and her cohorts are becoming exteremly toxic right now.
Yes, we don't like fraudsters here.
I still can't help wondering that if the Coroner's verdicts on the suicides implicated the scandal as a prime cause, then gross negligence manslaughter might be on the cards.
I hope so.
Latest useful update on the Computer Weekly history and background to the whole issue: https://www.computerweekly.com/featu...u-need-to-know
That page is free-to-access, although most of the others it links to need a sign-in.
I haven’t yet found any sort of clear description of the technical background of any of the identified problems with the Horizon system - they’re variously described as some version of errors/bugs/glitches, which usually means that the person writing the article knows the cube root of f-all about IT (BTW I strongly suspect that applies to Vennells). Anyone seen anything better?
https://www.benthamsgaze.org/2021/07...-office-trial/
Fujitsu should not be getting any more contracts either, as they were the facilitator of many of the problems. Having been involved with the implementation of many large IT projects their testing and production processes are extremely poor. To then compound this problem by making system changes and adjustments to cover up bugs and glitches was staggering. Without then supporting the users, they must have lied to the PO and the fact Venables was unsure on the remote access and changes in flight taking place is staggering. There are people lower down in the po who must have know this. It’s seams a massive cover up took place, who knew what is difficult to prove but there certainly should prosecutions from this as it ruined innocent people’s lives!
I would like to think that Fujitsu and post office staff would come forward just to cover their own arses if a criminal investigation happens
Latest tally.
881,367 of 900,000 signatures
She cant hand it back as that would then be her admitting she did wrong.
Is it possible in law to remove it?
I hope so.
That’s fantastic, many thanks.
Very interesting, and clearly explained.
Nobody can reasonably expect the CEO of any significant organisation to be conversant at all times in the detailed working of every process going on within that organisation. They must understand though the principles underlying the working of every important process. I’m sure anyone who’s been in that sort of position will agree with me.
What is absolutely key to being a competent CEO, though, is being sufficiently tuned in to the nitty gritty to spot when something important might be going wrong. Then it is absolutely your responsibility to get up to speed in detail on the relevant processes and/or to get expert and independent advice, and to ask the key questions, and then to do something about it. You’ve got to keep an open mind and not be fobbed off: all sorts of vested interests are always at play.
Vennells 100% failed over the CEO’s responsibility in that last paragraph.
As was shown in various sources, including ITV’s Real Story programme that followed the last of the dramatised shows, the first time she apparently asked for anything remotely like an explanation of what was really going on was immediately before she appeared before the Select Committee, which was maybe 10 years after the scale of the Subpostmaster issues became apparent. Being extremely generous, I’d have given her 12 months after she was appointed as CEO to have asked the questions and set up a proper internal investigation.
Incidentally, after seeing the dramatised SC hearing I thought Zahawi was over-egging his contribution as a steely-eyed interrogator. However, the recording clip shown in the Real Story programme confirms he did push hard.
Apologies if this has been shared before but this is a pretty good rundown of the despicable characters involved and how they've all lined their own pockets since.
https://x.com/flaminhaystacks/status...511528261?s=20
Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
Does the government listen to the people ?
If they think that, owing to the surrounding publicity, it may improve their image, eg Rishi Sunak considers measures:
...More than 700 branch managers were convicted of false accounting, theft and fraud based on faulty software.
Fewer than 100 people have had their convictions quashed.
The prime minister said the government was reviewing options - including stripping the Post Office of its role in the appeal process...
...and especially if it's an election year. After all it's not as though they've had much time to think of this before now...
That's a good link, thanks.
Rishi Sunak..."Obviously it's something that happened a very long time ago in the nineties".
See also Lee Castleton.
See who was appointed head of UK and NI, in 2014...............
The lovely Gillian Keegan's other half..
https://businessandfinance.com/news/...RdCaFHm6H6Nk9A
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/having-h...way-forfeiture
Also this in respect of a petition regarding "Sir" Philip Green :
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/598639
https://petition.parliament.uk/help#standards
Thank you for the factual info.
Hopefully the petition will make those in charge look at it again,those who can remove it.
Now that a million voters have signed I bet politicians will be coming out of the woodwork to say their piece
One minister on Youtube just said that all the calls he had meant something or words to that effect.
A mate's wife certainly used to do something somewhat snr within the legal aid games infrastructure...can't recall her precise wording but it was pretty much regular folks should forget any chance of getting it.
This is a bit hard to watch.
When people say someone is broken it sounds a bit like a cliche.
This woman is broken, it broke my heart watching, its what she doesnt say that gets to you.
The look on her face the eyes.
Th PO even sent their own doctors into hospital to examine her when she was suffering.
No amount of money will compensate her or bring her back to what she was.
The people responsible should be jailed for GBH as much as anything.
No 10 says Sunak would ‘strongly support’ review:
...Downing Street has hinted that it would like the honours forfeiture committee to remove the CBE awarded to Paula Vennells, the former Post Office boss.
Normally, when asked about the prospect of someone being stripped of an honour, No 10 just says it is a matter for this committee, which operates in a relatively secretive manner.
But today No 10 said Rishi Sunak would “strongly support” the committee if it decided to look at revoking Vennells’ CBE in the wake of the Horizon scandal...
So the PM seems to have jumped on the bandwagon, but see:
I rather suspect that they're preparing to throw Vennells to the lions (rightly) in the hope and expectation it'll satiate the torch-wielding mob - and thus get other senior people in the PO and Fujitsu, and most especially the culpable politicians (like Ed "Nothing To See Here" Davey for example), off the hook.
Let's not forget that it's taken a high profile docudrama and a million-signature petition to get these bastards to do anything at-all!
I agree...and let's not forget the Sunak has yet actually to do anything. So far it's "considers measures" and "would support" and I don't read that as a commitment to action.
Venells should be thrown to the lions, but she's not the only one.
I think that the goalposts are a bit slanted.
The mantra is " Wrongly accused when the real culprit was Horizon". Not quite right imho. Horizon did (and does) sort of work, albeit with flaws and glitches that are surely only to be expected in a program of that magnitude.
The real culprit(s) are those who had an unshakeable view that Horizon could do no wrong ergo there was criminality about.
Even at the very outset there were abundant ocurrences of postmasters who, after many years of faultless undisputed manual balancing and returning, suddenly commenced a "life of crime" coincidentally at the exact same time as Horizon was enabled.
There was no desire on the part of the PO to scrutinise the performance of Horizon, nor to devise a dual manual/computer system of checks where apparent problems existed.
The PO was in effect accusing people of wrongdoing even though they could not provide evidence of wrongful intent nor any existence of missing funds save those created by computer program; surely that is not allowable under the UK judicial system?
Blame must lie with all tiers of management from the top down who were in a position to flag possible systemic error but didn't.
And another thing - who is doing the maths on this? Just considering the high-profile victims, when you hear the extent to which their lives have been ruined (those who are still alive to suffer) I don't find it hard to come up with compensation figures with seven digits (no, I am not referring to the pence, only the pounds). Add it up. The financial implication will be immense.
I feel any kind of enquiry into this will take as long as Hillsborough with most all people behind it being truly inform or dead by time it comes to a conclusion.
8ollocks !!
I wouldn't expect a front line transaction and accounting system to be implemented with the magnitude and seriousness of flaws in Horizon.
Then again, I've never been surprised by the lackadaisical attitudes and piss-poor project management, engineering and quality control prevalent and tolerated in IT.
I suspect Fujitsu was aware of what it had built.
Last edited by BillyCasper; 8th January 2024 at 17:31.
Nah, it'll be as short as Partygate and the Covid enquiries. Emails and any incriminating messages will have been unexplainably lost and it'll come to nothing.
Link...the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry website
Exactly the same process employed in the contaminated blood enquiry. Let as many die as possible, and give the ones left a few quid. Result millions of ££ saved.
Deleted
Last edited by 459GMB; 8th January 2024 at 19:19.
The lovely Michael Keegan is also on the board of Centerprise, a Computer firm in Basingstoke who once sponsored the Football Club but then run the club into the ground made the club move to a ground a fraction of the size of the Camrose and with help from the Council got permission to bulldoze and build a carehome on the sit, the saga is on going due to a few people knowing it was wrong and keeping up the fight its a story worth looking at ...
Anyway it seems Mr Keegan doesn't seem to care where the money comes from as long as it does !
Last edited by arthurDALEY; 8th January 2024 at 18:21.
What makes you think any of the sub postmasters want to be associated with a bunch of xenophobic nutcases.
They have just fought for 20 years for injustice in the world and you are suggesting they run for the reform party. Jeez.
"Unwind with a pint or two in our own virtual pub. Friendly banter and clean jokes please and no politics or religion."
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Apologies - have deleted the original comment.
The chap who quoted me will have to similarly edit his post to remove completely though.
The will of the people…where have I heard that before 🤔
I always struggle with how to determine the level of financial compensation when no amount of money can give the victims back their lost years, health etc but it needs to be substantial and the culpable individuals need to be identified, whether in the PO, Fujitsu or Govt, and prosecuted if appropriate to see justice served and to act as a deterrent to others.
As an aside, if a million signatories result in Vennells honour being withdrawn then I look forward to similar petitions about the countless cronies (and half sisters etc!) given gongs in recent years
I look forward to the vile cow being dragged into the dock in handcuffs!
Posting Permissions
