That's ok. ;-)Originally Posted by Montello
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/...orizon-scandal
The reality is, as Panorama reported, that the government are part and parcel of the whole scandal - there were government representatives at the meetings during which plans were made to ensure Fujitsu would escape unscathed.
Quite an upsetting programme to watch really.
I'm struggling to understand how PV's predecessor, one Adam Crozier, seems to have escaped any criticism.
He instigated the whole shebang, and was in post until 2010.
Correct and they specialise in messing up said contracts and then receiving more money for allegedly correcting them, though this seldom happens. It's an old boy's and girl's club and it's very well protected.
I know first hand individuals who worked for Fujitsu ( formerly ICL) during this Horizon software rollout and problems were identified very early on and fed-back right up the management chain but were categorically ignored.
Upper management regularly told lower management that it was not about causing problems for those at the top and that they would do well to start playing golf and frequenting pubs with those at the top rather than constantly identifying problems.
It's an absolute disgrace that they could have that kind of attitude with impunity, but sadly that was exactly what the environment was.
My friend who still works for Fujitsu said he cried when he watched the Panorama episode on this travesty.
Last edited by tango; 28th April 2022 at 11:05.
Will Dido Harding? or any of the shower...
I'll leave it there as we're on hallowed G&D ground.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Isn't the lack of whistle blowers half of the problem? lot's of people knew, but did nothing
I also watched the Panorama doc and it made me cry with anger.
At least Paula has God on her side. The poor bastards whose lives she and her corporation ruined, had no one.
No amount of compensation will right the wrong, but some six-figure numbers not starting with a 1 and a slew of criminal prosecutions of management and certain government officials might go some way to softening the blow.
Absolutely shocking scandal.
I'm with you on that......and lets not forget Alan Leighton - hard man.
B
Last edited by Brian; 30th April 2022 at 10:49.
The Horizon IT system, developed and distributed by Fujitsu Europe who are known for developing and distributing faulty kit...
https://www.theregister.com/2002/09/...abby_handling/
Hmmm, VP of Fujitsu Adam Harris...WUS members surely remember him...
...victim hopes to get home back:
...Mrs Palmer is one of hundreds of sub-postmasters who exposed the wrongdoing but who've been excluded from proper compensation.
However, from today they can now finally apply to a new fund to recover their losses.
The government says it will pay "full and fair" compensation whatever the cost.
"It's taken too long... it's a scandal that's needed righting for a long time," said Kevin Hollinrake, the Post Office Minister, who was appointed last autumn.
He told the BBC the government would put all the victims back to where they were had the mistreatment not occurred...
...Alan Bates...turns down OBE...:
...Alan Bates, who has campaigned relentlessly for over two decades to achieve justice for subpostmasters who were blamed and prosecuted for unexplained accounting shortfalls caused by computer errors, said it would be inappropriate to accept the offer because former Post Office CEO Paula Vennells still holds her CBE, bringing the “whole honours system into disrepute”...
Too late for my friend's dad, who ran the one in the village I used to live in.
Ruined him.
Sure I read somewhere that they will all be taxed on whatever compensation they receive, which if true is an absolute outrage to add to the long string of injustices faced so far.
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Also, surely compensation is what’s added to what they have lost. Meaning that aren’t financially don’t lose out is just a starting point. Then compensation needs to be added for pain, loss of reputation, damaged mental health and for some time in jail.
She should be going to jail.
A truly appalling story, among many appalling stories.
What is happening to Paula Vennells?
So clever my foot fell off.
F-ALL
Ahhhh, Britain.
I can’t even begin to fathom how awful it must have been to have your business and reputation trashed by this debacle.
The compensation would have to go far beyond the financial loss.
How do you compensate someone for decades of reputation damage?
I would think it nigh on impossible to put a financial figure on it, the anguish, stress, loss of reputation, loss of "normal" life, frustration, ANGER etc etc etc and she got a medal, at the very least she should have the medal and any pension benefits taken from her for starters (IMO).
I'm sure a few lawyers could have a right good go at that figure.
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I am only surprised that no-one has taken matters into their own hands, exacting a long and painful revenge.
full and fair "whatever the cost". Does anyone believe this? i don't.
Last edited by johny; 22nd November 2023 at 16:45.
Few lawyers would want to because the fee they now get after government reforms that favoured insurers (the main paying party in litigation) means they need to deduct up to 25% from the damages which could put them in a situation where they get bad press.
Mrs B is a high level clinical negligence lawyer - your hair would stand on end at some of them - and hates having to take money from clients that has been worked out to the penny for their future needs. Unlike the press ‘compo culture’ headlines, the compensation is calculated purely on putting people back in the position they would have been in had the faults not occurred. It most certainly isn’t a windfall.
Come on, they’ve done so well with those impacted by the Windrush scandal…
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/po...115531.article
Some law firms being up front and accepting the govt scheme payments.
I'm sure 'The Reverend Paula Venells' 'CBE' - ex 'Chair of Imperial College NHS Trust' - 'non exec member of The Cabinet Office'
will be judged by her God for the misery she has caused so many.
Staggering this is still up .
https://www.onepostoffice.co.uk/secu...honours-list/#
Full and fair. Yeh right.
A whole career and reputation ruined? Here's £10k, go away. Or, maybe £30k. If you spend enough money and time gathering evidence.
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status...29877271805952
Last edited by Scepticalist; 26th March 2023 at 11:08.
I have every faith in the honourable and upright government keeping their word. LOL
The saga continues. Fujitsu just been awarded anothet 16.5 million to continue running the Horizon system until 2024. Who says crimme doesn't pay?
Unfortunately, I'm not sure they had much choice. I suspect Tata, IBM, Capgemini, Cognizant, Infosys, Fujitsu have many clients by the balls where they have developed and operate, maintain and enhance customer's bespoke strategic mission critical systems.
I came here to say similar. Just a contract extension. Add Airwave/Motorola to that mob. The list of IT projects that are ruinously expensive to extricate from is endless!
The bit that does annoy me greatly however is Fujitsu still being awarded new, unrelated contracts elsewhere in the public and pseudo public sector realm. I'll bet my last pound the PQQ process was used to disqualify some innovative but small, aspiring UK business or consortium that couldn't jump through the (often) artificial hoops they demand. It smells when word is that Fujitsu staff were culpable.
I've worked on too many projects where a company's mission critical systems and our country's acquired knowledge, intellectual capital, jobs and £ have flowed out to some Centre Of Excellence, Global Development Centre or other such misnomer overseas. I think Banks, government departments, private sector companies will find their nuts in vices in future years.
The nadir of my working life was probably responding to public sector PQQs.
This ...
Given how utterly ruinous this has been for some it would be of no surprise if they did ...
https://news.sky.com/story/horizon-i...ffice-12545482
Certainly sounds plausible. It looks like they acquired a fairly fat portfolio of UK government and institutional clients through their acquisition/merge with ICL back in the day.
Although it had significant sales overseas, ICL's mainframe business was dominated by large contracts from the UK public sector, including Post Office Ltd, the Inland Revenue, the Department for Work and Pensions and the Ministry of Defence. It also had a strong market share with UK local authorities and (at that time) nationalised utilities including the water, electricity, and gas boards.
The company [ICL] had an increasingly close relationship with Fujitsu from the early 1980s, culminating in Fujitsu becoming sole shareholder in 1998. ICL was rebranded as Fujitsu in April 2002. The ICL brand is still used by the former Russian joint-venture of the company, founded in 1991.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...puters_Limited
In answer to the title of this thread... doesn't look likely:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...candal-inquiry
So clever my foot fell off.
The whole saga does my head in ... such an awful injustice and "the system" just does not seem able to correct it ...
I agree almost totally, except the system is perfectly able to correct itself, it chooses not to.
AH ... chooses or is crippled by bias protecting the guilty?
Sadly it’s more about being in with the in crowd than anything else.
That's Mick summed up in a single sentence.Instead, Vennells got a CBE, and the rest of the anonymous boss class doubtless joined her in failing upwards on the gravy train.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
So called Baroness Mone,
Dido Harding and God knows how many others.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Unbelievable. How can bonuses be handed out while this tragedy still drags on?
Horizon scandal: Post Office boss to pay back part of bonus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65520699
So clever my foot fell off.
They then wait another month to see if it slips further down the news list. I read today he’s given back 9k. Of his 455k bonus. The hardship he must now face! The sheer fact it’s voluntary to start with is shameful. Meanwhile no one is being held to account for the original crimes.
It is beyond outrageous that these ‘nest-feathering’ PO so-called executives were awarded substantial bonuses simply for supplying the demanded documentary evidence inconveniently highlighting their own incompetence!
What is even more outrageous is our spineless hand-wringing government who choose not to take any meaningful or decisive action on this scandal!
As for Vennells, I will not post my opinion on her as I don’t want a ban from Eddie!
Last edited by KavKav; 6th June 2023 at 06:46.
The more you read about the extent of their knowledge about the shortcomings of the Horizon system and the way they've tried to limit compensation to the bare minimum, the more you realise just how incompetent, uncaring and out of control senior management were.
Prosecutions are required but then that didn't happen when bankers, won't happen with MPs or water company execs so it's not going to happen here.
There's a new episode online of the excellent BBC radio account of the Horizon scandal:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001n8h9
Seems the Post Office continue to play the same games. I particularly enjoyed this quote from an eminent barrister working for postmasters, Paul Marshall: "It's doing the same thing exactly in these compensation schemes. The post office is an institution in which mendacity and lack of identifiable principle run through it like a stick of rock."
I can't help thinking to myself - if only we had someone on the forum who, perchance, has an insight into the management culture at the post office that he could share. I wonder if the above quote could help me recall who that might be?
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
This from me too. What a King Cnut.
The person you are describing would have to be almost entirely lacking a moral compass to the extent that their only defining characteristic would be self-interest.
This is the sort of person to whom the end always justifies the means, and “winning” is all, regardless of collateral damage to others or society as a whole.
A person actively willing to overlook fundamental dishonesty, corruption and incompetence purely because it suited their own selfishness?
I’m not sure such a person would find TZ to be a place they felt comfortable, because such sociopathic tendencies are an anathema to the generally friendly camaraderie, integrity and code of honour by which virtually all members of this esteemed forum operate.
So clever my foot fell off.
But but Corbyn...
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Like Vennells I'm an Anglican priest. It's not a particularly well-paid job and it comes with a lot of trust including handling uncounted cash. If I was so much as suspected of dipping in to the collection plate, fiddling my expenses or misappropriating fees the powers that be would, quite rightly, suspend me. Were it to be proved that I had stolen funds they, again rightly, would throw the book at me.
But millionaire Vennells has faced no sanctions and even her "apology" was mealy-mouthed and, frankly, pretty shit: "I am truly sorry we were unable to find both a solution and a resolution outside of litigation and for the distress this caused."
I feel the same way about her as honest, hardworking police officers must feel towards bent coppers.
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