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Thread: CWC 1980 Fatboy Navigator - Pricing

  1. #1
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    CWC 1980 Fatboy Navigator - Pricing

    Saw this on e-bay today:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CWC-Navig...UAAOSwpflgdfRM

    We all know these are as rare as hens teeth, but is that price realistic?

    Based on recent sales, the answer to that has to be yes, that is the current market price of what these are selling for.

    I am tempted, but thought I would seek options on here first. It will probably sell whilst I'm thinking about it, but good to hear the thoughts of others. I have done WTBs without success for a 1980/1981 Fat Nav.

  2. #2
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Rocking horse poop...
    Itís the most I have seen one go for but find another? Some recent sales have been in this ball park.
    As much as I am a CWC fan boy I could not spend that on one of them.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    Rocking horse poop...
    Itís the most I have seen one go for but find another? Some recent sales have been in this ball park.
    As much as I am a CWC fan boy I could not spend that on one of them.
    The price is the issue, but putting that to one side, what do you think of it. I've owned two 1980 Fat Boys and this looks good and true to me. I have sent the seller a few questions to see if I can get any additional info.

    The overall condition does look superb and maybe to the right buyer, this is the piece to own? I nearly bought that 1980 reissue on SC the other day, this is only a few hundred quid more for as you say, rocking horse poo...

  4. #4
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    Nah! It's overpriced by about £50. But perhaps I could let you have my '81 Fatboy, complete with provenance - issued to me in 1985 and used for Navigational duties - for less - say, £1600?


  5. #5
    Craftsman Euan Begbie's Avatar
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    Is the date the only difference from regular version? Educate me please :)


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  6. #6
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    The price is the issue, but putting that to one side, what do you think of it. I've owned two 1980 Fat Boys and this looks good and true to me. I have sent the seller a few questions to see if I can get any additional info.

    The overall condition does look superb and maybe to the right buyer, this is the piece to own? I nearly bought that 1980 reissue on SC the other day, this is only a few hundred quid more for as you say, rocking horse poo...
    The watch looks fine to me, it is in good condition, my only concern with early G10s and the big money they go for is longevity/ reliability. The movements in these are coming towards the end of their useful life, spares are hard to get as are replacement movements.
    If you canít the part or movement you need you have to substitute and this wrecks the all original nature of the watch. - and the premium you paid.
    I would have thought itís most likely going to be bought be a G10 / CWC specialist collector looking for that particular watch.

    To answer the question on the difference to a standard G10 yes the date is the only difference, that said these were the first year of issue and they are very rare.

  7. #7
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euan Begbie View Post
    Is the date the only difference from regular version? Educate me please :)
    Basically yes, but released in much smaller numbers and it mainly seems to be to RN Navigation Officers rather than the RAF.

    https://chronopedia.club/CWC_G10_navigator

    You could argue the 1981 model owned by Happy Jack above is even rarer than the 1980 as no standard (no date) G10s were issued in 1981 and anyone collecting a run of years would have to buy a Navigator if they could find one.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyJack View Post
    Nah! It's overpriced by about £50. But perhaps I could let you have my '81 Fatboy, complete with provenance - issued to me in 1985 and used for Navigational duties - for less - say, £1600?

    I have read old threads on your watch from years ago when people were suggesting the value to be between £150 and £300 or so. Times have moved on and I think you are now sitting on a serious piece. People are paying £1,500 for 'any old' Fat Nav on e-bay, so what would a 1981 model with Provence be worth.

    If you ever consider selling, I would write a few sheets up on the watch and an outline of your duties whilst wearing it as an issued watch (obviously staying within the OSA). Dig out a few photos of you in uniform wearing the watch and consign to a proper military watch auction and god only knows what it would fetch. I would suggest a lot more than £1,500.

    Milsubs and Comex etc that come with such Provence (the back story) and bought directly from the person it was issued to are always going to be more desirable and therefore expensive than a loose Watch with no history.

  9. #9
    Craftsman Euan Begbie's Avatar
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    Thanks guys


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I have read old threads on your watch from years ago when people were suggesting the value to be between £150 and £300 or so. Times have moved on and I think you are now sitting on a serious piece. People are paying £1,500 for 'any old' Fat Nav on e-bay, so what would a 1981 model with Provence be worth.

    If you ever consider selling, I would write a few sheets up on the watch and an outline of your duties whilst wearing it as an issued watch (obviously staying within the OSA). Dig out a few photos of you in uniform wearing the watch and consign to a proper military watch auction and god only knows what it would fetch. I would suggest a lot more than £1,500.

    Milsubs and Comex etc that come with such Provence (the back story) and bought directly from the person it was issued to are always going to be more desirable and therefore expensive than a loose Watch with no history.
    Interesting thought. Funny to think out might be worth as much as that when I had to pay around £20 in 1986 for losing it. Annoying, but losing the Zeiss 7x50 binoculars in the pic below would have cost around £1000, and the sighting device on the compass would have been several hundred. I had 4 sets of binos and 4 of the latter on my charge, along with several sextants, a night vision scope and a load of other expensive stuff, all of which I was personally at risk for. Ever wondered why captains go down with their ships?


  11. #11
    Craftsman Euan Begbie's Avatar
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    Cool pic!


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    The watch looks fine to me, it is in good condition, my only concern with early G10s and the big money they go for is longevity/ reliability. The movements in these are coming towards the end of their useful life, spares are hard to get as are replacement movements.
    If you canít the part or movement you need you have to substitute and this wrecks the all original nature of the watch. - and the premium you paid.
    I would have thought itís most likely going to be bought be a G10 / CWC specialist collector looking for that particular watch.

    To answer the question on the difference to a standard G10 yes the date is the only difference, that said these were the first year of issue and they are very rare.
    Thank you, that's an interesting and well balanced arguement. If these were automatics with an ETA movement, replacing individual parts wouldn't be so much of a concern. However, a Quartz movement packing up is a completely different scenario that leaves the owner in a no win situation.

    Even if you could buy replacement (identical?) movements, changing it is surely just as bad as putting in a more modern version that does the same thing. Both destroy the originality of the Watch, whereas any automatic going in for a service is expected to have several internal components replaced due to wear etc.

    Three years ago prices were around the £450 mark for a Fat Nav and at that level I think it would still be worth the punt. That's probably why the standard 1980 G10s selling for between £350 and £450 at present are still popular and a good deal. Paying £1,500 or more is another level altogether and if you factor in the risk of the movement packing up, it makes it less attractive. Clearly the parts, dial, hands, case etc would have some value, but anyone buying them and using them is just creating a Frankenstein watch.

    I would still like a Fat Nav, but I think pricing has ended that particular dream. Any owners will rightly see what's going on in the market place and want top dollar for theirs.

    Perhaps they should sell up before the movement packs up.

    So, what we really need is an original 1980 CWC Automatic. If I can remember where I left that spare £15k I had, I'll go looking

  13. #13
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post

    So, what we really need is an original 1980 CWC Automatic. If I can remember where I left that spare £15k I had, I'll go looking
    A 1980 diver is my grail, it’s a birth year watch, rarer than a milsub, looks great and has a real history.
    But for some reason I have a mental block at paying that for a watch (any watch). There are a couple I know that are for sale (80/81) and yet I will not bite the bullet (so to speak). Without doubt the autos will be easier to keep going in the long run.
    Early plastic parts in quartz have a tendency to go brittle and break a 0.2p bit of plastic could render a 15k collectors watch knackered.
    I did pay a lot less for a 89 issued divers watch last year and that has become a firm favourite, even though it’s quartz and I could potentially face the issues I wrote about this morning!!!
    I have a Seiko Gen 2 that runs perfectly, my father has the same watch that has been through 2 movements. Seiko no longer support them so between us my father and I now have a stash of spares for them. It’s one of the things you need to do I guess.

    Conversely I have just easily sourced a hack lever for my 76 issued (ETA manual wind) W10. Its a known week point on these but the parts are out there and can be replaced.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 19th April 2021 at 14:38.

  14. #14
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    The e-bay seller has knocked £100 off his price - now £1,550.00

    Wonder how low he will go before someone panics and bites.

  15. #15
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    Makes me wonder what to do with mine really


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley637 View Post

    Makes me wonder what to do with mine really


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    Sell it to me. I did try to buy it three years ago.

  17. #17
    Master goregasm's Avatar
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    I saw this too Ken..

    Crazy pricing really, I know they're rare but does that justify such a price tag? I note that the seller mentions a previous eBay auction which finished for about £100 less than his, so the price must've been right for someone unless they were 'caught in the moment' during bidding and got a bit enthusiastic.

    I paid under £300 for mine about 5 years ago (which I thought was a premium at the time) so to see sellers asking these kind of amounts is unreal. Saying that, the prices of issued divers and chronos has shot up also.



    EDIT - i'll also add this, I got a battered non-runner off ebay for less than £100 in 2017, asked on here for advice on getting it spruced up and decided it would've been more hassle that its worth;

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...208-CWC-Repair

    Stuck it back on eBay and it sold for near £350!
    Last edited by goregasm; 20th April 2021 at 14:04.

  18. #18
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goregasm View Post
    I saw this too Ken..

    Crazy pricing really, I know they're rare but does that justify such a price tag? I note that the seller mentions a previous eBay auction which finished for about £100 less than his, so the price must've been right for someone unless they were 'caught in the moment' during bidding and got a bit enthusiastic.

    I paid under £300 for mine about 5 years ago (which I thought was a premium at the time) so to see sellers asking these kind of amounts is unreal. Saying that, the prices of issued divers and chronos has shot up also.
    These have clearly risen in price and £300 or so 5 years ago would have been right. I was discussing buying one 3 years ago and that was about the £450 mark. I think now they have climbed in value, but not to £1,500. I would say a nice lose watch is nearer to high hundreds these days.

    I think Happy Jack's 1981 Fat Nav would carry a premium as it was issued to him and if he ever sold that he would have a bundle of provenance and images on active service wearing the Watch. Collectors would pay extra for that.

  19. #19
    About 12 years ago, I started collecting CWC G10 watches with an emphasis on Fatboys up to 1982. I was also have a couple of Precista Fatboys as well.
    Back then the Fatboys were quite easy to get hold of and I started off with an ‘82 then a couple of ‘80s then searched and found a couple of ‘80 navigators all of which which are still running very well. I changed the plexi glasses retaining the satin tension rings. I tend to keep the older watches in the watch box as the circuit boards are delicate mentioned above and I have had one of the Precistas pack up recently. My navigators are serials 032/80 and 292/80. Scary the prices these seem to go for. I started the collection as I could not afford to keep buying Rolex Sports and I still “needed” to keep on collecting.
    My daily wearer is a Navigator from 1994.
    There was a batch of these sold on EBay some years ago all stamped 1994 with consecutive serial numbers where the date stamp has been stamped sideways near the crown. Now it might be some sort of a Frankenwatch as there has been milling to remove something and the 5417362 has been added. Maybe a special batch or maybe someone trying to make a few £. Either way it is a reliable friend.
    If there is an easy way to post some photos on here I’ll share with you.
    If anyone knows where to buy a replacement circuit for the 1982 Precista Fatboy I’d be very grateful to hear about it as the rest of the watch is excellent.




    https://ibb.co/z41ZKJH
    Last edited by PeterT; 7th May 2021 at 08:48.

  20. #20
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    https://chronopedia.club/CWC_G10#1982_Precista

    The movement info can be found here, to be honest I have no idea where you might find one over and above the standard sources
    eBay
    Cousins
    Etc.

  21. #21
    That is an excellent reference, thank you.
    I have managed to upload some images but Iím afraid you have to click on the links!

  22. #22
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Are you a member of MWR?
    If not maybe join, there are lots of people there that maybe able to help you source the movement, failing that they will be able to suggest a drop in substitute that may tide you over whilst you search.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    If anyone knows where to buy a replacement circuit for the 1982 Precista Fatboy Iíd be very grateful to hear about it as the rest of the watch is excellent.
    I'm guessing the easiest route is to buy a donor watch. Clearly how much you are willing to spend on one is up to you. This listing on e-bay has an 82 Fatboy included in it. It's a bit rough and the crown is missing, but the circuit board might be okay.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154435925...MAAOSwmNlgjZWG

    I understand that there are modern replacement Quartz movements which will power the Watch, but it might be worth having a word with Olivier (Olli of this parish) to see if he could source one for you, but again I think that's likely to come from a donor Watch rather than someone having a few NOS spares.

    I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a Precista 82 Fatboy and of course anything from 1981 which rarely appear for sale these days.

  24. #24
    Thanks for the link to the sale, however none are runners and so could be a waste of money.
    This thread has prompted me to buy all of my CWC / Precista collection new Batteries. I donít want a leak in one of the Fatboys!

  25. #25
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Some collectors take the batteries out when not in use in order to avoid this issue. They pop one in when they want to wear the watch. An idea I am thinking of adopting as it will help reduce any wear on an old watch.

    Are you sure it's the circuit board. Might be worth sending it to Olli for a full service, might be something mechanical below the board.

  26. #26
    I had asked about the battery in or out a while ago and at the time, the general consensus at the time was that it was better to leave it running. Are there new thoughts on this?

  27. #27
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I have seen differing posts on the subject. Clearly a battery is not going to leak whilst it is live, so it depends how often you look at your watches and when a battery dies it is not going to leak immediately. Therefore my conclusion was that I'm going to leave the batteries in and the watches running and as soon as a watch stops remove the battery and only replace it with the correct battery from Silvermans rather than something from the local discount store.

    Clearly for people with larger collections of these watches, the types who put together a run of years or a particular branch of the forces for example who don't get to wear each watch on a regular basis I would suggest leaving the battery out is probably a good idea for them.

    There are clearly merits to both sides of the arguement depending on the size and regular usage of your collection.

  28. #28
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting question. What is the absolute top end price for a rare G10.

    I was offered a 1981 Non Lume Fat Nav (issued to Navigation Officers on Nuclear Submarines). There were only 11 of these watches known to have been issued in 1981 and only 2 or 3 tops are currently known about. The numbers, plots and hands are all painted white and there is no circled T as no tritium is used. It is understood that tritium kicks off the radioactive detectors on board the sub.

    A stunning watch which I would love to own and basically as rare as it gets for a G10 - so what would it be worth.

    This year two 1980 Fat Navs have sold on e-bay for a little over £1,500.00 each, but this '81 watch is a step up on both of those so is logically worth more.

    Photo for anyone who has never seen one:



    And for comparision here's my 1980 Navigator:



    Has to be said, they would make one hell of a pair...
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 5th June 2021 at 19:29.

  29. #29
    That is a fascinating watch which would go very well in a CWC collection but that is a steep price. My worry is that at any time, the circuit can break down and finding a replacement is virtually impossible unless you have a donor watch. I used to look out for bashed up fat boys that were still running for this purpose but now my spares are all used up.
    I took my broken Precista into a watch mender in Stratford and that is all they could recommend as well. So if you pay steep money for something that is readily fixable it is maybe more bearable but this might be a worry.
    However, Iíd love to have seen the watch in person!!

  30. #30
    Master Tetlee's Avatar
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    The submarine non lume G10 is probably one of the coolest watches there is for me, that's a very hefty price tag but these buggers genuinely are as rare as hens teeth, and just look at it!

    If I had the disposable income, I would. But I don't so I'll never have that dilemma. Go on, live the dream!

  31. #31
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    My worry is that at any time, the circuit can break down and finding a replacement is virtually impossible unless you have a donor watch. I used to look out for bashed up fat boys that were still running for this purpose but now my spares are all used up.
    I took my broken Precista into a watch mender in Stratford and that is all they could recommend as well. So if you pay steep money for something that is readily fixable it is maybe more bearable but this might be a worry.
    I have recently had this conversation with Olli of this parish, the go to guy for any kind of work on G10s. I had sent him my 1980 Fatboy which still had the original module and the Watch was keeping good time, but when Olivier tested the module the consumption rate was 12 microamp when it should be nearer to 2. The watch was working fine, but the battery was being consumed at 6 times the rate it should be. The module needed changing.

    There was no suggestion of changing the movement, but treating the module as a consumable like many parts in many different types of watches. You wouldn't keep a car for 41 years and insist that the oil and spark plugs were never changed. This is the kind of originality discussion that can divide opinion.

    The conclusion was that Olivier had access to a NOS module and would fit it to the watch. The old original module would be returned to me to keep, but it is unlikely to ever be used. It also begs the question, what is the difference in putting in a NOS module against say buying another donor watch, removing the module and putting it in your watch. Neither are original to your watch, but the NOS module won't have lived a hard life and is more likely to enhance the longevity of your watch.

    The watch came back today from a full service and is purring like a pussy cat.











    Personally, I would send your Precista Fatboy down to Olli for similar treatment, he will turn it back into a new watch without compromising on originality.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 2nd June 2021 at 14:24.

  32. #32
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetlee View Post
    The submarine non lume G10 is probably one of the coolest watches there is for me, that's a very hefty price tag but these buggers genuinely are as rare as hens teeth, and just look at it!

    If I had the disposable income, I would. But I don't so I'll never have that dilemma. Go on, live the dream!
    It is a tough one for sure, but I have been thinking about it over the last week. I did send the seller a fresh PM today, but from experience once you upset a military watch seller they are an unforgiving bunch.

    I have leant the hard way that the easiest thing to do is just say yes to everything, don't challenge or question anything and get the cash to them as quickly as you can.

    I'll see how it goes.
    Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 3rd June 2021 at 15:03.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I have recently had this conversation with Olli of this parish, the go to guy for any kind of work on G10s. I had sent him my 1980 Fatboy which still had the original module and the Watch was keeping good time, but when Olivier tested the module the consumption rate was 12 microamp when it should be nearer to 2. The watch was working fine, but the battery was being consumed at 6 times the rate it should be. The module needed changing.

    There was no suggestion of changing the movement, but treating the module as a consumable like many parts in many different types of watches. You wouldn't keep a car for 41 years and insist that the oil and spark plugs were never changed. This is the kind of originality discussion that can divide opinion.

    The conclusion was that Olivier had access to a NOS module and would fit it to the watch. The old original module would be returned to me to keep, but it is unlikely to ever be used. It also begs the question, what is the difference in putting in a NOS module against say buying another donor watch, removing the module and putting it in your watch. Neither are original to your watch, but the NOS module won't have lived a hard life and is more likely to enhance the longevity of your watch.

    The watch came back today from a full service and is purring like a pussy cat..
    Hi Wallasey Runner,

    I think you have done the right thing here. Please can you give me a link to Ollie and Iíll contact him to get my Precista back in action.

    It would be worth sending him my 2x1980 Navigators for a service too afterwards. If he has access to NOS modules then the worry about these watches might be over!!

    Cheers,

    Peter

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