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Thread: Anyone Drive a Leccy Car Without a Driveway?

  1. #1

    Anyone Drive a Leccy Car Without a Driveway?

    I get a car allowance from work, and it feels like with the current generous taxation policy, they are almost giving the leccy cars away.

    Itís a salary sacrifice scheme, and given the deductions are from gross salary and BIK is 1%/2%/2%/2% over the next 4 years, it is a no brainier and much cheaper than running my 10+ year old V70.

    Iím in the market for a VW ID.3.

    However, I live on a fairly busy residential road and rarely get parking space outside my house, and I donít have a driveway.

    Anyone else running a leccy car without a driveway and can comment on the practicalities, and if it is feasible? Or is it just too much of a pain in the arse with battery charging worry?

    I notice I donít even qualify for a grant for a charge point as I donít have a driveway.

    I did look at PHEVs, but to get the fantastic BIK deal the car need to have a range of >130 miles on battery, but they donít exist in the market.

    This would be our only car, so no backup ICE car.

  2. #2
    Master
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    If you can't park outside your own house I'd say say it's a non-starter as you'll be in a constant state of range paranoia as you try to decide if you've got enough charge to get to your destination. The cost of public charging is also way higher than doing it at home on one of the smart EV charge rates from suppliers like Octopus.

    Some councils have approved the running of charge cables across the pavement but it needs to be a direct route, not running 50 yards down the street.

  3. #3
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    This does help the OP but we're in the same position. We'd entertain the idea of an electric car (Mrs MCH is keener than me) but realistically can't even think about it without some kind of infrastructure revolution. Where this will leave us in a decade or so as petrol/diesel fuelled cars are phased out I don't know.

    In fact I wonder if it will be possible before we get autonomous vehicles? I can see a scenario where I arrive home, park as near as I can, go home and tell my car to go and get itself charged at some point in the night returning at the time my alarm clock's set for or when there's a space outside my front door (whichever is sooner).
    Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 8th April 2021 at 11:04.

  4. #4
    Master
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    I run an EV but do have a drive etc. It's definitely doable if you have public chargers around you but I would imagine it would be a bit of a pain in the arse.

    One of the best things about an EV is just coming home and plugging it in every other day so it's always ready in the morning.

    That being said I don't do big miles day to day so I haven't plugged mine in since Friday and its fine.

  5. #5
    Can you charge at work? Otherwise under road charging is apparently on the way.

  6. #6
    A mate has a Tesla without a drive. He's in inner London and drives to the super chargers every 1-3 weeks depending on usage. He's near three of them so quite convenient. Not sure I'd be up for it personally but it works for him.

  7. #7
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    I was recently chatting to a guy who has had a 24kwhr Leaf for four years and only ever used public charging. He lives in a second floor flat. His commute was 50 miles per day.

    As the ID3 has a much larger battery, it will probably only need charging once or twice per week. It should be doable, particularly if you take advantage of the free (but slower) chargers at many places. Tesco, for example, seem to be putting in free Pod-Point chargers at most of their stores.

  8. #8
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Can you charge at work? Otherwise under road charging is apparently on the way.
    Speaking for myself, I could charge at work but only when I go back to working in the office.
    It's free as well and could work quite well for us - work is actually walking distance for me (and I normally walk unless I'm going somewhere straight afterwards). I'm not entirely sure how work would feel about this but I could... take an EV into work, charge it for free on the day my wife works from home, then walk to work for the rest of the week while my wife commutes for free using my work's electricity.
    Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 8th April 2021 at 11:23.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Speaking for myself, I could charge at work but only when I go back to working in the office.
    It's free as well and could work quite well for us - work is actually walking distance for me (and I normally walk unless I'm going somewhere straight afterwards). I'm not entirely sure how work would feel about this but I could... take an EV into work, charge it for free on the day my wife works from home, then walk to work for the rest of the week while my wife commutes for free using my work's electricity.
    Is this the model equivalent of stealing pens?.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  10. #10
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Is this the modern equivalent of stealing pens?.
    Possibly. I haven't even started to think about it seriously yet and I know we have to register with site security to use the service. I'd check at that point if there was any expectation that it was primarily for the employee's commuting.

    Other complications include:
    • me not currently working at work
    • her not currently commuting to her office
    • the inevitability of our work schedules clashing
    • that if I was offered early retirement at the next re-org I'd seriously consider it

  11. #11
    Master
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    There are couple of houses that I see on my dog walk, that charge their cars overnight with cables across the footpath, for me there are two things that could go wrong.

    1 Scallywags unplugging the cable
    2 Liability if someone tripped over the cable.

  12. #12
    Master Omegary's Avatar
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    I was led to believe that extensive use of fast or superchargers was very bad for the batteries in the long run. Happy to be corrected as always though.

    Cheers,
    Gary

  13. #13
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    There are couple of houses that I see on my dog walk, that charge their cars overnight with cables across the footpath, for me there are two things that could go wrong.

    1 Scallywags unplugging the cable
    2 Liability if someone tripped over the cable.
    type 2 cables, which are the vast majority now, lock while in use and can be set to lock while vehicle doors are locked regardless.

    Number 2 is the problem. Some councils are fine with appropriate cable management and due diligence and others say no and that your going to kill everyone!!

    I'm in a very similar position and have bought a couple of low profile heavy rubber cable protector ramps. My council have no guidance but I'm using them to test the neighbours reaction before deciding wether or not to self fund a fixed charger installation.

    Better to ask for forgiveness than permission hahaha.

  14. #14
    Craftsman ozzyb123's Avatar
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    Youíll be fine without home charging. There are fast chargers everywhere and even the most expensive is cheaper than fossil.

    It may take 5% more planning versus fossil fuel but Iím sure you can manage that!


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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegary View Post
    I was led to believe that extensive use of fast or superchargers was very bad for the batteries in the long run. Happy to be corrected as always though.

    Cheers,
    Gary
    It is but if it's funded from a company car allowance I'd imagine it will be leased so he won't keep it long enough to see the impact I'd expect

  16. #16
    Journeyman
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    Our council has installed chargers in lamp posts on the street to help with this issue. Maybe have a word with your local councillor?

  17. #17
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wigdog View Post
    Our council has installed chargers in lamp posts on the street to help with this issue. Maybe have a word with your local councillor?
    Interesting. How does the lamp post know which car it's charging i.e. who to bill?

    Still not ideal for us as we only have lamp posts on one side of the street and the parking is all on the other side.

  18. #18
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Interesting. How does the lamp post know which car it's charging i.e. who to bill?
    I haven't looked at the details as I don't have one! I think it's like a parking meter-all done through an app.

  19. #19
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    Interesting. How does the lamp post know which car it's charging i.e. who to bill?
    Apps or RFID cards.

  20. #20
    Master
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    I thought that if you had a dual fuel (electric/petrol) car you didn't ned a charging point as an hour running on petrol fully charged an empty battery. Have I got that wrong?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I thought that if you had a dual fuel (electric/petrol) car you didn't ned a charging point as an hour running on petrol fully charged an empty battery. Have I got that wrong?
    The idea is if you live a short distance to work, say 20 miles you only use the battery for the commute and charge each night thus reducing running costs and helping the environment, petrol engine is back up for long journeys or if you need more power

  22. #22
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I thought that if you had a dual fuel (electric/petrol) car you didn't ned a charging point as an hour running on petrol fully charged an empty battery. Have I got that wrong?
    Yes Mick, youíve got it wrong.

    Toyota calling their cars ďself charging hybridsĒ was designed to confuse consumers into thinking that their inferior hybrids with tiny batteries, were somehow better than plug in hybrids (with larger but not large batteries) or full electric vehicles.

    A non plug in hybrid will generally go about three miles on electric which has been generated by a combination of braking and engine surplus energy.
    A plug in hybrid is somewhat better and will generally go up to about 30 miles on a full charge. Thatís potentially enough for the daily commute with the engine available for longer journeys. The downside is youíre carrying two propulsion systems with the associated cost and complication.

  23. #23
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe1978 View Post
    type 2 cables, which are the vast majority now, lock while in use and can be set to lock while vehicle doors are locked regardless.

    Number 2 is the problem. Some councils are fine with appropriate cable management and due diligence and others say no and that your going to kill everyone!!

    I'm in a very similar position and have bought a couple of low profile heavy rubber cable protector ramps. My council have no guidance but I'm using them to test the neighbours reaction before deciding wether or not to self fund a fixed charger installation.

    Better to ask for forgiveness than permission hahaha.
    Did you ask your house insurers if your Public Liabity cover extended to cover someone tripping over the cable?

    Actually reading further it's possible it's covered by your car insurance.
    Last edited by Mr Pointy; 8th April 2021 at 18:04.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Did you ask your house insurers if your Public Liabity cover extended to cover someone tripping over the cable?
    What about "tripping up" scooter riders?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    What about "tripping up" scooter riders?
    Iíd call that a public service

  26. #26
    In the OPís situation I wouldnít even consider it - cables running across the pavement sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I used to live in London on a street with no parking, and unless you parked outside your house on Friday night and didnít move it all week youíd never get it anywhere near your own house! - and surely thereíll be a local idiot/ drunkard whoíll decide itís fun to mess with the cables/damage or swing on them? Iíd rather wait a few years until early adopters iron out all the wrinkles (of which there appear to be many). Since moving from London we now have a drive and garage but there are very few chargers in our area - however in 18 months or so when I change the car, I will look at the EV option as it probably suits our driving habits. For urban areas without off street parking I canít see a clear solution. I know people talk about Ďchargers in the road surfaceí but how long until that will happen? Resurface every side street to build in chargers? Wake me up in 2040!


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  27. #27
    Craftsman
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    My wife has started talking about this as a possibility to replace her golf sometime in the future.
    We live down a long pathway tucked away in a really old part of town so there no chance while weíre living here.
    Me, I just bought a 3 litre diesel (sorry)

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    If you can't park outside your own house I'd say say it's a non-starter as you'll be in a constant state of range paranoia as you try to decide if you've got enough charge to get to your destination. The cost of public charging is also way higher than doing it at home on one of the smart EV charge rates from suppliers like Octopus.

    Some councils have approved the running of charge cables across the pavement but it needs to be a direct route, not running 50 yards down the street.
    Totally agree


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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweepinghand View Post
    Totally agree


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well I have done a bit of research since I posted.

    Recharging off mains can be very expensive, e.g. 40p kWh at my local Shell garage

    But, I have found that if I were to pay £7.85 per month with BP Pulse, the network of fast chargers are mostly around 15p kWh, similar to residential tariffs. Itís even cheaper or free for some non-fast chargers.

    I have a bank of three 50kW fast chargers at a hotel 1.5 miles from me that charge 15p/kWh with the monthly subscription. When I looked about 8pm one evening they were all free according to the app.

    Probably means the odd evening heading up to the hotel and waiting around for 40 mins to get an 80% charge.

    I am starting to think this is doable.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Well I have done a bit of research since I posted.

    Recharging off mains can be very expensive, e.g. 40p kWh at my local Shell garage

    But, I have found that if I were to pay £7.85 per month with BP Pulse, the network of fast chargers are mostly around 15p kWh, similar to residential tariffs. Itís even cheaper or free for some non-fast chargers.

    I have a bank of three 50kW fast chargers at a hotel 1.5 miles from me that charge 15p/kWh with the monthly subscription. When I looked about 8pm one evening they were all free according to the app.

    Probably means the odd evening heading up to the hotel and waiting around for 40 mins to get an 80% charge.

    I am starting to think this is doable.
    t

    Until everyone else has the same idea?

  31. #31
    Like I say, Iíll leave the Ďearly adoptersí to take their chances and see what happens. I got burned by Betamax then minidisc, so it m not taking any chances! :)


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  32. #32
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Well I have done a bit of research since I posted....

    I have a bank of three 50kW fast chargers at a hotel 1.5 miles from me that charge 15p/kWh with the monthly subscription. When I looked about 8pm one evening they were all free according to the app.

    Probably means the odd evening heading up to the hotel and waiting around for 40 mins to get an 80% charge.

    I am starting to think this is doable.
    Any fuel savings are going to have to be offset against the hotel bar bills ;-)

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    Any fuel savings are going to have to be offset against the hotel bar bills ;-)
    15% discount on beverages according to the app. Could be and excuse for a cheeky charging pint.

  34. #34
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Well I have done a bit of research since I posted.

    Recharging off mains can be very expensive, e.g. 40p kWh at my local Shell garage

    But, I have found that if I were to pay £7.85 per month with BP Pulse, the network of fast chargers are mostly around 15p kWh, similar to residential tariffs. Itís even cheaper or free for some non-fast chargers.

    I have a bank of three 50kW fast chargers at a hotel 1.5 miles from me that charge 15p/kWh with the monthly subscription. When I looked about 8pm one evening they were all free according to the app.

    Probably means the odd evening heading up to the hotel and waiting around for 40 mins to get an 80% charge.

    I am starting to think this is doable.
    Definitely doable. Maybe you could push the car to the charging point too - few more pennies saved.

  35. #35
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Yeah no worries, just get a diesel generator; it will likely fit in the boot, leave it running over night to charge up and Bobs your uncle. Best of all, no use of the national grid.


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  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    Definitely doable. Maybe you could push the car to the charging point too - few more pennies saved.
    You have lost me on that one, but thanks for your strange comment anyway.

  37. #37
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    This all depends on your motoring pattern and daily mileage.

    I will be having chargers installed at our offices next month and I then think it will be rarely that I will use the charger at home. We also have rapid chargers opposite the office which I have used occasionally and although a faff it is as easy as the old filling station regime, but nothing is as easy and straightforward as the Tesla SC network.

    Personally as a company car for both the business and me personally it is a no brainier, 6 months and 6,000 miles in the electric cost was £251.00 and my home tariff is pretty standard so could have been a lot less.

    Not sure about fast charging buggering EV batteries, never heard that one, well with Tesla.

    Pitch

  38. #38
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    It has been documented that constant rapid charging can reduce the life of the battery.

    It has also been documented that the at the average life span of a car (ten years) the average battery degradation is less than ten percent.

    People do get hung up over battery life and replacement costs but it really is a non issue. Most car batteries will go on to be used in other applications after its life powering motor vehicles.

  39. #39
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Did you ask your house insurers if your Public Liabity cover extended to cover someone tripping over the cable?

    Actually reading further it's possible it's covered by your car insurance.
    In short, No.
    I intend protecting the cable and there will be no loose trip hazard. How many people consult for hoovering their car or the window cleaners who trail hosepipes over the street?
    It's not a fixed cable and is removed when not in use... That's my outlook.

    Joe

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by joe1978 View Post
    In short, No.
    I intend protecting the cable and there will be no loose trip hazard. How many people consult for hoovering their car or the window cleaners who trail hosepipes over the street?
    It's not a fixed cable and is removed when not in use... That's my outlook.

    Joe
    Difference is thereís usually someone present, something clearly going on and itís not usually dark when vacuuming a car

  41. #41
    Master
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    This might be of interest/use to the op


  42. #42
    Craftsman
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    Both our cars are EVs but we have off street parking with charging point. Iím not sure I would get one just yet if we had to park on the street. It very much depends on the availability of public charge points and number of other EV drivers in your local area though. This week we have been travelling around Suffolk and Norfolk, with a trip down to West Sussex too and clocked up over 600 miles relying on public charge points. It takes some planning and a bit of luck sometimes to find suitable places to charge. We found a 50kw charger in Suffolk that you didnít need to pay to use and was always available when we went there so if you lived locally to that an EV would be ideal!


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  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by stuie-t View Post
    Both our cars are EVs but we have off street parking with charging point. Iím not sure I would get one just yet if we had to park on the street. It very much depends on the availability of public charge points and number of other EV drivers in your local area though. This week we have been travelling around Suffolk and Norfolk, with a trip down to West Sussex too and clocked up over 600 miles relying on public charge points. It takes some planning and a bit of luck sometimes to find suitable places to charge. We found a 50kw charger in Suffolk that you didnít need to pay to use and was always available when we went there so if you lived locally to that an EV would be ideal!


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    A free 50KWh charger is like finding a New AD Daytona at list price. 😅😅

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