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Thread: Porsche Centre damaged my car... Updated with the outcome

  1. #101
    Porsche U.K. should oversee this is resolved to your benefit

    Iíd be pushing for additional compensation in the form of a free service fir each vehicle (clearly not at Leeds) for the future or some other form of paper benefit

    Iíve heard some tales but this.... unreal


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  2. #102
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweepinghand View Post
    Porsche U.K. should oversee this is resolved to your benefit

    Iíd be pushing for additional compensation in the form of a free service fir each vehicle (clearly not at Leeds) for the future or some other form of paper benefit

    Iíve heard some tales but this.... unreal


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    I have no doubt you would be asking for something free which you could flog on Sales Corner.
    #plantpot

  3. #103
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    What?

    They're still not calling back when they say they will?

    That is ridiculous. Any old tinpot garage returns calls. It's the 101 of service.

    Something weird is going on. They can't possibly hang on to HNW clients like this. Either you're being singled out for bad service or they're losing clients left right and centre.

    I would start charging them for your time.

    Work out how much you earn for your commissions per hour. Back calculate it to the start of this mess. Then charge them. Tell them you'll be charging them for all the time it has taken you to chase them and all the time you've spent mitigating their mistakes.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by adigra View Post
    I have definitely learned my lesson.
    You weren't to know how this would unfold. You may be thinking that you could/should have contacted Porsche sooner than you did however it is the dealer that has put you in this situation, it's not of your making.

    It sounds like Porsche themselves are taking this seriously and I hope that they conclude this to a satisfactory manner for you, in the mean time look upon the situation as being one day gone, one day closer to getting them back - easier said than done, granted.

  5. #105
    Have they mentioned the cost of all of this? They have had your cars for a long time and their hourly rate is huge


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  6. #106
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    I think you need a one to one with the general manager of the company - not just the dealership manager.
    In these covid times you could also bring Porsche UK customer service into the call, Teams, Zoom
    No holding back & let them have it head on. ( use your social media following etc as clout & don’t be afraid to out them)
    The reason you see ‘specialists’ is because the main dealers are only interested in the bread & butter servicing - including the computer says you need this & that.
    The specialists are usually the guys who worked on the analog cars who are no longer needed in a digital world, these guys have the knowledge & do not need a printed sheet to diagnose problems.
    Good luck & pucker up for the bill, the gold plated charges are going to be serious!

  7. #107
    Master village's Avatar
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    This has really been terrible service.
    I know you were reluctant to do so earlier in the thread but I really think that you have been more than patient and should now start to deploy the nuclear options.....use the threat of your social media following and your contacts. Shake the top of the tree. As mentioned,invoice them for your wasted time and energy.

    Good luck.

  8. #108
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    I havenít made a study of the demographic spread of Adiís general social media followers but Iíd counsel a degree of caution before going to town on this dealership, even though they clearly deserve it. Iíd just be a bit concerned about a possible backlash on the basis of ďrich manís toysĒ and ďfirst world problemsĒ. It shouldnít be the case but the court of social media can be fickle.

  9. #109
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    ^^^ A lot depends on how you post about it, if you scream, shout and rubbish the dealership (even though it's probably deserved) then that could apply. If you post that you're disappointed with the service you've received and stick to detailing the facts I'd hope any social media backlash would be minimised

  10. #110
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    This is not the way to right the wrongs. If you want satisfaction arm yourself with a litigator.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  11. #111
    I really appreciate the considered responses. It has helped hugely over the last week, especially as, aside from my wife who is as frustrated as I am, I haven't really had the opportunity to get some perspective from anyone else.

    I believe that the dealership are hugely behind overall, but they are being very vague about what the issues actually are with finishing my cars. I made a list of jobs needed, and it is laughably short to the point that it's absurd. These are literally all of the jobs needed to finish the 930, but for some reason every time I ask about any of them it's like I am asking them to build a nuclear reactor.

    -Small scratch in the leather on the dashboard where the old man missed the ignition and scratched it with the key
    -Two sill trim pieces which hold down the carpet (he bent and scratched one of them getting in and out of the car, but they are replacing both so they match), they are held down by screws and are in stock.
    -The old man ripped off the engine insulation, another stock part to be fitted
    -Both rear wheels to have scratches fixed (surface scratches in the rims on both sides, I've been unable to figure out how he did them, but I have photos of the wheels from before he had it, and they weren't there)
    -Test drive the car

    I just spoke to the service advisor again and he says he can't promise to have it done next week, but will try.

    The absurdity is that it took a week to bond a rear view mirror to the new windscreen. That is not an exaggeration, it took a whole week.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by draftsmann View Post
    I havenít made a study of the demographic spread of Adiís general social media followers but Iíd counsel a degree of caution before going to town on this dealership, even though they clearly deserve it. Iíd just be a bit concerned about a possible backlash on the basis of ďrich manís toysĒ and ďfirst world problemsĒ. It shouldnít be the case but the court of social media can be fickle.
    This is, even aside from the cars, a very interesting issue and one I've had to consider quite a lot in the past. There is always some concern regarding general perception, and I have dealt with it quite a bit regarding the value of my artwork. Some of my followers buy and sell artwork many times more valuable than these cars, but to some it is inconceivable that someone would buy a piece of art for a few thousand. But because the market dictates the value of my art, just as with watches, etc., it is what it is, so it comes down to the language used more than anything else. Of course there will always be a number of people, as in this thread, who will dismiss it as "rich man having a tantrum", but there will be those from many walks of life who will be able to put it into the context of their own experience and the things they value.

    I can't honestly say I would've sympathised with someone in this situation when I was poor, so I can't really blame anyone for how they view it. I remember shortly after arriving in the US as a refugee just being so happy to be able to buy ice cream (with food stamps!) and not being shot at that becoming some a-hole with two broken Porsches would've seemed like a dream.

  13. #113
    Iíve currently have a 911 and a Macan , and before this had a cayenne . Like you a 911 was my dream car growing up. Having read your experiences Iím sorry to say Iím really not surprised. The Porsche servicing and after sales service is horrendous. Ruins the ownership experience.

    My OPC has been caught out multiple times trying to charge for work that didnít need doing . A one off I would say was a mistake , but over the last 6 years Iíve caught them out 4 times.


    Itís such a shame as I absolutely love my 911 and the Macan. But I genuinely hate servicing time.

  14. #114
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    I think the key is to establish a relationship with an independent specialist. I always take my cars to Cotswold Porsche Specialists (a round trip of over 300 miles), but there are many other trustworthy and highly competent ones out there.


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  15. #115
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    Appalling service. I think I'd have keeled over apoplectic when I saw the car covered in mud. I'd never have seen the rest; they'd have been burying me the following week.

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  16. #116
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    One reason I'd never buy a Porsche. My local Skoda dealer, on the other hand, is an absolute delight.

  17. #117
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    It all boils down to where you live I suppose as I use both, my local Porsche dealer is excellent, my local Skoda one leaves a lot to be desired!

  18. #118
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    Give them a reasonable deadline, tell them if they donít meet it you will pull yours cars out and will be going nuclear.

    Otherwise seems they will just continue to mess you about and wind you up.

  19. #119
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    Iíve been following this with great interest - a saga of astonishingly poor customer service, and I nearly swallowed my tongue at the whole ďweíll just send your treasured classic to a pensioner who wants to joyride it in a farmyardĒ episode.

    In my view youíve shown the patience of a particularly understanding saint, OP: I doubt I couldíve remained as measured and controlled by this point, and while I have no social media presence and therefore no leverage whatsoever in the court of Twitter, Iíd be inclined to call down a foul and persistent plague of lawyers on PCL, just on general principle. So, well done for maintaining equanimity!

    Yes, I suppose it is ďjust a carĒ, but I completely get the emotional investment in finally owning oneís childhood ďposter carĒ, and irrespective of monetary value, these things are important to those of us who feel that way.

  20. #120
    I do feel stupid for falling for their "Porsche Classic" tagline and have learned a big lesson. I had little choice with the 997 as it was within warranty, but I thought having both cars under one roof was a good idea.

    I am expecting a call from Porsche GB tomorrow morning (hopefully) and I am having a meeting and inspecting the cars in the afternoon. Both cars, but especially the 930, are now so close to being done, I would love to save myself further stress and time and just get them back, but depending on how tomorrow goes I will plan the next steps.

  21. #121
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    Like some others I have been following this thread and I have to say I absolutely just cannot fathom how Porsche let a geriatric 'mechanic' have at your treasured 930. Words fail me!

    I have a much more modest 987 Boxster but still clench when it goes in for a service or any substantial work. The Porsche paranoia is real but I truly love the car.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    Like some others I have been following this thread and I have to say I absolutely just cannot fathom how Porsche let a geriatric 'mechanic' have at your treasured 930. Words fail me!

    I have a much more modest 987 Boxster but still clench when it goes in for a service or any substantial work. The Porsche paranoia is real but I truly love the car.
    I have questioned this many times and it just doesn't make any sense. I actually don't mind sharing the name of the business either, it's Bogg Brothers in Malton, however, the caveat is that it is David Bogg, the former owner and the father of the current owners, who worked on my car independent of the Bogg Bros business. It all got so convoluted... David Bogg effectively retired in 2003, but seems to have maintained a business on the side and Porsche Leeds claim they have used his/their services for a very long time.

    After David had the car for three weeks, the service advisor at Porsche Leeds asked me to speak to him directly as they weren't able to get the answers to the questions I was asking, primarily if the car is well taken care of and when it would be done. As I mentioned, due to lockdown restrictions I wasn't able to visit myself, but the advisor from PCL said he would, which he didn't (it's a couple of hours drive roundtrip). When I spoke to him, David himself told me that he was 82 and that he wasn't a Porsche specialist, so my alarm bells were going off the scale, but at this point it was too late. He was actually very nice and quite convincing for a little while, until I realised that he was seeking help from an actual Porsche specialist local to him, and that he was completely out of his depth.

    Anyhow, when the car was delivered to me in the appalling state, I called him, and he genuinely didn't seem to understand what he has done. He was hugely apologetic, but it was painfully obvious that he should never have been allowed anywhere near this car.

    The Porsche specialist who was called in to help him with the car actually called me afterwards to fill in some of the gaps in the story.

    Honestly, just writing all of that is so surreal as it makes no damn sense that a Porsche Centre would play so fast and loose with a car in their care.

  23. #123
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    Maybe the old guy isnít all he was mentally .... perhaps he lost some cognitive abilities unknown to those who gave him their work ... it happens.

  24. #124
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    This is such a sorry tale to read. The incompetence of the Porsche dealership is staggering.
    Did you take any photos of the car when it was caked in mud?

  25. #125
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    Those who've advocated engaging a solicitor ... can I ask, how would that work? I ask as I've wondered myself, in the course of one or two disputes with companies, whether I should be handling a grievance over to a solicitor, on the grounds [1] that one might be taken more seriously and [2] that there'd be psychological relief from the stress involved in such cases [very well conveyed by Adi here]. But I've always been deterred by the cost.

    So for example in a case like this, how would you proceed? Instruct a solicitor on the basis that you'd expect to recover your costs? Someone local, or specialist in a given field? Would you ask the solicitor just to do what they can or would you have a set of specific expectations? Don't want to divert the thread but I'd be interested to hear a bit more about what "lawyering-up" typically entails.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by adigra View Post
    I have questioned this many times and it just doesn't make any sense. I actually don't mind sharing the name of the business either, it's Bogg Brothers in Malton, however, the caveat is that it is David Bogg, the former owner and the father of the current owners, who worked on my car independent of the Bogg Bros business. It all got so convoluted... David Bogg effectively retired in 2003, but seems to have maintained a business on the side and Porsche Leeds claim they have used his/their services for a very long time.

    After David had the car for three weeks, the service advisor at Porsche Leeds asked me to speak to him directly as they weren't able to get the answers to the questions I was asking, primarily if the car is well taken care of and when it would be done. As I mentioned, due to lockdown restrictions I wasn't able to visit myself, but the advisor from PCL said he would, which he didn't (it's a couple of hours drive roundtrip). When I spoke to him, David himself told me that he was 82 and that he wasn't a Porsche specialist, so my alarm bells were going off the scale, but at this point it was too late. He was actually very nice and quite convincing for a little while, until I realised that he was seeking help from an actual Porsche specialist local to him, and that he was completely out of his depth.

    Anyhow, when the car was delivered to me in the appalling state, I called him, and he genuinely didn't seem to understand what he has done. He was hugely apologetic, but it was painfully obvious that he should never have been allowed anywhere near this car.

    The Porsche specialist who was called in to help him with the car actually called me afterwards to fill in some of the gaps in the story.

    Honestly, just writing all of that is so surreal as it makes no damn sense that a Porsche Centre would play so fast and loose with a car in their care.
    Honestly, just reading it is giving me a severe case of the Steaming Rage on your behalf...! Leeds is one of the much-vaunted centres for Porsche Classic in the UK, too - they did a full restoration on a 928 by way of publicity for the launch of Porsche Classic in the UK, IIRC. Frankly, if this is how they approach working on rare, treasured classic cars, then maybe a publicity blitz in in order, if only to warn others off. The more I think about it, OP, the more respect I have for your zen calm...

    Tom-P - procedurally it very much depends on the situation; "suing someone" in the UK, for example, usually requires you to be able to demonstrate a loss caused by the other party. But a solicitor would also be helpful in, say, defending you if you decide not to pay a bill and get taken to court by a supplier. IM(non-specialist, unqualified)O, the first step is always to work out what resolution you want to the problem, and then ask an appropriate specialist solicitor for advice (a litigator, probably). I'd work on the basis of expecting not to recover costs (not because it's impossible, but because it's a good way to judge whether engaging a solicitor is worth the money), for what it's worth. I should stress - I am not a lawyer, but I spend a fair bit of time around them. No doubt other, actually qualified, people will comment.

  27. #127
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    Iíve got everything crossed that this debacle is now sorted for Adi after today itís genuinely a story you couldnít make up

  28. #128
    So, an interesting update and quite a bit to unpack today. First, Porsche GB have been very responsive and very fast, and I would say quite effective as well. The lady dealing with my case has come through on everything she said so far and will stay involved until this is resolved.

    I went into Porsche Centre today armed with a list of questions I needed answered, primary being what the status of the 930 was. Last Tuesday I was told they had refitted the repainted intercooler and they were testing the car, but after that point I just couldn't get either the service advisor nor the manager to answer whether the car was running. I spoke to the manager on Wednesday and Friday, and the advisor on Saturday and they dodged the question in various ways, which is what led me to contact Porsche GB and JCT600. I suspected something was wrong and as the days went on that feeling only got worse.

    Well, I wasn't wrong, but it's not as terrible as I feared. Basically the starting issue for which I took the car in to them back on 4 January is still there, so this whole saga was for absolutely nothing. It became clear that they were really worried about telling me about it and just made the situation much worse. They are contacting Porsche Germany for guidance... This whole thing is costing them a huge amount and it's entirely of their own doing. But the language has changed drastically and how they accept that they damaged it.

    I inspected the car and there were a couple of negatives. One of the dents in the door is still just barely visible, so they will have the dent guy work on it more. I felt almost bad to point it out as it is so faint, but the car was just in the right place for the light to hit it, as otherwise I wouldn't have seen it. But I'm glad I did and it's getting sorted. The dashboard nick hasn't been fixed yet as the leather guy has to come to them (since they are terrified from sending it away now). And finally, the scratches in the wheels are a specialised job as they are anodised, not painted, and apparently only one place in London does them and can take about three weeks...

    Everything else is looking fantastic. The seat scratches, the intercooler, the sill trim and the windscreen appear perfect.

    But, yes, I think I am in for at least another month...

    As for the 997, they have reassembled the engine and had it running today. They have ordered the clutch parts I requested, etc. The plan is again this Friday. It's looking good at last.

    And lastly, they will finally give me some indication of cost, warranty coverage, etc. There is stuff being done I requested, but this is actually costing them a huge deal in more ways than one.

    I wouldn't say today was a positive day, but it provided a huge amount of clarity. Being able to see my cars, and especially the 930, was really good.

  29. #129
    Master Mark020's Avatar
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    Good to hear. Iíve been around in the Porsche scene for 20+ years but this is by far the strangest story Iíve heard...

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by adigra View Post
    So, an interesting update and quite a bit to unpack today. First, Porsche GB have been very responsive and very fast, and I would say quite effective as well. The lady dealing with my case has come through on everything she said so far and will stay involved until this is resolved.

    I went into Porsche Centre today armed with a list of questions I needed answered, primary being what the status of the 930 was. Last Tuesday I was told they had refitted the repainted intercooler and they were testing the car, but after that point I just couldn't get either the service advisor nor the manager to answer whether the car was running. I spoke to the manager on Wednesday and Friday, and the advisor on Saturday and they dodged the question in various ways, which is what led me to contact Porsche GB and JCT600. I suspected something was wrong and as the days went on that feeling only got worse.

    Well, I wasn't wrong, but it's not as terrible as I feared. Basically the starting issue for which I took the car in to them back on 4 January is still there, so this whole saga was for absolutely nothing. It became clear that they were really worried about telling me about it and just made the situation much worse. They are contacting Porsche Germany for guidance... This whole thing is costing them a huge amount and it's entirely of their own doing. But the language has changed drastically and how they accept that they damaged it.

    I inspected the car and there were a couple of negatives. One of the dents in the door is still just barely visible, so they will have the dent guy work on it more. I felt almost bad to point it out as it is so faint, but the car was just in the right place for the light to hit it, as otherwise I wouldn't have seen it. But I'm glad I did and it's getting sorted. The dashboard nick hasn't been fixed yet as the leather guy has to come to them (since they are terrified from sending it away now). And finally, the scratches in the wheels are a specialised job as they are anodised, not painted, and apparently only one place in London does them and can take about three weeks...

    Everything else is looking fantastic. The seat scratches, the intercooler, the sill trim and the windscreen appear perfect.

    But, yes, I think I am in for at least another month...

    As for the 997, they have reassembled the engine and had it running today. They have ordered the clutch parts I requested, etc. The plan is again this Friday. It's looking good at last.

    And lastly, they will finally give me some indication of cost, warranty coverage, etc. There is stuff being done I requested, but this is actually costing them a huge deal in more ways than one.

    I wouldn't say today was a positive day, but it provided a huge amount of clarity. Being able to see my cars, and especially the 930, was really good.

    Well slightly better news at least, fingers crossed itís heading in the right direction mate

  31. #131
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    Personally I think they should be sucking up the whole cost, and giving you a nice bottle of champagne as well as a way of apology.

  32. #132
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I strongly recommend a Roederer Cristal. In a magnum!
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  33. #133
    Something still not right here, hot start issues are not rocket science, why do they need to get Porsche involved, by modern standards it is a simple car, usually assuming it has compression hot start issues are due to rich mixture caused by a faulty sensor, starting with the air and water temperature sensors.

    Even simpler as there is no water
    Last edited by adrianw; 13th April 2021 at 11:13.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Something still not right here, hot start issues are not rocket science, why do they need to get Porsche involved, by modern standards it is a simple car, usually assuming it has compression hot start issues are due to rich mixture caused by a faulty sensor, starting with the air and water temperature sensors.
    Yes I have been pondering this as well. Methinks there may be more to that particular story.

  35. #135
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    If they present you with a bill to pay (on either car) after all of this, I would be very disappointed.

    A humble gift of a weekend away to a nice hotel, would seem a little more apt.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    A humble gift of a weekend away to a nice hotel, would seem a little more apt.
    Provided they don't outsource catering to the local farmer.

  37. #137
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    I think a bit of artwork when this is over could prove cathartic. Maybe a view of Octogenarian Mud Man tearing up the fields in a white 930 with a sub panel of the service manager at Leeds Porsche seated behind his desk, laughing manically, whilst grasping bundles of banknotes in either hand.

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Something still not right here, hot start issues are not rocket science, why do they need to get Porsche involved, by modern standards it is a simple car, usually assuming it has compression hot start issues are due to rich mixture caused by a faulty sensor, starting with the air and water temperature sensors.

    Even simpler as there is no water
    There is a bit of detail there, but it basically comes down to them not having anyone who understands the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection. It is mechanical fuel injection and the mixture is controlled by an air flow "flap". The suspicion has been, from the very start, that the fuel metering unit, specifically the air sensor plate/flap is sticking. They have hoped that the carb specialist fixed it. He told me he freed it and it was moving fine, but later said it was still sticking intermittently. So there was no actual fix or repair made. As the car sat for weeks before they tested it, I suspect it's sticking again. If that is indeed the issue, the solutions are simple, either live with it in the hopes it frees up with use, have the metering unit rebuilt, or fit a new unit. The main problem is that no one has been able to say with authority that that really is the issue, and I don't think Porsche Leeds have the expertise.

    So, I will let them finish the cosmetic issues, which will give them some time to come up with a plan, and if I am not happy with that plan I will either ask them to take it to a specialist of my choice, or I will take it myself.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by adigra View Post
    There is a bit of detail there, but it basically comes down to them not having anyone who understands the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection. It is mechanical fuel injection and the mixture is controlled by an air flow "flap". The suspicion has been, from the very start, that the fuel metering unit, specifically the air sensor plate/flap is sticking. They have hoped that the carb specialist fixed it. He told me he freed it and it was moving fine, but later said it was still sticking intermittently. So there was no actual fix or repair made. As the car sat for weeks before they tested it, I suspect it's sticking again. If that is indeed the issue, the solutions are simple, either live with it in the hopes it frees up with use, have the metering unit rebuilt, or fit a new unit. The main problem is that no one has been able to say with authority that that really is the issue, and I don't think Porsche Leeds have the expertise.

    So, I will let them finish the cosmetic issues, which will give them some time to come up with a plan, and if I am not happy with that plan I will either ask them to take it to a specialist of my choice, or I will take it myself.
    I think you need to completely separate PCL and your 930 at the earliest opportunity and never introduce the two again!

    Taking it directly to a well respected specialist is probably the least stressful approach.

  40. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post
    I think you need to completely separate PCL and your 930 at the earliest opportunity and never introduce the two again!

    Taking it directly to a well respected specialist is probably the least stressful approach.
    Yes, this is the option which is looking the best, but I now have to let PCL and Porsche GB go through their process as pulling the plug abruptly now wouldn't be in my interest. I definitely want them to fix the wheels and the dashboard before I decide on the next move.

  41. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by adigra View Post
    There is a bit of detail there, but it basically comes down to them not having anyone who understands the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection. It is mechanical fuel injection and the mixture is controlled by an air flow "flap". The suspicion has been, from the very start, that the fuel metering unit, specifically the air sensor plate/flap is sticking. They have hoped that the carb specialist fixed it. He told me he freed it and it was moving fine, but later said it was still sticking intermittently. So there was no actual fix or repair made. As the car sat for weeks before they tested it, I suspect it's sticking again. If that is indeed the issue, the solutions are simple, either live with it in the hopes it frees up with use, have the metering unit rebuilt, or fit a new unit. The main problem is that no one has been able to say with authority that that really is the issue, and I don't think Porsche Leeds have the expertise.

    So, I will let them finish the cosmetic issues, which will give them some time to come up with a plan, and if I am not happy with that plan I will either ask them to take it to a specialist of my choice, or I will take it myself.
    Thanks for that, obviously I haven't seen it but that doesn't sound correct, when the engine starts it uses a cuttaway in the throttle butterfly or an air bleed, from what you have described the cuttaway is in that plate, I spent a few minutes on the internet, there is quiet a lot of information about the K-Jetronic, this is worth a read, https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart..._Injection.htm there is a paragraph on Hot start issues. But the dealer should know all of this!

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Thanks for that, obviously I haven't seen it but that doesn't sound correct, when the engine starts it uses a cuttaway in the throttle butterfly or an air bleed, from what you have described the cuttaway is in that plate, I spent a few minutes on the internet, there is quiet a lot of information about the K-Jetronic, this is worth a read, https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart..._Injection.htm there is a paragraph on Hot start issues. But the dealer should know all of this!
    That is an interesting article as it confirms that there were a couple of things done correctly. The check valve was replaced as the first port of call, but didn't help. I then asked Porsche to replace the accumulator to eliminate it, which also didn't help. The K-Jetronic workshop manual lists the potential causes for warm starting issues, and lists air flow plate or control plunger not moving smoothly. One moves the other, but technically it's more likely the plunger isn't moving freely. I suspect that a rebuild/clean would help.

    But no, the dealer don't know this. They are awaiting response from Porsche.

    The agreement as of today is to get all of the cosmetic stuff finished and present me with a plan regarding the hot starting. I spoke again to both Porsche GB and PCL and they have agreed to follow this plan.

    This video is pretty good, if super boring, in explaining the K-Jetronic. It is so boring that I advise anyone who doesn't for whatever reason really care to know about this not to watch it!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fJAfXYxWk

  43. #143
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Something still not right here, hot start issues are not rocket science, why do they need to get Porsche involved, by modern standards it is a simple car, usually assuming it has compression hot start issues are due to rich mixture caused by a faulty sensor, starting with the air and water temperature sensors.

    Even simpler as there is no water
    My thoughts exactly. If it turning over, itís either spark or fuel. The 930 is however a bit different as it has 2 high pressure fuel pumps. My money would be on a sensor or a leak in the vacuum.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  44. #144
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adigra View Post
    That is an interesting article as it confirms that there were a couple of things done correctly. The check valve was replaced as the first port of call, but didn't help. I then asked Porsche to replace the accumulator to eliminate it, which also didn't help. The K-Jetronic workshop manual lists the potential causes for warm starting issues, and lists air flow plate or control plunger not moving smoothly. One moves the other, but technically it's more likely the plunger isn't moving freely. I suspect that a rebuild/clean would help.

    But no, the dealer don't know this. They are awaiting response from Porsche.

    The agreement as of today is to get all of the cosmetic stuff finished and present me with a plan regarding the hot starting. I spoke again to both Porsche GB and PCL and they have agreed to follow this plan.

    This video is pretty good, if super boring, in explaining the K-Jetronic. It is so boring that I advise anyone who doesn't for whatever reason really care to know about this not to watch it!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fJAfXYxWk

    I read this and to be honest I am not as shocked as perhaps I should be.

    I have been using the same independent for the last 17 years to service my 964, and he had told me that a lot of his business comes from Porsche at Bournemouth because they simply donít have the skills to fix air cooled Porsche. Simply because most of the guys who trained with Porsche between 1960-1990 have either set themselves up as independents or are dead.

    He added that most of the current crop are not really engineers. They look at the Fault Codes and change stuff. Something I experienced personally when Porsche Swindon answer to a headlight problem was to replace the switch (special order) and over £500 (which I paid), but didnít fix the fault. In less than an hour my guy found the fault was a loose earth in the fuse box. Cost me a few quid!

    Regarding your 930, hopefully Porsche Leeds will sort it, but I would be tempted to reach out to Ninemeister (Warrington) or Tuthill Porsche (Banbury) and get them to take a good look at the work Porsche Leeds have done.

    Good luck with the 930, a real mans car

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  45. #145
    The story goes on for anyone who is interested in watching paint dry...

    I've now been speaking with the Porsche Leeds principal who has promised definitive delivery dates for both cars. 997 next Tuesday, the 27th and the 930 the 7th May. He has been much better at accepting responsibility and accountability and has asked if we could have a meeting next week to discuss what he can do to improve the situation (good will gesture of some kind). He said that their lack of urgency and their lack of informing their suppliers of the urgency is why we are here, which is exactly the thing that has been driving me absolutely crazy all this time.

    The reason the 997 will take until Tuesday is because they had the engine refitted two weeks ago only to discover that a coil on one of the cylinders was damaged during the installation. As usual, it took them over a week to replace it, still leaving them with the clutch issues. Ever since September last year I've been asking them to check the clutch slave cylinder as the issue is very common and it's always that and/or the associated pressure accumulator. They ignored me all this time, until this week they said they contacted Porsche Technical who told them it's a known fault and it will be the slave cylinder and/or the accumulator and there is a known procedure to check it. I didn't know if I should laugh or cry. Anyhow, the principal got involved and gave me a drop dead deadline, the 27th.

    The 930 still has the hot starting issue which they've been in contact with Porsche Classic about. The dealership principal again said that the lack of urgency on their end has been very poor and confirmed what I've been saying that they would only do one job at a time per week. Since the rear wheels are scraped, and they are anodised and need special treatment, I was told it could take up to 5 weeks, which at this stage was unacceptable as they should've sent them off two months ago and had them back by now, but again, only one job at a time... Anyhow, he has now set a deadline of having them anodised by the 3rd and centres painted and the car completely ready by the 7th, during which time they will fix the hot starting issue as well. I told them that if the starting issue isn't fixed by the time the wheels are back I will take the car away anyhow, which they seem to find a really painful idea (being a Porsche Classic Centre it would be a pretty poor show).

    I think I mentioned that when I went to inspect the car last week and one of the dents in the door was still visible. They booked the dent repair again, but they forgot to remove the door card, so apparently the dent guy came this past Monday and couldn't access it. It takes 20 minutes to remove the door card... Anyhow, he's coming back tomorrow to do it. That saying about a pissup in a brewery keeps popping up in my head.

    Finally, Porsche GB. I was very positive about their involvement, but then it just turned into another poor customer care experience. The lady there said all the right things and promised to keep me updated so when the 997 was meant to be ready last Friday she said they would let me know well in advance whether there are delays so I am not waiting till the last minute. Well, she didn't. Friday came and I got in touch with the dealership who then told me again "next Friday". When I tried to get in touch with her she was first "out to lunch, will call you back", she didn't. Then she was "in a meeting, will call you back", she didn't, and then she was gone for the day. Fast forward to yesterday morning, having not heard from her in 8 days, I call again to be told she's not working, but another person will help me organise a call back. When I didn't get a call until 6pm I called back to be told the original lady was actually working, but the person "helping me" didn't actually request the call she said she did. My sense of humour left me so now I'm having to wait 48 hours for someone from their management to call me back. I am not expecting much.

  46. #146
    Grand Master WORKSIMON's Avatar
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    I think you have more patience than me I'm afraid ! I think at this point I would accept the final delivery dates but inform them that if they slip in any way at all or if the cars are still not fixed you will have them very publicly shipped to an independent to be fixed properly and that you would be looking for some sort of apology etc from Porsche for the whole palaver.
    Cheers

    Simon



    Ralph Waldo Emerson: We ask for long life, but 'tis deep life, or noble moments that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.

  47. #147
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    Good lord above, the plot thickens. I'm glad to hear that the dealer principal has at least been making the right sort of noises but I share your scepticism by this point. And I think it's absolutely right to insist on having the 930 back irrespective of whether they sort the starting issue. As others have said, it may be easier to get that looked at by a specialist directly - and at least you will have the car back in your possession.

    Porsche GB's response is profoundly disappointing; plainly they have concluded that you're not important enough to prioritise, and that is just flat-out rude.

  48. #148
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    Litany of false promises knowing full well they don't have the in-house expertise to deal with older models - complete lack of honesty/integrity from the the beginning I'm afraid Adi

  49. #149
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    I don't know how you have stayed so measured; I'd have lost my rag by now ...


    Quote Originally Posted by PreacherCain View Post
    Porsche GB's response is profoundly disappointing; plainly they have concluded that you're not important enough to prioritise, and that is just flat-out rude.
    Sadly I suspect the above is true which is utter arrogance; when they can't be bothered to serve an obvious enthusiast as there is a queue of rich people at the door waiting to hand over huge sums the enthusiasts are brushed to the side ... sounds like another brand we all know and love ...

  50. #150
    In both cases, with Porsche GB and the PCL, it has felt like the people lower down have been trying to contain the situation from reaching above them. Which is fine if you do your job, but it's really weird that they expect me to just be fine with it indefinitely.

    I agree, there is an obvious lack of skill and knowledge, as well as a complete lack of transparency and communication.

    I am not actually worried about the cars any more, they will be fine, now I am just angry and will not go away.

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