Porsche Centre damaged my car... Updated with the outcome

[adigra]

This is a bit of a convoluted story as it involves two cars. I am so frustrated that I think I've lost all perspective and am looking for a bit of clarity. I have a 1989 930 911 Turbo and a 2006 997 911 Turbo. The 930 has had a hot starting issue, so I took it to an independent specialist, which admitted they didn't know enough about them, so I was a bit at a loss. Due to the Porsche Leeds being "classic certified" I gave them a call and they were very enthusiastic to take it in and assured me they were well versed in the old models. After about 10 days I called and was told that they didn't have the right equipment so they have sent it to an outside contractor. I was taken by surprise that they didn't check with me before sending it off site, but was assured this was normal. I asked where they have sent it, and it was a carburettor specialist I have actually heard of from my time with my Lotus, but haven't used them. As days turned into weeks I was getting nervous and every time I asked any questions was told that the specialist is very busy so has to slot my car in between other jobs, etc. I was assured that the car was stored indoors and protected from the elements (this was January). After about 3 weeks of a shifting story, the Porsche Leeds manager admitted frustration and asked me to speak directly to the specialist. This is now about 5 weeks after I had given them the car. So I speak to the specialist and it turns out he is a retired 82 year old man working part time in his son's business which he used to run, but now he's separate from it. He spends a long time telling me how he doesn't know Porsches, but he knows cars, and how Porsche Leeds are incompetent, etc. Over the next two weeks I call him a couple of more times until it becomes clear he doesn't actually know how to fix the car and has been calling in a separate independent Porsche specialist to help him. He claims the car has been fixed, but if I am unhappy after I receive it, not to bring it back to him or Porsche Leeds, but to go to this independent. Just to summarise, Porsche Leeds still have actual possession of my car, and since this is all during lockdown, I can't go visit it myself, but they also never go to check on it, despite saying they would.

So, after a total of 7 weeks, 5 of which the car was at this specialist, Porsche Leeds offer to either have the car transported back to their premises, or dropped off at my house. I chose the latter. The morning of the delivery I get a call from the specialist and he says the car has left, but when they were loading it it died and wouldn't restart. He says my fuel gauge must be broken... I nervously wait for the car and as the transporter arrives I see the car is completely caked in mud, from the tyres to the roof, thick farm mud. As it's unloaded I open the door and the driver side is also completely covered in mud. The original blue carpets, sills, the seat, all caked, rubbed in mud. Ironically, I fitted a set of cheap floor mats to protect the original carpets, and he has got them dirty, removed them, and got the carpets even dirtier. The car is unable to start, so I immediately call Porsche and they pick it back up and take it to their premises. I follow. They are horrified but promise to valet it for me to inspect it the following day. I call the specialist, but at this point it is crystal clear he is a very old man who literally didn't know what he was doing. He is hugely sorry, but seems to be genuinely unaware what he has done.

The following day I go to Porsche Leeds and the car is beautifully clean. All of the mud is gone and my worries of permanent staining were unfounded. However, now clean you could see two dents in the door, scratched and dented sill protectors, scratched and scraped seat and scratched dashboard, both rear wheels scratched and the intercooler housing chipped. They take notes of everything. The Service manager promises everything will be fixed, etc.

Now, while all of this was happening, before I got the damaged car back, my 997 developed a coolant leak. It was still in warranty so I booked it in at Porsche Leeds. It also has a leak out of the clutch fluid overflow tank which I took it into them twice previously, both times to be told it was overfilled. I knew it wasn't, as something in the system was making it pressurise and pump back. After being dismissed twice this time it seemed like they would have to fix it while it was in for the coolant issue. This was 7 weeks ago...

Basically, they confirmed there was a leak, decided they had to drop the engine to access it, and the car then sat untouched for a month. About two weeks into that is when the 930 came back, so now it's been 5 weeks since then. They dropped the engine, ordered a part, when that part arrived they saw that another part was needed and that has now been on order. They haven't even looked into the clutch issue, so even after the coolant is fixed there is still an outstanding issue which will require parts ordering and workshop time scheduling, so I have no idea about the schedule.

As for the 930, they got some of the damage fixed fast, as well as electrical issues hopefully fixed (of course the fuel gauge is fine), but then they sent the intercooler to be repainted and it all came to a total stop. The intercooler came back and sat for a week before they fitted it, then they had to check the car works before they could do the wheels, etc., etc. Every time I'm told "next Friday", and so on.

I had a call with their manager again last Friday and he said "Next Friday" for both cars, meaning this week, which I firmly challenged. Today I spoke to the service advisor overseeing the cars and he says the manager didn't have all of the info, so it more likely the Friday next week, which I also don't believe.

So that is over three months and I am basically out of ideas. Am I crazy? Is this normal? Am I overreacting? All I want is just to get my cars back, but feel completely between a rock and a hard place.

There is a lot more detail to it all, but I tried to summarise it as best I can. I try to put it into perspective as we are in a pandemic, but it's impossible to not let it get under my skin. Especially the obvious fact that they think their time is much more important than mine.

Thank you for reading.

[j0hnbarker]

Wow, so sorry to hear this.

Your experience sounds completely unacceptable. Aside from never trusting your cars to them again, I would be looking to write formally to the MD setting out the timeline, and your concerns with suggestions as to how you might be compensated financially for your loss of time and the damage done to your vehicles.

I would also copy in Porsche UK customer services so they are in the loop should you need to escalate further.

[Slevin Kelevra]

Absolutely shocking story.

Without sounding like an old fart, in this day and age, good customer service is becoming increasingly hard to come by.

[adigra]

Thank you all! It is making me feel a lot more sane.

I do know I was being too polite and kept waiting for them to "see me right". I had a meeting with the manager (the head of the service department) and the service advisor six weeks ago when the 930 first came back. I then had a call with both of them last Friday in which I got much firmer. But they always use the "almost done, next Friday" thing to diffuse the situation. The service advisor is a nice guy which has made me feel guilty to get mad, but the manager really angers me and has made it much easier to get properly furious with them, so after staying quiet for this long, I am prepared to escalate as far as it's needed.

And yes, they are JCT600. In contrast I used the JCT bodyshop in Bradford a couple of months ago and they were like clockwork.

[adrianw]

Why are you asking this on an Internet forum, send your post to a solicitor and quantify the damages, they lied to you, you were unaware of the location of your car, one car has been damaged, the other has a fault that they have not rectified, I would also be extremely concerned that normally a pressurised water system is a blown head gasket, and don’t pay them a penny

Just another thought, are they going to charge you Porsche main dealer rates when they subbed it out to a non franchised shed.

[kevkojak]

I'm cringing just reading this. To echo most, you've been very patient here. Porsche had no right farming out your car to an unknown third party and they should be held to account for any damage.
I wish you the best of luck. Have you posted this on any forums they might actually monitor or be aware of (specialist 911 sites, even Pistonheads etc?). This might well have a speedy resolution once Porsche Leeds realise that their reputation might be suffering.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I feel the pain.

I think you have been very patient from what I read.

Personally, I would put all of your concerns in an itemised list in writing. Detail the issue, the required remedial action and your expectations. This at least puts a 'peg in the ground' and leaves them in no doubt about the situation. I presume the Leeds Porsche Centre is still under the JCT600 umbrella?. If it is you may have recourse escalating it to their head office?.

Good luck.

[glyn696486]

You are not over reacting, this is not normal. You mentioned you have spoken to the manager, was it the dealer principle, as I think they would be your first port of call now. I would also get in contact with Porsche UK. This behaviour is not acceptable, if that was my 930 I would of lost my mind in the condition it was returned. Personally and please do not take offence as it is not intended it seems like you have been a bit too reasonable and as such they are taking advantage of that fact. They have the best part of £200k of your cars sat on a bench due to there failings. I would be knocking at the door tomorrow morning for a socially distanced meeting outside to discuss how this is best resolved for you.


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[Euan Begbie]

Stop everything and go to the highest person that you can find. Call Porsche UK head office etc. Make someone listen. Cause as much of a stink as you possibly can.

Take it to a proper specialist like RPM or something. Make Porsche pay.


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[Foxy100]

That's appalling. I don't know what to suggest but good luck with both cars.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Absolutely shocking story.

Firstly I’d say the garage are simply fire fighting and giving the bad news to the customer who’s less likely to shout. This generally happens when a garage is over booked/stretched who are taking on too much work than they can cope with.....being a main dealers there’s little they can do about it but managing customers expectations is one way of easing the problem.

As for taking your first car away from their garage and giving it to someone else, I’d be drafting an email and sending it to the head of business, Porsche UK, and making the biggest stink you can. That is totally unacceptable and should never happen.....the Porsche garage are responsible for your car regardless of them telling you to contact the other lot....simply staggering.

[adigra]

You guys are literally confirming everything I've thought, but what has been completely baffling me is just how unconcerned they have seemed about me going public with this.

[Kirk280]

Does the dealership have a letterbox?

[southerner101]

Utterly shocking and probably the worst story I have heard involving cars and garages. I kind of feel guilty now for tearing into my mechanic who tried charging me for topping my oil up when the punto went in for two new part worn tyres.

[adigra]

I hate to even mention this, but I have hundreds of thousands of followers on social media, including Porsche Leeds people (who asked me to sign stuff for them when they figured out what I did), as well as motoring writers. They all know this, but I have never brought it up, so me going public is probably going to reach a few more people than they will be happy with.

[Franky Four Fingers]

You guys are literally confirming everything I've thought, but what has been completely baffling me is just how unconcerned they have seemed about me going public with this.

Main dealers don’t care end of....for every person waiting to write a crappy review there’s 30 more waiting with open wallets.

[AlphaOmega]

Adi,

Sorry you've been given the runaround.

You've been polite. Which is good. Always be polite at first.

Now you've given them a chance to remedy and they haven't.

I would tell them that you're looking to share your story with the motoring press to get their opinion on next steps.

Then lay out what has happened from the start in clear bullet points outlining when events happened and how your expectations have not been met. Include details of costs incurred.

Then lay out what you'd like to happen in order for you to be satisfied.

I'd address it to the COO or the Comms Director of their UK Ops.

[Raffe]

What a story.

You are a saint, I think I would have exploded into the manager's face when they told you they had subbed the car to a 82 year old hobby 'specialist'.

[jwillans]

I'm also sorry to hear this - you are being extremely calm given the situation, I would be fuming and generating a paper trail of correspondence to drive a quick resolution or legal action if not.

[number2]

I'm not sure if Jack Tordoff is still at the helm or if John now runs the whole shebang, in your shoes I'd be knocking the door of the HO in Bradford.

[gavsw20]

Sorry for your unfortunate experience. This is exactly why my 997.1 and 944S2 go to specialists.

I can wholly recommend Zuffenhaus in the West Midlands. What Paul and Mike don’t know about the 997, 996 and classics before this isn’t worth knowing. Honest with all parts sourced and a competitive hourly rate.

In fact they only had a Turbo in last week - check their Instagram feed for an idea of the type of cars they have in.

I’ve had water pump, coolant leek and suspension change on my 997 in the last few years. All repaired by the time specified and with parts sourced from Design-911.

Tell them Gav sent you.

[RobDad]

That sounds like an absolute nightmare, I think you’ve been remarkably patient (and that’s an understatement!) - on the flip side I took my old golf cabriolet into my local VW dealer today for its annual service, when I picked it up a few hours later - and paid a bill well under £300 - they’d cleaned it inside and out so it looked almost factory fresh and polished all the panels, couldn’t have been nicer. I’ve bought 2 cars from them, one of which was a £5k VW Up yet they couldn’t be more helpful. Seems like it doesn’t matter how much money you spend, some businesses care and some don’t. I hope you get everything sorted


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[Jdh1]

Shocking treatment and very surprised that a main dealer doesn't have anyone capable of looking after their classic cars even when they say they do. I think they're taking advantage of the fact that you're a nice guy - always best to be nice first - but they're not really deserving of any more patience now. For what it's worth, I think pragmatism will force them to do the right thing eventually.

[Robsmck]

Slightly OT but that sounds like a sensible GP. Too many are quick to reach for the prescription pad when other routes may be better.

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[Thewatchbloke]

Your 930 looks to be a beauty Adi, I can only imagine how you felt when it was returned dirty and damaged. Unfortunately you won't get anywhere being Mr reasonable if you're not dealing with reasonable people.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease so in your position I'd let them know of your plans to go public with how they treat their customers then give them a tight timeframe to get everything sorted to your satisfaction.

[Hood]

I can't get my head around the dealership giving it away to some old boy who absolutely trashes the car.
Like an episode of Fawlty Towers.
It would belike handing in your Double Red SeaDweller to the Rolex AD to be serviced and they punt it off to some old boy that fixes old clocks.
Incredible.
Sounds like all's well that ends well though I'd be pushing for that GT allocation now.

[adigra]

I can't get my head around the dealership giving it away to some old boy who absolutely trashes the car.
Like an episode of Fawlty Towers.
It would belike handing in your Double Red SeaDweller to the Rolex AD to be serviced and they punt it off to some old boy that fixes old clocks.
Incredible.
Sounds like all's well that ends well though I'd be pushing for that GT allocation now.

Thank you for saying that as it's been really confounding me as well. And your comparison to the watch is exactly why I assumed people here would understand the situation. The PCL manager did accept that they gave my car to an 82 year old man to test drive around his farm. I must admit, hearing him finally say those words made me feel much better as they seem to have come around to the absurdity of what they've done.

[adigra]

Sadly not a great update today.

The service advisor messaged me asking me to confirm which parts I wanted replaced on the 997, after I confirmed, he sent me a photo of another part asking if I wanted it replaced. As there was no other information or cost mentioned, just a phone photo, I asked him what the condition was like. He never replied.

The service manager then called as agreed to give me an update, but sadly there was no progress to report, just more disappointment. He told me they are focusing on the 997 and have put the 930 in their showroom until that was done. I asked about the clutch issue with the 997, he said they couldn't work on it until the coolant leak is fixed, but no indication when that might be. When I asked why they can't work on the 930 at the same time (as they must be able to handle more than one car at a time at such a large dealership) he dodged the question. When I asked him whether the car was running (as they told me they were testing it last Tuesday) he didn't know.

I said I wanted to see the cars on Monday, to which he agreed, but asked if I can come in the afternoon so they clear other customers first. I told him I was not even angry any more, just very, very disappointed.

I tried calling the service advisor (as he gave me his mobile a while ago), he didn't answer. I messaged him two more times asking if the 930 was running, he logged into whatapp, but didn't respond.

So I decided to call Porsche UK. More I talked more interested the lady on the phone got, especially when I mentioned the damage and the car being sent away. She has created a case and tried calling the dealership while I was on the phone with her, there was no response. A few days ago I wrote a long document detailing everything including names and dates, and she was very interested for me to email it to her. She said she would call me on Monday with an update before I go to see the cars.

So that's where it's at. There is quite obviously something wrong at the dealership. I am assuming they are over stretched but are trying to keep a lid on it, so doing the usual business as normal, while my cars have become a burdensome side thing. But I don't know. Hopefully Porsche UK getting involved will help.

[Omegamanic]

I’m sorry to hear that the saga continues. I’m still very hopeful that you’ll get a positive outcome, but the time and stresses in getting there are another matter.

All the best

[Si]

So I decided to call Porsche UK.

You have been astonishingly patient. Wishing you a satisfactory outcome asap and with the least possible stress.

This is just incredible:

The PCL manager did accept that they gave my car to an 82 year old man to test drive around his farm.

[adigra]

You have been astonishingly patient. Wishing you a satisfactory outcome asap and with the least possible stress.

This is just incredible:

I have lost my patience entirely. I should've contacted Porsche UK sooner, but I suppose the longer all of this went, the worse it looks for them.

[Suds]

Litany of false promises knowing full well they don't have the in-house expertise to deal with older models - complete lack of honesty/integrity from the the beginning I'm afraid Adi

[wileeeeeey]

adigra, you are a better person than me. I would have lost my cool almost immediately and shortly after went with the nuclear option. Your restraint shows your character. War doesn't matter, you are emotionally invested in the cars and they've really breached your trust in a number of ways.

Hopefully all is well and you're happy with the inspection once allowed. I think a lot of these issues come from dealers being inundated but not being able to say no to the furlough money.

[adigra]

I really appreciate the comments, they have made me feel a lot more sane. Thank you all.

I love both of the cars, but the 930 for me is the fulfilment of a young boy's dream and I probably have an unreasonable attachment to it. To see it filthy and beat up was very upsetting.

[westy]

I feel for you having had an issue with an OPC recently* (nowhere near in this league though!) and I also think you have admirable restraint!
Hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction shortly, the 930 looks fab.

On the plus side, you've gained one more Instagram follower, not that it looks like you need it!



* They had the Macan for over three weeks to solve a leaking sunroof and then at service replaced the wiper blades but got the long/short blades on the wrong arms!
They also changed the brake fluid and now the pedal is softer than before, I thought it was supposed to be the other way round!
Not very confidence inspiring...

[adigra]

I feel for you having had an issue with an OPC recently* (nowhere near in this league though!) and I also think you have admirable restraint!
Hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction shortly, the 930 looks fab.

On the plus side, you've gained one more Instagram follower, not that it looks like you need it!



* They had the Macan for over three weeks to solve a leaking sunroof and then at service replaced the wiper blades but got the long/short blades on the wrong arms!
They also changed the brake fluid and now the pedal is softer than before, I thought it was supposed to be the other way round!
Not very confidence inspiring...

Thank you for following! I've been trying to post more art lately even if a lot of it is older as the current work is under an NDA.

But your comment regarding your car is very interesting as three weeks seems like a really long time for a leaky sunroof, but fit in with my own experience, especially with the 997. It has been a single task per week, including ordering parts from Germany, so any singe job, diagnose/order/fit, is three weeks. This is why I started wondering if this is just normal and I am being unreasonable.

[Saint-Just]

This is why I started wondering if this is just normal and I am being unreasonable.

Just because it is normal for them doesn't mean it is. I think you were extremely reasonable. If you are prone to empathise I suggest you go there with a friend that will not have the same tolerance as people can be quite adept as exploiting your kindness to short-change you.

[r.dawson]

I'd been following your Porsche story on social but hadn't realised it was quite that bad.

Good to hear it's getting sorted. I keep coming back to something we have discussed at work in that for many people, it's never been a more stressful time but a lot of people's coping mechanisms have been removed. The last thing people need is more stress adding to the situation.

If it hadn't been getting sorted I would have said call the office on apperley bridge. I used to do some work with them a long time ago and they were all good people.

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[Rodder]

Wow, this was a positive thread, and let’s try to keep it that way.

PTSD is really misunderstood, I used to be a SENCO and lots of our kids who have been exposed to violence and domestic abuse are affected for the rest of their lives. It shapes them and can affect them in every day situations. My wife’s father is Israeli and his parents left Berlin just before the war. I’m sure it’s always affected him (most people think he’s a little eccentric to be polite)

I think he was playing devils advocate and didn’t entirely mean it. Our GP seem to have employed a crack team of security guards as receptionists who seem determined not to let us speak to a GP, so times are tough.

I’m not sure of the theory but basically the more stuff we get, we enjoy it less. It’s just more things to think about and stress over. I’ve just bought a new car, not as expensive as the Porsche but I’m not entirely sure the enjoyment I’m getting from it out weighs the freedom of a ten year old car that I couldn’t care less what happen to it.

[adigra]

Wow, this was a positive thread, and let’s try to keep it that way.

PTSD is really misunderstood, I used to be a SENCO and lots of our kids who have been exposed to violence and domestic abuse are affected for the rest of their lives. It shapes them and can affect them in every day situations. My wife’s father is Israeli and his parents left Berlin just before the war. I’m sure it’s always affected him (most people think he’s a little eccentric to be polite)

I think he was playing devils advocate and didn’t entirely mean it. Our GP seem to have employed a crack team of security guards as receptionists who seem determined not to let us speak to a GP, so times are tough.

I’m not sure of the theory but basically the more stuff we get, we enjoy it less. It’s just more things to think about and stress over. I’ve just bought a new car, not as expensive as the Porsche but I’m not entirely sure the enjoyment I’m getting from it out weighs the freedom of a ten year old car that I couldn’t care less what happen to it.

I really didn't mean for this to take this direction as the last thing I wanted was to discuss my mental health issues. But I am quite sensitive to the "devil's advocate" type of throwaway comments by thoughtless people who ridicule mental health through saying stuff like "Man up!" or "Get a grip.". It is not only rude and dismissive, it is callous and abusive.

But out of respect for your and everyone else's considered responses, I will edit my harsh language above written out of anger.

As for PTSD, I have only really become fully aware of how much it affects me in my 40's as I never before had the time to pause and consider it. It permeates everything and influences everything I do. Some of it quite positive in fact, and some of it negative, but most of it very, very strong.

[r.dawson]

A good lesson that freedom of expression doesn't come with freedom of consequence.

Mentioning you would have said it to his face or not knowing someone's life or situation is no excuse for behaving that way. And the way you have worded your response suggests you really haven't appreciated the consequence.

The only way to know if you have, is the way you speak and interact with people in future.



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[learningtofly]

A good lesson that freedom of expression doesn't come with freedom of consequence.

Mentioning you would have said it to his face or not knowing someone's life or situation is no excuse for behaving that way. And the way you have worded your response suggests you really haven't appreciated the consequence.

The only way to know if you have, is the way you speak and interact with people in future.



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Agree 100%. I've mentioned more than once the frequent demonstrations on TZ of a lack of empathy and emotional intelligence; this is a classic example and all to often it's the same people who go blundering in, feet first.

Think first, type second.

[Matt8500]

Hope you get it sorted without further stress. Some people are quick to judge without knowing the full story sadly.

Your Instagram is amazing too- my sons were mesmerised!

[adigra]

Hope you get it sorted without further stress. Some people are quick to judge without knowing the full story sadly.

Your Instagram is amazing too- my sons were mesmerised!

Thank you! I'm happy they like it.

[Mj2k]

You have 2 beautiful cars, and I have the same fear whenever my cars go to Porsche for a service, but far more run of the mill as boxster & Cayman GTS 981’s.

Something clearly is wrong & admire your patience through this, I think I would have struggled. BMW scratched my old Z4M ‘washing it’ whilst claiming it wasn’t washed by them - handy thing the dashcam. It was just out of winter storage & came back more dirty than it went in. It was the lies that were the worst.

If anyone is interested in how long a dealer spends washing a car, less than 90s start to finish. Never let them wash it!

Best of luck for the resolution you deserve.


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[adigra]

You have 2 beautiful cars, and I have the same fear whenever my cars go to Porsche for a service, but far more run of the mill as boxster & Cayman GTS 981’s.

Something clearly is wrong & admire your patience through this, I think I would have struggled. BMW scratched my old Z4M ‘washing it’ whilst claiming it wasn’t washed by them - handy thing the dashcam. It was just out of winter storage & came back more dirty than it went in. It was the lies that were the worst.

If anyone is interested in how long a dealer spends washing a car, less than 90s start to finish. Never let them wash it!

Best of luck for the resolution you deserve.


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I have definitely learned my lesson.

[CardShark]

I have definitely learned my lesson.

You weren't to know how this would unfold. You may be thinking that you could/should have contacted Porsche sooner than you did however it is the dealer that has put you in this situation, it's not of your making.

It sounds like Porsche themselves are taking this seriously and I hope that they conclude this to a satisfactory manner for you, in the mean time look upon the situation as being one day gone, one day closer to getting them back - easier said than done, granted.

[Sweepinghand]

Porsche U.K. should oversee this is resolved to your benefit

I’d be pushing for additional compensation in the form of a free service fir each vehicle (clearly not at Leeds) for the future or some other form of paper benefit

I’ve heard some tales but this.... unreal


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[Raffe]

Porsche U.K. should oversee this is resolved to your benefit

I’d be pushing for additional compensation in the form of a free service fir each vehicle (clearly not at Leeds) for the future or some other form of paper benefit

I’ve heard some tales but this.... unreal


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I have no doubt you would be asking for something free which you could flog on Sales Corner.

[AlphaOmega]

What?

They're still not calling back when they say they will?

That is ridiculous. Any old tinpot garage returns calls. It's the 101 of service.

Something weird is going on. They can't possibly hang on to HNW clients like this. Either you're being singled out for bad service or they're losing clients left right and centre.

I would start charging them for your time.

Work out how much you earn for your commissions per hour. Back calculate it to the start of this mess. Then charge them. Tell them you'll be charging them for all the time it has taken you to chase them and all the time you've spent mitigating their mistakes.