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Thread: Calling TZUK’s Geologists / Palaeontologists

  1. #1
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    Calling TZUK’s Geologists / Palaeontologists

    I’m intrigued to try and find a fossil, and I know that when you find a circular rock, it’s often because of nucleation around a fossilised object inside.

    I found the rock below, and so wondered if it might have something inside?

    I wouldn’t know how to go about cracking it open - the experts seem to tap these in ‘just the right place’ and they fall open beautifully displaying an ammonite or something.

    Can anyone tell me what type of stone this is, and if there’s any chance it contains a fossil inside?

    I found it in a newly created riverbed with imported stones, so I can’t say where it originated.











    It’s pretty heavy, and solid and when I first found it (covered in muck) I thought it was an iron ball.

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    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  3. #3
    Not sure about the nucleation thing. I thought round rocks were just ones that have been smoothed round in a river it the sea. Needs to be a sedimentary rock to contain a fossil, which would normally show layers. That looks like a lump of igneous something to me

  4. #4
    We found some in Devon a couple of years ago ,these were in fallen rocks which were slate and are not too bad to crack open.
    That looks like a piece of granite that’s been tumbled for years,not sure if there would be anything in it ,but it’ll be hard to crack .


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  5. #5
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Where did you find it?
    It’s location of origin may give us few clues.
    My under graduate dissertation centred on the paleo-geography of South east England (I can’t remember any of it) - Nucleation does happen in some circumstances mostly around seeds or things round in shape. Re breaking it open it’s easier to use a geologists pick (a roofing hammer works just as well) you can use the point to aim at cracks or fissures, be careful as you could stick it through your hand as well!

    That said this looks to be a medium grained igneous rock looking at your pictures so nothing to do with a Fossil.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Agreed with the above, doesn’t look sedimentary.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Ahh, shame. Ok, thanks all!

  8. #8
    There is a chance it could be an old stone cannon ball.
    Just a guess of course.

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  9. #9
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickie View Post
    There is a chance it could be an old stone cannon ball.
    Just a guess of course.

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    This did cross my mind!

  10. #10
    Master village's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickie View Post
    There is a chance it could be an old stone cannon ball.
    Just a guess of course.

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    Is it not a bit small for that? It’s only the size of an apple.

  11. #11
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I asked an archeologist, showing her your photos, and this is her answer: (I was asking if it could be a cannon ball)

    Hmm, interesting :D
    It's totally outwith any but the most basic knowledge that I have of gunstones though.

    Ehm. It might be. They were standard sized, so we need to find the standard sizes and measure the ball and compare.
    It was skilled mason's work. If they got it wrong it jammed the barrel, backfire, or it could shatter inside the barrel and damage the lining, or it could make it totally inaccurate (and good cannoneers could be very accurate indeed, especially Royal Navy ones).

    Probably the best kind of information we could find would be from the folks who find them. Not always Archaeologists, but the folks who do the metal detecting on old Admiralty and Infantry sites. Some of those folks get terribly intense and do a tremendous amount of collecting and comparing and gathering information. Excellent folks to come across :)

    At least it's not metal. Metal ones can quite violently de-laminate themselves, especially if they've been underwater for a while.

    I ought to have asked, where did he find it ? does he have any idea of where it actually came from ?

    Colchester treasure hunting :) run down the page a bit for photos.
    http://www.colchestertreasurehunting...nnonballs.html

    This is a Polish archaeology paper that is full of information.
    https://rcin.org.pl/Content/50106/WA...rials-in_I.pdf

    and sizes :)
    https://www.arc.id.au/Cannonballs.html

    Having posted all that, I have half a dozen naturally made round stone balls. They're a little more orange sized than apple, but they came from one particular beach on the coast of Fife. No idea why the stone and the tides, etc., there makes them like this, but the lads who gave them to me said there were thousands of them there. Differing sizes, all from the same black rock, definitely natural. I wondered if they were something more volcanic, but they're dense and heavy like ordinary stone.
    Hope this helps...
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  12. #12
    It was just a guess and of course it might not be.
    I'm fairly sure there were larger and smaller sizes but it's quite round for a naturally shaped stone.
    Plus it look's like possible tooling mark's on it?

    My eyes are crap but it's a bit of fun just guessing.

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  13. #13
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Come on guys, call yourselves TZers?

    It's a fossilised slow worm egg.

  14. #14
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Is it not a bit small for that? It’s only the size of an apple.
    A guy called Boregard (sic) standardised the size of cannon balls in the early 1700s
    There were different calibers of cannon ranging from about a 3 inch bore and up.
    Prior to that it was a bit finger in the air, with a 1/4 inch or so leeway.
    Again smallest shot would be 3inches or so
    A stone ball of this size would not be that unusual, I would think it would be quite early though.


    Good God, I come across as a pedant...
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 5th April 2021 at 20:38.

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    I found mine walking through a Boulder field in North Wales and my companion said that cracked rocks usually have a fossil in them. Cracked one open with another rock and hey presto, found a fossil - think it is a Gryphaea (Devils Toenail). Not the most exciting but, hey, it was found by me so has sentimental value.

  16. #16
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    That's a geode not a fossil.
    I have one very similar here and it rattles as it has something inside of it.

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  17. #17
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktotty View Post
    That's a geode not a fossil.
    I have one very similar here and it rattles as it has something inside of it.

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    Bingo, forgot about them!
    They have often have spectacular crystal arrangements inside. The majority are quartz i.e amethyst (change the battery every three years) but you can get silicates dependant on origin. You won’t split them with a hammer, you need a decent saw.
    They are common in the Mendips. I think they are know any potatoes or potato stones there.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    Come on guys, call yourselves TZers?

    It's a fossilised slow worm egg.
    You beat me to it.
    Definitely a fossil of a slow worm lava or egg.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I asked an archeologist, showing her your photos, and this is her answer: (I was asking if it could be a cannon ball)



    Hope this helps...
    Amazing, thank you!! And to everyone else who replied!

    A cannon ball was also one of my initial thoughts.

    If I were to consider a geode, how could I get it sawn open?

  20. #20
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    Amazing, thank you!! And to everyone else who replied!

    A cannon ball was also one of my initial thoughts.

    If I were to consider a geode, how could I get it sawn open?
    We used a bandsaw at uni, blunted the blades very quickly though.

  21. #21
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Before you saw it in half, it might be useful to measure its density (drop it in a bowl full of water to the rim, and weight both the spilled water and the stone, and compare it with what you’d expect on a table. It will give you an indication of whether you’re likely to have a void or not.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  22. #22
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    Hard to tell the mineralogy from a photo but doesn’t appear to be sedimentary and highly unlikely to be a geode. Probably igneous with magnesium and iron minerals (dark “mafic” minerals).

    https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafic


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  23. #23
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Dino poo.

  24. #24
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    Dino poo.
    I had quite a good collection of coprolites when I was younger.
    They are are not as common as you might think...

    (I have always collected cr@p)

  25. #25
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    It's surprisingly difficult to identify things like this from photos (and I did this sort of thing for a most of my working life), but that looks like a piece of igneous rock - probably a granite of some sort - so sadly fossil-free. It's an OK material for stone cannon shot, but those were tooled to a more perfect roundness than that is - that wonky shape would likely jam and blow your cannon to bits, taking your gun crew and any unlucky bystanders with it!

    There's still plenty of places in Britain that you can find fossils of many different ages, so perhaps consider joining something like the Geologists' Association (Britain's largest amateur geological society, and among the oldest), or one of their local groups - they have some genuine experts leading field expeditions, so you can learn something and add to your horde of personal treasures

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    It's surprisingly difficult to identify things like this from photos (and I did this sort of thing for a most of my working life), but that looks like a piece of igneous rock - probably a granite of some sort - so sadly fossil-free. It's an OK material for stone cannon shot, but those were tooled to a more perfect roundness than that is - that wonky shape would likely jam and blow your cannon to bits, taking your gun crew and any unlucky bystanders with it!

    There's still plenty of places in Britain that you can find fossils of many different ages, so perhaps consider joining something like the Geologists' Association (Britain's largest amateur geological society, and among the oldest), or one of their local groups - they have some genuine experts leading field expeditions, so you can learn something and add to your horde of personal treasures
    Brilliant, thanks!

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