Every day is a school day Neil - never seen signs like that before.Originally Posted by Neil.C
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
No signs in our road but markings (half on road, other on pavement) show it's allowed and all curbs are low.Re Cars on pavements, not all are illegal.
Around here there are quite a few narrow residential roads where cars are encouraged to park on the pavement denoted by signs like this..
The other week I was coming up to a T junction and a scooter went across quite fast. I was possibly only doing about 15/20 mph as I had just turned in from a roundabout but the scooter rider did not appear to look in my direction whilst crossing or appear to slow down. He may well have spotted me but I am unsure.
He was riding on the footpath which is quite narrow. Did not seem safe at all.
I have a bike, which I have only used once but hoping to get out next year. I will be riding on the footpath but naturally giving fully priority to pedestrians and pulling onto the grass verge or stopping etc.
This is quite usual where I live where pedestrians & cyclists live in harmony. I have come across a mountain biker who appeared to be going for some world record and I had to step out of his way onto the grass verge. No thank you or acknowledgement.
It's so perfect for my use-case but I continue to be frustrated by the law.
There needs to be some guidance given other than "it's illegal to use except on private land". That said, I don't know what the right approach is, I don't think they they should be classed the same as bicycles, nor as motorised vehicles...
All legally sold ones are capped at 15.6 mph (same as ebikes) but 'unlocking' them seems common practice and easy to do. Similarly there's no mandate to wear a helmet. It's all too much of a grey area right now.
What else would you need to know? Presumably on 'private land' people can whizz around to their hearts content, with or without helmets and at any speed they wish. And pedestrians on public pavements would be safe.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
We have those park half on the pavement signs on my road, but then the kerb is 6-8 inches high stopping any non-SUVs from being able to do soRe Cars on pavements, not all are illegal.
Around here there are quite a few narrow residential roads where cars are encouraged to park on the pavement denoted by signs like this..
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Sorry, I meant there needs to be new laws that allow fair usage of electric scooters. I have a requirement to commute with one, and have no sensible alternative. Currently I cannot. I'm happy to insure it, MOT it (not sure how that would work) and wear any suitable safety equipment but at the moment I simply cannot use it within the law.
I just can't see that being a quick process to set up all the regulatory standards and legislation. Especially now that TfL has quite rightly banned them from being carried across the network because you can't assure the safety of all batteries bought from China. Think we have to accept that for the foreseeable future, properly regulated hiring schemes are the correct way forward across cities and personally owned commuting options are bicycles - a Brompton would probably suit your requirement equally.
Meanwhile, those that break the law will continue to do so. E-scooters have a particularly negative association at the moment because those that are happy to break the law also don't give a damn about being sensible riding them.
Bicycle,electric bicycle, moped, car, bus, train? Why can't you commute with one or more of those? Sorry, but I just don't get the need for these scooters.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Commute is 1.5 miles, individual in question has heart and lung disease, ruling out walking and cycling. We have only one car which is often needed elsewhere since the work is on an ad-hoc and self-employed basis. No direct bus available either.
I appreciate it's a unique case but the escooter is absolutely perfect for the requirements.
I guess the only current legal option is a mobility scooter then.
I think in London it is illegal to park on the pavement either wholly or partially.
Legally yes, practically no.
I see your predicament.
Perhaps the electric bicycle would be a better bet, I don't think the effort required for pedalling is that great. Maybe others would know more. It highlights the 'use public transport' argument isn't a fit one, fit all all solution.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It depends on the type of e-bike. Some are just "assisted", others will go like a mopped.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
in my area just another case of 'do what we say not what we do' , privately owned escooters are targetted by the fuzz pretty quickly round here and taken away to be destroyed - however the local clowncil has a fleet of them dotted al over the place where local scrotes are free to hire them and 'legally' tear round the pavement and dump them anywhere they wish.
See plenty of drivers smash their cars up and down big kerbs. Always makes me wonder what state the tyres and tracking are in!!
I might have seen one! BMW X5 came along our road today with the tyres making an audible scrubbing noise and squealing when driving around a mini roundabout. You could see it was toeing out about 4 inches! Don’t know how they were keeping it on the road to be honest!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Stoned or half cut ? that would explain our politicians who allow this stuff to go on !!
Not much evidence of common sense in the house but plenty of evidence that our MP's are either half cut or on the snow.
This really is bizarre - crash tests show 7mph impacts can be devastating to a body but these things can reach more than double this speed.
B
Presumably you mean the local council who introduced the scheme.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
and them too :-)
B
Boy hit by e-scooter in Grimsby suffers face and leg injuries
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-59846421
The government really need to sort out. No doubt there’ll be even more on the roads with lots given as Christmas presents.
Well they’re already illegal so what do you propose?
That doesn't really address the issue though - legal to buy, but not legal to use (in any practical use-case).
I recall a similar issue a few years ago with drones, you could buy them but there were no registrations, guidance, laws etc. With safety concerns rife it needed tackling (and was tackled).
Maybe enforcement? Insurance and registration requirement? Helmet requirement?
Seize and destroy any (non-hire) seen ridden in public.
I believe they do that, mostly... But the police doesn't have the numbers.
Having said that there were 3 of them in Oxford Street on Thursday and while a couple of electric scooters passed them by (on the road) without them raising an eyebrow, they made sure to seize and destroy the cardboard poster a bum had written that laid next to him.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
🤣🤣
Not really bothered if the idiots wipe themselves out on the road, it's the pedestrians they hit on the pavements that is my concern. And helmets will only make them feel invincible.
True. More about making them realise they’re driving a motor vehicle.
You still on the sauce from last night?!
True.
Nope, I didn’t drink. I just find it amusing that you think any of those things will make a difference. Good luck to you though.
Which is easier, a stationary person or people moving faster than walking speed? Plod seems to target the easy, as it's, erm... easy.
Kids don’t drive unlicensed moped, scooters, scrambler, cars in any way similar to scooters. Of course it will help and it’s a start.
Sure.
You don’t agree?
You should start. Might cheer you up.
I certainly don't.
Insurance, licence and helmet need the offender to be stopped first. Currently, if he is, they destroy the scooter. Anything else is mostly irrelevant.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
They are certainly a menace to some of the more marginalised members of society. Please feel free to look at the link and even sign the petition if you agree.
https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you...ns/e-scooters/
They certainly don’t always destroy the scooter.
But they don’t. I work with teenagers and they laugh that the PCSOs and police simply tell them to be careful on their way
The same lad who told me this was picking up a scrambler, his mate asked why he pushed it back and he said he’d never get caught riding it.
Based on this and general observations there is a difference . Why is this? Whilst impossible to prove it’s a reasonable hypothesis that the lack of rules and regulations embolden scooter users and certainly don’t empower Police to tackle them.
Knowing that riding a scooter in a public space is already illegal, what makes you think that the same police or PCSO would act differently?
- - - Updated - - -
In this case it's the lack of consistency that needs to be addressed.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I just gave my reason.
Honestly you didn't. Just because one lad told you he'd use one and not the other doesn't make it a good reason except perhaps for him.
Things are either legal to use or they are not.
Destroying the scooters when caught is only a deterrent if the rider is the owner (or family, if they care), but it has the advantage of removing them from the streets. Making them illegal to sell until they are allowed on the road would be the best way but it will not happen.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
TBH, if London is a benchmark (perhaps it's not?) then it's beyond fixable - there are thousands and thousands of them all over the place.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I’m sorry, you’re Inspector Javert, your absolutely correct. The law is absolutely black and white and it is always enforced to its fullest, I understand now.
Now you're being silly.
Remember you are the one who suggested to add other legal constraints, which is not only useless but also would require scooters to be made legal which is in complete contradiction with your intended result.
It's non sensical, whether you read (and understood) Hugo or not.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
There are numerous trials on rental companies to help decide whether they’ll become legal or not. In Bristol you can’t but drive in the centre without seeing dozens of Voi scooters and what feels like nearly as many private scooters. I can assure you they will brazenly drive past police or anyone else. Perhaps the issue is more profound here as private scooters feel more reasonable in Bristol due to the hundreds of rentals.
Apparently they’ve been a success, I believe they’re here to stay so the quicker the trial is deemed a success the quicker the next phase will likely come. Which I imagine will be more rental companies and possibly rules and clarification around what the next steps are for private scooters.
Ultimately these are pioneering days for scooters and once they become common place I’m sure regulation will follow, and with that there may be more willing from Police to enforce rules.
I do appreciate what you’re saying and it may be the case in other cities but certainly not Bristol
What do you mean ‘a lack of rules and regulations’ they’re illegal! Much the same as an unlicensed scrambler.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote