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Thread: Audi A1 versus VW Polo - alleged damage and how best to handle ?

  1. #51
    Hi

    FYI -

    Having spoken further with James' insurers today they have said IF we do come to a private agreement , they will call the 3rd party directly to confirm they are happy with the settlement ( and therefore will not be filing any other claim via their own Insurer's ).

    Best Neil

  2. #52
    Does said friend have a letterbox?

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    FYI -

    Having spoken further with James' insurers today they have said IF we do come to a private agreement , they will call the 3rd party directly to confirm they are happy with the settlement ( and therefore will not be filing any other claim via their own Insurer's ).

    Best Neil
    For that call alone his insurance is going up next year, claim or not

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    For that call alone his insurance is going up next year, claim or not
    Not sure who I hate more. Insurance companies or solicitors!

  5. #55
    I think £350 is the least of the worry compared to insurance excess and hassle

    If heís having you over for a few quid so be it

    Iíd get it in writing thatís the end of it at £350 though


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mjc1216 View Post
    You have to notify the insurance company that there has been an accident even if you are not making a claim.

    You could agree to pay the money and settle it but it could come back to bite you.

    https://www.beckettandco.co.uk/notif...otor-insurers/
    Yeah right...... everybody does that donít they.....


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  7. #57
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    So the alleged damage to the polo was caused by the white A1?
    That doesnít look possible, but I am no expert.

    As we know insurance companies like to look after themselves primarily, IMO, and pay out whatever is the
    smaller cost to them.

    With those pictures posted the damage does not look possible, and if there is any possibility of previous damage to same spot, a claim canít be upheld.

    Someone rear ended my Toyota hilux a few years ago, it ended up getting written off, but the 3rd part claimed I rolled back into him, rather than him driving at speed into my rear. £3k worth of damage is hardly a roll back claim...however I digress, in the 18 it took to get to court, whilst the hilux was still usable, I was getting served in a bakers one day - with , full witnesses present ,someone reversed into the opposite side of where my damage was.
    Turns out even though it was a seperate claim, it wouldnít be upheld/admissible as it would be ressonably well contested the damage was already there....

    Not sure if the guy ever bought a lottery ticket that night....

  8. #58
    Hi

    UPDATE -

    So the ex-friend has agreed in principle to accept my counter offer of £250.00p.

    This appears to be the lesser of the two evils at play here and the smoother path to proceed.

    Before I part with any £s , any suggestions/links to some suitable wording/template to be used and sent via email for signoff by the 3rd party ?

    Best Neil

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweepinghand View Post
    Yeah right...... everybody does that donít they.....
    Damned if you do (higher premiums); damned if you don't (potentially invalid insurance).

    And the OP's son is "putting something in writing" so there's evidence ....

  10. #60
    Master TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    My understanding is that you should use the term;

    "full and final payment"

    On the doc you both sign...

  11. #61
    Master TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    OP... Can I ask...

    I mentioned above a very similar situation occurred with me a few years ago and I deeply regret informing the insurer.

    Could you please let us know in the future if the lads insurance premium is impacted by this ?

    Mine was and I hope his is not.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    UPDATE -

    So the ex-friend has agreed in principle to accept my counter offer of £250.00p.

    This appears to be the lesser of the two evils at play here and the smoother path to proceed.

    Before I part with any £s , any suggestions/links to some suitable wording/template to be used and sent via email for signoff by the 3rd party ?

    Best Neil
    Payment in full and final settlement of your alleged claim, this payment is not an acceptance of your claim or an admission of liability.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    UPDATE -

    So the ex-friend has agreed in principle to accept my counter offer of £250.00p.

    This appears to be the lesser of the two evils at play here and the smoother path to proceed.

    Before I part with any £s , any suggestions/links to some suitable wording/template to be used and sent via email for signoff by the 3rd party ?

    Best Neil
    Hi

    It's all gone VERY quiet....

    Not sure what to make of it , either backed off completely following my email for T&Cs of settlement or they are going directly to Insurer's ?

    Best Neil

  14. #64
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    If that Polo went in for repair under insurance they would write it off, 100% guaranteed that would be a cat N or whatever the modern, not economical repair thing is.
    I find it very odd that nobody noticed contact that took 8 feet of bodywork out either!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    It's all gone VERY quiet....

    Not sure what to make of it , either backed off completely following my email for T&Cs of settlement or they are going directly to Insurer's ?

    Best Neil
    Sounds like good news, probably cold feet as they seem to be attempting to defraud you and/or the insurance company.

    If you appraised your insurer no further action at this point.

  16. #66
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    Not sure

    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    UPDATE -

    So the ex-friend has agreed in principle to accept my counter offer of £250.00p.

    This appears to be the lesser of the two evils at play here and the smoother path to proceed.

    Before I part with any £s , any suggestions/links to some suitable wording/template to be used and sent via email for signoff by the 3rd party ?

    Best Neil
    where I got this nor can I guarantee it is legally binding but itís a good starting point.

    https://1drv.ms/w/s!Aq_Dh95BwPRUjXb0V52tP1L24U8h

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not sure 'buying his way out' would be an issue as he's paying for a repair in good faith rather than trying to defraud, but …

    I can't imagine them claiming anyway because it's not about getting the car repaired, it's about getting some easy cash. The insurance company would insist on the repair with no money going to the friend so no point to it. And his insurance would be affected as well for raising a claim.

    The more I think about it, the more I'd be inclined to tell friend to go through the proper insurance channels. I bet £50 to the fundraiser that he doesn't.
    Hi

    Further ( surprising ) update....formal Insurance claim has been received this afternoon & communicated via phone call.

    This could get interesting !

    Any bets placed or hat eaters - please make good on your word....

    Best Neil
    Last edited by flame; 30th March 2021 at 17:45.

  18. #68
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    I'm no expert but I'd be fascinated to see how anyone could try to substantiate that the A1 can suffer minimal paint loss while causing any appreciable element of that. It would appear to me that for instance the white line on the Polo is inconsistent with the A1, I'd understand it a bit better if it was the other bumper on the A1 as the car was driven forwards, but can't correlate the near side bumper causing that. Those Polos are solid, I suspect the true damage caused is minimal.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    Further ( surprising ) update....formal Insurance claim has been received this afternoon & communicated via phone call.

    This could get interesting !

    Any bets placed or hat eaters - please make good on your word....

    Best Neil
    I bet the parents are now involved in a face saving exercise now, possibly they will now be attempting insurance fraud.

    Hopefully your insurance company will do the right thing and fight the claim, sadly all too often they just pay up as itís cheaper for them.

  20. #70
    As the person claimed against, is there anything you can do to ensure your insurance investigate suspected fraud. Is it purely a civil matter or potentially criminal?

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ernestrome View Post
    As the person claimed against, is there anything you can do to ensure your insurance investigate suspected fraud. Is it purely a civil matter or potentially criminal?
    Hi

    I've highlighted our concerns to the insurance rep who rang this afternoon re pre-existing damage/cash raising exercise. He also looked at the images and was sceptical re this particular claim.

    He is going to refer it to a suitably qualified person/professional for initial review/comment and then ( if necessary ) will be instructing an assessor to see both vehicles.

    Let's see where it goes....

    Best Neil

  22. #72
    Good and good luck.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    I've highlighted our concerns to the insurance rep who rang this afternoon re pre-existing damage/cash raising exercise. He also looked at the images and was sceptical re this particular claim.

    He is going to refer it to a suitably qualified person/professional for initial review/comment and then ( if necessary ) will be instructing an assessor to see both vehicles.

    Let's see where it goes....

    Best Neil
    I had a home insurance issue which the insurer should have recovered from my neighbour but they wouldnít even though they agreed in principle that they should but they didnít as it wasnít worth the costs.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    Further ( surprising ) update....formal Insurance claim has been received this afternoon & communicated via phone call.

    This could get interesting !

    Any bets placed or hat eaters - please make good on your word....

    Best Neil
    Ah feck, on both counts

    It's pay day tomorrow so I'll make good.

    I have to say, I'm surprised they're bothering and it could go pear-shaped if they're found to be making an exaggerated claim.

    As someone else said, it's probably the stubborn parents not wanting to 'lose', but seems absurd assuming the car really was battered in the first place.

    Keep us updated.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    Further ( surprising ) update....formal Insurance claim has been received this afternoon & communicated via phone call.

    This could get interesting !

    Any bets placed or hat eaters - please make good on your word....

    Best Neil
    Thatís amazing and disappointing in equal measures. Just shows how entitled some people are these days. Assume a whiplash claim will be along soon as well.

    Hope you get it sorted either way. And think on the bright side at least your son knows who his friends are now!

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Does said friend have a letterbox?
    Is it too early to repeat?

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Is it too early to repeat?
    Yes.

  28. #78
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    At this stage I would now stand down and leave it with your insurers to deal with. The more you say the more you may implicate yourself, so you would be better to deal with your insurers only at this stage and leave the burden of 'proving liability and responsibility' with the insurers to argue.

    It does look like the other party are trying to stiff you though given the small scuff on the A1.

  29. #79
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernestrome View Post
    As the person claimed against, is there anything you can do to ensure your insurance investigate suspected fraud. Is it purely a civil matter or potentially criminal?
    Suspicions of fraud should be reported for sure. Depending on the OPís line of business he may have a professional duty to report.

  30. #80
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    The insurance investigator standards procedure would include check if the Polo has been the subject of previous claims and if it has been written off of any claimant history.

    The insurance fraud bureau and city of london police can charge with insurance fraud on fraudulent claims included inflated value.

    I do feel sorry for your son, a train of events is now in motion and you can now longer stop it with a reasonable solution.

    I hope the peer pressure of their common friends is being carefully managed.

  31. #81
    Hi

    As it's been a while , time for an interim update

    So , several weeks ago I rang our Son's insurers ( Smart Wheels aka RSA ) to see how things were progressing. I was informed by the lady on the phone that RSA had found against us and instructed the repairs to the 3rd party's car to proceed !

    This led to me questioning whether anyone had actually reviewed the images & comments of the claim and confirmed we would not accept the quantum part of the claim and suggested anything they had agreed to was retracted.

    4x hours later I received a call back to confirm everything was now on hold and that an independent assessor had been instructed to report on both vehicles.

    Now it gets really interesting , as a couple of weeks later my Son informs me that the 3rd parties car has been repaired. Not just the damage to the rear driver's side passenger door , but ALL the historic damage to both sides and rear of the vehicle. I check once again with RSA and they confirm all the repairs are still on hold , however the 3rd parties insurers may have gone ahead still - I reiterate our position.

    Now following the above news , the independent assessor ( Hoopers ) visit & write a report on my Son's car , something along the lines of very light/slight evidence of collision , no structural damage.

    However , Hoopers are unable to date to gain access to the 3rd parties car ( which sits on their drive approx 1/2 mile away ) despite phone call , email & letter sent. They've basically gone quiet on them....and this has been going on since 07/05/21.

    I'm waiting on the Claim handler at RSA to give me a call with what now actually happens it this situation continues ?

    Best Neil
    Last edited by flame; 9th June 2021 at 12:40.

  32. #82
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    What a waste of time and money, all caused by someone trying it on.

    No wonder premiums are high.

  33. #83
    Perhaps the third party have gone to their own insurers to deal with the repairs to their vehicle and they will subsequently approach your sonís insurer for recovery of their outlay. Maybe they paid extra for other damage to be fixed whilst it was in the bodyshop?

    Itís not worth the mental turmoil to be worrying about what the third party has or hasnít claimed for. Your son has an at fault claim to declare. The value of said claim will have negligible impact on how his premium is loaded.

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfupanda View Post
    Perhaps the third party have gone to their own insurers to deal with the repairs to their vehicle and they will subsequently approach your sonís insurer for recovery of their outlay. Maybe they paid extra for other damage to be fixed whilst it was in the bodyshop?

    Itís not worth the mental turmoil to be worrying about what the third party has or hasnít claimed for. Your son has an at fault claim to declare. The value of said claim will have negligible impact on how his premium is loaded.
    Hi

    Thanks for the reply....which I accept & broadly agree with.

    I don't quite follow why the 3rd parties insurers would proceed with any repair ( during late April ) prior to the independent assessor's report being issued ( still OS ) which could support their client's case ? I'm of the opinion we could have sorted it with bottle of T-cut....so I'm assuming the repairs to any damage of the 3rd parties car caused by my son need to have been fully documented ( both written & digital images ) and itemised ?

    Failure to allow access to the repaired vehicle also has a certain aroma to it.

    Best Neil

  35. #85
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    I'd be searching social media and the site he bought the car from (as it was said earlier that existing damage lowered the price) for photographic evidence of prior damage. Then forward it to the insurance company if relevant.

    All this presumes that the damage wasn't caused by 'the knock' I had a Hyundai that was involved in 2 front end accidents in a matter of weeks. the total damage was a cracked headlight lens and a scuff on the bumper, the other cars were rather worse off. One eventually being written off. So it can happen that extensive damage to one car isn't mirrored by similar damage to the other.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    Thanks for the reply....which I accept & broadly agree with.

    I don't quite follow why the 3rd parties insurers would proceed with any repair ( during late April ) prior to the independent assessor's report being issued ( still OS ) which could support their client's case ? I'm of the opinion we could have sorted it with bottle of T-cut....so I'm assuming the repairs to any damage of the 3rd parties car caused by my son need to have been fully documented ( both written & digital images ) and itemised ?

    Failure to allow access to the repaired vehicle also has a certain aroma to it.

    Best Neil
    m


    Perhaps the third party is insured on a fully comp basis and his insurer are on the hook for any repair whether the damage is down to his own negligence or somebody elseís. Therefore theyíve just gone ahead with the totality of the repairs with a view to recovering part of their outlay from your sonís insurers.

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfupanda View Post
    m


    Perhaps the third party is insured on a fully comp basis and his insurer are on the hook for any repair whether the damage is down to his own negligence or somebody elseís. Therefore theyíve just gone ahead with the totality of the repairs with a view to recovering part of their outlay from your sonís insurers.
    Hi

    Thanks again for the reply....

    and it's the above bit I'd like them to provide proof of actual damage caused & quantum for fixing - is that possible from my PoV ?

    Best Neil

  38. #88
    I think they need to prove there is damage to their car and that your son did it., if you feel that strongly about it, isnít it time for to see a solicitor? If the other side make it complicated the insurance company will just pay out and make it your fault.

    An example

    Several years ago I was involved in an accident, I was stationary waiting to turn right and had been for some time, a car drive into the back of me, writing off both cars with no witnesses, he admitted full responsibility to both myself and the police. He then told his insurance company that I pulled out of a bus stop straight in front of him, they believed him and paid out, they didnít even query it.
    Last edited by adrianw; 9th June 2021 at 16:46.

  39. #89
    I was hit by a driver whilst I was riding to work. Bike totaled, woman apologetic.

    Next thing I get is a claim from her saying I damaged her car. She said I overtook her on the entrance to a roundabout and cut across her.

    I had the evidence (GPS tracking, thanks Strava) that proved she was lying as I came from a completely different direction.

    They found in my favour instantly. I asked if they would take any action against the dodgy claimant and they said they never do. They won't even refuse her next renewal even though she lied.

    So nothing will happen here unless the police somehow find out and decide to do something about it.

  40. #90
    So with these stories in mind - why would you ever tell your own insurance company anything - it clearly does not matter ….

    Its a shame that besides looking for the best cost motor insurance there was not a ranking on how well they fight for you.. I mean if they cannot be bothered or will just pay out with any investigation I would cross them off my list.

    Hope it all gets sorted !

    cheers

    matt

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    So with these stories in mind - why would you ever tell your own insurance company anything - it clearly does not matter Ö.

    Its a shame that besides looking for the best cost motor insurance there was not a ranking on how well they fight for you.. I mean if they cannot be bothered or will just pay out with any investigation I would cross them off my list.

    Hope it all gets sorted !

    cheers

    matt
    Thank you Matt !

    Refreshing post 😀

    Best Neil

  42. #92
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    Similar story here re dodgy claims. On my motorbike a car driver went to change lanes on a dual carriageway and didn't see me. He pulled over, apologised, admitted liability, then tried to give me cash to not go through the insurance. I said I'd get a quote from a local garage and he could pay them. He agreed.

    I sent him the quote, he told me to f off, hung up, and when I called the insurance they said I was speeding, hit into him and there were five people in the car all with whiplash and as it's was a lane change accident without any witnesses it would have to go 50/50.

    I had a GoPro on my helmet which showed everything - including just him in the car without any passengers - they paid out instantly. Now I have a dash cam in the car too.

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