Reply With QuoteI’d go F355 Berlinetta for screaming about and a Bentley Continental GTC for wafting.
Edit: a customer of mine is emigrating and is selling his Mc 570 if of interest?
Yes. Another bloody car thread. I am at, or rapidly approaching, that age where I will be reaching a significant birthday in a little over a year and fortunately will have a fair amount of funds available (sale of a property, and highly likely selling off a number of watches that have increased significantly in the last 5-10 years). I could do something more sensible with the funds, but I’ve decided that something of a treat is a likely purchase - life really is just too short. Late mid life crisis here we come :)
Ive looked at lots of usual suspects, and a few oddballs, and now I’m really trying to narrow down the choices in order that I can keep an eye on prices and any specifications to my liking, in order to buy if the right car comes up.
Ideally used, as I don’t particularly want a huge amount of the initial depreciation if possible. I’m also not adverse to having two cars to cover all needs. Total spend which could include selling off all my current cars, if required, might stretch to £100k, but hopefully doable for less.
The only real requirement is that it should be something that I could keep for the next 20 years. I’ve kept my current Boxster S for around 15 years, and we are generally a family of hoarders and rarely sell things.
Ive considered/considering the following:
BMW M4 CS, and an Ariel Atom 4 (or a Porsche 718 GTS)
BMW i8 Coupe and a Boxster Convertible or i8 Roadster and the M4 CS perhaps
Porsche Carrera 4 GTS 991.2 anyone have experience? Could I realistically use it as an only car everyday?
Nissan GTR, and a cheap convertible - maybe something like a Fiat 124
Gallardo Coupe/Spyder LP 640-4 (and keep my current 3 series BMW)
McLaren 570S (again keeping the 3 series BMW) the price of renewing the warranty scares me off a little though
Audi R8 (and keep the 3 Series, or maybe add an M4/M3 depending on how much the R8 costs)
The running costs of the 911 or R8’s seem much more sensible, especially the 911’s, when compared to the other exotics and even the Nissan GTR!
Any personal experiences much appreciated.
It's just a matter of time...
I’d go F355 Berlinetta for screaming about and a Bentley Continental GTC for wafting.
Edit: a customer of mine is emigrating and is selling his Mc 570 if of interest?
Last edited by Dave O'Sullivan; 14th March 2021 at 20:14.
I had an M3CS and can say the tweaks they did make it a very, very good car - total maniac and super responsive for a front engine but with enough comforts to be a daily; plus the rarity should see them be a good long-termer, can't recall the exact M4 numbers as it wasn't a limited run like the M3 (100 total in UK) but it's likely a couple hundred max here. Highly recommend you aim for the CCB carbon brakes if you do go that way.
A nice problem! Having pondered I think the exact same question I came down to R8 or GT-R being the answer.
Your stipulation that it must go 20 years pretty much rules out the McLaren.
Personally I’d have one car only and make it a 911 (992). If you are happy to spend the full 100k you could make it an S with room for a few boxes ticked.
Last edited by Justin Case; 14th March 2021 at 20:24.
I've had one or two of those including the Porsche 991 GTS. The GTS's are the sweet spot in the Porsche range (also had the Cayman). Could you use the 991 GTS as a daily driver? Subject to you never needing to carry more than one passenger or very small children, I'd say you certainly could. Great car but I didn't keep mine because it wasn't really practical for MY daily needs, and not really special enough for a 'just go for a drive' car.
I’m just not convinced I’m a Ferrari buyer/driver. As nice as they are, it’s just never been an aspiration. I’m a good way away from committing though - unless the absolute perfect car came along.Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan
I’m impressed with the look of the CS, and at a little over 50% of their initial pricing they seem good value, with a little risk of losing a bit short term, but long term might even appreciate. I turned down a v low mileage M3CSL some years ago when someone I worked with needed cash quickly and needed to offload his at £28k!!!
As much as I like the 992, I wouldn’t be happy knowingly going into it and watching £40k of depreciation over a few years. Hence deciding on a 991.2 C4 GTS if I was going 911. I’d then likely have Litchfield make it quicker than a standard 991.1 Turbo ;)
I really like the 991 GTS. I’m a huge Porsche fan (and BMW for that matter), and would absolutely love one. Litchfield stage one tune regularly increases power to over 540bhp, so I’d have no real need of the Turbo/S - although the new 992 Turbo S looks like the most amazing/capable daily driver. Ms O is only petite and may even fit in the back for a short drive - she fits in most 2+2’s that don’t recommend anyone with legs lol
Ideally, I’d have the 991 and the M4 CS - but I think that is pushing the budget just a bit too far.
I suppose I could always add the M4 CS quite soon, and see if the 991’s continue to come down a little on price over the next year or two, but an i8 is also appealing and 20’s of thousands cheaper than the GTS at the minute.
It's just a matter of time...
You know I’m going to recommend you look at the Lotus Evora GT410! Or even a GT430 if you can find one. There is a GTE on auto trader at the moment, one of 20 worldwide (apparently).
What a nice problem to have mate!
I love the Nissan GTR... but if not it's the 911 for me!
IMHO in 20 years, petrol powered cars will be history which means your purchase has potential to be an investment. Plenty of exotic cars in the mix but short term, some of them may be expensive to run. I would go with something by Porsche on the basis that many of their models can by used everyday, good network of independents and not particularly mechanically temperamental.
How about Cayman GT4? 981 model. Prices are reasonable and likely won't suffer over 20 years. Look and sound great.
Im not convinced on a Lotus. I did have a sorted 220 Turbo. However, the state of some roads just aren’t suited that much - but on a clear stretch on nice roads I’m sure it would be a similar delight.
Both very tempting - I need to take a closer look at the GTR. A client has a brand new one, so I might see if the interiors have improved. The last one I drove was a 2011/2012 car some years ago. The 911 is my default choice.
I do think it would be hard to overlook Porsche - the independents make it a very cheap car to look after, well considering the performance at least.
I love them, but I would have preferred the option of a PDK. They have come down considerably in price recently too, high increases the appeal.
It's just a matter of time...
My neighbour is CFO at McLaren & brings home range of exotics, unfortunately due to the design of his double garage (pillar between) he cannot fit one in his garage - unlucky otherwise he would have one on the company scheme.
720s, various other models but an orange LT (4 ex pipes exit above bumper central) did if for me, pure sex & rattled my windows on start up.
Not a good investment new but sh they look better value, every kid & adult stopped to either look or take a cheeky photo.
The 720s is stunning, and incredibly quick. I was very surprised by how comfortable the car was, and the visibility etc. Money no object I would definitely have one (although there are quite a few other cars I’d have in their too) in my garage.
It's just a matter of time...
How much of a factor is servicing options on the IOM in any decision Scott?
Quote: “I’m not convinced on a Lotus. I did have a sorted 220 Turbo. However, the state of some roads just aren’t suited that much - but on a clear stretch on nice roads I’m sure it would be a similar delight.”
I drove an Evora S a week after having taken a V8 M3 out for a ‘spirited drive’. The Evora really impressed me handling and speed wise, but I was impressed the most when I took a wrong turn and ended up driving down a road that had its top surface scrapped off for a refurb. The Evora just sailed over it; it would have been a nightmare in the M3. Lotus have managed to set the Evora up beautifully - they have many ‘character traits’ (i.e. flaws) but the road-holding is lovely.
Curve ball: the new Corvette looks lovely and will be on sale in the UK soon. I know nothing else about the car though - no idea about depreciation etc!
Not too much of an issue. Well that’s not 100% true at the minute with Covid and the island effectively being locked down. But ordinarily I’d just schedule a trip over to the UK and have the car/cars serviced over there if there wasn’t a competent garage over here.
- - - Updated - - -
You should have held on to that 5711 a little longer Tony ;)Blimey. Puts my imminent viewing of a Ford Focus into perspective
It's just a matter of time...
For me the Lotus of choice would be an Exige or an Elise for a purely fun car.
The Corvette is an interesting one. But at £82k standard for the Coupe, it could be a hugely depreciating car, or a slow steady decline if the numbers are kept quite small. For that money or similar/a little more I’d prefer a good used version of the new shape NSX.
It's just a matter of time...
Tough Q Scott!
McLaren have had some bad press on reliability etc. and the prices have reflected this.
A mate has a GTR and he raves about it after having a few decent high end stuff, but many (most?) have been messed with by the owners, which would not sit well with me.
If an older BMW is worthy, them an M3 CSL with a manual conversion will keep it's money all day long.
Looked at and drove an i8 - liked it but would need a second car for practicality.
991 Turbo S (without PCCB) would be an option - and probably a decent buy right now given where the market seems to be pushed.
It should be an easy call, except it is not!.
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 15th March 2021 at 00:34.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Wow, I tip my hat and envy your position. Personally if I could I’d be buying a Porsche 911. It just seems to tick every box for me.
For £100k for me the only choice would be a Tesla Model S in Performance Spec. Nothing petrol is getting close to the acceleration unless you have Bugatti money. Practical too which seemed to be one of your requirements
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I think the McLaren is just a heart thing. They look fantastic, and the performance is better than anything else for the price.
The GTR could be useable as a daily, but the running costs look similar to a proper super car.
With the i8, I would definitely have another car, and they have now dropped enough in price to make that viable. I do have a thing for the i8 as well, and I don’t need ultimate performance in my older age ;)
I haven’t driven the 991 Turbo, but they do look incredible. I’ve driven a couple of 991.2’s in both rear and four wheels drive, and loved them both.
Likely to be a choice of a Porsche of some description, or the i8. But once I can get out more I’ll look at lots of cars. I think we will have another 2-4 weeks lockdown here unfortunately.
It's just a matter of time...
I doubt I’ll ever buy or consider a Tesla. For me driving is about enjoying corners. Something that a heavy electric is going to have problems overcoming. Straight line acceleration once I’m around 4 secs or less 0-60, is completely irrelevant.
They are also shockingly badly put together in my experience from having a look round a few - and my next door neighbour has one.
It's just a matter of time...
I wonder whether it’d last 20 years though.
To make cars feel special I like stark contrasts between them to give maximum variety. For instance a 911 will not feel so fast if you use it as a daily driver.
Have you driven an i8 or GTR? I had an i8 on test for a week and found it dull to drive, it wasn’t fast nor practical so couldn’t really understand the point of it. The GTR is quick but pretty heavy. Atoms are ballistically quick but don’t suit my driving style and the only car I’ve ever managed to spin on track.
Have you considered a Caterham 420 or 620r? Exige is a good call too and proven to be slow depreciators, unless you’re me and pile 10k miles on it and then sell 2 years ago and lose the best part of £17k, but mine was new.
What about a classic, it’s likely that it will be worth at least what you pay for it in 20 years time?
Last edited by Alex L; 15th March 2021 at 00:44.
Buy the best Bentley Continental GT you can afford.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...8&modal=photos
And a crappy old VW or Audi something, to use when you need to blend in.
One life, live it!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I agree Scott, QC is not great - if it's a lease, then it matters not a great deal, when it goes back it will be filed under the 'had some fun' folder.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
All very good points.
I’m not a fan of the Caterhams - well as far as owning goes. I’ve had fun on tracks with them.
A classic doesn’t appeal- my brother has been hitting me with lots of options in that respect too.
The 3.0 Turbo 911’s can be made ballistically with fairly easily. The GTS is hitting 0-60 in 3 secs before adding another 90-120bhp and a similar increase in torque (all for around £1k!) - tuners are loving the engine and just how much more power is easily achievable. It’s very appealing as I could add updates and more performance during years of ownership. The running costs look very reasonable too, and there are more well respected independents than almost any other make.
Surprisingly the 570s was cheaper than almost all the above options, apart from an R8, to insure!
The i8 the most expensive - probably the cost of the carbon chassis (although so is the McLaren). A V8 R8 seemed incredibly cheap to insure, around £300-£350.
It's just a matter of time...
Not sure what age you are ..... but if you are say 45 and want this car to be around in 20 years then you need to factor in that getting in and out and comfort might become paramount to enjoying your experience
For the parameters you have set I would say a 911 is the way to go. But I’d strongly consider a Bentley for the future years .....
Nice problem to have.
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It would be A Cayman GTS out of that lot
PDK version of the 718 4 litre is now out.
Don't see any advantage in a 911 over a Cayman especially with the size of 911s now.
Coincidentally Harry’s Garage has just posted a review of a csl with a manual conversion, looks and sounds great
Reckon he wants something sensible really. I mean 911s and such aren't exactly outrageous are they?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
A GT4 for fun and a TTRS for runs to the tip.
If you really want PDK then a Cayman R and an M2 Competition.
The McL 720S is a Great car, ride is superb and very fast, at the moment they are very good value. I had a 2018 M4cp and hated it, to get it right you have to invalidate the warranty.
Have you considered a used Noble M600? you wont find a negative thing written about them,
I use a tuned Noble M400 as a toy and an AMG GT as a barge, it has worked out to be a great solution, if I have to be very sensible the wife has an electric Jag SUV.
It would be for my 50th, so entry and ease of use could be a consideration, but my mother still drives her MR2 regularly at almost 75, and I’m a lot more agile and flexible that my parent were even at my age ;)
I am heavily leaning towards the 911 - but the specification I want is right at the top of my man maths if I keep a 2nd run around saloon car for convenience.
Bentley might not have everything I was looking for, but could be a semi sensible choice and I loved being taken for a quick drive in the V8 GT.
The 20 years isn’t a necessity. I just really would like to consider buying something that I’d be happy to own in 20 years time. I’m sure a 911, GTR, i8, NSX, and even an M4 would still be lovely cars if looked after in 20 years. But there would be nothing really stopping me from selling. I just don’t think I will be in the same position again to “upgrade” at a future date - so if there was a model which actually appreciated and there was a small potential
to swap for a newer version for little extra outlay, that would be perfect, but unlikely.
Great call - but a new car, and no doubt prone to depreciation, and huge cost of options. I’d also expect a stage one tuned 2.5 GTS to be significantly quicker than the new 4.0. If they were 18 months to 2 years old, then it might be an option, but I’d feel hard in watching a £75k Cayman drop to around £45k over a few years of use.
I need to take a look. But... I honestly think I’d prefer the M4 CS for daily long term use.
They are popular for a reason. Quick, well built and very versatile.
If the 981 GT4 had come with a PDK box, I think I’d just go and find a nice one and be done.
Maybe it would be a future buy if I don’t go too outrageous, and I may be looking for a 718 GT4 PDK for my 60th :)
Not sure a TT would suit my every other needs though ;)
It's just a matter of time...
Having been down this path before I'd take a good look at use / lifestyle. There are certain cars which are fantastic for going out for a drive in and putting a smile on your face, but you quickly realise you don't want to use them for many day to day driving needs because it's icy, you have to park somewhere un-suited, have a number of passengers etc. In which case the two car model normally prevails, unless of course you end up frustrated at the lack of use of the "dream" car. Sometimes the hunt and anticipation can be greater than actually owning it, a bit like a steel Daytona. I'm guessing that certain petrol "exotica" will hold their value really well for a 20 year hold given the 2030 phase out.
Isn’t the M600 a £200k car? They look amazing and obviously have crazy performance - but might be quite a stretch, and would definitely necessitate a 2nd car.
Agreed. I could happily live with a 2 seater, and regularly drove my Boxster or ride one of the motorbikes, but that was when my ex also drove an estate, if we ever needed a little more room.
Im moving away from the idea of anything too exotic. But a 911, the i8, or a GTR all have tiny rear seats. Would fit some shopping, or overnight bags, and no doubt cope with mundane drives, and faster trips over the TT mountain section on a good day :)
It's just a matter of time...
As someone who owns a lowly Ford Fiesta all I can say is what I would do in your position so this comes with no experience of ever owned a fast/expensive car. In fact, the fastest car I've ever had was a Mini Cooper S which was a hoot to drive and were it not for the hard ride and lack of space, I would certainly consider buying a Mini Cooper now.
I love the Bentley Continental GT - actually, I love the older bentleys/RR/Aston Martins but I would have a two car set up: a sensible four door car and a Porsche 911 - manual gearbox, minimal luxuries but something that would provide me with pure enjoyment when driving, especially on the twisties.
I've quoted your views on the Tesla as I completely agree with them - very nice, futuristic car but I much prefer a car which has less gadgets, requires more driver engagement and generates more fun....even a slower car that you can drive more enthusiastically would give me more satisfaction.
The carbon sport is closer to 300k, but there are some used cars about
Romans seem to get them https://www.romansinternational.com/...m600-for-sale/
DK Engineering have one https://www.dkeng.co.uk/ferrari-sale...oble_m600.html
The Factory do get used ones so might be worth giving them a call, this one is nice but expensive https://www.noblecars.com/preowned.html
I don't know your budget but early cars are about 150k
As you’ve owned/own a Porsche I would say its very hard to settle on other makes. Yes they might be faster, more exotic etc but there are not many sports cars you can pile on the mileage without having to worry about it. Reliability, Low depreciation and relatively low maintenance costs are also hard to beat.
Ive got a 991.1 C4GTS which I’ve had 6 years and cannot see myself ever selling while I’m still able to drive 😃
I originally wanted a 991Turbo S but when I test drove it, it was just too quick and didn’t come alive (imho) until speeds 90+ Which actually made it mundane for everyday use. The GTS is far more involving at usable speeds and the 991.1 soundtrack makes me grin every time I drive
I just noticed that The Auto Lounge have got a stunning 650S,
https://theautolounge.co.uk/stock/
I’m definitely more inclined to something that’s a fun drive, or even just a bit different, hence my like of the i8. A Porsche seems the obvious answer. They are just very solid on the whole, and generally look great as they age; which isn’t something you can say about all cars.
Definitely stretching my comfort zone, and I’d really need to be under £100k in total, which might need to include a cheaper 4-5 seater if something a little more extreme was being added.
I think that’s a conclusion I’m coming to. It’s going to be hard to overlook the C4GTS. It’s got everything I like about a car, and would be reasonably practical, for me anyway. I would rarely take any car off island, and most drives are under 100 miles on a very good day, and maybe 10-20 on an average work day.
An M4 CS and the 911 C4 GTS would look lovely outside/inside my garage, but I’m probably a little shy of being able to afford both of those, and would like have to compromise on one to make something similar work.
That is lovely!
I’m probably going to discount a McLaren at this point though, as I’m just too nervous of the warranty and potential ownership costs that come with it as a long term decision. I think the same goes for Lamborghini, Ferrari, Aston, or anything else too specialist or exotic.
As boring as it sounds I think I’m going to have to look for an element of long term reliability, reasonable running costs, good dealer/independent network.
It's just a matter of time...
I was in a similar situation last year so have gone though a lot of the similar thinking process. If you intend to keep a car for 20 years then I would advise you don't listen to the head too much and go with the heart as nothing short of excitement at the very thought of the car every time will keep the love alive long term.
No matter which path I took, it led me to the 911. I considered pretty much every car listed in this thread, but for me the choice was clear. Having driven a number of different variants on both road and track, nothing else could live up to it (rightly or wrongly, my heart was set). The main issue for me became which one. My dream car was always the original 930, but I thought I should be more sensible and the 997.1 turbo manual was the ultimate compromise. More compact than the 991, still with the Mezger engine and hydraulic steering, but huge performance and modern reliability. It ticked all the boxes for me. In the end I also bought a 930, but that doesn't diminish just how much I like the 997, quite the opposite, it definitely made me realise that I like having three cars: a classic and modern sports cars and a cheap runabout. I don't like piling pointless miles on the "special" cars, plus having two spreads that out, while the utility car does all of the boring stuff.
A lot of great suggestions but I'd be tempted by a Porsche first and a Bentley second. I'm tempted by a Cayman GTS in a few years for my 40th.
Overall cost of ownership would be a big factor in my decision making, just as it is with watches.
If you do go for a Porsche they seem like a decent daily which might make the second car an easier choice. A 911 convertible and an M2 could be a great duo. Cash in on the Nautilus and enjoy yourself ;)
If you are looking at a 911, take a look at the Targa. Not many around, and they therefore hold their value, but it has a real party piece roof mechanism - check out a video to see it working. This is 991, not sure if 992 is out yet
No one has yet mentioned MX5's. Do they come in a different colour for each day of the week?
I have been looking into buying a special car for myself recently too, as I think the era of petrol cars is coming to an end and we are going to be forced into Tesla style cars soon. I agree with you on Tesla's, they are incredible cars, but to quote James May, they don't give me the fizz.
I know that McLaren offer a extended warrenty scheme, that looks pretty good and cover just about everything. I know that McLaren have sent people over to the Isle of Man before to fix cars, but the cost of the extended warrenty and likelihood of issues has put me off them too.
A 911 seems like a good and safe bet, you can't really go wrong with one. 2 issues with a 911 is the sheer amount of them on the Isle of Man and second is having to deal with Jacksons. On the plus side, it'll keep value well, they are great driving cars and the running costs will likely be lower than similar type cars.
Have you considered a Jaguar F-Type? The Supercharged V8 looks very nice, and the new ones are much quieter than the older ones.
I loved your posts on the Turbos Adi. Just lovely!
Absolutely - I do prefer the M4 to the M2, as it’s just a bigger car, and would be slightly more useful as the “sensible” car.
I think the Nautilus might go. Although depending on my choice it doesn’t have to, as I’ll be selling off virtually all of my watches except my Rolex collection (even then I might let 2 or 3 go), my limited edition Omegas (a and a handful of non-limited edition Omegas), and most of the rest can probably just go. Which should free up a sizeable chunk of cash for fun, and still leave me with more watches that I could realistically wear. That said, does anyone want to by an expensive blue face 5711, to help me speed up my new car purchase lol
I do love the look of the new Targa, and real through back to the early classic look. But, I’ve not driven one yet, and not sure if I could as easily get the spec I like. The 992 Targa is out, but they are expensive, I think around £130k.
I believe they do - but, I don’t fit in the new one - so it would have to be the Fiat 124 version. Unlikely that I’d have one as my fun car though, but I’ll never say never.
I think the McLaren was around £5k for annual warranty after the factory warranty expired, and maybe £1k+ annual servicing, plus whatever bits and pieces needed doing on top - tyres, clutch, etc. :(
Yes, there are quite a few 911’s here, but I’m not too bothered about being just another, as I already experience that enough with Rolex ownership ;)
Jacksons arrgghh. Indeed enough said, but I’m resigned to the fact that I’d probably go off island to service/maintain whatever car I bought.
I wouldn’t buy a JLR product. I’m sure some are ok, but friends have had nothing but trouble, and my ex’s uncle was one of their project leads and we could have had a great family discount on a new car, but still weren’t interest.
I think I’ll probably settle on some kind of mix of a BMW and a fun Porsche. Probably quite telling as that’s two of the cars I currently own, so I’d just be exchanging the models for hopefully better ones, and a buy more fun.
Last edited by Omegamanic; 15th March 2021 at 17:27.
It's just a matter of time...
What about a Aston Db11?
I’ve looked at both the new 4 litre Astons - I’m not against them at all. I’d need a better idea of servicing and as Al has pointed out above, the local agent would again be Jackson’s - I’m happy with a handful of Porsche specialists in the U.K. but have no experience of Aston. A client has had some very big bills in the past though on his V12. So there is definitely an Aston Martin tax built in ;)
It's just a matter of time...
I kept thinking about this all afternoon. I think the key is what a "dream car" is to you. I had this conversation with my father-in-law last year when he sold one of his classics and had the cash burning a hole in his pocket. After some soul searching he realised he was bored more than actually excited about a particular car, so he got a V10 RS6 to scratch the itch, without blowing the lot, until he figures out what he really wants. I feel cars such as the GTR and various hyper saloons are like that. They will thrill for a while, but people don't generally fall in love with them.
I will throw in a curveball, the original Honda NSX!
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