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Thread: New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

  1. #1
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    New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

    Hi all,

    Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere but I couldn't see it. Synchron has released a reissue of their 70s diver:



    It's a limited edition of 250 of each colour and they come with either a Tropic or Isofrane strap.

    A bit different looking - what are your thoughts?

    https://synchronusa.com/pre-order/
    Last edited by TH14TH14; 10th March 2021 at 12:15.

  2. #2
    Master
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    Yeah - got an e-mail from them today.

    I think it looks really good. Price isn't too bad either (although being a US price I assume there's VAT and Import Duty (and Courier Fees) to add?).

    Very tempted - even although I'm supposed to be in a period of watch purchase abstinence.....

  3. #3
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    i don't like it - i think the dial is too complicated. Too much going on for my old eyes!!

  4. #4
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Oooo I have been hoping for a reissue of these for a while.

    I have ordered a black one, thanks for sharing OP
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 10th March 2021 at 09:37.

  5. #5
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    Can't see 'Swiss Made' anywhere on the watch, a bit odd considering they are using hard to obtain ETA movements and always like to go on about the manufacturing origins of their products. Presumably for this watch they are not tying to hide its Chinese origins.

  6. #6
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Came in this morning and my eyes are still blinking sorry but just to much going on for my taste.
    I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE

  7. #7
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    I fear I'd get a migraine looking at that dial, but there is something about it that I find really appealing. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's enough that I'm considering one, despite my initial misgivings.

  8. #8
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    Not for me. Doesn't need the word 'automatic' and not sure why it's referenced as military. All a bit meh for me.

  9. #9
    Master Tetlee's Avatar
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    I like them, but not enough to buy one as I don't need another dive watch so I can breath a sigh of relief.

  10. #10
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    It looks to me like they are using Doxa cases, bezels an crowns

  11. #11
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    In that position and size that crown looks very uncomfortable, and also very exposed.
    Not for me I'm afraid.

  12. #12
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    Interesting! DOXA fires back:


  13. #13
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Interesting - Synchron used to own Doxa, now just Aquastar, Isofrane and Tropic.

    Like the style of the new releases.

  14. #14
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TH14TH14 View Post
    Interesting! DOXA fires back:

    Looks as if Doxa were beaten to the post. I am guessing Doxa are not happy at this release and they want to get in on the act. It will be interesting to see a comparison of both watches.

  15. #15
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    This is interesting, looks like the fella who left Doxa recently (who is an utter bell-end) is now at Synchron and has tried it on (note what I said a few words ago) - it's a homage to the original Doxa Army and unlike the typical Doxa bezel with IIRC its patented depth markings not a lot Doxa can do about it other than ignite their own version.

    I had one of the originals which are rare beasts with only a handful known on the forums, maybe only a couple hundred made total. I've been waiting for this reissue as I really like the dial and hands but clearly not to all tastes; once Doxa reveals their one I'll likely bite but this one can FO purely on who's behind it.

    BTW the originals only ever came with the black coating never brushed, although most lost the coating over time as it was almost plasticky rather than any type of DLC treatment. Why was the Doxa called Army - was claimed some had been supplied in the 70s to the Swiss forces but I believe this was never confirmed.

  16. #16
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Talk about WABI


  17. #17
    Journeyman AmosMoses's Avatar
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    Interesting colour palate, a little too busy for me.

  18. #18
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    This is interesting, looks like the fella who left Doxa recently (who is an utter bell-end) is now at Synchron and has tried it on (note what I said a few words ago) - it's a homage to the original Doxa Army and unlike the typical Doxa bezel with IIRC its patented depth markings not a lot Doxa can do about it other than ignite their own version.
    I had one of the originals which are rare beasts with only a handful known on the forums, maybe only a couple hundred made total. I've been waiting for this reissue as I really like the dial and hands but clearly not to all tastes; once Doxa reveals their one I'll likely bite but this one can FO purely on who's behind it.
    Don't like it then????
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 10th March 2021 at 13:30.

  19. #19
    Grand Master WORKSIMON's Avatar
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    Hate to say but I absolutely love it. First watch in a while that has got my juices flowing !!!!!!

    I like it that much that I was working out customs charges and persuading myself to buy it until the Doxa one was posted.

    That is where the problem for me begins, I would always want a Doxa one as I am a Doxa fanboy but I'm not sure this time if they will be able to beat Synchron design and price point. The hands look perfect on the Synchron version but the thinner Doxa hands do not suit the watch in my view. Most of the original ones I have seen are like David's version with the oversized hands, I have only seen one that has standard Doxa hands. I am not sure where Doxa will price this but I would have expected it to be at least double what Synchron are retailing at.
    Cheers

    Simon



    Ralph Waldo Emerson: We ask for long life, but 'tis deep life, or noble moments that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.

  20. #20
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Indeed, young Simon, the Doxa hands are a bit of a brain fart; of course they may correct it but if not it's a big downer for the look (and correctness).

  21. #21
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    It can be ordered on an Isofrane strap and they're over a £100 on their own! The more I look at it, the more I like it. I do like the unique hands and the fact it has a sapphire bezel insert. I think I might order one....

  22. #22
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    I get the impression there might be a bit of an argument going on between the two companies about this. I'm no Doxa historian but it seems the original watch was produced when Synchron owned Doxa. Rick Marei now owns Synchron and felt he could release a re-issue without the Doxa branding. Doxa saw this and were driven to release the place holder image on Instagram which looks like it might be an original piece (others on Instagram have noted the "T" on the dial). So Doxa's version may be a way off production yet. Also, the pricing of the Synchron is much lower than you would expect a Doxa version to be. The new owners of Doxa seem to be moving the prices upwards. I guess they will be forced to price their version at a similar level to the Synchron which might not fit into their previous pricing strategy for the brand.

  23. #23
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    Hmmm....Iím not sure the New management at Doxa are aiming to move the price upwards - after all they introduced the Sub200.

    I must admit I hadnít appreciated that the e-mail I got this morning was from Rick Marieís crowd, who Dr Peter McClean Millar is a great fan off. Given my experience with the latter Iím definitely waiting for the Doxa version - not least because theyíve got authorised dealers in the UK, so no import worries.


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  24. #24
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    Ah, that's true - I forgot about the 200 model! Maybe this would fit in with their pricing after all.

    The comments on the Doxa Instagram post are quite an interesting read:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CMPGjMGL...d=8y4j0j87ronl

    One thing I do find a bit uncomfortable is some watch journalists' championing of most of Synchron's projects, especially given that they seem to be gifted samples to promote on Instagram on a pretty regular basis. Perhaps that's not a factor in their thinking and I'm being overly cynical but it does make me wonder. They're certainly siding with Synchron here on the Doxa Instagram post.

  25. #25
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    New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

    Yes they are.

    However, without being too general, Rick Marei has a big American fan base - who seem to like dissing the new European Management - and theyíre quite vocal.

    Personally I hope that the non-Rick Marei fans, and people who donít live in America. Will appreciate the New Managements attempts to make Doxa less American focussed and more a world player. Hence opening up Authorised Dealers in Europe etc.

    However, these people are less likely to be so vocal at the moment.

    Just looked at the Doxa forum on WUS - they suggest that photo is one of the original prototypes- before the design was finalised...

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    Last edited by KAS118; 10th March 2021 at 20:17.

  26. #26
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    Ah, I see - that makes sense. It will be interesting to see how both models compare in due course. I do like Doxa and have one of the Sub 300 reissues so I'll be interested to check out the new watch when it appears at Jura and other dealers.

  27. #27
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    US: Straight off the bat; gonna pull the trigger; knocked it outta the park; itís over the top

    UK: Heís a bell-end

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    Why was the Doxa called Army - was claimed some had been supplied in the 70s to the Swiss forces but I believe this was never confirmed.
    I coincidentally did a comprehensive piece on this last December. If we are talking about "officially issued," then it would be the Sub 300T Professional. I was also told that there was an individual in the Swiss army who was given/wearing a Doxa Army, but in general I strongly believe that the Doxa Army was intended for the civilian market and more about marketing the fact that the brand was supplying the Swiss military since 1969. The last batch of military Subs and the Army both shared the same camo pouch, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Interesting - Synchron used to own Doxa, now just Aquastar, Isofrane and Tropic.
    I think that you'll find Isofrane, Synchron, Aquadive and Tropic under one roof, Aquastar, however, under a different setup (but also with Rick being the central figure).

  29. #29
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    Actually if you compare the 2 photos the Doxa has a much better crown - itís recessed and doesnít stick out like the Synchronís.


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  30. #30
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    The modern Doxa version does not exist.
    The photo they have used is an original.
    IMO The Doxa post came across as petty response to this release. Synchron seem to have taken the wind out of their sails.

    To clarify I have no dog in the fight, I was not aware of the politics behind who had left who, who was who etc. I don’t really care who owns the companies but the Synchron version was released first, if Doxa had released it I would have gone for that. I have wanted one for a while so I have ordered one.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 10th March 2021 at 21:34.

  31. #31
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Really canít be wrong at that price

  32. #32
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    New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    The modern Doxa version does not exist.
    The photo they have used is an original. The Doxa post came across as petty response to this release.

    To clarify I have no dog in the fight, I was not even aware of the politics behind who had left who, who was who etc. I donít really care who owns the companies but the Synchron version was released first, if Doxa had released it I would have gone for that. I have wanted one for a while so I have ordered one.
    Iíll be interested to know what you think of it when it arrives - and if itís not too rude, what taxes, duties and handling charges you incur.

    Iím sure itííll turn out a great watch - and for now certainly has a unique look


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by KAS118; 10th March 2021 at 21:51.

  33. #33
    Craftsman pepere13's Avatar
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    For EU citizens, price is 1217$, VAT and shipping included (around 1020€ At today’s rate).

    The watches are sent from Austria, so I do not expect any other costs. I did order the Deepstar from them, so have a little experience on how things will turn out on this matter.

    Oh, and I ordered mine this morning, stainless steel version, mainly because the bezel looks greater on it than on the pvd’s (look at the numbers)

    Can’t wait :D
    Last edited by pepere13; 10th March 2021 at 22:14.

  34. #34
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAS118 View Post
    Iíll be interested to know what you think of it when it arrives - and if itís not too rude, what taxes, duties and handling charges you incur.

    Iím sure itííll turn out a great watch - and for now certainly has a unique look


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Yep happy too
    I am sure I will get stung but itís the first new watch I have bought for a while and I do not flip so I am not too bothered.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAS118 View Post
    Iíll be interested to know what you think of it when it arrives - and if itís not too rude, what taxes, duties and handling charges you incur.

    Iím sure itííll turn out a great watch - and for now certainly has a unique look


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


    I ordered one, £740 + Import duties from fedex - so about £920. Seems like good value to me especially as it looks like they will sell out. Apparently they start shipping in about 2 weeks.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBANNENAGY View Post
    I ordered one, £740 + Import duties from fedex - so about £920. Seems like good value to me especially as it looks like they will sell out. Apparently they start shipping in about 2 weeks.
    I agree, itís a good price and Iím sure youíll enjoy it


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  37. #37

  38. #38
    Master Tetlee's Avatar
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    Funny as I don't remember Doxa ever being on my Instagram feed before but this just popped up....



    The comments didn't seem entirely favourable to the way Doxa have handled this, and at least one person was casting doubt about this being a prototype and not another vintage piece(asking why they are only showing part of the dial and conveniently not including the lower where the T Swiss T would be if vintage.

    If I was in the market I'd be happy with either.
    Last edited by Tetlee; 11th March 2021 at 18:49.

  39. #39
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    New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetlee View Post
    Funny as I don't remember Doxa ever being on my Instagram feed before but this just popped up....



    The comments didn't seem entirely favourable to the way Doxa have handled this, and at least one person was casting doubt about this being a prototype and not another vintage piece(asking why they are only showing part of the dial and conveniently not including the lower where the T Swiss T would be if vintage.

    If I was in the market I'd be happy with either.
    There are a number of people criticising Doxa - but at the end of the day the original watch was theirs and I can understand why they are a bit miffed that Synchron has issued a watch from Doxaís back catalogue.

    Someone on Watchuseek has pointed out that the original Doxaís have a notice in the lume at 12, and the new one doesnít. Which suggests it is a new prototype. However, I note the original posted above doesnít....


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    Last edited by KAS118; 11th March 2021 at 22:17.

  40. #40
    The first post from Doxa on IG showed an original Army (interestingly with a set of hands and bracelet that I have not seen on this model before) afaik. I would even bet money that they simply posted a scan of an old ad image they had in the archives (the background shows Switzerland's old camo pattern that was used until the 90s, and the same pattern was also used for the pouch the Army was sold with). The second macro shot shows a prototype of Doxa's upcoming re-edition that was released ahead of schedule (with a rather interesting recessed execution for the lume). While I might have chosen a different wording (and different pictures), I can understand their reaction after unexpectedly having lost the first-mover advantage. And maybe there's indeed no such thing as bad publicity, the Synchron sold out rather quickly. :-)
    Last edited by Roger Ruegger; 12th March 2021 at 13:50.

  41. #41
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAS118 View Post
    There are a number of people criticising Doxa - but at the end of the day the original watch was theirs and I can understand why they are a bit miffed that Synchron has issued a watch from Doxaís back catalogue.

    Someone on Watchuseek has pointed out that the original Doxaís have a notice in the lume at 12, and the new one doesnít. Which suggests it is a new prototype. However, I note the original posted above doesnít....
    Neither company bares any historic link to the original, they are a trademark that has been brought back to life and the modern companies are using historic models for inspiration.

    Some of the bickering on WUS regarding this issue is comedy gold, tribal and emotive; both sides missing the fundamental fact. The design is not Doxa's, nor is it Synchrons its not patented nor copyrighted. Synchron have as much right to make the watch as Doxa.

    I have no axe to grind with either company, I don't own a product from either (bar an isofrane which is the most uncomfortable strap ever, and the PVD version on order) so don't really care who has the 'right' to make it - both have equal claim as far as I can see. If Doxa had released it first at a similar price point, I would have likely ordered their version; but the way Doxa have handled this is straight out of the book "How not to use Social Media'.

  42. #42
    In for a PVD version.

    Love the look of this and have been swithering over a doxa 300t for a while.

    This at half the price will either kill that desire or ramp it up till the point I canít ignore it

  43. #43
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acg View Post
    In for a PVD version.

    Love the look of this and have been swithering over a doxa 300t for a while.

    This at half the price will either kill that desire or ramp it up till the point I canít ignore it
    Thatís my thoughts. The added bonus is the military dial, had Doxa released this already I would have caved in and bought it.

  44. #44
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    Like my cushion cases but the 'checker' dial and the funky handset together just too busy for me - but a good price and buy for those that like it. My only complaint about Mr M and his watches are they come in limited editions that are really batch releases - there is always another slightly different limited edition following. Note the release of the new limited edition Deepstar was called the Deepstar 2020 limited edition (something I'd never really picked up on until one of Mr M's associates took pains to mention in on WUS)- there is now an additional 2021 limited edition in a different colour and no doubt more to follow. Now thats okay if you know whats going to happen but a true limited edition? I asked the question on WUS if they would categorically confirm no more Militarys of any description after they trumpeted the fact only 500 produced and you best buy now as there will be no more made - so far no response.
    Last edited by Drumcairn01; 13th March 2021 at 15:12.

  45. #45
    Master RLE's Avatar
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    More I look at the black one, the more I like it. I had earmarked funds for one of the new Seiko SPB releases but think my first DLC watch could be on the horizon.

    Reading the threads on WUS, Synchron has confirmed this is a true 500 limited edition run and will not be repeated. The 250 stainless models have already gone but the black version is true to the original. Mmmmmmm.......

    Just need to choose between the tropic or Isofrane strap. The latter is the more expensive to buy separately so is the cost effective option.

    Wish I hadnít seen this thread!!!

  46. #46
    Master Neilw3030's Avatar
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    Read a mini review on FB of somebody who just received theirs, wasnít great really. Markers not lining up with bezel, Luke poor to very poor, white dial not white but a bit fake aged or off white.
    For a watch thatís going to cost a grand or more landed I would expect a lot better, but it is a handsome beast.

  47. #47
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    New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

    Quote Originally Posted by Neilw3030 View Post
    Read a mini review on FB of somebody who just received theirs, wasnít great really. Markers not lining up with bezel, Luke poor to very poor, white dial not white but a bit fake aged or off white.
    For a watch thatís going to cost a grand or more landed I would expect a lot better, but it is a handsome beast.
    Most of those complaints I can understand - however I thought the lume looked off white in any event - so I canít really feel thatís fair.

    Have you got a link to the FB review?


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    Last edited by KAS118; 13th March 2021 at 21:14.

  48. #48
    Master Neilw3030's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=KAS118;5698541]Most of those complaints I can understand - however I thought the lume looked off white in any event - so I canít really feel thatís fair.

    Have you got a link to the FB review?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/QUOT

    Canít work out how to link, itís in divers watches, this is the text

    24 Hrs. With the synchron military diver: a few of you guys asked so hereís my opinions so far. Itís 42mm case but definitely wears and appears smaller, more like a 40mm to me. Case is thick as seen in side pics. Bezel action is crisp, no play and has grip like a doxa. Signed crown is grippy, slightly recessed when threaded in. A little stiff to set but threads nicely and will probably break in. Face is to me not as bright or white as in pics on site. More of a vintage look. Wears very comfortably. Lume is disappointing. Thereís lume in bezel and it charges up nicely but is dull and fades quickly. The markers donít line up perfectly with the bezel. In the 2 pics I tried the 2 closest positions. That never bothers me but itís noticeable at 12 oíclock mostly. Overall Iím really happy with it. Love the look, the bezel I use for timing things so I donít ever sit at one spot and I like chunky divers so........

  49. #49
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    New Synchron and Doxa 70s Military Divers

    [QUOTE=Neilw3030;5698557]
    Quote Originally Posted by KAS118 View Post
    Most of those complaints I can understand - however I thought the lume looked off white in any event - so I canít really feel thatís fair.

    Have you got a link to the FB review?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/QUOT

    Canít work out how to link, itís in divers watches, this is the text

    24 Hrs. With the synchron military diver: a few of you guys asked so hereís my opinions so far. Itís 42mm case but definitely wears and appears smaller, more like a 40mm to me. Case is thick as seen in side pics. Bezel action is crisp, no play and has grip like a doxa. Signed crown is grippy, slightly recessed when threaded in. A little stiff to set but threads nicely and will probably break in. Face is to me not as bright or white as in pics on site. More of a vintage look. Wears very comfortably. Lume is disappointing. Thereís lume in bezel and it charges up nicely but is dull and fades quickly. The markers donít line up perfectly with the bezel. In the 2 pics I tried the 2 closest positions. That never bothers me but itís noticeable at 12 oíclock mostly. Overall Iím really happy with it. Love the look, the bezel I use for timing things so I donít ever sit at one spot and I like chunky divers so........
    Thanks - donít think I belong to that group

    Edit - now I do.

    Whilst I can see the bezel is fractionally off I really donít think itís too bad at all.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by KAS118; 13th March 2021 at 22:31.

  50. #50
    Craftsman pepere13's Avatar
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    Love it


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