Music through Samsung A51 phone

[James_]

If I'm listening to an FLAC music file with Sennheiser HD25 headphones am I getting HD music?

Reading about all the differences between music steaming services and wireless headphones and all that and it's quite confusing. I know that a compatable phone and wireless speaker or headphones is needed to get HD sound, but is my phone able to produce the FLAC quality sound through my wired headphones?

[sickie]

It could be down to what player you are using.
There are quite a few to choose from but I use either poweramp or playerpro (both paid versions) but then again I mostly listen to audio books on audible or smart audio book player so I'm no expert.

Sent from my SM-N976B using TZ-UK mobile app

[SeanST150]

Your question opens a can of worms!

First off, there isn't really a music file format called HD. It's known as HiRes, short for high resolution. Amazon has a music service called HD, but that's because the wider public will associated more easily with the HD branding of video/TV.

I'll forego the many audiophile arguments as to whether HiRes is actually worth it. This argument is already routed in the creation of CDs which were meticulously designed with the limitations of human hearing in mind. Therefore, although HiRes has more detail/wider frequency production, it's argued you can't hear the difference anyway.

Your Android phone will be capable of playing FLAC files, and much will depend on how those files are ripped. If your FLAC file is a conversion of a 320kbps MP3, you'll be getting only 320 delivered via a different format.

I'm making nothing other than guess here. Albeit I do wade in as someone who spends too much money on headphones and earphones.

You have a decent enough pair of headphones, and assuming the FLAC files are ripped from a good source (i.e. a CD), I'd say the phone is the bottle neck. More accurately the phone's inbuilt DAC and headphone amp.

Most manufacturers give like thought to phones producing a decent sound via the 3.5mm jack.

A general rule, MP3s are capped at a data rate of 320kbps, CDs are limited to 1,411kbps. I use FLAC ripped from HiRes sources and some of those have bit rates far in excess of 5,000.

I stand to be corrected, but the LDAC Bluetooth format which is a proprietary to Sony and is licensed to Android devices, has a maximum transfer rate of 990kbps.

Despite many wireless branding the HD or HiRes banner, there is data loss and therefore quality loss. Wires is always better in a like for like situation.

In direct answer to your question. I'd say you are getting "HD" sound from your FLAC files. I would just make sure the FLAC files you are ripping are from a decent source.

I would note your headphones are rated 70ohms, which isn't massively power hungry, but you would certainly not be getting the best from them, again, the phone is the bottleneck. I'd suggest you invest in an external DAC like one of these...

https://www.richersounds.com/audioqu...fly-black.html

But you will require a USB c to a, OTG cable to use it. Or you could look at this...

https://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk...put.15447.html

Both take the digital signal from your phone, and apply it to a much better DAC and amplifier.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using TZ-UK mobile app

[James_]

I use Poweramp paid version. Been using it for nearly 10 years it must be. Didn't know it was so highly thought of until last year when I was doing some more research into all this kind of thing.

[sickie]

SeanST150 seems to know what he's talking about so I would refer to his greater knowledge


Sent from my SM-N976B using TZ-UK mobile app

[subseastu]

To add to what Sean says it's worth looking at jonny darko vids on YouTube. He covers a lot of stuff like this

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

[SeanST150]

OP, if you're using Poweramp, you'll certainly be playing FLAC files. The media player is good, your headphones are good, the file the music is saved as is good (assuming you've ripped from a good source), again, the phone will be holding everything else back.

Out of interest, why are you asking exactly? Do you think you're missing out on something?

[SeanST150]

To add to what Sean says it's worth looking at jonny darko vids on YouTube. He covers a lot of stuff like this

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

Good call...

https://darko.audio/2019/08/the-dap-...sso-dc01-dc02/

[James_]

Your question opens a can of worms!

First off, there isn't really a music file format called HD. It's known as HiRes, short for high resolution. Amazon has a music service called HD, but that's because the wider public will associated more easily with the HD branding of video/TV.

I'll forego the many audiophile arguments as to whether HiRes is actually worth it. This argument is already routed in the creation of CDs which were meticulously designed with the limitations of human hearing in mind. Therefore, although HiRes has more detail/wider frequency production, it's argued you can't hear the difference anyway.

Your Android phone will be capable of playing FLAC files, and much will depend on how those files are ripped. If your FLAC file is a conversion of a 320kbps MP3, you'll be getting only 320 delivered via a different format.

I'm making nothing other than guess here. Albeit I do wade in as someone who spends too much money on headphones and earphones.

You have a decent enough pair of headphones, and assuming the FLAC files are ripped from a good source (i.e. a CD), I'd say the phone is the bottle neck. More accurately the phone's inbuilt DAC and headphone amp.

Most manufacturers give like thought to phones producing a decent sound via the 3.5mm jack.

A general rule, MP3s are capped at a data rate of 320kbps, CDs are limited to 1,411kbps. I use FLAC ripped from HiRes sources and some of those have bit rates far in excess of 5,000.

I stand to be corrected, but the LDAC Bluetooth format which is a proprietary to Sony and is licensed to Android devices, has a maximum transfer rate of 990kbps.

Despite many wireless branding the HD or HiRes banner, there is data loss and therefore quality loss. Wires is always better in a like for like situation.

In direct answer to your question. I'd say you are getting "HD" sound from your FLAC files. I would just make sure the FLAC files you are ripping are from a decent source.

I would note your headphones are rated 70ohms, which isn't massively power hungry, but you would certainly not be getting the best from them, again, the phone is the bottleneck. I'd suggest you invest in an external DAC like one of these...

https://www.richersounds.com/audioqu...fly-black.html

But you will require a USB c to a, OTG cable to use it. Or you could look at this...

https://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk...put.15447.html

Both take the digital signal from your phone, and apply it to a much better DAC and amplifier.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using TZ-UK mobile app

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think it's definitely FLAC playing as Poweramp has a bit at the bottom telling me. Some are 320kbps though...



So how would I know if my particular phone and headphones aren't making the most of the FLAC file? Or is that just a given considering they aren't top of the range?

[James_]

OP, if you're using Poweramp, you'll certainly be playing FLAC files. The media player is good, your headphones are good, the file the music is saved as is good (assuming you've ripped from a good source), again, the phone will be holding everything else back.

Out of interest, why are you asking exactly? Do you think you're missing out on something?

I thought I might be missing something. The more I read the less sure I was that even if it was FLAC, I wouldn't be getting the full quality of the stated Kbps.

[SeanST150]

FLAC is simply a file format, and is capable of many different bit rates, up to 30,000+ kbps, and currently I'm not aware of any music that can reach that limit. FLAC is not necessarily an inherently "better" sounding format, it just allows for more bitrate/detail (and therefore better sound) to be held by that file.

Your player/phone is definitely playing FLAC files. But if the FLAC file is simply a bit for bit copy of a crappy MP3 recording, you'll get no advantage. Like transferring a VHS to a DVD or Blu-ray, you can't add detail/quality that isn't already there.

As to what your headphones are receiving...

You and I, nor anyone, cannot hear a digital signal. They are ones and zeros, which need to be converted to an analogue signal. That analogue signal is then sent to the headphones via the wire. Poweramp takes the digital file (FLAC, ALAC, MP3, etc...) and gives it to the phone's DAC (digital-to-analogue converter) which converts the data into an analogue signal. That signal is sent to the phone's amplifier. The amplifier then moves the speakers (called drivers) in your headphones. And that's what you here.


With the equipment you have, the phone's internal DAC and amplifier will be the weakest link.

Are you looking to improve what you are hearing? Or are you just curious as to what/how your phone and headphones are working?

[James_]

FLAC is simply a file format, and is capable of many different bit rates, up to 30,000+ kbps, and currently I'm not aware of any music that can reach that limit. FLAC is not necessarily an inherently "better" sounding format, it just allows for more bitrate/detail (and therefore better sound) to be held by that file.

Your player/phone is definitely playing FLAC files. But if the FLAC file is simply a bit for bit copy of a crappy MP3 recording, you'll get no advantage. Like transferring a VHS to a DVD or Blu-ray, you can't add detail/quality that isn't already there.

As to what your headphones are receiving...

You and I, nor anyone, cannot hear a digital signal. They are ones and zeros, which need to be converted to an analogue signal. That analogue signal is then sent to the headphones via the wire. Poweramp takes the digital file (FLAC, ALAC, MP3, etc...) and gives it to the phone's DAC (digital-to-analogue converter) which converts the data into an analogue signal. That signal is sent to the phone's amplifier. The amplifier then moves the speakers (called drivers) in your headphones. And that's what you here.


With the equipment you have, the phone's internal DAC and amplifier will be the weakest link.

Are you looking to improve what you are hearing? Or are you just curious as to what/how your phone and headphones are working?

Mostly just curious but if someone told me what I have is rubbish I might think about getting a DAC. Not too much of an audiophile anymore though. Just listen occasionally and what I have sounds pretty good to my ears. I used to be into it a bit more in my late teens early 20s. Had B&W speakers bi wired with some fancy wire, separates connected with QED wire things. Then Cambridge Audio speakers and Onkyo amp again all bi wired. Don't even have a hifi now but I have a good ear for it.

[SeanST150]

Mostly just curious but if someone told me what I have is rubbish I might think about getting a DAC. Not too much of an audiophile anymore though. Just listen occasionally and what I have sounds pretty good to my ears. I used to be into it a bit more in my late teens early 20s. Had B&W speakers bi wired with some fancy wire, separates connected with QED wire things. Then Cambridge Audio speakers and Onkyo amp again all bi wired. Don't even have a hifi now but I have a good ear for it.

If you were to upgrade, I'd make these suggestions. All relatively inexpensive...

Headphones. These are exceptional value for money. Are beautifully made. Have a warm punchy sound. Are the most comfortable I've ever worn. Are easy to drive, so a DAC can wait, but the DAC will be a big improvement. They are over ear, rather than your HD25 which are on ear, the benefit is better sound isolation, deeper base and less outside noise. They will make the punchy base lines of Run the Jewels sound fantastic.

https://www.hifonix.co.uk/detail/mez...s?color=silver

Or the same headphone, made with plastic rather than machined wood. Quite a bit cheaper.

https://www.hifonix.co.uk/detail/mez...ack-headphones

And eventually a DAC, like the ones I already linked above.

It will be a substantial step up on what you have, and won't then be far off entering the realm of deminishing returns.

For a streaming service...

Qobuz. This is what I use, I find they're more "boutique". They're the first to introduce HiRes streaming. They're a small French company and I've found lots of new music owing to their recommendations.

Tidal. Also offer HiRes but via their MQA format. This service didn't suit me. It's very heavily geared towards rap, I like rap, but I also want other genres recommended.

Amazon Music HD. Probably a good blend of the above.

With a decent set of headphones and a DAC, the phone sevres only to pull the music files so it can be any cheap or top of the line phone.

[James_]

Thanks for the recommendations. You know your stuff for sure. I had tried Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 OHM and found them... Not good. Very quiet and weak. Then tried the 80 OHM version... Same again. Went straight back to my Sennheisers.

[zippy]

Some excellent advice from Sean, just my tuppence worth, if you go down the streaming route use the trials available to see what suits your needs. I found Quoboz excellent in terms of quality but did not have all the music content I liked. I ended up with Tidal which suits my needs and my equipment but I appreciate everyone is different.

In terms of audio quality, as has been pointed out, the DAC in most phones is the weak point and should be the first port of call in upgrading. If you're a little tech savvy you could find out how to open up the "developer options" on your phone, which enables you to open up a few more audio friendly codecs, especially if your using bluetooth.

Although phones are great for holding everything in one place and a dedicated DAC from the likes of audioquest will improve the sound output, the downside means you will have extra wires/dongles coming out from your phone. If you do decide to go down the Hi Res audio route, you may want to consider a dedicated Hi Res player (they used to be called MP3 players). from the likes of Astell & Kern or even a entry level one from Cowon.

[SeanST150]

Thanks for the recommendations. You know your stuff for sure. I had tried Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 OHM and found them... Not good. Very quiet and weak. Then tried the 80 OHM version... Same again. Went straight back to my Sennheisers.

It will not be the headphones that's the problem, it's the DAC/amp in the phone. I've just seen that Richer Sounds offer a package, price is quite good...

https://www.richersounds.com/headpho...fly-black.html

You'd just need to add...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AudioQuest-...tronics&sr=1-3

Or a non-branded equivalent will do the job also...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-Adapt...tronics&sr=1-4

If you do decide to go down the Hi Res audio route, you may want to consider a dedicated Hi Res player (they used to be called MP3 players). from the likes of Astell & Kern or even a entry level one from Cowon.

...and the slippery slop begins!

[James_]

It does sound like a slippery slope. Thanks again for all the info and recommendations. At least now I know I can upgrade what I have.