Would you part with 5 grand for this one?
https://monochrome-watches.com/citiz...et-2021-price/
Objectively there’s little reason it should cost less that a Grand Seiko / Rolex etc. It is a handsome watch with a fine looking movement too. If the build quality is first rate and that bracelet feels as silky as it looks, will it sell for £5k-ish? Or will the brand be enough to put people off...
It's no doubt built and finished well and the movement and performance testing should ensure an overall quality watch. My issue is what it's competing with at £5k. That's a huge market with many top players in it and I know for sure that I personally would have this way down my list of £5k watches to buy. I think one of their issues is there's no in-brand distinction around quality in the way that Seiko and Grand Seiko works.
So it's a no from me.
The design is completely to my liking and details look spot on. Beautiful watch but no I wouldn't spend £5k on one, but then I wouldn't spend that on any watch at this point.
If I had that sort of money to spend then yes I would consider this Citizen as much as any other brand.
Don't think the brand would put me off, I've always kind of fancied getting one of their HAQ watches and if I ever make it to Japan I will probably pick one up.
It's hard to think of a reason to buy that though? It's not bad looking, but it's not especially good looking either, and it's not really doing anything particularly special either. Just feels to me like Citizen's USP is HAQ and Eco-Drive and this is neither, so why would you buy it over a Grand Seiko for example?
I think I'll stick to their super accurate, will run for (almost) ever Eco Drive models, at under a 10th of the price!
I think Citizen are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are the most numerous watch producer in terms both watches and movements, they make excellent quality products, with genuine innovation.
However they are not known outside of the small collector world for their higher quality more expensive products. They want to push their more refined offerings, they have the manufacturing base to do so but the wider world does not know about them...
Their more expensive models are an acquired taste - dare I say it, a little boring and lacking in the wow factor that some GS have which does not help, even the ugly GS make you sit up and pay attention...
They don't really differentiate they higher quality stuff from the more mainstream like Seiko do and I think this further hurts their image.
At this price there is a lot of competition and there is nothing about the watch that makes it stand out from the crowd.
Personally I think it looks quite good. But knowing my flipper tendencies and previous points about the brand not demarking its premium lines (ala Seiko/Grand Seiko) I’d lose my shirt on it come boredom resale time.
I really do like the look of the bracelet, but whatever price point it is: if the bracelet is integrated it really has to have micro adjust. No excuses for not doing micro adjust on a bracelet you can’t swap. Worryingly the press release makes no mention of it.
At 5k though - think I’d still be going Omega. At 3k I’d be going Tudor, 2k Oris or Hamilton. Not sure where Citizen fits in.
This isn't the first really expensive Citizen watch, they have the Quartz Campanola and the really gorgeous (IMO) mechanical Campanola's, some of the thinnest quartz production models, as well as some of the most accurate using the Caliber 0100 and who can forget the well made and accurate Chronomaster.
Unfortunately I don't think this Citizen will get many buyers, particularly those that look at watches for investment purposes.
Shame as Citizen make really good watches in their price points.
One of the Eco-Drive Caliber 0100 watches is something I'd love to own but rarely seen (if at all still available) and sadly out of my price range.
It seems to borrow a few design elements from GS, and I think the subdial jars. Like the texture of the dial though.
Love it, I don't buy in that price catagory anymore, but given the choice this would be high on my list.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Well I am fascinated by it. The price point is quite clever. The entry level of this type of watch will likely be owned by the just-announced Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 that looks a bargain at £600-700. Against that the Citizen looks pricey but hold it up against a Royal Oak and it might look a bargain.
At a cheaper price I think the Citizen might have flown under the radar but it now has me curious enough to want to handle one and get a close look as soon as it is in distribution. They will make some noise with it. That’s half the battle. I wonder which retailers will stock it in the UK?
Last edited by Satori; 4th March 2021 at 13:35.
Not sure.
The "It's only a Citizen" cry is the same one as the "They can call it grand, but it's still just a Seiko" of old and yet, more and more, GS is seen as a credible alternative to the established Swiss brands.
I actually really like the look of this watch - I'm not (nor probably ever will be) in the market for a £5K watch, but I don't see this as any less desirable than a GS, personally.
And for the casual browser, here's a picture to save you following a link...
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I really like it. If I. Was in the market for a smart watch, I'd certainly consider it - though my money would more likely head towards GS. But unlikely to spend that sort of sum on a watch nowadays.
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I think it is gorgeous. Am not sure how good the movement is but the integrated bracelet looks brilliant.
I like this watch, it's really nice, and I like Citizen - but as ever, the Japanese utterly baffle me. Thing is, Citizen already own and operate several mid to high-end brands selling at this price point and above - i.e. Campanola, Angelus, Ateliers de Monaco, Arnold & Son and Frédérique Constant (they also own, but no longer use, AccuSwiss and Caravelle), so why the beeping hell muddy those already confusing and overpopulated waters with a very expensive Citizen that absolutely no-one asked-for?
They do a horrible job of promoting those other - generally excellent - brands (just try finding and using most of their websites), so why not invest the project funding into raising their profiles instead? It's not even one of their one-off, home market jobs - but supposedly part of the permanent global offer.
Madness IMHO.
It looks great no matter what the brand. I've not had a Citizen but they make quite a few watches I like the look of.
For 5K? I can't see anything else better for the money, probably a lot on a par.
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Why does it have the eagle?
I like the look of it, but that eagle annoys the hell out of me.
I’m sure it’s a great watch, but I totally agree with those who have said that it faces a lot of competition at £5k and the Citizen branding would definitely put me off.
As has been said, if they want to be seen as a serious player at that level why on earth didn’t they use a different brand - particularly since they own a number already! This seems a very odd approach to me.
Simon
Having superbly built watches from Citizen at less than 10% of the cost this one, I have no doubt the quality of this must be exemplary. However, unless it's a forever watch, the bath taken on resell would quosh any temptation to buy.
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The eagle is a throwback to older Citizen automatics, I like it.
I bet it wears huge at 40 mm with the integrated bracelet.
I don’t think it’s a smartwatch John!Originally Posted by JonRA
As for the watch; I quite like it but wouldn’t ever contemplate spending £5k on it!
SJX thinks the movement is alright - free-sprung balance wheel too. Not common at that price - https://watchesbysjx.com/2021/03/the...-movement.html
I don't know much about Japanese high end watches but that was the first thing that I noticed. Looks like a splodge of metal dripped on the dial.
Thanks for that.
I think it’s a great-looking watch, and I usually don’t take a shining to integrated bracelets. Having said that....
Like others, I struggle with why citizen spread themselves over such wide price points. It’s odd. Seiko just about pull it off with the Seiko 5 to LX, before jumping to Grand Seiko and then Credor but at least that’s a subdivided sub-brand based strategy. I think that kind of spread warrants some sort of branding distinction, even if it’s just something applied to the dial, made by the same people in the same factory.
Comes down to marketing and perception - folks didn't warm up to GS until a lot of effort on Seiko's part in how they promoted and branded - while hiking up prices.
Slap a crown on this watch and it'd be the most in-demand thing ever.
Fair point, can’t say I disagree. I just think that if Citizen are going to push higher end watches, they ought to take a page out of GS’s marketing and branding book. Maybe these will sell like hot cakes regardless, good luck to them, it’s a lovely looking watch and an interesting choice at 5K.
Unless they're not planning on making many of these. Citizen may be comfortable leaving this as a niche product and seeing what happens.
£5000 for a Citizen or £54,000 for a GS?
IMG_2780.JPG
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Sorry image somewhat distorted in uploading.?
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Seiko made a rod for their own back with Grand Seiko. "Seiko" used to signal decent but affordable mass-market watches - the quartz genius that killed the Swiss watch industry (almost). Bootstrapping that brand identity to be perceived on-par with Omega and Rolex simply by whacking a "Grand" in front of it may have seemed pretty sophisticated 60 years ago, but outside of Japan it was always going to be a struggle. It makes naff-all sense when you already have a respected-if-obscure premium brand like Credor in your portfolio.
It's no small matter to push a brand into a new segment, Toyota pulled it off with Lexus - originally by making far better cars than the competition - but Nissan have never fully pulled it off with Infiniti, nor Honda with Acura, yet even these don't seem as endlessly confused and inconsistent about brand stratification as Japanese watch manufacturers are. Does my head in!
While you're right in the UK (maybe in Europe, too), Acura and Infiniti are perceived as far more distinct brands from Honda and Nissan in the US, where they were really created for.
I don't think they're unsuccessful in that market - Here in the UK, the push for these brands has been half-hearted (actually, I don't think Acura is even a thing in the UK!), at best.
I'm sure Citizen will do OK selling these to well-heeled Japanese buyers, who seem to be able to distinguish quality regardless of brand, but I agree, to Western sensibilities, the plethora of brands does seem baffling...
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Certainly the movement has some interesting features and one shouldn't underestimate what this company can do regarding mechanical engineering.
My issue is first, the integrated bracelet which I have an aversion for.
Secondly, is marketing, they need to differentiate the brand to recognise that 5k price tag, and not just call it Citizen.I know there's what looks like a multi legged dragon? on the face but that means nothing to me.
Other than that, it looks beautifully finished, but a watch not for me.
Citizen also releasing in the $1k range - have to say, I like their style - https://www.ablogtowatch.com/citizen...ch-collection/
They need to state Grand Citizen for starters if they want to go high end on the price etc, otherwise it’s a dead duck!
Without high end definition and branding, Citizen alone won’t cut it, regardless of the quality.
I realise the article says it's an integrated bracelet, but is it actually? Is it not just an extremely close fitting (beautifully so) bracelet?
Then again, in most photos it looks like it's just part of the case, but in the below shot it looks very much not part of the case:
Last edited by hughtrimble; 6th March 2021 at 23:11.
Absolutely love the look of the 830
...but yet another missed opportunity, I own two of Citizen's excellent stainless steel "Promaster Tough" watches - both have a similar hardening treatment as Sinn and Damasko use and both are entirely free of scratches as a fresult ... but these expensive new watches? Not a trace!
I love the bracelet but I'd not be interested as I don't like the dial. The brand has nothing to do with it I just feel at that price point there are other watches I'd go for (for example the new Minase 7 windows with their new in house movement)
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Ha, yes, I did think that as I typed it :)I don’t think it’s a smartwatch John!
As for the watch; I quite like it but wouldn’t ever contemplate spending £5k on it!
Handsome watch, but 5k?
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the dial looks like a manhole cover sitting on fresh asphalt
I assume this would have to be shipped back to Japan for any issues/servicing?
Their official UK service agent is in Wokingham, so provided there's no issue with parts availability, should be no problem - the movements don't seem especially unusual.
Not for me, my money would go to GS.
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Me also grand seiko for that price
For the russian oligarcs.
And damn... no lume and only 50m wr...
Bloody beautiful anyway!
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https://subdial.co/products/citizen-...ial-nc0200-90e
Seems an awful lot of money for a Citizen.
Damn. I've just purchased something from Subdail for significantly more than that. Had I have know they had that Citizen I would have saved myself a whole lot of change! If it had a Swiss name on the dial that watch would be going for at least twice that amount.
Citizen make some excellent watches, they always have, and their movements are all over the world in various pieces.
But, £5k is a serious wedge. I've just bought two superb Sinn watches which would cost a combined price of £4,800 if purchased new without discount (which I didn't). I'm not sure I could plump up that amount of pony on what is a quite mainstream name, despite their obvious heritage.
Each to their own of course, and if its not for you its not for you. However, the 0200 is far from your normal run of the mill Citizen. The movement is a beautifully finished affair from La Joux-Perret (who Citizen now own) and every component of the watch is finished to a very high standard. Little bit of info here -
https://www.citizenwatch-global.com/...200/index.html
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