Hi All,
I am looking for some advice on DSLR cameras. Something I nothing about whatsoever.
My eldest son is in his second year of University doing film and TV production course. He has always been obsessed with the movies and TV and wants to pursue a career as a cameraman/camera operator. He has overcome MANY challenges to get onto the course he is on (I won’t go into details on here but there are many) and he has worked relentlessly hard. I am so proud of him and he has a birthday coming up and I want to get him his own camera. We have talked and he wants a DSLR but is unsure of what he should go for. I assumed there would be people on here that would have experience with such things so thought I would ask for some advice.
I want to get him something that can support his career aspirations. Something that will help him now and that he can potentially use moving forward. I have no idea what kind of mooney I need spend to get home something decent. They seem to vary from £2-300 to many thousands, I don’t want to spend a fortune but don’t want to get a pile of rubbish that he won’t use.
What should I be looking at in terms of features/functionality etc?
Any particular brands I should look at? ( or avoid!)
Any specific recommendations?
Budget - what do I need to spend to get something he will be able to keep for a few years and actually be useful?
Any other thoughts gratefully received!
Would also be interested to hear from anyone who actually does this stuff for a living.
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More info needed to make good choice.
Its too vauge, for example does he want it mainly for video, does it need to be 4K video. Does he even need stills ? Need to be new ?
Does he need built in flash and the list goes on and on.....
In general though Canon are known for being very good for video in the DSLR world.
Best way forward is to narrow it down in a few areas eg.
If he is on film and TV production course is it right to say that making videos will be a big part of the use profile? If yes then I would suggest you need a camera capable of 4K video, with a good reputation for video use and functionality. Some of the newest offerings from Sony, Canon, the Fuji XT4 offer great video capability married to superb Still capability, but if can also be the case that on some cameras video is a secondary consideration.
After use, the a technical/quality question - does he want a full frame sensor (same size as the original 35mm film frame) or a cropped sensor? It is generally considered that full frame offers the best combination of image quality, dynamic range(how wide a range of light and dark can be captured without losing detail) and high and low iso capability. There is also the creative aspect of shallower depth of field (how narrow a focus band you can get - this how to get those nice blurry backgrounds). The alternative is the cropped sensor, generally performs not as well in these areas, but getting better all the time, the advantage of cropped is usually found in the fact that they are cheaper and smaller than full frame.
Then there is handling - as said cropped sensor mirrorless cameras are generally smaller and lighter, so if physical size is important it’s a big factor. The next factor is if he want a true DSLR (you look at the image through a mirror that lifts when you press the shutter for a stills image, but at an electronic image in video mode) or a mirrorless camera whereby you are looking at the image in an electronic viewfinder in all modes. It used to be that true DSLR’s handled quicker and mirrorless cameras suffered from image lag , but the differences are less and less. I would suggest that unless the dominant use is high speed stills photography the choice of DSLR vs mirrorless is purely personal preference, and that is video is primary use he will be using a digital viewfinder all the time anyway. For me, I really like the latest mirrorless viewfinders as you can see the effect of exposure as you take the image.
Having decided on the above three you will end up with a must have basic spec eg. Excellent 4K Video capability , full frame, lighter weight mirrorless camera. By definition such a spec will be more expensive than a basic video capabele, cropped sensor mirrorless.
Which brings you to budget. Is the budget for a body and a basic lens or zoom lens, or body and multiple lenses. Budget could limit your choices but it really will help you if you get that basic spec down first.
You will find lots of choice (too much choice) from good brands like Canon, Nikon, Fuji , Panasonic and Sony. All of which make great cameras, but the best match will be dependent on use and budget.
Last edited by I AM LATE!; 2nd March 2021 at 05:43.
As above, more info needed on what he will use the camera for.
I'm a Canon full frame photographer and have shot probably towards a million frames over the last 10 years mainly using full manual, I know what I need and how to use what I need but if your son is more video based then he'll need completely different knowledge compared to someone like me.
Saying that I do meet a lot of videographers filming on DSLR's, Canon full frame was always the choice but I emphasise was, the main cameras I have seen in the last 3-4 years are Sony.
The Alpha A series are small, light, great features dedicated to filming, probably the best for film is the A7S, S = Sensitivity which essentially means its great when light falls off, the ISO can pushed to silly numbers while keeping the effect of noise low.
But most of the magic comes from lens choice, a standard 24-70 type lens is a good start but as your son learns more he will see that lots of seasoned film makers use old manual focus lenses like Zeiss, Leica etc, adaptors can be added to use these lenses but its much more manual, they tend to give a more neutral cinematic look.
I'll stop there for now, once your son has a better idea of what he wants to do then hopefully we can advise more, if he doesn't yet understand the laws of photography then I'm not too far from you so when lock downs end I could explain to him how it all works, once you understand these elements its a light bulb moment and almost like understanding another language.
I use a Sony A7iii and a 24-105 lens. Also have a 35mm and a 40mm manual focus. Also have a small Sony compact which takes great photos. Have been an Olympus user in the past and still have a soft spot.
As has been said, need more info of how and where the cameras is to be used and stills, videos, landscape, portrait etc.etc. A budget will be useful too because whilst you don’t have to spend thousands, spending a bit more will get you son something that is likely to last a few years with the option of being able to upgrade/but additional lenses.
From the course title and career aspiration I’d assume he is after a camera mainly for video.
Isn’t there someone, tutor for example, at university he can ask for advice? Many students must have been through a similar process.
The usual brands have been mentioned but I’d look at something like the Panasonic GH5 although recent Sony cameras are likely equally good.
Thanks for all the responses guys, as always really appreciated! I also appreciate the offer of support from murkeywaters, very kind of you and lets see where we get to with lockdown etc.
I guessed I would end up with more questions.
He wants to go for 4K video almost exclusively so it needs to excel at that, he isn’t looking to do any still photography. I am thinking mirrorless and full frame sensor (I guess....) Don’t need a flash. The budget is £400-£1k I guess and will need to include everything he needs. I want to get him started, when he has more experience he can start to hone what he wants and what works best for him (and pay for it himself!). For the time being I am sure he will be grateful to just have his own kit (for obvious reasons he hasn’t been able to get his hand on any Uni kit for months now). I wans something modern, easy to use and as future proof as possible.
Thanks again!
I was given the following advice when looking for a stills camera but I expect the same thinking can be applied to making videos.
Set yourself a budget and allocate the largest proportion of that budget on lenses and as small a proportion as possible on a body. Assuming he is relatively new to these cameras, at a novice level top quality lenses will have a greater impact on image quality than the bells and whistles on the body. Once he has gained technical skills and understanding he can upgrade the body at a later date.
I would advocate buying a second hand body as the depreciation on these is huge because the manufacturers update bodies regularly. Good quality lenses don't depreciate so much.
The hard part will be choosing which system (Canon, Nikon, Sony, full frame, micro4/3rds etc) to buy into. It is important to try to get that decision correct first time. Once you have invested in one system it can be expensive to back out and change because of the aforementioned depreciation.
You will probably need to make compromises as there is no such thing as the perfect package. So it is a good idea to make a list of must haves and would likes and see which system is the best fit.
I would encourage looking at Panasonic GH bodies as previously mentioned. They have been developed with a strong bias towards film making. Micro 4/3rds cameras and their lenses are generally smaller and lighter than their full frame counterparts. Although image quality may not be up there with the top end Canon, Nikon and Sony offerings, particularly in low light. Second hand bodies can be picked up for a couple of hundred quid and there are loads and loads of lenses to choose from including from other manufacturers.
A good place to start is dpreview.com (although I haven't been there regularly for a few years so things may have changed). Their reviews are good and reasonably unbiased and they keep their back catalogue of reviews so it is easy to find their opinions on older equipment.
I think you may struggle to get a full frame mirrorless set up for your budget, even second hand.Originally Posted by zanderpants
Futureproof in the camera world is difficult to achieve as the manufacturers update their bodies every couple of years. The big manufacturers have a clear upgrade path from entry level to top "pro" level with the features in the top cameras slowly filtering down to the lower tiers. Otherwise it is a case of buying a second hand body and then upgrading when he feels he has grown out of it.
A good starting point would be the uni kit. See what he likes and dislikes about it and work towards a system with which he feels can produce better results.
I am in no way an expert but my son is at college and has a bit of a side hustle in creative media - not up to the standard of your son or his course obviously but more than a passing interest. He bought his gear second hand (with financial contributions from me and his savings) from MBP (highly recommended based on his experience, he has already upgraded his lens). He has a Fuji XT2 and now has a 16-55mm f2.8 lens (upgraded from 18-55mm f2.8-4). He also uses a mounted GoPro when he is surfing, I am astounded by the quality of both devices in terms of what he sends me, video and stills. So, no technical recommendation (there are far more qualified people than me on this forum to do that) but a real life perhaps semi relevant experience of my son with a similar budget.
I've a couple of recommendations, neither are technical however I'd hope they'll help.
Buy pre-owned, just like watches you'll generally get a lot more for your money and there are many reputable dealers out there. When/if it comes to trading up it'll be easier financially as well.
Whatever kit he ends up with familiarity is imperative. Practice, practice, practice! It's no use having whatever the latest thing is if it's not used to its full capacity, if he knows what he has and can flick between one feature or function intuitively he'll get higher quality results.
Going 4K is great but if he has limited experience then its akin to running before you can walk, 4K is currently the top res format for us mere mortals.
Capturing 4K sounds great but to get the best of that 4K you ideally want top lenses which are very expensive, memory cards will be huge and need to have fast write speeds, again not cheap, editing 4K will require a powerful PC/Mac with a lot of RAM and processor power plus big hard drives which really should be SSD's to help run 4K editing suites.
As much as it might feel like a step back for him HD 1080p will ease up a lot of this expense and still create wonderful footage, unless he has the full spectrum to shoot/edit 4K he will be struggling with some aspect of it, struggling with technicalities when your learning is often the give up point.
He has to learn his craft and going to a lower res/format will help him concentrate on his creative side rather than the techy side..
Wex are doing secondhand now, so a mirrorless Sony a few years old could be a good buy. Sony full frame is quite a big system these days so can start off with a cheap zoom and then move to the Zeiss zooms or primes. Tons of cheap video shooting cages / gimbals / accessories on Ebay for the Sony system too. For secondhand could also try MPB as mentioned or ffordes. There are cinematic reasons why full frame is better - so worth the slightly extra cost with the cameras / lens in my book..
Last edited by vulcangascompany; 2nd March 2021 at 17:06.
I’m slightly confused is this a surprise gift?
If so perhaps you might want to reconsider that aspect as lovely a sentiment as it is, obviously this will become one of the tools of his trade so to speak and so I’d hope he already has a good idea of what he wants/needs no, I would not be surprised if there was some kind of common pooling of lenses and other accessories between peers so one platform might be preferable due to that.?
On specific units I’ve no idea but I know a few of the youtube channels I follow use Panasonic, Fuji, Sony and/or Cannon. I don’t recall hearing of Nikon, Pentax or Olympus but that’s not to say they don’t have a following.
I’d have a dig around youtube content creators and see what’s being/has been used and what’s available s/h.
This might be of interest as a starter.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/best/best-youtube-camera
Someone suggested asking a tutor, that's a good idea (Do they not use something at University already?).
Go for a Canon, is my advice (I have Pentax DSLRs as I had a lot of Pentax fit lenses from my 35mm days, but Canon seem to be the almost de-facto standard these days and there are loads of good quality used lenses around.
Having said that the new Attenborough programme is using Sony DSLRs (at least in part), so maybe they're actually better for video.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...eing-in-colour - Around 22:30.
If you can afford 4K, get that for video, but if not then HD is probably enough for working on camera work, angles, exposure, etc, just get something with a decent frame rate for video.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I’m not sure Canon are the de-facto go to. All of the big names are equally as good. And Sony don’t make dslr’s any more, I suspect they were Sony Mirrorless.
Good advice to ask the tutor though
Film and TV is my world, and the camera I see everyday being used by pros is the Sony A7s, the Canon 5D used to be the default smaller camera, but the A7S has eclipsed it for video use.
You may be right on the Sonys, they look like DSLRs, but I'm not an expert on their range.
I agree that Nikon are generally as good as Canon (not sure about the rest, Pentax tend to be good in areas but lose out overall in most reviews), but Canon seem to be everywhere, even Nikon not so much these days.
Back in the early '80s there were dozens of 35mm SLR manufacturers on every high street, choice is far more limited these days.
My 35mm SLR was a Chinon - sold in Dixons in the UK, but more widely elsewhere - I liked the Pentax K mount, but found Pentax's own cameras a bit too small for comfortable handling.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I mentioned the A7S a few posts back, lots of videographers I have met use them being light, unbelievable ISO range, plenty of lens choice with adapters, they eat batteries though I heard?
I have 5D 3’s and 4’s but don’t film only shoot stills, if I got into the film side the A7S would be might first choice.,
Some good a advice here guys. Will give me plenty to go and do some research on!
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I overwhelmingly shoot stills, but among other bodies I’ve got a Sony A7S which is wonderful, but it’s a specialised tool and I wonder if he’d actually be better off with a more recent video-aimed mirrorless camera with good in-lens (and, ideally, in-body) image stabilisation. I’m also not sure that a full frame sensor is needed: budget is key here.
It’s very hard to beat a Panasonic GH5 or even a s/h GH4 if the budget is tight. These are micro-4/3 sensors and people will tell you they’re not so good in low light, but they’ve been used by dozens and dozens of pro video shooters in all sorts of light, so there must be more important factors.
The new Fuji X-S10 is getting great reviews, if it’s in budget.
Some good, independent resources -
https://www.cameralabs.com/best-mirrorless/
https://www.cameralabs.com/mirrorles...rless-cameras/
https://www.videomaker.com/article/f...oice-for-video
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/buy...-videographers
I'd echo most of the points made here. To be pedantic it's not a DSLR he wants now but a Mirrorless camera. Sony tends to be the most prominent for video use from what I have seen too. But Panasonic GH type were also really popular with the YouTube crowd until recently. The actual video centric cameras tend to have flip out screens and in the Sony cases lower MP counts to have larger pixels for video. The latest and greatest of the A7S has reached A7Siii so there should be a deal in the older bodies. If you really want a proper Sony video camera then the new FX3 is the A7Siii in pure video mode. At the non interchangeable lens end there is always the Sony ZV-1. Fuji has the X-T4 as an option. Canon I don't think has quite got there with its mirrorless for video work as much as Sony. Remember it is the log that the camera records in and how easy that is to grade that will matter to a videographer. Most apart from the FX3 will struggle with heat when recording long periods of 4K. If you are buying interchangeable then buy the lens system not really the camera as especially with Sony they bring a new model out relatively frequently.
BTW I’ve never bought from here, but a knowledgeable friend has recommended it: https://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/digital-...igital-cameras
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