Wristers of London

[oldoakknives]

Not a case of red bull and a load of espresso? Some good energy for late night arguments disguised as debates?

Red Bull....?

[AlphaOmega]

Ped, this isn't market research. This is primary data.

And you have more than you could ever need.

[ped]

Ped, this isn't market research. This is primary data.

And you have more than you could ever need.

I don't have a dog in this fight - like I've said I've been here from 2008. I'd just be amazed to learn that nobody else has found the forum software even slightly difficult since then. It's interesting to hear how protective people are of 'the way thing are' - and I get that. Like I said, I've seen it all before, mitigated it, developed around it.

We don't still use Internet Explorer do we? (Maybe I'll regret asking)

[Suds]

Has anyone decided to sign up to the tube account or even buy from wristy?

[Kingstepper]

We don't still use Internet Explorer do we? (Maybe I'll regret asking)

No, nothing wrong with Netscape Navigator, why should we change?

[ped]

No, nothing wrong with Netscape Navigator, why should we change?

I'm beginning to wonder myself!

[wileeeeeey]

Is ped short for pedant?

[Rev-O]

I don't have a dog in this fight - like I've said I've been here from 2008. I'd just be amazed to learn that nobody else has found the forum software even slightly difficult since then. It's interesting to hear how protective people are of 'the way thing are' - and I get that. Like I said, I've seen it all before, mitigated it, developed around it.

We don't still use Internet Explorer do we? (Maybe I'll regret asking)

You’re writing to bunch of people wearing mechanical watches with gears and springs. Basically C18th technology.

[verv]

My point is that things only improve if there is the willingness to listen to ‘customers’ (paying or not) and the humility on both sides to accept change.

Famous cooks got famous by listening to feedback.

Good cooks strive to improve their cooking

Bad cooks think everything is fine and react harshly to criticism no matter how constructive.

Lots of ‘bad cooks’ (I’m one) are happy where they are. But there’s only one person to ask. In a large community the only way to tell of the customers want change is to discuss it and be open to opinions rather than listening to a few entrenched viewpoints on either side.

Remember I have nothing to gain by suggesting how the forum could be updated except better UX and content. If I’m wrong, then you can tell everyone with current software they can roll back to 2010 architecture and they’ll agree.

There has been no request for "customer feedback". You're in someone else's house telling them how they should improve on your free meal while implying that others who are eating quite happily are only doing so because they're somehow entrenched in consuming swill.

[ped]

There has been no request for "customer feedback". You're in someone else's house telling them how they should improve on your free meal while implying that others who are eating quite happily are only doing so because they're somehow entrenched in consuming swill.

No I’m really not. But I’ll stop now.

[Daddelvirks]

“ And what's a 'platform'?“

In my world something a train stops at

I did use to wear platform shoes, it might have something to do with that.....

[Suds]

The chosen name reminds me of the 1980s achievers in London. Young, brash, overly confident, easily parted from their money wannabes (yuppies) who crashed and burned leaving then having to sell any baubles at fire sale prices.... As I've already said, pleased not to be part of their aspirations.

[Raffe]

.....so which is my favourite watch then?

Polar Explorer 2.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5286098

[AlphaOmega]

I don't have a dog in this fight - like I've said I've been here from 2008. I'd just be amazed to learn that nobody else has found the forum software even slightly difficult since then. It's interesting to hear how protective people are of 'the way thing are' - and I get that. Like I said, I've seen it all before, mitigated it, developed around it.

We don't still use Internet Explorer do we? (Maybe I'll regret asking)

OK Ped, you've changed the subject. That is fine. It's a technique and one of the reasons I don't argue online.

My advice to you is to look up what primary data is. You've had ten years to judge your audience and I have to say, you're underestimating them. That is how you lose clients, not gain them.

[oldoakknives]

Polar Explorer 2.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5286098

B****r.

[Lusty]

This is a forum populated by people who spend thousands of pounds on watches that are based on early 20th century designs. I'd say the forum software seems quite advanced given the audience

[oldoakknives]

This is a forum populated by people who spend thousands of pounds on watches that are based on early 20th century designs. I'd say the forum software seems quite advanced given the audience

Dunno what you mean.......

[rfrazier]

Dunno what you mean.......

Gosh, that's tidy. My pandemic workspace is out of control.




Best wishes,
Bob

PS Just an attempt at thread topic evolution.
RLF

[verv]

I still know the exact progression of these sounds from hearing them all those years back!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1UY7eDRXrs

[ped]

OK Ped, you've changed the subject. That is fine. It's a technique and one of the reasons I don't argue online.

My advice to you is to look up what primary data is. You've had ten years to judge your audience and I have to say, you're underestimating them. That is how you lose clients, not gain them.

Thanks. Some issues to unpack there in terms of what constitutes research versus assumptions and actual reach of said data but I don't think I'm getting very far in what is becoming an increasingly entrenched and select group of members who probably came for blood.

All I'll say is we had this very same argument in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2018 and 2020 on a site around a niche topic with a broadly similar demographic and every time the upgrade was the only and most beneficial answer. But then we wanted to grow and make things work better, and I completely understand if people are happy with how the forum is. I'd love to see a proper piece of research amongst a wide range of members to back that up and that's all I'm saying.

Personally, I think people would like to be able to easily attach images from their phone. I'd be amazed if I'm wrong, and would be keen to learn why they WOULDN'T want that feature if it could be added in an hour or two.

Just for starters.

And I'd do it.

For free.

To help.

But fine!

[walkerwek1958]

What an entertaining thread!

I'm definitely not in the target market that Wristers will be aiming for, and I`ve no idea how to use Instagram!

Cockbait Luke's certainly made an impression, calls a well-regarded TZer 'strange' then uses the term 'friendless nonce' (or something similar) .

I too think the choice of Wristers as a trading name is unwise, doesn`t exactly conjure up a professional image.

Unfortunately the business model of a bricks and mortar shop for a watch dealer is now a thing of the past, but a good website and good accessibility for customer enquiries is a must in my opinion.

With a lot more tact and the right approach Luke could've become an active member on here whilst also giving a plug for his friend's business, he's done himself and the business no favours.

[rfrazier]

Why assume growth is a goal? There are lots of interesting organizations which don't have that as a goal.

Best wishes,
Bob

[Dave+63]

The issue that you appear to overlook Ped, is that it isn’t a democracy. If Eddie doesn’t want it to change then it won’t change.

We the members have two choices, stay or go. If enough people choose to go then maybe Eddie will have a rethink. But as most people seem reasonably happy with the way it works now, I very much doubt whether anyone is going to leave because of the software.

For what it’s worth, I have no issues uploading pictures from my phone using Tapatalk and, if I chose to pay for the premium service, it would be even easier.

[Sinnlover]

You’re writing to bunch of people wearing mechanical watches with gears and springs. Basically C18th technology.

I say bring back semaphore.

[AlphaOmega]

Thanks. Some issues to unpack there in terms of what constitutes research versus assumptions and actual reach of said data but I don't think I'm getting very far in what is becoming an increasingly entrenched and select group of members who probably came for blood.

All I'll say is we had this very same argument in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2018 and 2020 on a site around a niche topic with a broadly similar demographic and every time the upgrade was the only and most beneficial answer. But then we wanted to grow and make things work better, and I completely understand if people are happy with how the forum is. I'd love to see a proper piece of research amongst a wide range of members to back that up and that's all I'm saying.

Personally, I think people would like to be able to easily attach images from their phone. I'd be amazed if I'm wrong, and would be keen to learn why they WOULDN'T want that feature if it could be added in an hour or two.

Just for starters.

And I'd do it.

For free.

To help.

But fine!

Ped, you make some good points.

You're right about much of what you say about UX and to an extent the membership doesn't necessarily know how things can be improved.

The area where some tact is required is in the delivery of such a message. It's not only that, though.

There are complexities at play where forums, their owners and their membership prove trustworthy over a number of years.

[Kingstepper]

Thanks. Some issues to unpack there in terms of what constitutes research versus assumptions and actual reach of said data but I don't think I'm getting very far in what is becoming an increasingly entrenched and select group of members who probably came for blood.

All I'll say is we had this very same argument in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2018 and 2020 on a site around a niche topic with a broadly similar demographic and every time the upgrade was the only and most beneficial answer. But then we wanted to grow and make things work better, and I completely understand if people are happy with how the forum is. I'd love to see a proper piece of research amongst a wide range of members to back that up and that's all I'm saying.

Personally, I think people would like to be able to easily attach images from their phone. I'd be amazed if I'm wrong, and would be keen to learn why they WOULDN'T want that feature if it could be added in an hour or two.

Just for starters.

And I'd do it.

For free.

To help.

But fine!

Where would the pictures be hosted? Another cost for Eddie?

[ped]

Why assume growth is a goal? There are lots of interesting organizations which don't have that as a goal.

Best wishes,
Bob

Good point. New software facilitates growth but brings other benefits to encourage members to interact, as well as benefitting from better security and making it easier to update when you're forced to by the software provider who no longer supports your system. Been there - very tricky.

Even if you forget about new software encouraging people to join, it might make the forum easier to use for people who already use it. That's all any update is required to do.

[joe narvey]

It was going well until I reached this point, they could have worded that better. That said, I wish them well.

+1

I was benefit of doubt until I read the comment ‘Narrow minded snobbery’’.

[ped]

Ped, you make some good points.

You're right about much of what you say about UX and to an extent the membership doesn't necessarily know how things can be improved.

The area where some tact is required is in the delivery of such a message. It's not only that, though.

There are complexities at play where forums, their owners and their membership prove trustworthy over a number of years.

Completely agree, and think we're on the same page. I'm not trying to create something 'else' but merely suggest that a small update would be nice. The members of communities like this are the thing that we keep coming back for. Software just helps us do that.

- - - Updated - - -

Where would the pictures be hosted? Another cost for Eddie?

There are several options here - all very low cost, I'd even pay, at this point! (Just spoken to my server admin and you could have 1TB of storage for about £5 a month, we've been going since 2016 I think with our current platform (uploads) and have only 197GB)

[AlphaOmega]

Why assume growth is a goal? There are lots of interesting organizations which don't have that as a goal.

Best wishes,
Bob

Good point, Bob.

Not sure if you ever listen to Eric Weinstein but one of the problems he highlights is embedded growth obligation.

[Mr Curta]

I find this forum to be clearly laid out and easier to navigate than most, including the search function. Every other forum I visit seems to be inundated with overt user signatures and avatars, 'like' buttons and other unnecessary crap. The rules here are clear and simple, refreshingly free of moderators and with the charitable element strongly embedded. It's a pretty unique place and it ain't broke.

[oldoakknives]

Gosh, that's tidy. My pandemic workspace is out of control.




Best wishes,
Bob

PS Just an attempt at thread topic evolution.
RLF

No worries, only having a laugh!

[mart broad]

“ It's a pretty unique place and it ain't broke.“ and it certainly does not need “ fixing” go chat to Uncle Roy

[50kopek]

Gosh, that's tidy. My pandemic workspace is out of control.




Best wishes,
Bob

PS Just an attempt at thread topic evolution.
RLF

For a second there I thought you were playing the harmonica.

[ped]

“ It's a pretty unique place and it ain't broke.“ and it certainly does not need “ fixing” go chat to Uncle Roy

It will, sooner or later.

[Daddelvirks]

It will, sooner or later.

So will its inhabitants....

[M4tt]

Where is clockwhomble_luke?

He's been upgraded.

[RAJEN]

It will, sooner or later.

It is not perfect but the place including the fossilised curmudgeons have a certain old school charm that is missing elsewhere:-) Much better than most other watch fora. I do wish the ‘search’ function worked a bit better.

[Ruggertech]

My point is that things only improve if there is the willingness to listen to ‘customers’ (paying or not) and the humility on both sides to accept change.

But why does it need to change? It's simple to navigate and use, informative, interesting, funny, and not a little addictive. Any sections you don't wish to see you can either ignore, or ask Eddie to remove your access to them as I have done recently.
If it was so bad why would new user registrations need to be suspended because the queue is so long to get in?

[rfrazier]

Bug fixes are good. Security fixes are good. Adding features (feature creep) is not always so good, and quite often introduces bugs and security problems. Consider allowing text documents to have macros embedded. Or, HTML email. Gad!

There is nothing wrong with old software. I use TeX/LaTeX every day, and it has been, more or less, feature complete since 1978. There has been the occasional bug fix, and there was a major change in 1989 to allow 8 bit characters. I also use GNU Interactive Tools on a daily basis, and it hasn't been changed since about 2008. Indeed, although I've tried others, I've been using the same window manager since 1997, and most of the changes have been bug fixes (although also altered to use newer libraries, etc.)

Best wishes,
Bob

[ped]

But why does it need to change? It's simple to navigate and use, informative, interesting, funny, and not a little addictive. Any sections you don't wish to see you can either ignore, or ask Eddie to remove your access to them as I have done recently.
If it was so bad why would new user registrations need to be suspended because the queue is so long to get in?

I have no idea why user registrations are off, would be interesting to know why.

Nothing wrong with the forum as it is except for a few things that could be easily brought up to date. Posting pics as an example - we all have a workaround but it can be seamless and easy. I’m typing this in desktop mode on my phone and it’s a bit of a pain but I put up with it because it’s a good community.

I’ve been caught out a few times by thinking I can remain on old software forever but when the support stops it can become much more of a headache to maintain.

No agenda, just offering experience in this area!

[Suds]

It will, sooner or later.

Sooner or later mate you start to sound like a 'broken record' that no one wants to listen too. It is what it is. (That's a full stop btw). More importantly, are you joining the wristers insta?

[petethegeek]

There is nothing wrong with old software. I use TeX/LaTeX every day, and it has been, more or less, feature complete since 1978. There has been the occasional bug fix, and there was a major change in the 1989 to allow 8 bit characters. I also use GNU Interactive Tools on a daily basis, and it hasn't been changed since about 2008. Indeed, although I've tried others, I've been using the same window manager since 1997, and most of the changes have been bug fixes (although also altered to use newer libraries, etc.)

You forgot to mention gnuplot.

[Saint-Just]

Registrations are stopped because Eddie stopped them for the moment.
Look, I am sure you mean well and have professional qualifications to back it up and I am sure Eddie knows that and will call you if and when he decides to change something.

In the mean time take the forum as it is and enjoy it for what it is without charging every time you see a windmill.

[Suds]

Registrations are stopped because Eddie stopped them for the moment.
Look, I am sure you mean well and have professional qualifications to back it up and I am sure Eddie knows that and will call you if and when he decides to change something.

In the mean time take the forum as it is and enjoy it for what it is without charging every time you see a windmill.

Perhaps a change of username to Ped Quixote?

[ped]

Sooner or later mate you start to sound like a 'broken record' that no one wants to listen too. It is what it is. (That's a full stop btw)

Sure. I’ll simply say that we had this exact chat on my forum when we had to upgrade to the latest software. Many said it would kill the forum. Even I was worried.

A week after it went live, the old software was forgotten and everyone was quietly taking advantage of the new system very happily and the key grumblers (as passionate in their defence of the old software as you are being, raising the exact same points) had to accept that it wasn’t in fact the catastrophe some predicted.

I’ll retract my offer to help and keep on using the forum as it is!

[rfrazier]

...

You forgot to mention gnuplot.

There is that. ;)

Best wishes,
Bob

[Raffe]

I'll retract my offer to help and keep on using the forum as it is!

Result!

[Suds]

Sure. I’ll simply say that we had this exact chat on my forum when we had to upgrade to the latest software. Many said it would kill the forum. Even I was worried.

A week after it went live, the old software was forgotten and everyone was quietly taking advantage of the new system very happily and the key grumblers (as passionate in their defence of the old software as you are being, raising the exact same points) had to accept that it wasn’t in fact the catastrophe some predicted.

I’ll retract my offer to help and keep on using the forum as it is!

A passion to help improve something is very worthy ped, but you can't push things your way if other people aren't on board. Your offer to assist/improve should have been sent to Eddie direct? Eddie knows well enough what he wants to do with this site - it's only very recently that he allowed advertising onboard.

[ped]

A passion to help improve something is very worthy ped, but you can't push things your way if other people aren't on board. Your offer to assist/improve should have been sent to Eddie direct? Eddie knows well enough what he wants to do with this site - it's only very recently that he allowed advertising onboard.

Thanks. I’m not trying to push it if nobody wants it. Just saying it would be good to have a discussion and leave the vitriol and overly defensive borderline rage to one side! If you seriously think this thread proves the point that a simple update is somehow detrimental to the forum then no worries. I’ve retracted my offer which seems to have pleased the old guard, call that a result if it pleases you (not you specifically!) - I’m assuming they have shares in tapatalk!