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Thread: bloody hell just caught speeding

  1. #51
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Anyone who believes speed cameras are anything other than highway robbers is very naÔve, they have nothing to do with safety.
    You need a few weeks with a police RT crew.
    You might change your way of thinking.
    Speed restrictions are based on pedestrian survivability.30mph is considered the max speed for a pedestrian to survive an accident.
    Or 44 feet per second. I've done RT and it can be quite harrowing.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    You need a few weeks with a police RT crew.
    You might change your way of thinking.
    Speed restrictions are based on pedestrian survivability.30mph is considered the max speed for a pedestrian to survive an accident.
    Or 44 feet per second. I've done RT and it can be quite harrowing.
    Sorry OP I have to agree with Rod. I got done 37 in a 30 limit. I sat the course. It was well worth the 90 quid to understand what speeding can do. Take it on the chin and become more aware of why the speed limits are in place. I always look for standard lamps, if there are more than three then your usually in a 30 or less limit. I'm sure some of the course I sat would be available on line, well worth a look. Listening to Police traffic officers certainly open my eyes, and has made me a more considerate driver.
    Last edited by wildheart; 25th February 2021 at 11:39.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    You need a few weeks with a police RT crew.
    You might change your way of thinking.
    Speed restrictions are based on pedestrian survivability.30mph is considered the max speed for a pedestrian to survive an accident.
    Or 44 feet per second. I've done RT and it can be quite harrowing.
    My statement had nothing to do with the speed limit, but please answer one question, why do they always put the camera on the other side of the bend? if the motivation was safety it would be placed before the bend so that the vehicles slowed down.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    You need a few weeks with a police RT crew.
    You might change your way of thinking.
    Speed restrictions are based on pedestrian survivability.30mph is considered the max speed for a pedestrian to survive an accident.
    Or 44 feet per second. I've done RT and it can be quite harrowing.
    I understand, and if the mobile speed traps were located on suburban roads where the odd boy racer puts lives at risk maybe once every twenty minutes, rather than busy 'A' roads where a steady stream of motorists stray a few mph , putting nobody in danger, I'd agree with you. But there's very little financial return in the former. If road safety was the goal, that's where efforts would be focussed and EVERY first time offender would be offered a speed awareness course (no matter whether they got points or not). The larger the offence,m the greater the need for education.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    My statement had nothing to do with the speed limit, but please answer one question, why do they always put the camera on the other side of the bend? if the motivation was safety it would be placed before the bend so that the vehicles slowed down.
    What about the next bend and so on - not enough cameras for every bend. Place in unpredictable locations and hopefully sensible* drivers will always be mindful of their speed (esp. after ticket or two).

    *The flaw in my argument.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    My statement had nothing to do with the speed limit, but please answer one question, why do they always put the camera on the other side of the bend? if the motivation was safety it would be placed before the bend so that the vehicles slowed down.
    I don't know how revenue from fines works but I suspect it is first to do with metrics and results, judging an effectiveness of a speeding enforcement campaign by numbers of drivers caught rather than death reductions which are never going to provide the quantity of data to get recognition for a particular force or person in a leadership position. Human nature.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    What about the next bend and so on - not enough cameras for every bend. Place in unpredictable locations and hopefully sensible* drivers will always be mindful of their speed (esp. after ticket or two).

    *The flaw in my argument.
    Lets just deal with the cameras that they have commissioned, why are the cameras always installed after the bend where it is too late and they cannot be seen?................... oh hang on

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Lets just deal with the cameras that they have commissioned, why are the cameras always installed after the bend where it is too late and they cannot be seen?................... oh hang on
    If it were me I'd be careful at every bend if one was possibly lurking around it. Or even drive within the limits?

  9. #59
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Either set a Sat Nav or the car to alert you when you exceed the limit. Simples.
    ďThe more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.Ē

  10. #60
    Craftsman gshort67's Avatar
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    I did similar, no option for speed awareness course. Fine and 3 points for me !


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  11. #61
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    If the speed van was in a bus layby then likely not legally parked. Seen this a few times where these speed vans are technically breaking the law by were they are parked but they seem to get away with it.

    Believe they are also supposed to be visible as a deterrent to speeding in the first place, hence the high vis markings but again seen them backed into undergrowth to mask the markings and other such tricks, makes you wonder if the operators are on piece work or a bonus scheme.

    Fully understand the need for speed prevention but a van is only good for that, no use for preventing reclass or dangerous driving which is becoming more and more common.

    Hope you don't get to hard done by, as it is so easy to slip over the limit, or even not notice a change in limit in heavy traffic situations and unfamiliar roads. Find our Volvo V40 is a help as it has a speed sign recognition system which tell me the speed limit, though its not fool proof if the signs are overgrown or badly sighted.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    If it were me I'd be careful at every bend if one was possibly lurking around it. Or even drive within the limits?
    I got caught in Leighton Buzzard a couple of years ago, I was diverted around a road closure, never been there before in my life, it was a 30 limit, I went round a sharp blind bend and down a steep hill following the car in front of me in a line of traffic, there were cars behind me, there was succession of flashes, in a tree hidden next to but after the bend there was a camera pointing down the hill, I was clocked at 34 and did a speed awareness course, the last time I was caught speeding was 1979, I'm pretty sure that any driver not local that went down that hill gets caught, this had nothing to do with safety.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I got caught in Leighton Buzzard a couple of years ago, I was diverted around a road closure, never been there before in my life, it was a 30 limit, I went round a sharp blind bend and down a steep hill following the car in front of me in a line of traffic, there were cars behind me, there was succession of flashes, in a tree hidden next to but after the bend there was a camera pointing down the hill, I was clocked at 34 and did a speed awareness course, the last time I was caught speeding was 1979, I'm pretty sure that any driver not local that went down that hill gets caught, this had nothing to do with safety.
    You said it was a 30 limit, don't see a problem here. Some of the other drivers caught might have driven more slowly (and safely) the next day, month or the next time.

  14. #64
    Craftsman jonasy's Avatar
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    When speed cameras started to pop up en mass in Sweden about 15 years ago I also thought they were money making machines.

    But the reality is that the traffic has slowed down a lot where in the past people drove recklessly, people are sticking to limits and that makes the flow much better. Essentially itís now safer and no significant difference in travel time.

    They are however well signed and anyone getting a fine there rightly deserves so.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    You said it was a 30 limit, don't see a problem here. Some of the other drivers caught might have driven more slowly (and safely) the next day, month or the next time.
    Possibly, but as I said, I had never been down that road before and will probably never go there again, the camera is there for profit and not safety.

  16. #66
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    Anyone driven in Italy past speed cameras? I found the Italian driving bizarre...drive like a lunatic until you approach the camera then brake at the last minute and slow to well below the speed...like a good 15 mph below the actual speed limit.

  17. #67
    So I canít get access to my pics/video on line due to site issues and have rung the phone number 50 times today and no answer, I smell a rat

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Possibly, but as I said, I had never been down that road before and will probably never go there again, the camera is there for profit and not safety.
    Why's that particular road relevant? Do you need to be caught or see a camera in each road you travel before you won't speed in that location?

  19. #69
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    My statement had nothing to do with the speed limit, but please answer one question, why do they always put the camera on the other side of the bend? if the motivation was safety it would be placed before the bend so that the vehicles slowed down.
    I've seen them in all positions so they aren't always placed on a bend. I believe Tiger Woods accident was near our on a bend when he lost control... too fast?

  20. #70
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    Should be 3 points and £100 fine if you dont get the offer of a speed awareness course.

    Waze is great for screaming about cameras/police ahead so I echo the advice of getting it on your phone.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I've seen them in all positions so they aren't always placed on a bend. I believe Tiger Woods accident was near our on a bend when he lost control... too fast?
    I read that it was a sharp (American sharp) bend at the bottom of a steep hill and an accident blackspot

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Anyone who believes speed cameras are anything other than highway robbers is very naÔve, they have nothing to do with safety.

    I would take a pragmatic view if I got caught speeding, pay the tax and consider all of the times that I didn't get caught, even the most self righteous amongst us speed, it is unavoidable, especially in modern quiet smooth cars. Most speeding fine are for a few miles over and not hooligans driving like complete tossers, as they know where the traps are.
    But everything to do with law enforcement...

    I've never understood why they have to make cameras so visible. Having retired from a job doing 40k miles per year in the South of England it is just part of the day to see people generally speeding and only showing their brake lights when going past cameras, and then speeding up again...
    Last edited by redmonaco; 25th February 2021 at 15:35.

  23. #73
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    Iím doing a (virtual) speed awareness course on Saturday morning. NIP from North Yorks van on the A66. The strange this is, I still donít know what speed I was doing. The NIP says ďexceeding the 50mph limit. When I returned the form to declare I was the driver, one of the 3 offers was the course, so must have been in the ďzoneĒ, which for a 50 limit is 57 to 64, for such an offer. Paid my £80 and booked it online.


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  24. #74
    so cant still access the site to show proof of alleged crime ,and up to 55 calls ,still no answer? seems a bit odd

  25. #75
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    I got nabbed early last year, 42 or 43 in a 30 and got a speed awareness course, just. Seem to recall the cut-off being 44mph (at least in Leicestershire), so you might be lucky. Also did an online course, thought it was of little use personally however some people on it had no clue (IE, couldn't tell a motorway from a 3 lane A road even with a picture of blue signage!)

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter2704 View Post
    Yep thatís the place. Even stopped at the lights at the side of the van, they know your focusing on the lanes so not looking for the van
    Yes, it's a disgrace to put it there.
    A traffic light camera fair enough but like you say you are watching the lights.

  27. #77
    happened to me in Cambridge.... the 30 mph and 20 mph limits are probably 200 yards apart, usually quite careful there but still caught once

  28. #78
    Craftsman andymonkey's Avatar
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    I was pinched for doing 39 in a 30. This was from the website when I viewed the picture that was taken of my offence.
    £100 fine and three points. My license was clean so I chose not to do the speed awareness course.
    I think the OP may fall just underneath the threshold of more serious fines etc


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  29. #79
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    Did the camera snap you from the front? I only ask as I have just the one number plate, at the back.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    But everything to do with law enforcement...
    ...
    Yep................... if only they enforced all our other laws as vigorously!

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Yep................... if only they enforced all our other laws as vigorously!
    Indeed. That is what frustrates me, anything requiring work, effort or detective skills falls shy of the easy win with a speeder.

    Nobody is always 100% legal with their speed. I have a sporty car, I enjoy using it. People bumbling along at 30-45mph in an NSL with perfect conditions & visibility encourage overtaking.

    Often the slow drivers are the ones completely unaware of surroundings as they cannot process, or perhaps are not even looking at their surroundings beyond the 6ft ahead of their car.

    I used to commute 35k a year on motorways
    & weekends on the same roads scared the hell out of me, as it became amateur hour.

    A lot of holier than thou posts so far on here. Sorry you got caught OP. Letís remember cars are safer for pedestrians and occupants than they ever have been, but the limits remain the same from the days of the Anglia (or whatever Ford it was)


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  32. #82
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    I obey the 30/40 mph speed limits religiously- theyíre there for a reason. But I donít think a day passes where Iím not doing 70 in a 60.

  33. #83
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    Most cars over estimate the speed limit by 10%. So you get leeway of that 10%, then another 2mph and another 10%.

    So if the Speedo is showing 37-38 ish in a 30zone you should be fine. (?)

    I wouldnít want to risk it. A couple of years ago when the 20 zone had just come into force in Bristol, I pulled off the partway (50) to a road which had just been changed to a 20. Wide road, perfect visibility but there you go. Naturally there was a speed van there. I was pretty sure I wasnít speeding but knew Iíd be thinking about it all evening so I stopped and knocked on the van window to ask. I was polite, explained Iím not a nutter and just wanted to know. He was a nice bloke, and said that was completely in my right. in fact the camera hadnít been set up but he said he wasnít looking at any one under 30.

  34. #84
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    But as an aside, I cannot understand why people buy performance cars anymore. Maybe thereís more opportunities to use it in the North but in the SW it just feels a waste of time.

  35. #85
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    But as an aside, I cannot understand why people buy performance cars anymore. Maybe thereís more opportunities to use it in the North but in the SW it just feels a waste of time.
    For me they fall into the same category as expensive watches. Totally unnecessary but very enjoyable.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I obey the 30/40 mph speed limits religiously- theyíre there for a reason. But I donít think a day passes where Iím not doing 70 in a 60.
    Yes, agree & am religious with posted numerals. NSL Iím happy to use my judgement.


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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    For me they fall into the same category as expensive watches. Totally unnecessary but very enjoyable.
    Kind off, in the right place Iíd argue theyíre far more enjoyable than any watch. But they want be driven fast, idling around at 20 is actually frustrating. And whether you drive at the limit because itís morally correct or because of speed cameras the car is fighting you every minute to go faster, because ultimately thatís what theyíre built to do. And if you choose to drive like a boy race in this day and age it really is pathetic, we all know better. Very different than missing a sign and speeding

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Yep................... if only they enforced all our other laws as vigorously!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Indeed. That is what frustrates me, anything requiring work, effort or detective skills falls shy of the easy win with a speeder.
    I look at the stats now and then and most accidents are caused by carelessness/inattention. I bet for every person you have met who has been done for careless/'without due care' offences you've met 100 who have been caught speeding. I'd just like a risk based approach to traffic safety. As Mj2k says, speeding is enforced to the almost total exclusion of all else because it takes no effort.

    Here you go:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...table-ras50001

    In 2019, exceeding the speed limit was one factor (of potentially more than one) in 15% of fatal accidents. One fatality is too many but the stats show at least 85% of fatal accidents don't involve speed limit offences. Who is policing that 85%??

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I obey the 30/40 mph speed limits religiously- theyíre there for a reason. But I donít think a day passes where Iím not doing 70 in a 60.
    have been pinged 3 times in my life, each time 60 pounds fine and 3 points, and each time on the A5 between Ballygally and Omagh.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Yep................... if only they enforced all our other laws as vigorously!
    Or, if only we respected this law as we do most others....

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Mrs Tiny got done on Christmas Day, 86mph in a 70mph zone (motorway). She was fully expecting the book to be thrown at her, six points, hefty fine kinda thing and instead got the chance to do the (virtual) speed awareness course and a £60 fine. This was West Yorkshire police too (m62 on the way over to St Anneís for a socially distanced surprise present drop at her folks).
    You must be people that brought covid to St Annes

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    I look at the stats now and then and most accidents are caused by carelessness/inattention. I bet for every person you have met who has been done for careless/'without due care' offences you've met 100 who have been caught speeding. I'd just like a risk based approach to traffic safety. As Mj2k says, speeding is enforced to the almost total exclusion of all else because it takes no effort.

    Here you go:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...table-ras50001

    In 2019, exceeding the speed limit was one factor (of potentially more than one) in 15% of fatal accidents. One fatality is too many but the stats show at least 85% of fatal accidents don't involve speed limit offences. Who is policing that 85%??
    Many years ago I was stopped on slip road coming off motorway by unmarked police car. The copper said to me that he didn't know whether to book me for speeding or driving without due care and attention. He then asked me what speed I was doing. After quickly trying to work out lesser offence I told him speed which was a bit on the fast side. He told me it was close enough so I probably was paying attention and booked me for speeding. Very clever.

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by brigant View Post
    Many years ago I was stopped on slip road coming off motorway by unmarked police car. The copper said to me that he didn't know whether to book me for speeding or driving without due care and attention. He then asked me what speed I was doing. After quickly trying to work out lesser offence I told him speed which was a bit on the fast side. He told me it was close enough so I probably was paying attention and booked me for speeding. Very clever.
    Years ago a very senior policemen told me that if you are stopped for speeding that technically you can be prosecuted for two offences, when you answer the question do you know what speed you were travelling at, if you answer yes it is careless driving and if no it is driving without due care and attention,

  44. #94
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    Kind off, in the right place Iíd argue theyíre far more enjoyable than any watch. But they want be driven fast, idling around at 20 is actually frustrating. And whether you drive at the limit because itís morally correct or because of speed cameras the car is fighting you every minute to go faster, because ultimately thatís what theyíre built to do. And if you choose to drive like a boy race in this day and age it really is pathetic, we all know better. Very different than missing a sign and speeding
    I get what you are saying, no disagreement that itís impossible to enjoy the handling limits of a sports car unless you are on a track. Then again very few of us take our dive watches to 200m. Iíve had a succession of impractical cars for the last 30 years, enjoyed every one and never driven like a boy racer. I love their beauty, the engineering details, the quirks, the engine sounds, the history...

    My friend just got a Tesla. Itís amazing in many ways and faster than my Maserati to 60. The ride is better and the running costs minute by comparison.

    I drove with my son to Le Mans a few years ago for the 24 Hours. Driving the Maserati there and back with him, with the roof down, is something Iíll never forget. I get a tiny bit of that feeling every time I drive to the shops. For me, Iíd never get that in a more conventional car.

  45. #95
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    Why are some more aggrieved that they Ďcouldnít see the vaní, itís irrelevant?

    As the OP has found out, it does bother people when they get a NIP through the post, the website visiting and the 50+ phone calls is evidence of that, so in that sense itís having the desired effect. It does make you think about speeding, which is the point really.

    Iím not holier than thou either, I was snapped by a safety camera van in Wales a few years ago, but was offered the SAC and actually found it interesting.

    SACs do raise revenue for the police and local authority, as well as the government, whereas the FPN revenue goes to the treasury IIRC, one of the reasons theyíre popular with forces/LAs, but theyíre only offered for so called Ďmarginal speedersí.

    I ended up in quite a protracted discussion with the local Inspector over a safety camera van, it was on a mile long straight into the village, rather than outside the school in the 30 where my daughter crosses the road 4 times a day. When I asked why, I got some nonsense about the straight is where the accidents had been, mostly Sunday bikers, so thatís where the camera van should go. I argued at the weekend, yes, but Mon to Fri in school time surely it should be outside the school. He eventually agreed with me!

    The retired folks in the village also setup and staffed a community speed watch scheme, speeding was a problem all the time and especially between 0500-0630 when nobody expected police to be enforcing speed limits. They clocked a van doing 63mph in a 30mph limit.

    A couple of mornings they were joined by 2 uniformed officers who had a field day stopping speeders, especially the bloke who was making w@$&3r signs as he passed within the speed limit presumably what he thought were a bunch of Ďdo goodersí pretending to be traffic police.

    Emotive subject speed enforcement.

  46. #96
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    I remember some years ago the then chief constable of North Wales was regularly in the news defending his policy of zero tolerance for speeding (think he was nabbed himself shortly after but that's another story).

    Anyway, an interviewer asked him to justify policing speeding so heavily when burglars were not being caught, to which he replied something along the lines of "last year in my constabulary alone 700 people were killed or had life changing injuries due to speed related incidents, not one person was hurt in a burglary". He was a contentious and controversial figure for sure but his reply made me think.
    Last edited by Ruggertech; 26th February 2021 at 10:49.

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    I remember some years ago the then chief constable of North Wales was regularly in the news defending his policy of zero tolerance for speeding (think he was nabbed himself shortly after but that's another story).
    Anyway, an interviewer asked him to justify policing speeding so heavily when burglars were not being caught, to which he replied something along the lines of "last year in my constabulary alone 700 people were killed or had life changing injuries due to speed related incidents, not one person was hurt in a burglary". He was a contentious and controversial figure for sure but his reply made me think.
    If that were recently nearly half the road deaths in Great Britain happened in North Wales https://assets.publishing.service.go...eport-2019.pdf

  48. #98
    If the speed traps were positioned where people are most likely to get hurt rather than where they're most likely to get caught, I don't think there would be nearly so much acrimony.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    If that were recently nearly half the road deaths in Great Britain happened in North Wales https://assets.publishing.service.go...eport-2019.pdf
    They weren't all deaths as stated and I made the quote up from memory as stated so it may be lower. But North Wales figures were high then (and maybe still are) at least partly due to the race replica bike brigade crowding the mountain roads on weekends and going crazy.

  50. #100
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    I did the speed awareness course several years ago, no tickets since then unless one is in the post as I write. Found it very informative, and it definitely slowed me down, my speed has crept up again now though. Not boy racer speeding but the creeping over the limit that is so easy to do in modern vehicles without noticing as others have alluded to. Don't think I'd blame the van for being there if I am zapped though, my right foot would be the culprit.

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