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Thread: End of an Era (Work Related)

  1. #51
    Master
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    Lots of good advice in this thread. I'm also considering a career move at the moment. Lots to mull over, especially in the current situation.

    A good piece of advice I was given, was to ask yourself are you running away from your current job or running to the new one. If the former stay put and see if you can work it out or at least delay and see what is around the corner. If the latter, go for it.

  2. #52
    Grand Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    Is it worth it?
    Is it more rewarding (not financial)?
    Why are you looking for change?
    Will you be better off in 5 / 10 years?

  3. #53
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    I wouldn't dispute the (potential) value of a final salary pension scheme but it's worth remembering there are many in the public sector who won't secure a promotion in the latter years of their career so they will have seen the real value of their pension eroded due to public sector pay rises sitting below inflation for most years; many longer serving members on their max may have received barely any pensionable pay increases for years. Add to that the lack of access to the pension pot that private sector employees enjoy and it becomes clearer that is a good pension but not as gold plated for everyone as it's made out to be.

  4. #54
    Master Skier's Avatar
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    After a 30 year career as a military officer, I left in 2017 and took a bit of time out to do some short-term contracting and complete an MBA. It made me very aware that I wasn't ready to completely retire even though I could happily do so from a financial perspective. I'm now a Management Consultant into a Government Department and really enjoying the challenge and change. My skill/USP is solving complex problems when people say that it can't be done (either organisationally or technologically). I don't know why but I seem to have a knack of managing people, stakeholder relationships and technological solutions to successful outcomes where others have failed.

    Look at what truly drives/excites you rather than the money or status; they will follow if you're in a role that drives you. In addition to the day job a role I took on in Dec 2020 was the leadership of 72 contractors - Jesus, this saps my time and has resulted in averaging 14hr+ days - in military parlance J1 (personnel) issues are a time thief!

  5. #55
    If possible. Use the offer as an opportunity to go in and negotiate a promotion or pay rise.
    It's just a matter of time...

  6. #56
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    J1 (personnel) issues are a time thief!
    In my experience it is a regular small minority of personnel that steal the vast majority of the time.
    Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH

  7. #57
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    You've been quite open about your financial situation over the years, David, so I'd say it's down to risk versus reward.

    I've had a similar quandary in the past where I've been comfortable in a stable, fairly well paid position and turned down opportunities because of stability. I then decided that if I didn't make a move soon I'd been in the same company for life (whatever that means), and would probably look back with regret, so I (we) decided to go full throttle and relocate overseas. It's a decision I've never regretted and has afforded us a lifestyle that could never have been achieved in the old position.

    But as others have said, now is maybe not the ideal time to be making such decisions, and (as again others have said) you may be able to use this opportunity as leverage for a quicker entry for promotion or a pay increase with your current employer?

    Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

  8. #58
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    I'd say you've worked hard for 29 years as a free man. And a free man you are - don't forget.

    What will you do with that freedom? Will you fight for what you want? Stay, and you'll be fine. Leave, and you could be fired.

    But lying in your bed many years from now, will it bother you that you had a chance and didn't take it?

    Would you be willing to trade all your working days from this to retirement for one chance, just one chance to find something new? Then you could come back here having told your current colleagues that they may use your change skills, but they'll never take your freedom.
    With acknowledgements to Braveheart.
    Last edited by AlphaOmega; 25th February 2021 at 08:33.

  9. #59
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    A lot of people so far have brought up the final salary pension as you're currently in the public sector. I'm going to use the example of the Civil Service pension scheme:

    If you're on the Civil Service pension scheme, the minimum that your employer needs to put into your pension scheme is 26.6% of your salary as an employer contribution. This is on top of the 5-7% of your salary that you contribute to your scheme every month.

    https://www.civilservicepensionschem...es-for-202021/

    By contrast, a private sector employer might just be putting in the 3% minimum into your pension scheme if you join the private sector employer and they are just paying in the minimum they are required to do as an employer by the Government.

    https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov...ension-scheme-

    So, the difference between the public and private pension contribution into your pension pot would be at least 23.3% of your salary each year.

    In your situation, one of the things I would be thinking about is whether the pay rise from joining the private sector would be worth that difference in contribution towards my retirement and whether there is a prospect of future promotion which would change this equation. I would have a chat with the pension people about this.

    Hope I'm not talking gobbledegook here. Best of luck!

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    If possible. Use the offer as an opportunity to go in and negotiate a promotion or pay rise.
    Doesn’t work like that unfortunately.

  11. #61
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    Doesn’t work like that unfortunately.
    You can’t say that exclusively.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    You can’t say that exclusively.
    Fair and Open competition innit.

    In 22 years I’ve never come across anyone that was able to use an external offer to improve their lot. The rules on promotion are strict and as an internal appointee you would get 10% or the band minimum, whichever is the greater.

    You also have to apply for a specific job on promotion, you can’t be promoted in the role you’re doing as that will be graded at a specific grade.

    As I said, it doesn’t work like that.

  13. #63
    Grand Master TaketheCannoli's Avatar
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    Absolutely and unfortunately this. It's why the CS will never be as successful as it could be. Retention of talent is not something they're remotely interested in.

    I've been temporarily promoted for the last 12 months and have been really successful. Despite being offered a role elsewhere and being qualified in the grade and on a reserve list I can't be offered my role substantively because 'the list' I'm on is with another Government Department. It doesn't matter that I've reached the Cabinet Office standard for the grade, it has to also be in my Department. If it's advertised substantively I'll have to apply for it. Being in the role for 12 months and also during the exercise also makes no difference. I would be interviewed by people who likely have never met me or know anything about me.

    On this occasion I have actually raised the absurdity through my Director who in-turn raised it with HR. The response? See Ya.

    Even after 29 successful years of service and being the right person for the role I'm in, it's more important to adhere to protocols and procedures than do the right thing for the business and the individual. One of the reasons, the main reason actually, why I looked externally.

    EDIT: this has literally just happened now. A guy we recruited in January as an analyst has been working for me and he's very good. He's just messaged me to say thank you for being a great bloke and manager but he's looking to leave the Department "at the earliest possible opportunity". That's such a shame and such an utter waste of time and money in the recruitment and onboarding process.


    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    Fair and Open competition innit.



    In 22 years I’ve never come across anyone that was able to use an external offer to improve their lot. The rules on promotion are strict and as an internal appointee you would get 10% or the band minimum, whichever is the greater.

    You also have to apply for a specific job on promotion, you can’t be promoted in the role you’re doing as that will be graded at a specific grade.

    As I said, it doesn’t work like that.
    Last edited by TaketheCannoli; 25th February 2021 at 14:36.

  14. #64
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Absolutely and unfortunately this. It's why the CS will never be as successful as it could be. Retention of talent is not something they're remotely interested in.

    I've been temporarily promoted for the last 12 months and have been really successful. Despite being offered a role elsewhere and being qualified in the grade and on a reserve list I can't be offered my role substantively because 'the list' I'm on is with another Government Department. It doesn't matter that I've reached the Cabinet Office standard for the grade, it has to also be in my Department. If it's advertised substantively I'll have to apply for it. Being in the role for 12 months and also during the exercise also makes no difference. I would be interviewed by people who likely have never met me or know anything about me.

    On this occasion I have actually raised the absurdity through my Director who in-turn raised it with HR. The response? See Ya.

    Even after 29 successful years of service and being the right person for the role I'm in, it's more important to adhere to protocols and procedures than do the right thing for the business and the individual. One of the reasons, the main reason actually, why I looked externally.
    As I said above, I wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes. You’re a better man than me David, to clock up 29 years of that.

  15. #65
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    Fair and Open competition innit.

    In 22 years I’ve never come across anyone that was able to use an external offer to improve their lot. The rules on promotion are strict and as an internal appointee you would get 10% or the band minimum, whichever is the greater.

    You also have to apply for a specific job on promotion, you can’t be promoted in the role you’re doing as that will be graded at a specific grade.

    As I said, it doesn’t work like that.
    I see you are talking specifically about the public sector. I was talking in general. Apologies.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    I see you are talking specifically about the public sector. I was talking in general. Apologies.
    No worries. The public sector is a strange beast!

  17. #67
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    David, as with most people the major factor in your decision making process won't come down to pension benefits, work life balance or promotion prospects. It will boil down to are you a glass half full or a glass half empty type of person, if you're the former you'll be much more likely to welcome the new opportunities and leave. The latter and you're more likely to stay put and carry on with the safer option. Neither option is right or wrong but character traits are a very powerful driver in these situations.

  18. #68
    Craftsman Gromdal's Avatar
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    The public sector is bonkers at any sort of talent retention and relies solely at times on accountability within the role rather than actual competence when it comes to working out the grade - I've been in local government for 14 years and frankly the only time I've looked into applying for civil service (specifically the ONS) I've walked away at the interview stage saying no thanks, happier where I am, because it's a box ticking exercise by people who don't know the job role except for the description on the piece of paper in front of them but somehow are conducting the interview, makes my blood boil. There was zero ability to even ask about scope of works undertaken or team dynamic which is just a massive red flag for me, it was more about being a cog in the machine than anything else.

  19. #69
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    Interesting position, sounds like by the time you changed you would have 30/80 public pension rights accrued and with another 16/17 years to state retirement age you could accrue a reasonable private pension pot of which you could bank 100% funds by refusing an annuity (and opt not to take any lump sum from your public pension in order to maximise that annuity )?
    That said, in 6 years time, or so, you may start to lose your energy/drive - will you be able to keep up with the pace/pressure in the private sector?
    The important thing is to make an informed choice, accept it, and not become an embittered oldie who bores people with comments about how unfairly you've been treated because the youngsters were promoted over you.

  20. #70
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    I didn't realise the OP worked for the Civil Service. One of my school friends joined DEFRA (or MAFF as it was then, I think) straight from School. I don't know what grade he was but amongst other things he used to write briefs for ministers that they would present to parliament - so a reasonable level of responsibility. At 53 he decided he wanted early retirement and after a bit of a tussle with whoever signs these things off, he retired. He had the opportunity to return part time or take on consultancy but turned everything down to concentrate on his hobbies and voluntary work.

    No idea whether such opportunities are on the OP's radar but it reinforces the potential value of a public sector pension.

  21. #71
    Craftsman Paul J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    I'm about to turn 49. My biggest concern is my pension. I've been on leave for a few days but when I get back I need to talk to the pension people about what happens to mine; I assume it'll be frozen at it's value today.
    We're the same age, 7 years ago I made a change and fortunately it went well so it can happen. I'd consider whether the current climate is right for change, the implications of this pandemic will resonate for years to come. On the bright side, you have been made an offer - might it be worth using said offer to open a dialogue with your current employer? I should think it would be a good starting point for a conversation about promotion, after all, you actually have a bona fide offer in your hand that you can accept today.

    Whatever you decide, my best regards and I hope it goes well and you get what you're looking for 👍

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    I've been temporarily promoted for the last 12 months..
    I know you said you weren't on a FS pension but is it that you're on Alpha now but have substantial service under the old FS scheme? If so then it's worth bearing in mind the impact your increased salary over the last 12 months could have on your FS pension if you left in the next couple of years. If you stay and remain on your lower consolidated grade pay then after 3-4 years that higher pay would no longer count towards yours FS pension. It could be worth crystallizing it IF you believe you'd stay on your substantive lower grade until retirement.

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