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Thread: ROLEX: actually some of the most reliable watches or is it just marketing?

  1. #101
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    Could be down to Scotland being much less w*nky than England

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Could be down to Scotland being much less w*nky than England
    You're obviously bad to the bone!!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    Whilst I was making the Mont Blanc comment I was looking at the silver fountain pens that I own, so I was comparing like with like. The diffence with the BP FF, art piece, cake and labrador is that the "maker" is not claiming that they are made of precious resin.
    Still not sure on the relevance to be honest. Probably a tenner of material in a sterling silver fountain pen. You're not paying primarily for the raw materials.

    Anyway my point is that folk are perfectly entitled to not give two hoots about brand image, but we're kidding ourselves if we don't acknowledge that the majority of people do care. It's not just a Rolex thing, most luxury watch brands are in the same boat, it's just Rolex are amongst the best at branding. As per the benefits in my last post, it does have a material impact to the end user beyond just showing off (which I take from your other comment is one of your main concerns).

    But all that said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone deciding they don't want that association or aren't comfortable wearing a watch of that nature.

  4. #104
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    There is no brand that doesn't present or market an image. Not one.

    Why the F people revert to stuff like "projecting an image" when it comes to Rolex alone baffles me.

    Okay Omega wearers who want to be Buzz Aldrin Ed White or Piers Brosnan slash Daniel Craig.
    Okay BPFF wearers who think theyre Jacques Cousteau and wouldnt be seen dead wearing the dive watch that everybody else wears because theyre different and float under the radar like a French marine combat swimmer.
    Okay Rolex wearers who fancy themselves as Sean Connery and like to lisp at the ladies. I touch my shelf.
    Fair do's Smiths wearers who will tell you daily that they were up the peak first while channeling Hillary or Norgay and making you aware that Rolex is a lying abominable snowman.
    No trouble Heuer wearers who would set fire to the later Tag part because they want the McQueen Monaco vibe without being sullied by Leonardo Di Caprio.
    Up to you IWC wearers who want to hark back to the Luftwaffe while reading the little prince and enjoy the kind of power reserve that means you can leave it as a bedside clock for a week after making a wayne-kerr sign at an Audi for five seconds.
    No drama Panerai and the sea pig Italian navy Sylvester Stallone's libido luminor.
    Do your thing Dirk Pitt Doxa wearers who like the laid back Matt Mcconaughey vibe and the idea of pulling Salma Hayek.
    If you want to sign with a Mont Blanc then do so but just know that afficionados prefer Pelikan and those who know, know.
    Those who know better than the Pelikan users sign their names with a Namiki while wearing the Nudies that havent been washed in a year because RAW, MAN! and turn up the cuffs over the Trickers while carrying the Belstaffs and wearing the Barbours with the Ray-Bans and driving the Porsches with the BMW's for touring and the Triumphs for playtime while paying for it all out of the Goyard rather than the LV because everyone knows Goyard is under the radar higher quality and LV has been overrun by tourists...

    ...or let all the folks know know that you've transcended brand fashion by wearing something knocked up by Matalan with shoes from the Catalan and walk to the beat of your own unpredictable and unswayed by marketing veblen branding and contemporary fashion drum.

    Everything anyone does whether its buy into brands or buy into eschewing brands is a projection of an image, the image depends entirely on the individual but every action is designed for a reaction whether its conscious or not.

    (NB, this was not an aggressive rant, I just enjoyed writing it to illustrate the point!)
    Nice summary.
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  5. #105
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    Verv and Templogin, excellent, instructive, and amusing posts here, thank you.

  6. #106
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    Like most things in life, if the purchase isn’t for “you”, don’t bother.

    If it “sings” to you, you know what to do.

  7. #107
    Journeyman Wandril's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your answers, and especially for people who took the time to share some real life experience and to bring some variety in the thread!

    Rest assured I'm not torturing myself to know what to do, I just enjoy discussing and learning, so I can give the credit where it's due and continue to be passionate about watches in general.

    I'm aware of many facets of rolex and this whole image thing (which is not specific to rolex, but they just tend to be the best at it), I just wanted to know what else is about them, and a lot of answers there have been very instructive!

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    Their movements are the calibre 3120 with a DD module bolted on. 3120 is found in some of their "dress" watch range and the standard RO.
    Its high end but the pay-off is that there's more that can go awry, particularly when sold inside a "sports" watch thats supposed to be able to take a few knocks.
    Theres something like 370 odd parts on the go in the AP vs 200 that go into the Rolex 3135.
    170 more things to worry about when skiing or whatever you do in them.

    I guess regular royal oaks get a bit more care taken with them as they're 50m rated and people perhaps treat them with more care than they would the offshore which gives the aura of brute to a higher degree. Although ive seen some RO's that have suffered with water ingress and gone rusty.
    Thank you for the reply. Makes sense.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Nice summary.
    How strange - I found it to be patronising and cringeworthy.

  10. #110
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandril View Post
    Thank you all for your answers, and especially for people who took the time to share some real life experience and to bring some variety in the thread!

    Rest assured I'm not torturing myself to know what to do, I just enjoy discussing and learning, so I can give the credit where it's due and continue to be passionate about watches in general.

    I'm aware of many facets of rolex and this whole image thing (which is not specific to rolex, but they just tend to be the best at it), I just wanted to know what else is about them, and a lot of answers there have been very instructive!
    It's usually helpful to hear people's actual experiences as as you say.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    How strange - I found it to be patronising and cringeworthy.
    Aww my heart bleeds.

  12. #112
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    Rolex was to me, the common man's branded watch. A nice one nonetheless but very ordinary.

    After abstaining from watch purchases for some years, i was surprised to find that i can no longer walk into a rolex AD and buy a simple submariner without having to put my name on a waiting list..

    Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

  13. #113
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    I'm absolutely not interested in any brand name, if a product is quality made and has a long lifespan they can put the name 'Shit' on the tag, it would be fine by me.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  14. #114
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    I'm absolutely not interested in any brand name, if a product is quality made and has a long lifespan they can put the name 'Shit' on the tag, it would be fine by me.
    So a company's name wouldn't put you off then?
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    So a company's name wouldn't put you off then?
    Only Marcello C. But thatís just silly me.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  16. #116
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    Only Marcello C. But thatís just silly me.
    What about....

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    I'd rather pay twice as much than buy from a company called 'Wristers', and I'm poor.
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  17. #117
    Grand Master Daddelvirks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    What about....
    Itís not a product, itís the name of a company, as you well know.

    But Iíll let you argue with yourself, now I know why I visit WT only ever so often.

    Bye.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  18. #118
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    Itís not a product, itís the name of a company, as you well know.

    But Iíll let you argue with yourself, now I know why I visit WT only ever so often.

    Bye.

    Calm down dear, just thought it odd when you said it that was all, knowing how you don't worry about names.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    There is no brand that doesn't present or market an image. Not one.

    Why the F people revert to stuff like "projecting an image" when it comes to Rolex alone baffles me.

    Okay Omega wearers who want to be Buzz Aldrin Ed White or Piers Brosnan slash Daniel Craig.
    Okay BPFF wearers who think theyre Jacques Cousteau and wouldnt be seen dead wearing the dive watch that everybody else wears because theyre different and float under the radar like a French marine combat swimmer.
    Okay Rolex wearers who fancy themselves as Sean Connery and like to lisp at the ladies. I touch my shelf.
    Fair do's Smiths wearers who will tell you daily that they were up the peak first while channeling Hillary or Norgay and making you aware that Rolex is a lying abominable snowman.
    No trouble Heuer wearers who would set fire to the later Tag part because they want the McQueen Monaco vibe without being sullied by Leonardo Di Caprio.
    Up to you IWC wearers who want to hark back to the Luftwaffe while reading the little prince and enjoy the kind of power reserve that means you can leave it as a bedside clock for a week after making a wayne-kerr sign at an Audi for five seconds.
    No drama Panerai and the sea pig Italian navy Sylvester Stallone's libido luminor.
    Do your thing Dirk Pitt Doxa wearers who like the laid back Matt Mcconaughey vibe and the idea of pulling Salma Hayek.
    If you want to sign with a Mont Blanc then do so but just know that afficionados prefer Pelikan and those who know, know.
    Those who know better than the Pelikan users sign their names with a Namiki while wearing the Nudies that havent been washed in a year because RAW, MAN! and turn up the cuffs over the Trickers while carrying the Belstaffs and wearing the Barbours with the Ray-Bans and driving the Porsches with the BMW's for touring and the Triumphs for playtime while paying for it all out of the Goyard rather than the LV because everyone knows Goyard is under the radar higher quality and LV has been overrun by tourists...

    ...or let all the folks know know that you've transcended brand fashion by wearing something knocked up by Matalan with shoes from the Catalan and walk to the beat of your own unpredictable and unswayed by marketing veblen branding and contemporary fashion drum.

    Everything anyone does whether its buy into brands or buy into eschewing brands is a projection of an image, the image depends entirely on the individual but every action is designed for a reaction whether its conscious or not.

    (NB, this was not an aggressive rant, I just enjoyed writing it to illustrate the point!)
    Ha. Very good!

  20. #120
    Craftsman wits's Avatar
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    Really interesting thread.
    I've owned a rolex or 2 bought them as I like my watches iconic.
    Navitimer and Monaco are similar iconic pieces I have
    My tastes though run to quality not quantity.
    Omega are decent but Jesus h they have more limited editions than unlimited editions,how can they be taken seriously.
    I would much rather have less "things"but nicer things.
    Rolex fall into that category for me.

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  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCalvinus View Post
    Rolex was to me, the common man's branded watch. A nice one nonetheless but very ordinary.
    It sounds like you havenít spent much time with the common man.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    It sounds like you havenít spent much time with the common man.
    Okay, it should read 'common working professional'. Every other lawyer, accountant, sales man, insurance agent, property broker wears a rolex. The investment guys, doctors, and dentists tend to do AP or PP...

    For me, its usually something from timefactors...

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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by wits View Post
    Really interesting thread.
    I've owned a rolex or 2 bought them as I like my watches iconic.
    Navitimer and Monaco are similar iconic pieces I have
    My tastes though run to quality not quantity.
    Omega are decent but Jesus h they have more limited editions than unlimited editions,how can they be taken seriously.
    I would much rather have less "things"but nicer things.
    Rolex fall into that category for me.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    Fair one for omega and the limited editions haha!
    Can't deny the appeal of a watch seen as an icon, but whether or not I'll let myself go for it or not will be depending on the actual quality of it of course

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Well said C.

    Plenty of people like to think they are above marketing and enjoying their virtue signalling but at the end of the day, as you say, every brand presents an image of some sort.
    But they're not fashion watches, oh, no.

  25. #125
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCalvinus View Post
    Okay, it should read 'common working professional'. Every other lawyer, accountant, sales man, insurance agent, property broker wears a rolex. The investment guys, doctors, and dentists tend to do AP or PP...
    I note your location, and that was absolutely my experience when living in SEA. A standard to indicate a certain level of success and status.
    💙

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    I note your location, and that was absolutely my experience when living in SEA. A standard to indicate a certain level of success and status.
    Today's taxi driver was wearing a submariner. Junior guy fresh out of uni was wearing a seiko sumo, another a tudor blackbay....

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  27. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCalvinus View Post
    Today's taxi driver was wearing a submariner. Junior guy fresh out of uni was wearing a seiko sumo, another a tudor blackbay....

    Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
    The Seiko and the Tudor were probably real.

  28. #128
    Journeyman Wandril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    The Seiko and the Tudor were probably real.

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    There is no brand that doesn't present or market an image. Not one.

    Why the F people revert to stuff like "projecting an image" when it comes to Rolex alone baffles me.

    Okay Omega wearers who want to be Buzz Aldrin Ed White or Piers Brosnan slash Daniel Craig.
    Okay BPFF wearers who think theyre Jacques Cousteau and wouldnt be seen dead wearing the dive watch that everybody else wears because theyre different and float under the radar like a French marine combat swimmer.
    Okay Rolex wearers who fancy themselves as Sean Connery and like to lisp at the ladies. I touch my shelf.
    Fair do's Smiths wearers who will tell you daily that they were up the peak first while channeling Hillary or Norgay and making you aware that Rolex is a lying abominable snowman.
    No trouble Heuer wearers who would set fire to the later Tag part because they want the McQueen Monaco vibe without being sullied by Leonardo Di Caprio.
    Up to you IWC wearers who want to hark back to the Luftwaffe while reading the little prince and enjoy the kind of power reserve that means you can leave it as a bedside clock for a week after making a wayne-kerr sign at an Audi for five seconds.
    No drama Panerai and the sea pig Italian navy Sylvester Stallone's libido luminor.
    Do your thing Dirk Pitt Doxa wearers who like the laid back Matt Mcconaughey vibe and the idea of pulling Salma Hayek.
    If you want to sign with a Mont Blanc then do so but just know that afficionados prefer Pelikan and those who know, know.
    Those who know better than the Pelikan users sign their names with a Namiki while wearing the Nudies that havent been washed in a year because RAW, MAN! and turn up the cuffs over the Trickers while carrying the Belstaffs and wearing the Barbours with the Ray-Bans and driving the Porsches with the BMW's for touring and the Triumphs for playtime while paying for it all out of the Goyard rather than the LV because everyone knows Goyard is under the radar higher quality and LV has been overrun by tourists...

    ...or let all the folks know know that you've transcended brand fashion by wearing something knocked up by Matalan with shoes from the Catalan and walk to the beat of your own unpredictable and unswayed by marketing veblen branding and contemporary fashion drum.

    Everything anyone does whether its buy into brands or buy into eschewing brands is a projection of an image, the image depends entirely on the individual but every action is designed for a reaction whether its conscious or not.

    (NB, this was not an aggressive rant, I just enjoyed writing it to illustrate the point!)
    Damn that was good!

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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    The Seiko and the Tudor were probably real.
    In the covid situation, many guys who were formerly in the hotel, travel and retail industry lost their jobs and became grab drivers. So i wouldn't put it past the taxi driver having a real rolex.

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  31. #131
    Journeyman Wandril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCalvinus View Post
    In the covid situation, many guys who were formerly in the hotel, travel and retail industry lost their jobs and became grab drivers. So i wouldn't put it past the taxi driver having a real rolex.

    Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
    That's a good point

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandril View Post
    It's true omega lacks a bit of consistency regarding their designs, apart from the classic speedmaster.
    I'm not sure Rolex are that great in this respect either. You've got the classic Sub (and it's various offshoots) and the Datejust, but then you've got things like the Yachtmaster (and II), the Celinis and the Daytona which all (to a degree, at least) got their own way. Not to mention their quartz models which had a design of their own, largely ignored in the rest of the range (actually one of my favourites!).

    Personally, I think Omega has been far more imaginative and exciting as a brand - Yes, they've had some howlers, but also some stunning watches along the years, now mostly forgotten.

    Everyone thinks 911 when they think Porsche, but they also made the 914, the 924/944/968 and 928. The Rolex/Porsche analogy is done to death, but in this respect I think it's valid.

    I do like a watch that stays true to its heritage (eg the Submariner, the Navitimer or the Speedmaster), but doing something different in the brand isn't a negative in my view.

    I find Rolex, on the whole, either a bit too ubiquitous to engender any interest ('familiarity breeds contempt') or plain unattractive (to me, beauty is, of course, in the eye...)

    M
    Last edited by snowman; Yesterday at 16:51.
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  33. #133
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    Huge clock?

  34. #134
    Journeyman Wandril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I'm not sure Rolex are that great in this respect either. You've got the classic Sub (and it's various offshoots) and the Datejust, but then you've got things like the Yachtmaster (and II), the Celinis and the Daytona which all (to a degree, at least) got their own way.

    Personally, I think Omega has been far more imaginative and exciting as a brand - Yes, they've had some howlers, but also some stunning watches along the years, now mostly forgotten.

    Everyone thinks 911 when they think Porsche, but they also made the 914, the 924/944/968 and 928.

    I do like a watch that stays true to its heritage (eg the Submariner, the Navitimer or the Speedmaster), but doing something different in the brand isn't a negative in my view.

    I find Rolex, on the whole, either a bit too ubiquitous to engender any interest (familiarity breeds contempt) or plain unattractive (to me, beauty is, of course, in the eye...)

    M
    I didn't try to slag off omega, if anything it is one of my favourite brands, and I love the speedy.
    The point in the limited editions, is not here to say they're not good or exciting, it's just saying that they are so many editions in the same range, it's easy to get lost.
    Rolex seems to have a few different ranges, but not too many limited editions so it seems easier to not get lost

  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCalvinus View Post
    Rolex was to me, the common man's branded watch. A nice one nonetheless but very ordinary.

    After abstaining from watch purchases for some years, i was surprised to find that i can no longer walk into a rolex AD and buy a simple submariner without having to put my name on a waiting list..

    Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
    Struggling to see how Rolexes are 'very ordinary.' The brand does go beyond the 6 digit ones that are caught in the hype these years. Vintage Rolexes are beautifully made and they can be had without walking into an AD. The gilt dial 1016 Haywood posted recently for example, would not be 'the common man's branded watch'.

  36. #136
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandril View Post
    I didn't try to slag off omega, if anything it is one of my favourite brands, and I love the speedy.
    The point in the limited editions, is not here to say they're not good or exciting, it's just saying that they are so many editions in the same range, it's easy to get lost.
    Rolex seems to have a few different ranges, but not too many limited editions so it seems easier to not get lost
    No, I appreciate that, just saying that while Rolex have some iconic designs, they've also had a few less so...

    Omega's dilution of the Speedmaster 'brand' with never-ending 'special editions' isn't something I suspect Rolex would have done, but then I doubt they'd still be making a Speedmaster that was (almost) unchanged from that which went to to the moon.

    As with the Sub, they'd probably have fattened and blinged it into something 'better'.

    You can't argue against their success though, so they're clearly doing something that the market wants.

    Someone mentioned how their marketing has shifted from 'exciting lifestyle' to 'luxury lifestyle' and I guess that's probably why they've increasingly dropped in my interest - I don't aspire to a 'luxury lifestyle' even if I could afford one, but millions do.

    M
    Last edited by snowman; Yesterday at 16:58.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    No, I appreciate that, just saying that while Rolex have some iconic designs, they've also had a few less so...

    Omega's dilution of the Speedmaster 'brand' with never-ending 'special editions' isn't something I suspect Rolex would have done, but then I doubt they'd still be making a Speedmaster that was (almost) unchanged from that which went to to the moon.

    As with the Sub, they'd probably have fattened and blinged it into something 'better'.

    You can't argue against their success though, so they're clearly doing something that the market wants.

    Someone mentioned how their marketing has shifted from 'exciting lifestyle' to 'luxury lifestyle' and I guess that's probably why they've increasingly dropped in my interest - I don't aspire to a 'luxury lifestyle' even if I could afford one, but millions do.

    M
    Totally agree on the market shift for rolex, and it doesn't attract me at all, I wish they were still making simply elegant watches.
    I'm more hyped by the great white on the SC that a yachtmaster, no doubt about that!

    The speedmaster is incredible for me, I love the fact they kept it almost unchanged for about 50 years, and that they kept the original one without ceramic, shiny hands, applied indices etc...
    The fact it still looks perfect in 2021 demonstrates how this design is great in my opinion.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyzzj View Post
    Struggling to see how Rolexes are 'very ordinary.' The brand does go beyond the 6 digit ones that are caught in the hype these years. Vintage Rolexes are beautifully made and they can be had without walking into an AD. The gilt dial 1016 Haywood posted recently for example, would not be 'the common man's branded watch'.
    It must have been slightly more than 10, 15 years ago, as a younger WIS, i could get a sub no date for 4500 singapore dollars, sub date for 5500 or a sd for about 6500 singapore dollars from a second hand watch shop... I was surprised how much prices have gone up since then...

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