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Thread: PRS-30

  1. #201
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen sager


    this is an insanely beautiful watch and if it was 42mm would be my first TF watch.
    But would you buy it if it was quartz?

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  2. #202
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    Re: PRS-30

    That does look really nice ..

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne
    But would you buy it if it was quartz?
    Umm, not sure, would prefer an auto, but would not rule out a quartz ..
    /vince ..

  3. #203
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen sager


    this is an insanely beautiful watch and if it was 42mm would be my first TF watch.
    But would you buy it if it was quartz?

    Eddie
    Are you thinking ani-digi, Eddie? That space on the bottom half would make an interesting spot for a digital read-out, especially if it matched the black of the dial so that it did not stand out when not lit up.

    I love the look of the bronze case and I agree with the comments about the crown, but I had one more comment, a question, really: why Roman numerals?

    Cheers,

    Jay

  4. #204
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne
    .........

    But would you buy it if it was quartz?

    Eddie
    Any chance of making it without a seconds hand as per PRS-20?

    john
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  5. #205
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    Re: PRS-30

    [quote="alljay"][quote="swanbourne"][quote="stephen sager"]

    Very nice Chris ok Eddie lets roll her out bugger brass Rose Gold sandwich dial one for me 42mm one for the missus 38mm

    Patrick

  6. #206
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    Re: PRS-30

    I'd go for the quartz 8)

  7. #207

    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne
    But would you buy it if it was quartz?

    Eddie
    Hi Eddie

    1) Yes, if its 24mm lugs

    2) Yes, if it has no seconds hands

    3) Yes, if it had a nice cheap "quartz" price.

    Thanks
    deano

  8. #208

    Re: PRS-30

    Hi everyone, nice to see this thread has kept active while I've been away.

    I've had a great stag weekend with 20 great friends and returned in one very bruised and tired piece.

    Thanks Eddie for spending time looking into materials and giving this creation the time of day.

    I realise the crown does need work and I shall look into that, i'll also look into tweaking the second hand, oh and the Precista type need to be altered to Script (Eddie's request) but apart from that I know I cannot please everyone so the dial, hands and case shape will remain as they are.

    To answer Jay:

    Quote Originally Posted by jay
    I had one more comment, a question, really: why Roman numerals?
    Jay
    A couple of reasons, A; I thought Roman's on an Italian style watch made good sense. B; it creates an obvious difference to anything out there currently with similar a case shape. C; I wanted a sandwich dial and Roman Numerals don't need need to be altered (stenciled) to work unlike 6 and 9 with have to be left open.

    Chris

  9. #209
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30

    My own view is that it's the Roman numerals which make it sufficiently different to be worth doing.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  10. #210

    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne
    But would you buy it if it was quartz?
    Loose the seconds hand and yes, particularly if the minute hand moved in quarter or half minute increments.

  11. #211

    Re: PRS-30

    I have to say, I really didn't like the design shown on Eddies original thread, but this current version looks great. My only points have been covered - I like the crown shape, but it is a little small and a re-design to the seconds hand is needed, but it seems that Chris has these items under review, so lets see what he can come up with.

    I'm fine with the Precista logo in script - in fact I really like it.


    Cheers
    David

  12. #212
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by alljay
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen sager

    this is an insanely beautiful watch and if it was 42mm would be my first TF watch.
    But would you buy it if it was quartz?

    Eddie
    Are you thinking ani-digi, Eddie?
    Would I buy it if it was Quartz? Knowing Eddie the price would probably be fair so probably yes....
    Would I buy it if it was analogue/digital ? probably not... somehow these watches don't work for me... the dial gets cluttered an will be a mix of styles

  13. #213

    Re: PRS-30

    I agree with Jeroen, analogue/digital displays do nothing for me. As for the watch being quartz, I wouldn't have an issue with that, my recently aquired PRS-10 is a great, accurate watch. My "must be mechanical" attitude to watches is slowly changing.

    David

  14. #214
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    Re: PRS-30

    Loose the second hand and you have a winner, this watch cries for simplicity. Quartz is perfect, if you use a highly reliable quartz with a long battery life. Without the second hand you don't need high accuracy or a temperature compensated movement; priority should be on reliability and long life.

  15. #215
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker
    To answer Jay:

    Quote Originally Posted by jay
    I had one more comment, a question, really: why Roman numerals?
    Jay
    A couple of reasons, A; I thought Roman's on an Italian style watch made good sense. B; it creates an obvious difference to anything out there currently with similar a case shape. C; I wanted a sandwich dial and Roman Numerals don't need need to be altered (stenciled) to work unlike 6 and 9 with have to be left open.

    Chris
    All very valid points, add to them the fact that Eddie likes it and that is all that needs to be said. Thanks for addressing my question.

    Cheers,

    Jay

  16. #216

    Re: PRS-30

    Dial layout attached for comment on seconds hand.



    Regards Chris.

  17. #217
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30

    I think it does need a second hand. That one is cool.

  18. #218
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    Re: PRS-30

    Nice seconds hand Chris,

    and I might be nitpicking but if this is the dial layout that you used for the rendering it could need some tweaking before production drawing phase.....

    the outer circle of the hour hand sometimes touches the numerals and sometimes not... could be the numerals font or the alignment I guess...

  19. #219

    Re: PRS-30

    Chris,

    I think that dial layout is fine and I like the new second hand, which in my opinion, the watch needs. Good job my good man! Any plans for the revised crown detail?

    Cheers
    David

  20. #220

    Re: PRS-30

    I personally am very interested in this project. I also think the atch would look great in brushed titanium - any thoughts on this?

    David

  21. #221

    Re: PRS-30

    Hi David

    I will be addressing the crown, I had a brief look at it last night but thankfully my misses had other ideas.

    I spoke with Eddie regarding Titanium for another project, he thought that the material he could get would be too soft for a watch case. It seems that the surgical grade stuff Brietling and others use is not readily available.

    Chris

  22. #222

    Re: PRS-30

    Hi Chris,

    I thought Titanium might be cost prohibitive at the very least. I think you're onto a cracking design and one I would be very interested in. Glad to hear you had a pleasant evening last night - has anybody told you that all changes after the wedding??? :(

    Cheers
    David

  23. #223
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker
    Dial layout attached for comment on seconds hand.



    Regards Chris.
    Exactly what I was thinking of :wink: Quartz might be interesting, but ana-digi is a non-starter for this neo-classic design IMO.

  24. #224
    stephen sager
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    Re: PRS-30

    [quoteBut would you buy it if it was quartz?][/quote]

    I guess the price would determine that. my dream watch would be this style in an auto with a display back...

  25. #225
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen sager
    [quoteBut would you buy it if it was quartz?]
    I guess the price would determine that. my dream watch would be this style in an auto with a display back...[/quote]

    For me that would have to be highly decorated then, and that would push the price up even further.

    Cheers,

    Guy :)

  26. #226
    stephen sager
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    Re: PRS-30

    I don't know why a movement would HAVE to be highly decorated. I find the movement itself a beautiful symbol of old world technology. I can understand for 'tool' watches the desire to keep things simpler - but this is not so much a tool watch abut instead 'art' on the wrist.

  27. #227

    Re: PRS-30

    A highly decorated auto movement will be unlikely at Eddie's price range, however movements seen in the Tag Carrera, Oris and many Sinn and Stowa watches are easy on the eye and not highly decorated nor are they too expensive.

    Those wanting to look at something truly exceptional through the case back should probably look elsewhere and expect to pay a premium for it.

    BTW I'm not against a Quartz movement but think this watch probably suits an auto better, the cost of the case materials are likely to be higher than Stainless Steel making the watch cost that bit more, it seems that most people accept to pay more for an auto than a quartz even if the cost of the movements are the same.

  28. #228
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30

    The Seagull "2892" can be made to look beautiful. It's available and not that expensive although certainly more expensive than it was 6 months ago and there's even a waiting list now.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  29. #229
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker
    Dial layout attached for comment on seconds hand.



    Regards Chris.
    I like those hands & dial, my only reservation is that I'd prefer the dot on the second hand to match the shape of the hour/minute hands - although I may change my mind when I see it!
    /vince ..

  30. #230

    Re: PRS-30

    Quartz: loose the seconds hand.

    Auto: Still loose the seconds hand, but make the rotor Timefactors orange! :D

    To me, it doesn't make sense to have a seconds hand and no seconds indices, particularly not on a quartz watch. Other than that, I think it looks really interesting and original.

  31. #231
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceR
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker
    Dial layout attached for comment on seconds hand.



    Regards Chris.
    I like those hands & dial, my only reservation is that I'd prefer the dot on the second hand to match the shape of the hour/minute hands - although I may change my mind when I see it!
    I was thinking the exact same thing. I'd love to see it with a diamont tip on the end of the second hand, like some old Breitlings had. I don't understand why that type of second had still hasn't made a come-back :-(

  32. #232
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    Re: PRS-30

    As a dive watch fanatic, I prefer hands to match their function and to be easily differentiated. But I certainly see the 'same theme' argument and could see something like the seconds below:



    No view back for this one IMO, if it's meant to be in the low to mid-range. That's the way I do it I'm Eddie (which I'm not, though it would be interesting for a day or two and hopefully he feels the same :P ), is a base model in quartz and then a high end model auto with decorated movement and display back if the response is good.

    The PRS-20 LE is the KSW-style Precista for decorated movements:


  33. #233
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalu
    The PRS-20 LE is the KSW-style Precista for decorated movements:

    That is a fantastic looking movement. Is that PVD? How much did it cost and where did you have it done (if you don't mind my asking)?

    Cheers,

    Jay

  34. #234

    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by alljay
    That is a fantastic looking movement. Is that PVD? How much did it cost and where did you have it done (if you don't mind my asking)?

    Cheers,

    Jay
    I believe there were 2 of the 100 run of the PRS-20 LE that featured this PVD movement. Eddie mentioned it very early on during the PRS-20 design phase and a couple of people, Colin included, requested this much more expensive movement be included in their PRS-20s.

  35. #235
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Lee
    Quote Originally Posted by alljay
    That is a fantastic looking movement. Is that PVD? How much did it cost and where did you have it done (if you don't mind my asking)?

    Cheers,

    Jay
    I believe there were 2 of the 100 run of the PRS-20 LE that featured this PVD movement. Eddie mentioned it very early on during the PRS-20 design phase and a couple of people, Colin included, requested this much more expensive movement be included in their PRS-20s.
    It is cool isn´nt it? I have the same movement sitting on a drawer for something to put it in :mrgreen:

  36. #236
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by JCJM
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Lee
    Quote Originally Posted by alljay
    That is a fantastic looking movement. Is that PVD? How much did it cost and where did you have it done (if you don't mind my asking)?

    Cheers,

    Jay
    I believe there were 2 of the 100 run of the PRS-20 LE that featured this PVD movement. Eddie mentioned it very early on during the PRS-20 design phase and a couple of people, Colin included, requested this much more expensive movement be included in their PRS-20s.
    It is cool isn´nt it? I have the same movement sitting on a drawer for something to put it in :mrgreen:

    Send it to me and I'll have my watchmaker put it in my 20.

  37. #237
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas


    How about the standard PRS-20 case with lugs?

    john

    You may think I'm kidding but actually I'm not----I'd even like this one above if it had a dome shape negative-pressure immune Mark XI style "stepped" crystal secured with a threaded steel retaining ring and temperature compensating steel washer from inside the case, a soft iron "Faraday Cage" to protect the movement from excessive magnetism, a congruently styled seconds hand on the center shaft, an aged orange-gold numeral matching the dial lume on black date wheel windowed at 6 o'clock, a Sinn U2 EZM5 style viewable desiccant capsule mounted on the dial at 12:00 o'clock above the triangle and one inside the movement cage, 300 meter WR, a diver style solid screw-down back, a blatant copy of the Rolex Triplelock OysterCrown and it's screwed-in tube, a Fricker made case of the best stainless steel available, the classic Precista script alone replacing the Rolex font and trademark, and the best mechanical movements you can get.

    It may be a dress watch but so was something like a fancy pre-1974 Rolex OysterDate in its day and still----a dress watch with classic overengineered technological guts and character in addition to looks that can take anything encountered. You could call it the Precista "Resolve" as like the warships of Britain's fleets were once named for the higher aspects of human character.

    Why not make something of this project really worth making, and keeping.

  38. #238
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    Re: PRS-30

    ^
    Some of us don't have a grand to spend on a watch. Not that you're not entitled if you do, but it would limit the appeal somewhat. Or maybe Eddie could move into an entirely new market sector.

  39. #239
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Glamdring
    ^
    Some of us don't have a grand to spend on a watch. Not that you're not entitled if you do, but it would limit the appeal somewhat. Or maybe Eddie could move into an entirely new market sector.

    Glamring, I know exactly what you mean on the higher cost something like the above would be. But, you could think of it this way:

    1.)If the price of manufacture of the one above were congruent with the extremely high specifications you're already getting with the new PRS-22(SpeedBird 3), the PRS-14, the PRS-50, and also your own beautiful PRS-12 SpeedBird 1903 Chronograph, and really all of Eddie's incredibly high specification for value Timefactors watches, many of which you own, I would think the one as mentioned above wouldn't be a grand GPB in cost but somewhere less while still allowing Eddie plenty of profit and more so I would hope.

    2.)Consider your own collection consisting of
    a T-F Californian @ 90GPB,
    a PRS-3 BroadArrow Diver @ circa 140GPB,
    a PRS-8 Richmond Spencer @ 245GPB,
    a PRS-12 SpeedBird 1903 @ 395GPB,
    a PRS-17C Quartz Chronograph @ 185GPB,
    a 18Q Quartz 300m Diver @ 140GPB.
    These add up to 1195GPB so what's the difference if somebody else might choose to forgo the variety and decided on something like the high-spec one mentioned above and perhaps a PRS-5----it would end up the same or less in cost I would think.

    Anyway, I for one would like to see something like the high specifcationed watch above made and would hope others felt the same about it. There is a plethora of choice in dress watches from a multitude of sources worldwide. But really nothing like the one as mentioned above.

    The way I see it and think, Eddie is at his uniquely best with high specification for value watches like the theoretical one mentioned might potentially be.

    Just my opinion.

  40. #240
    Grand Master Glamdring's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30

    These add up to 1195GPB so what's the difference if somebody else might choose to forgo the variety and decided on something like the high-spec one mentioned above and perhaps a PRS-5----it would end up the same or less in cost I would think.
    Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't add it all up like that, it hurts! Heavens, £1195; that's a decent flat-screen TV. :shock:
    People will, of course, buy as they choose and good luck to them. I'm sure Eddie will produce an excellent watch.

  41. #241
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    Re: PRS-30

    Actually Glamring, I just noticed that I forgot to add in that neat PRS-5 you have (I like those too) :shock:

  42. #242
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    Re: PRS-30

    I love it; stunning. That acrylic crystal really shows off the dial. The sapphire on the 18Q makes its dial look almost milky by comparison, though I really like that watch too; it seems indestructible, though I won't drive any cars over it just to see!

  43. #243
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    Re: PRS-30

    I always prefer acrylic crystals too and never worry about the scratches, they're worth it. Especially enjoy that one

  44. #244

    Re: PRS-30

    I'm in favour of Rollon's ideas for the 30

  45. #245

    Re: PRS-30

    I like the idea Rollon but it maybe a completely different project altogether as the spec is along way from what I had in mind.

    Chris

  46. #246
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Glamdring
    Some of us don't have a grand to spend on a watch. Not that you're not entitled if you do, but it would limit the appeal somewhat. Or maybe Eddie could move into an entirely new market sector.
    I agree on that; although I can spend that kind of money can be spent on watch every once in a while I'd rather have different watches instead of one.
    What I like in watches and movements are the differences is styles and techniques and the fact that I can change every once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon
    The way I see it and think, Eddie is at his uniquely best with high specification for value watches like the theoretical one mentioned might potentially be.

    Just my opinion.
    Respectfully I only partly agree; IMHO is Eddies strength to have good specification watches made for a realistic prices; the Speedbirds give me the joy of wearing that style of watch with good specifications and good build quality, the DN showed the world that there is such a thing as an original design and great build quality for a decent price.

    If the PRS-30 would be have the spec's you suggest it would move into another price league and I feel that would mean moving away from Timefactors' traditional customers.
    It would feel like a move in the direction of the type customer that goes for "see the spec list of my watch"
    and that is a marketing / brand positioning question that is more for Eddie to answer.
    Next to that I guess that the financial implications of manufacturing such a watch would force Eddie also into a different business model of which I doubt Eddie would be happy with, but then again that's for Eddie to make up his mind about.

    .... just my

  47. #247
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas


    How about the standard PRS-20 case with lugs?

    john

    You may think I'm kidding but actually I'm not----I'd even like this one above if it had a dome shape negative-pressure immune Mark XI style "stepped" crystal secured with a threaded steel retaining ring and temperature compensating steel washer from inside the case, a soft iron "Faraday Cage" to protect the movement from excessive magnetism, a congruently styled seconds hand on the center shaft, an aged orange-gold numeral matching the dial lume on black date wheel windowed at 6 o'clock, a Sinn U2 EZM5 style viewable desiccant capsule mounted on the dial at 12:00 o'clock above the triangle and one inside the movement cage, 300 meter WR, a diver style solid screw-down back, a blatant copy of the Rolex Triplelock OysterCrown and it's screwed-in tube, a Fricker made case of the best stainless steel available, the classic Precista script alone replacing the Rolex font and trademark, and the best mechanical movements you can get.

    It may be a dress watch but so was something like a fancy pre-1974 Rolex OysterDate in its day and still----a dress watch with classic overengineered technological guts and character in addition to looks that can take anything encountered. You could call it the Precista "Resolve" as like the warships of Britain's fleets were once named for the higher aspects of human character.

    Why not make something of this project really worth making, and keeping.

    Chris,
    I fully understand that this was not exactly what you were thinking of, but, with the best of intent, here's the way I see it:

    1.)You use the basic Pannerai "Luminor" style solid lugged cushion type case with a smooth solid bezel for your design. This is the same as Abraxas put up (I believe Rolex made all the early Pannerai watches). If you make it with the high specifications I mentioned above, I feel you would give it the essence and spirit of what made the classic pre-1977 Rolex Oyster Case watches not just fashion plates, but extremely good, rugged, serviceable, adaptable, surviveable, enduring, and accurate timepieces beyond that.

    2.)While I personally prefer the classic look and style of the vintage Rolex dial that Abraxas put up above to your more contemporary design, as a basis for your watch with the specs I mentioned, I see the PRS-30 you're working on emerging from the above just by changing the dial finish, color, font, and layout to what you want; changing the hands to what you want; changing the date wheel and window position to what you want; changing the external shape(not the internal specs) of the crown to what you want; finishing the case with the durable titanium nitride discharge plate in gold color I mentioned to you before (I believe the TiGold company did it in a bronze color also when I saw their work); and putting a reasonably priced brown tone crocodile or alligator strap(or a more economical "grained" version thereof) with a case matching titanium nitride plated stainless steel buckle.

    3.)The reason I see the brass or bronze alloy type case idea you like for your design as problematic is that copper based alloys have a very different(as in higher) temperature expansion ratio than steel and that in itself would genuinely compromise the watch in technical terms even if you could make these alloys hard enough, strong enough, get around the high rate of nickel release, get around the problem of a person's acidic perspiration attacking the alloy's zinc component as Eddie mentioned, and such.

    So why not just put an appropriate and durable gold or bronze color plate on good stainless steel to achieve the cosmetic effect you want without compromising the high technical potential of the design with a case material that is not conducive to maintaining that?

    That's the way I see it anyway and I think it would be a lot better watch to walk away with than one made internally and in its specifications like one you could have bought from a thousand other sources---even Guess or Fossil would have similiar. So if all the trouble is gone through to design and produce a PRS-30, why not make it right and something very, very special--and though Eddie would know far better, I wouldn't think it would be all that much more trouble making it to the specifications I mentioned above than making just another dress/fashion watch.

    At any rate I think it would be worth it.

  48. #248
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeroen
    Quote Originally Posted by Glamdring
    Some of us don't have a grand to spend on a watch. Not that you're not entitled if you do, but it would limit the appeal somewhat. Or maybe Eddie could move into an entirely new market sector.
    I agree on that; although I can spend that kind of money can be spent on watch every once in a while I'd rather have different watches instead of one.
    What I like in watches and movements are the differences is styles and techniques and the fact that I can change every once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon
    The way I see it and think, Eddie is at his uniquely best with high specification for value watches like the theoretical one mentioned might potentially be.

    Just my opinion.
    Respectfully I only partly agree; IMHO is Eddies strength to have good specification watches made for a realistic prices; the Speedbirds give me the joy of wearing that style of watch with good specifications and good build quality, the DN showed the world that there is such a thing as an original design and great build quality for a decent price.

    If the PRS-30 would be have the spec's you suggest it would move into another price league and I feel that would mean moving away from Timefactors' traditional customers.
    It would feel like a move in the direction of the type customer that goes for "see the spec list of my watch"
    and that is a marketing / brand positioning question that is more for Eddie to answer.
    Next to that I guess that the financial implications of manufacturing such a watch would force Eddie also into a different business model of which I doubt Eddie would be happy with, but then again that's for Eddie to make up his mind about.

    .... just my

    Jeroen,
    If you look a bit closer at the specifications I mentioned above as regards a PRS-30, as in the Rolex Abraxas put up, you may find that they are roughly congruent in kind and degree to Eddie's PRS-14 and PRS-50, both of which are very high, beautifully high in fact specification dive/tool watches for the value.

    Go look at the specs on Eddie's soon to arrive PRS-22 SpeedBird 3. It is so highly specificationed in fact that it matches the specs for the 2kGBP class watches it homages---the IWC Mk XII, MkXV, and Mk XVI series pilot's watches---in every real sense. Perhaps you can explain the difference because I can't.

    In other words Jeroen, I really think the specifications I mentioned as what I would personally like to see for the PRS-30 would be roughly on par with those for the PRS-14, PRS-50, and PRS-22.

    Also, you implied that the only purpose for a high specification watch made right was just so somebody could show the specifications off. No, I never do that and I don't think that way. There may be some who do, but so what. It would give Eddie well deserved PR maybe and good because a lot of his watches are impressive.

    What I want is a good watch, one made right, and one that can do anything. I may never need its full potential but its sure nice to know its there and that's what I think of as a good watch. I also don't like superficial lookey-likey watches and the 14, 50, and 22, and also the PRS-5s and 10s among the others already in Eddie's line are anything but that.

    So what's the difference you see in this instance? I don't quite understand your rationale, Rollon

  49. #249
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30



    The watch I posted. Which is the PRS-20 with lugs (as simple as that). With this dial and a new handset ... IMO has a future.

    john
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  50. #250
    Craftsman rickf's Avatar
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    Re: PRS-30

    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas


    The watch I posted. Which is the PRS-20 with lugs (as simple as that). With this dial and a new handset ... IMO has a future.

    john
    If this were sized a little smaller than the PRS-20, I would love it. (no Roman numerals please).

    Rick

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