Insurance valuation: How do I get one for two watches?

[mindforge]

For the first time ever my insurer has asked for a recent valuation for my two Grand Seikos (Snowflake and SBGR053).

How on earth do I go about doing this, especially during a pandemic? If I don't provide, they will pull the cover - no mention of refunding the premium of course.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[spuds]

My own insurers stipulate valuations being done by a member of the National Association of Jewellers, if you use the search facility on their website to contact local members I'd imagine something could be arranged.
(My own valuation included collection and being brought back by the valuer, and all the watches being insured from the moment he signed for receipt of them).

https://www.naj.co.uk/advice/Valuations-Insurance


Having said that and with both watches being current pieces reasonably readily available (and I guess insured for RRP) I'd suggest offering them proof of purchase along with proof of current RRP might suffice....??

[mindforge]

My own insurers stipulate valuations being done by a member of the National Association of Jewellers, if you use the search facility on their website to contact local members I'd imagine something could be arranged.
(My own valuation included collection and being brought back by the valuer, and all the watches being insured from the moment he signed for receipt of them).

https://www.naj.co.uk/advice/Valuations-Insurance


Having said that and with both watches being current pieces reasonably readily available (and I guess insured for RRP) I'd suggest offering them proof of purchase along with proof of current RRP might suffice....??

Thanks, how much did that service cost?!

I bought one in Japan and one off SC so I don't have any particular proof of purchase... I could ask whether they would accept anything like that.

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[deepreddave]

I paid £50 per watch for valuations requested by my insurer from a local ex-Rolex AD. Their stipulation was it needed to be a jeweller who was a member of a recognised body, although they couldn't say which ones!

[Stonewood]

Have you considered using M&S insurance? They don’t ask for valuations or major requirements. They only state that one single claim can be no more than £15k.


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[mindforge]

Have you considered using M&S insurance? They don’t ask for valuations or major requirements. They only state that one single claim can be no more than £15k.


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I've already bought the insurance but yes that could be an easier option! They didn't come up on the comparison site though so might not be priced well for my property.



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[Justin Case]

I've already bought the insurance but yes that could be an easier option! They didn't come up on the comparison site though so might not be priced well for my property.



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Add in the cost of these valuations and I’d be surprised if it wasn’t cheaper and easier just to switch to M&S.

[mindforge]

Add in the cost of these valuations and I’d be surprised if it wasn’t cheaper and easier just to switch to M&S.

Just checked and they're 'unable to complete your quote online' so I assume they are not willing to cover me for buildings and contents.

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[spuds]

Thanks, how much did that service cost?!

I bought one in Japan and one off SC so I don't have any particular proof of purchase... I could ask whether they would accept anything like that.

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It's usually done on a percentage basis but that was ridiculous for the whole collection so I think we agreed £100-£150/watch??

[mindforge]

It's usually done on a percentage basis but that was ridiculous for the whole collection so I think we agreed £100-£150/watch??

Urgh percentage based is absurd.

Given how the insurance industry will punish with increased premiums if you actually make a claim, tempted just to self insure...



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[jukeboxs]

Once you start moving above the £15k bracket, self-insurance (for me) made a lot more sense.

[Toddy]

I used iValuer online for my insurance. Very easy to do and quite cheap.

[mindforge]

I used iValuer online for my insurance. Very easy to do and quite cheap.

Thanks, looks like a good tip

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[gingerpaul]

Does anyone have any recommendations for insurers? I have a relatively expensive watch and, as above, it's difficult to find a reasonable quote for. M&S sound like a good bet other than that though so that's good to know.

[spuds]

Urgh percentage based is absurd.

Given how the insurance industry will punish with increased premiums if you actually make a claim, tempted just to self insure...



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Once you start moving above the £15k bracket, self-insurance (for me) made a lot more sense.

I’m massively open to correction Gents but I a THINK the issue with self-insurance is that say your house is burgled and they steal your watch....
You don’t claim for it but have to inform the police as it’s part of the ‘haul’ so your insurers will find out...
Your insurers then say you were ‘under valued’ or deliberately stated less cover was required than actually was and your entire claim is null and void.

My understanding is that insurers assess the risk as a whole and if you deliberately declare less value/risk than there actually is, your entire policy/cover is effectively worthless.

As I said, I’m massively open to correction but that’s how my own broker (and personal friend of thirty years) explained it to me.

[Onelasttime]

How do they justify letting you pay for insurance and only telling you they want valuations after payment?

Surely this works both ways and you can cancel without penalty because they didn't spell out the key terms before you entered into the contract, unless I'm missing something?

[sundial]

I’m massively open to correction Gents but I a THINK the issue with self-insurance is that say your house is burgled and they steal your watch....
You don’t claim for it but have to inform the police as it’s part of the ‘haul’ so your insurers will find out...
Your insurers then say you were ‘under valued’ or deliberately stated less cover was required than actually was and your entire claim is null and void.

My understanding is that insurers assess the risk as a whole and if you deliberately declare less value/risk than there actually is, your entire policy/cover is effectively worthless.

As I said, I’m massively open to correction but that’s how my own broker (and personal friend of thirty years) explained it to me.

I have declared to my insurers that I have £X worth of watches self-insured in my safe and the underwriters were happy with my declaration ... because I would not claim for loss of same on the 'all risks' section of the house contents policy. My watches are seldom worn outside the house ... my daily wearer is CWC G10 quartz which is not worth insuring. 'Average' is usually applied to all insurance claims if the declared sum insured is less than actual value ... claims payouts are thus reduced ... 'average' is applied to prevent an insured party getting 'something for nothing'. My watches' values do not form part of the personal possessions sum insured so 'averaging' a claim would not apply.

I used to work in the insurance profession so can talk to my insurers using the correct terminology.

Jewellers can obtain official valuations of watches/jewllery via 'Safeguard' ... which requires your watches to be sent to to Safeguard via a jeweller ... but you can also approach Safeguard yourself:

https://safeguardvaluations.com/serv...uations-direct

I used Safeguard for valuations via Goldsmiths a few years ago (before opting for self-insurance) and charges were quite reasonable ... not % based.

Any valuation should be good for 3 years with insurance companies ... so the valuation cost can be spread over 3 years. You'll receive documentary proof of ownership and value ... valuation certificate will show Safeguard's descriptions and photos of the watches.

However, bear in mind that within the 3 years some watches' retail prices might increase and in the event of loss you might be under-insured ... in which case a claim might be 'averaged'. Thus might be prudent to review valuations more frequently than 3 yearly ... but valuations can also depend on an insurance policy's wording.


dunk

[mindforge]

How do they justify letting you pay for insurance and only telling you they want valuations after payment?

Surely this works both ways and you can cancel without penalty because they didn't spell out the key terms before you entered into the contract, unless I'm missing something?

They mentioned valuations may be required. I assumed it would not as I had never been asked before. There is probably a cooling off period but I might be beyond that. I do wonder if they would give a discount on the premium given it cost more to specify the items.

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[spuds]

I have declared to my insurers that I have £X worth of watches self-insured in my safe and the underwriters were happy with my declaration ... because I would not claim for loss of same on the 'all risks' section of the house contents policy. My watches are seldom worn outside the house ... my daily wearer is CWC G10 quartz which is not worth insuring. 'Average' is usually applied to all insurance claims if the declared sum insured is less than actual value ... claims payouts are thus reduced ... 'average' is applied to prevent an insured party getting 'something for nothing'. My watches' values do not form part of the personal possessions sum insured so 'averaging' a claim would not apply.

I used to work in the insurance profession so can talk to my insurers using the correct terminology.

Jewellers can obtain official valuations of watches/jewllery via 'Safeguard' ... which requires your watches to be sent to to Safeguard via a jeweller ... but you can also approach Safeguard yourself:

https://safeguardvaluations.com/serv...uations-direct

I used Safeguard for valuations via Goldsmiths a few years ago (before opting for self-insurance) and charges were quite reasonable ... not % based.

Any valuation should be good for 3 years with insurance companies ... so the valuation cost can be spread over 3 years . You'll receive documentary proof of ownership and value ... certificate will show Safeguard's photos of the watches.


dunk

All the above noted thank you Dunk, I didn’t know you could effectively declare self insurance.....

Do you think I/one could do the same but ask for cover for say, up to a £XYZ/maybe say £40k ‘any one watch being worn?’ (and obviously provide proof of ownership/insurance valuation etc etc etc)

I ask because my insurers have insisted on multiple safes, upgraded locks on windows and external/internal doors, a police monitored alarm etc etc etc and all the time I’m thinking FFS I can only wear one watch outside.....!!

[sundial]

All the above noted thank you Dunk, I didn’t know you could effectively declare self insurance.....

Do you think I/one could do the same but ask for cover for say, up to a £XYZ/maybe say £40k ‘any one watch being worn?’ (and obviously provide proof of ownership/insurance valuation etc etc etc)

I ask because my insurers have insisted on multiple safes, upgraded locks on windows and external/internal doors, a police monitored alarm etc etc etc and all the time I’m thinking FFS I can only wear one watch outside.....!!

I declared 'self insured 4 Rolex watches' without declaring or needing to declare any values. Your requirement for 'actual insurance cover for £XYZ worth of watches' is very different to mine ... and sounds as if could have a total sum insured well in excess of £40K. Whatever your valuation your insurer will likely require documentary proof to show the underwriters ... especially if in excess of £40K. And very understandable that your insurer is insisting on approved security locks, alarms etc. A single valuation certificate from e.g. Safeguard could smooth negotiations with your insurer. You could approach Safeguard (see #17 above) for advice ... they might be able to recommend another specialist insurance broker or insurer for your valuables ... as distinct from other house contents cover. I'm not a former underwriter ... I worked for a firm of marine insurance brokers ... brokers approach underwriters on behalf of their clients. You might be able to find a specialist broker to get you a better deal. Safeguard might be able to recommend a specialist broker.

I'd be very wary of placing the whole of your potential risk with a regular household contents insurer. A broker who understands the high value watches / jewellery insurance sector is your best bet for a fair deal.

T. H. March might be worth approaching https://www.thmarch.co.uk/?gclid=Cj0...UaAv7sEALw_wcB. ... check the FAQs ... but there must be others also worth approaching.

All approaches at your own risk ... high value watches / jewellery insurance is not really my speciality ... I was employed in marine insurance

Unlikely an insurer would underwrite a 'permutation' i.e. any one watch of several ... but maybe possible if all the watches are declared and insured ... but only one worn outside the house at any one time. For 'all risks' declared items insurance, the insurance schedule shows all actual items insured ... insurance premium is based on items declared and valued ... items in which you have an 'insurable interest' .

If a high value watch is not declared on the schedule it is not insured. Best to discuss with a specialist broker who fully understands your insurance needs and how you wear / alternate wearing, your watches. If you considered approaching Safeguard for valuations, as a rule, they would not require to see boxes and papers ... they are usually immaterial ... Safeguard would need to see and examine the actual watches and likely base values on current new replacement cost .. or if vintage, current vintage valuation. But there might be 'grey areas' e.g. vintage Rolex with original papers coud be more valuable than same model without papers.

Goldsmiths sent my watches (minus boxes / papers) to Safeguard ... Safeguard then returned the watches to Goldsmiths with their valuation certificate ... valuation certificate includes Safeguard's photographs. This was by far the most cost effective way of obtaining official valuations. A local watch 'expert' offered valuations based on a % of actual values ... this would have resulted in an extortionate valuation fee. I suggested charging a fairer fixed fee but he declined.

Regarding safes ... they can be expensive if large enough to house a large watch collection. I bought fireproof gun cabinets which are bolted to the wall and floor ... much cheaper than safes. I bought my cabinets direct from BOXX Security in High Wycombe ... made on the premises and no middle man ... and I collected the first cabinet ... they manouvred it into the back of my car ... I'd removed the rear passenger seat to make more room. The cabinets also used for storing cameras and lenses.

[spuds]

Thanks again Dunk, all noted, my valuables over £15k are all itemised and require a valuation every three years.(any single item under £15k is insured in an ‘other valuables’ lump sum).

Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread....

[mindforge]

Thanks again Dunk, all noted, my valuables over £15k are all itemised and require a valuation every three years.(any single item under £15k is insured in an ‘other valuables’ lump sum).

Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread....

No problem, all interesting stuff. I'm going to check with the insurer that they will accept I valuer then go for that.

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[mindforge]

I valuer refused to do the valuation as apparently there is a lot of fraud around high value watches. Sigh. Back to the drawing board.

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[wuyangkid]

Is it not possible to just use the receipt from the place of purchase as a valuation? What happens if the valuation from a jeweller is lower than the amount than the replacement cost?

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[mindforge]

Is it not possible to just use the receipt from the place of purchase as a valuation? What happens if the valuation from a jeweller is lower than the amount than the replacement cost?

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They've asked for recent valuation certificates, which not receipts. Well then j suppose you have to pay the difference! Depends on whether it is insured on a replacement like for like basis or not. I'd be happy with the valuation amount in cash even if lower but am unlikely to claim anyway because of the punitive effect on premiums.

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[sundial]

They've asked for recent valuation certificates, which not receipts. Well then j suppose you have to pay the difference! Depends on whether it is insured on a replacement like for like basis or not. I'd be happy with the valuation amount in cash even if lower but am unlikely to claim anyway because of the punitive effect on premiums.

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Consider sending the watches to Safeguard for valuation ... check their website ... https://safeguardvaluations.com. Watch valuations are their speciality ... Use RMSD with extra transit insurance via https://www.secursus.com/?gclid=CjwK...BoCYFkQAvD_BwE

dunk