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Thread: Rolex trying to take "Milsub" trademark from Kiger

  1. #1
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Rolex trying to take "Milsub" trademark from Kiger

    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  2. #2
    Master
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    An interesting article thanks. Are you going to get in touch and offer your experience?

  3. #3
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Could Rolex win?
    They have never called their watch a milsub, produced a watch called a milsub, they have never owned the trademark, it’s a term penned and used by collectors for their products, that is the only connection.
    The micro brand have trademarked name and the watch does not impede on any design trademarks as far as I can tell.

    I think Rolex might be on a sticky wicket. I presume Rolex will make it so expensive to protect the name wrapping the smaller company up in law suits they will obtain it by default which is poor show and unfair.

  4. #4
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Such bullying. Actually turns my stomach a bit tbh.

  5. #5
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Such bullying. Actually turns my stomach a bit tbh.
    I agree, its the big boys bullying the smaller makers. Its not right and not fair

  6. #6
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    Could Rolex win?
    They have never called their watch a milsub, produced a watch called a milsub, they have never owned the trademark, it’s a term penned and used by collectors for their products, that is the only connection.
    The micro brand have trademarked name and the watch does not impede on any design trademarks as far as I can tell.

    I think Rolex might be on a sticky wicket. I presume Rolex will make it so expensive to protect the name wrapping the smaller company up in law suits they will obtain it by default which is poor show and unfair.
    Ask Eddie about it...
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  7. #7
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    I seem to remember that Rolex have played ''fast and loose'' with facts before.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  8. #8
    Master
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    A very interesting article. I have always assumed "Milsub" to be a contraction of "military" & "Submariner" but that doesn't fly on the basis of the article. This will be an interesting case.

  9. #9
    Master
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    Yet another reason to loathe Rolex and their awful practices.

  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    A less than charitable charity :(

    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Yet another reason to loathe Rolex and their awful practices.

  11. #11
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    I would have thought it would have been easier to just pay the guy off for the trademark rather than divert the money to lawyers for a court case that hasn't got a 100% probability of success. Maybe that is their tactic...initiate proceedings then make him an offer?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Yet another reason to loathe Rolex and their awful practices.
    They do make very nice watches though...everyone wants one.

  12. #12
    Grand Master
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    [QUOTE=Christian;5678152]I would have thought it would have been easier to just pay the guy off for the trademark rather than divert the money to lawyers for a court case that hasn't got a 100% probability of success. Maybe that is their tactic...initiate proceedings then make him an offer?

    Could well be the tactic, intimidate with their monster lawyers then make him an offer he can't refuse. Classic gangster/ bully.

  13. #13
    I personally have never been a fan of nicknames for watches or people trying to associate some kind of "relationship" to what is a faceless company that are just after your money but in all the years all I ever see is the name associated with Rolex. The other issue I see is the micro brand have watches that seem to be pretty much "inspired" by Rolex. I assume that these companies will do all possible to protect their brand and all that is associated with it. I dont really go with the "Rolex bad" Theme either especially considering the gushing love in Rolex have had on the forum for years now, you only need look at the "Rolex price rise" "Rolex in the window" "I am so happy, I have been 2 years on a waiting list and a shop has been kind enough to take 6 grand off me"

    The customer can vote with their feet there are plenty of other brands out there, did Panerai not do something similar with their military trademark?

  14. #14
    Master badger1's Avatar
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    I reckon Kiger will sell a few more watches on the back of this.

  15. #15
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post

    The customer can vote with their feet there are plenty of other brands out there, did Panerai not do something similar with their military trademark?
    I could be argued what Panerai did was worse, they Trademarked the Italian equivalent of Royal Navy - Marine Militare (for watches only). They then allowed the Marine Militare to use the name.

  16. #16
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Far easier to be nice to Mr Kiger and offer to buy his company for a healthy 'over market' sum...and not attract the negative attention...also probably cheaper than the bill for a battle....

  17. #17
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Far easier to be nice to Mr Kiger and offer to buy his company for a healthy 'over market' sum...and not attract the negative attention...also probably cheaper than the bill for a battle....
    True, but this also sends a message to other, potential, Mr Kigers.

  18. #18
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Interesting.

    If I were Kiger I would offer them the brand on the condition I could continue to use it for X years.

    Avoids a lot of expensive work.

  19. #19
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Interesting.

    If I were Kiger I would offer them the brand on the condition I could continue to use it for X years.

    Avoids a lot of expensive work.
    They'd say no. Cease and desist.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  20. #20
    Could be a nice ticket to an early retirement for Mr Kiger if they can sell it rather than get steamrollered in court.

  21. #21
    Master KavKav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Yet another reason to loathe Rolex and their awful practices.
    Very fair comment Julian!

  22. #22
    Nice looking watches - shame Rolex is behaving like a d**k.

  23. #23
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    I might be tempted to buy a Kiger to support him.
    Milsub was never Rolex's name, they have no argument to support the fact that it may be.
    It was alaways a colloquial portmanteau word (regardless of which derivation you believe).
    Personally I think it is definitely Military Submariner, everything else only ever became a Milsub when Rolex Milsubs got so valuable, and people wanted to get more value smeared across onto their other watches, like SM300s.
    But it was never Rolex's term, and it is perfectly normal to be able to grab a word for your own trademeark if it is not in use.
    I hope Rolex lose
    D

  24. #24
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    I would have thought it would have been easier to just pay the guy off for the trademark rather than divert the money to lawyers for a court case that hasn't got a 100% probability of success. Maybe that is their tactic...initiate proceedings then make him an offer?

    - - - Updated - - -



    They do make very nice watches though...everyone wants one.
    I don't. And I've just found yet another reason not to!
    Best Regards - Peter

    I hate being bipolar, its brilliant.

  25. #25
    Best of luck to Kiger. One would hope the burden of proof lay with Rolex, so they would have to throw all their own money at the fight and the little guy simply sits back and lets it all wash over him but that probably isn’t the case. On the topic of buying one, that doesn’t seem at all simple!

  26. #26
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    They'd say no. Cease and desist.
    I can imagine you're right, SJ.

    In that case, I'd be tempted to ask for a decent sum rather than let it go through years of litigation.

  27. #27
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    The standard modus operandi of the big business bully is to raise enough of a case to justify the court issuing an order to stop using the trademark.
    This has a much lower burden of "proof" than going all out to prove the mark is Rolex's by right.
    With enough lawyers thrown at it, it may come to pass.
    And then they just sit on it until he is suffocated and gives up.

  28. #28
    Master
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    Interesting article Eddie thanks for posting. Suprised to see the Rolex bezel became jammed with silt/ sand.

    Steve

  29. #29
    I am a Rolex fan and hope Rolex lose this super nonsense sized case. Do they think a customer will get confused and buy a Kiger rather than an intended Rolex (insert whatever model name). In fact I’d love to buy a Kiger and accidentally send my milsub to Rolex and request a service with a purist level eye. I wouldn’t want to lose the originality.

    What next? Rolex making claim on names Batman, Kermit and Hulk etc.

  30. #30
    Rolex, Omega, Panerai protecting what they perceive to be what is associated with their brand name. I wonder how many of those brands will appear on the Friday thread?

    The history of the name and its use in the article however was very interesting.

  31. #31
    Craftsman
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    Interested me enough to look up the brand, Kiger not the other one, seems also Renault make a Kiger complicated the search.

  32. #32
    Grand Master
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    I can see both sides.

    Rolex never sold a Milsub.
    Someone else trademarked the name.

    That said, when someone says Milsub, my mind doesn't think of anything else bar Rolex.

    Plus, the Kiger is an absolute knock-off Submariner and its whacked a word informally associated with Rolex on the dial, so I can see why theyre p*ssed.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    I can see both sides.

    Rolex never sold a Milsub.
    Someone else trademarked the name.

    That said, when someone says Milsub, my mind doesn't think of anything else bar Rolex.

    Plus, the Kiger is an absolute knock-off Submariner and its whacked a word informally associated with Rolex on the dial, so I can see why theyre p*ssed.
    If it is Rolex on the other side, some here will root for the knock off guy:-)
    Usual drivel from expected sources.

  34. #34
    Grand Master
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    Fair, fair.

  35. #35
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    If it is Rolex on the other side, some here will root for the knock off guy:-)
    Usual drivel from expected sources.
    Perhaps Rolex should put some of their resources into shutting down places like this

    Best Regards - Peter

    I hate being bipolar, its brilliant.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    Perhaps Rolex should put some of their resources into shutting down places like this

    Or Breitling, Omega or Cartier for that matter. Why are Rolex being singled out?

  37. #37
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Or Breitling, Omega or Cartier for that matter. Why are Rolex being singled out?
    Maybe because of the title of the thread?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  38. #38
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Or Breitling, Omega or Cartier for that matter. Why are Rolex being singled out?
    They were the ones being discussed in the OP and subsequently, but of course, all manufacturers should be addressing the open abuse of their product and intellectual property names. I'd rather Rolex, (and others), spend money doing that than spend money trying to bully smaller companies over a name Rolex, (and others), don't actually own.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I hate being bipolar, its brilliant.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    They were the ones being discussed in the OP and subsequently, but of course, all manufacturers should be addressing the open abuse of their product and intellectual property names. I'd rather Rolex, (and others), spend money doing that than spend money trying to bully smaller companies over a name Rolex, (and others), don't actually own.
    My comment wasnt directed at you please dont think that, it was a general observation. Of course you are right they should be challenging this type of behaviour however, I do see where these brands see something that specifically is identified with their brand and wish to protect it (As daft to us humble customers it may seem)

  40. #40
    Master aldfort's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    I can see both sides.

    Rolex never sold a Milsub.
    Someone else trademarked the name.

    That said, when someone says Milsub, my mind doesn't think of anything else bar Rolex.

    Plus, the Kiger is an absolute knock-off Submariner and its whacked a word informally associated with Rolex on the dial, so I can see why theyre p*ssed.
    I'd love to see Omega and Panerai wade into the contest.

    I wonder if Rolex Montres SA sanctioned this little episode or have Rolex USA overstepped?

  41. #41
    Craftsman
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    Perhaps Panerai should start proceedings against thousands of women demanding that they stop calling themselves Pam. Ludicrous state of affairs but so it was with Eddie and omega!

  42. #42
    Master
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    I don’t know why a lot of people on here have it in for Rolex right or wrong they are just doing what any large rich company would do

  43. #43
    Craftsman M1011's Avatar
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    No winners here. I'd agree with the summary from Verv.

    Essentially you have Rolex looking like a bully over a term they've never officially used. But let's be totally honest, Kiger produced a watch that looks very like a Submariner, with a word most people in the watch sphere associate with Rolex printed on the dial, precisely to generate sales off the back of the Rolex image. Let's not pretend it was coincidental. There's an element of prodding-the-sleeping-giant here isn't there?

  44. #44
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Another nail in Rolex's coffin for me.

    M

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  45. #45
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    No winners here. I'd agree with the summary from Verv.

    Essentially you have Rolex looking like a bully over a term they've never officially used. But let's be totally honest, Kiger produced a watch that looks very like a Submariner, with a word most people in the watch sphere associate with Rolex printed on the dial, precisely to generate sales off the back of the Rolex image. Let's not pretend it was coincidental. There's an element of prodding-the-sleeping-giant here isn't there?
    Interesting. So because the Kiger looks like a submariner, Rolex is entitled to the name milsub. Is that what you are saying?
    Next I suppose you will want Eddie to surrender the name “Everest”?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    They do make very nice watches though...everyone wants one.
    Not me. Personally I think they are boring but it's just one man's opinion.

    Sent from my SM-N976B using TZ-UK mobile app

  47. #47
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Some people on this thread would do well to read up on the history of our host and a certain large corporate.

  48. #48
    Master
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    Interesting read. I hope Rolex doesn't succeed.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Interesting. So because the Kiger looks like a submariner, Rolex is entitled to the name milsub. Is that what you are saying?
    Next I suppose you will want Eddie to surrender the name “Everest”?

    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  50. #50
    Journeyman Caminos's Avatar
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    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing


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