The Great Reset

[noTAGlove]

Re-imagining life, and changes to our lives in a post COVID world.

My company (employs tens of 1000s) has just changed their policy to all office staff will be in the office for max 60% of their time. In some areas it will be less than this. I can probably get this down to 2 days per week. It was 100% pre-COVID.

So, if I only have to be in the office 2-3 days a week, say Mon/Tues and may be Wed, it allows me and my family to now get outta Dodge (London area) if we want to.

I can live up to 200 miles away, drive to the office early doors Monday, 1-2 nights in a Travelodge, and back for a late dinner Tues/Wed night. It realistically opens up us moving to Dorset, Somerset or even Devon, from our current house in Kingston.

I am just probably one of millions who will have more freedom going forward around location. Anyone else pondering what to do with their new found freedoms?

I think this Great Reset will be massive.

[benshep]

Not a fan of this term “great reset”. Sure there will be positive changes to attitudes to working practices etc, but the term itself seems to be getting used (or co-opted) in a way that is loaded with political and ideological motives e.g. around social justice movements and extreme movements like extinction rebellion and anti-capitalist, often undemocratic movements.

Just see the propaganda published by the unelected World Economic Forum.

I think we would be better off avoiding the term.


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[flame]

Hi

My company's existing policy for all office staff (which also employs tens of 1000s) was be in the office for max 60% of their time.

Since Covid they have now permanently closed our London based office and with no capacity to relocate us into any other premises in the region , so it appears we may well be moving to 100% of our time WFH.

I'm all in favour of moving away from the south east corner ( Essex ) , however whilst somewhere towards the south west looks good on paper , the impact and work opportunities for our ( 21 & 19yr ) sons could well be more of a problem.

Best Neil

[noTAGlove]

Not a fan of this term “great reset”.

Whatever you want to call it. Change is happening, big time.

[JonRA]

I'm not sure that I would like to drive quite that far every week - probably 120-150 max each way for me. But although I am retired now, so not planning on that sort of change, if I was still working I would definitely consider that sort of change.

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[Neil.C]

I'll be jumping on a 'plane.

[wileeeeeey]

I work for a large FTSE 100 company and we have been told "the days of Monday-Friday in the office 100% of the time are gone" but we don't have guidance beyond that yet. My wife's employer is just as large but no guidance has been given yet.

I wouldn't really want to plan my week around travel lodge stays but it does open us up to maybe looking a bit further from the station and maybe eventually out towards Cambridge or Bury instead of London in 5 or 10 years.

[Devonian]

Well where I live (North Devon) has seen an incredible surge in house sales with a lot of people from away buying. We deal with many of the local estate agents so are seeing this first hand. A lot are still going through as the whole process is taking far longer but the market is very buoyant which still surprises me.

I do wonder though how sustainable this is? After all eventually for people to keep buying down here, people will need to be selling from where they live, so will house prices collapse long term in the south east? I’m wondering if this is more of a short term thing and in a year everything returns to normal. That said I see the appeal of why people want to do it.

[unclealec]

Re-imagining life, and changes to our lives in a post COVID world.

It realistically opens up us moving to Dorset, Somerset or even Devon, from our current house in Kingston.

Sell the Kingston property, relocate to north Manchester, and have enough left over to buy a Rolex diver.

[Wolfie]

No move by my firm, although I will probably end up doing what suits me regardless….

I suspect that balanced working is here to stay…. I can’t say the project I’ve been working on has been delayed significantly or even at all…

The overhead of housing a load of colleagues together is mammoth (especially in central London)…. I did some broad research into how to manage these spaces more effectively and people would pay for it…

[flame]

Sell the Kingston property, relocate to north Manchester, and have enough left over to buy a Rolex diver.

BTW - I'd also consider relocating from Essex to Harrogate area.

Best Neil

[noTAGlove]

I'll be jumping on a 'plane.

Can’t for tax reasons. I would have to agree local terms in the foreign country.

[noTAGlove]

Sell the Kingston property, relocate to north Manchester, and have enough left over to buy a Rolex diver.

I know it is a bit of humour, but I am originally from Liverpool, and the cooler cloudier summer weather genuinely puts me off moving back oop nerth, even though I know the lifestyle would be great.

I have got used to the more pleasant summers in the south and south east. You would not think that the difference would be that great with only a couple of hundred miles between us, but it is a deal breaker for me.

[blackal]

It might not apply to everyone, but there will be many who jump to working remotely from a more rural location.

All fine and dandy until you have to look for a new job, and find that some of your prospects aren't so accommodating.

On certain levels, I think some people while enjoying working from home - will also find that their employers might be able to switch to eastern Europeans, also working from home - but for less money.

A lot of positions have so far been immune to 'globalisation' - but might find out that those days are numbered.

[Brighty]

I know it is a bit of humour, but I am originally from Liverpool, and the cooler cloudier summer weather genuinely puts me off moving back oop nerth, even though I know the lifestyle would be great.

I have got used to the more pleasant summers in the south and south east. You would not think that the difference would be that great with only a couple of hundred miles between us, but it is a deal breaker for me.

But we get longer evenings in the summer opp north, 30mins longer to sit in the garden/beer garden

[noTAGlove]

All fine and dandy until you have to look for a new job, and find that some of your prospects aren't so accommodating.

If the industry you work in, is all going the same way with respect to WFH, then there isn’t that much risk.

[Corporalsparrow]

May I offer a word of caution? A policy to reduce office time can just as quickly be changed to increase it.

Many companies have worked effectively with staff at home, but not all. One I know had an amazing year, but only because they didn't spend a penny of travel and client entertainment.

And the one thing I know about the future is that it's nearly always different to the predictions.

Maybe don't go too far.

[Jdh1]

My view is that this will not be as big a reset as some people think. The working from home thing works fine once a culture and relationships have become established but will be less effective long term when workforce turnover means those things gradually erode. From a company perspective, where is the benefit when many already have facilities they are locked into for years? And then there's the ongoing problem that working from home isn't a great option for many where living accomodation just doesn't lend itself. If you're in management or a profession shuffling paper or pixels and established in your career and life, it's probably an attractive option. Most others are probably better served by getting into the workplace, and I think that will become readily apparent.

[Kidsteruk]

I'm with a big FTSE business too (wondering if we share the same Scottish CEO wileeeeeey?), who has also said similar.

He's been, thankfully, very risk adverse around office working in the London Global and our UK head office too - I don't see this changing any time soon.

I'm in a Global facing team, so spend most days on calls with the US or Asia; many in my immediate team have family homes across Europe and have decamped there for most of the last year without any impact to what we do.

I can't see it changing much the next 9 months. After that, I'd expect no more than 1, possibly 2, office days a week, but only if essential for face to face.

My partner and I have already jokingly talked about moving North and buying a big house for less than our Hertfordshire pad.

The big hit is on the London economy I think, food and bars for the office trade, coffee shops and the like. See it being a bigger impact for those just starting their careers, or moving companies where they are just not seen or known. Building relationships over Skype is not easy

[Estoril-5]

My company had an 80% desk efficiency, so at anyone time 20% of the workforce would not have a desk, also there were no fixed desks, all hot desks.

now they have announced they dont expect everyone to be back in full time when this pandemic disappears, thats all they have said.

I am looking to some face time with colleagues, but once a fortnight will do me just fine.

[Omegamanic]

My view is that this will not be as big a reset as some people think. The working from home thing works fine once a culture and relationships have become established but will be less effective long term when workforce turnover means those things gradually erode. From a company perspective, where is the benefit when many already have facilities they are locked into for years? And then there's the ongoing problem that working from home isn't a great option for many where living accomodation just doesn't lend itself. If you're in management or a profession shuffling paper or pixels and established in your career and life, it's probably an attractive option. Most others are probably better served by getting into the workplace, and I think that will become readily apparent.

I have seen this first hand during two enforced lockdowns. How well a couple with one or two kids work from home, together is a real problem. It’s all fine if you have a nice fully equipped home office, but for others it’s not realistic. Also, how do you keep a proper eye on new starters, or mentor them (as) effectively.

We’ve had some shocking examples within some of my clients, and it’s quite clear that some roles just fo not suit working from home. What might have been a quick question over a desk before sending an email can easily result in a day of work to rectify someone’s independent actions.

No doubt we will see an increase in WFM, but realistically I think we will continue to see a number of businesses maintain a presence, and I see some of them thriving and some others failing comprehensively.

[Eddiex]

Re-imagining life, and changes to our lives in a post COVID world.

I can live up to 200 miles away, drive to the office early doors Monday, 1-2 nights in a Travelodge, and back for a late dinner Tues/Wed night. It realistically opens up us moving to Dorset, Somerset or even Devon, from our current house in Kingston.

I know someone who lives in south Devon and has a job in Surrey. He leaves home very early on Monday morning and rents a room in a house for Mon, Tues, Weds night. On Thursday he returns home to Devon for a long weekend. Has done this for years and has always found it works for him. Lovely house in Devon for a fraction of the price of what it would cost in Surrey.

I'm not so sure about the impact on his family life and he does have to contend with the dreaded A303 if he doesn't get his timings right!

[andy tims]

My firm have surveyed staff a couple of time since March last year & expect most office based staff to want to work 2 to 3 days per week in the office.

We are in fact moving our London office from Kings Cross to Fenchurch Street in the middle of the year & are taking less space, despite expecting organic growth of our business to continue.

As for me, I won't be relocating to a different part of the country, but we are looking to move in the not too distant future & I'm not so bothered about being close to a main line train station. I'm currently 2 mins walk / 5 mins cycle ride from Haslemere train station in Surrey & I used to commute typically 4 days a week (3.5 hours per day on average in total).

We liked the idea of moving from Surrey to the South West in theory, but I doubt it will happen. I'm not sure I want to be old & hundreds of miles from our kids or our existing network of friends. My wife feels more strongly about this than I do. We're mid 50's now and the kids have moved out. The elder two live close & the youngest is at Uni, so likely to return before moving out. We hope our next move will be our last.

[Estoril-5]

I know someone who lives in south Devon and has a job in Surrey. He leaves home very early on Monday morning and rents a room in a house for Mon, Tues, Weds night. On Thursday he returns home to Devon for a long weekend. Has done this for years and has always found it works for him. Lovely house in Devon for a fraction of the price of what it would cost in Surrey.

I'm not so sure about the impact on his family life and he does have to contend with the dreaded A303 if he doesn't get his timings right!

I knew someone who worked near Gatwick and used to live in Blackpool, he worked something ridiculous like 7am to 7pm mon to weds and then finish early on a thurs and drive back to blackpool. The crazy thing was he would start his journey at 2am on monday morning to get to gatwick from blackpool. Nuts!

[cbh]

I know someone who lives in south Devon and has a job in Surrey. He leaves home very early on Monday morning and rents a room in a house for Mon, Tues, Weds night. On Thursday he returns home to Devon for a long weekend. Has done this for years and has always found it works for him. Lovely house in Devon for a fraction of the price of what it would cost in Surrey.

I'm not so sure about the impact on his family life and he does have to contend with the dreaded A303 if he doesn't get his timings right!

Not sure i'd fancy that myself, over 40% time away from home!

[unclealec]

There was a BBC news item up here about a guy who lived in Bodmin and worked at the Guinness Brewery on Princess Parkway in inner Manchester. That's a 330-mile-each-way commute.
No wonder Bodmin means barking mad in Cornwall!

[Kingstepper]

How does this work for the company’s offices? Presumably they won’t want to pay to keep offices only 40% occupied, so will they be downsized and sold off?

[dougair]

May I offer a word of caution? A policy to reduce office time can just as quickly be changed to increase it.

Many companies have worked effectively with staff at home, but not all. One I know had an amazing year, but only because they didn't spend a penny of travel and client entertainment.

And the one thing I know about the future is that it's nearly always different to the predictions.

Maybe don't go too far.

You can’t work more than 100% of the time though so for many they’d just be back where they were. Not ideal if you’ve moved though.

[noTAGlove]

How does this work for the company’s offices? Presumably they won’t want to pay to keep offices only 40% occupied, so will they be downsized and sold off?

Downsizing to smaller premises in the case of satellite offices for the company I work for.

May be not a great time to be fully vested in commercial real estate.

[Mj2k]

I’ve only ever done 3 days in the London office in my present company, working from home the remaining 2. They didn’t really like it, and had a very backwards view, this has clearly all changed even with some of the more elderly consultants.

No idea what the future holds as like many, it hasn’t been communicated; however a central London 2,500 & 5 floor office is clearly not needed.

I toy with the idea of moving west again, but the job market decreases in size as I do.

I have also done the 2 nights staying over for a year & that was always rubbish once the novelty wore off. Sunday nights were written off as early morning on Monday, shattered Weds night after the drive home after a full days work.

We had a very generous overnight allowance, the office was in the middle of nowhere & could stay in rather lovely mansion houses, bespoke gastro pub type places with amazing food. However as soon as the summer heatwave hit, was a travel lodge as there was air con! (And the beds are very comfy)

The downside of eating out twice a week with work & then the usual 2 nights out with the wife meant I gained significant amounts of weight from all the food & drink.

Personally with all the change, I would be happy to never set foot on the platform at 6.30am ever again; I prefer to not have 3hrs of my day spent travelling, but equally prefer to not spend it working which appears to have happened instead.


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[Saint-Just]

May I offer a word of caution? A policy to reduce office time can just as quickly be changed to increase it.

Many companies have worked effectively with staff at home, but not all. One I know had an amazing year, but only because they didn't spend a penny of travel and client entertainment.

And the one thing I know about the future is that it's nearly always different to the predictions.

Maybe don't go too far.

How does this work for the company’s offices? Presumably they won’t want to pay to keep offices only 40% occupied, so will they be downsized and sold off?

This is why the reversal of the policy is not as likely as implied: The savings for companies who go this way will be very, very significant. They may keep 20 to 30% of the desks, a few smaller meeting rooms and a conference room. How the landlords will absorb the reduced income I have no idea, other maybe than offering smaller spaces at a reduced rate for smaller companies (reduced rates because those companies who could afford to pay London rates are already in London). But reversing this policy would mean a major investment a few months/years down the line.

My wife's multi national employer has already reduced its offices near King's Cross by half. It may reduce them further by moving away from KC

[Mr.D]

I’ve already decamped out of London.

Spent most of last year in front of a workstation at home .

Only ventured out for film shoots which can be anywhere anyway and client meetings in Soho where half the people were attending remotely anyway as they live in LA.

Figured what the hell , I can get back to central London within 6hours , crash with mates if required overnight , longer stints I’ll check into an air b&b or rent.

Loved London but there are other things in life .

I reckon all big cities will see an exodus . I’m planning to run by the beach every morning and do some sailing and kite surfing .

[mmgg1988]

It is an interesting question.

I can do my job in essentially any medium or large urban area but whilst some work can be done at home, it would be max of 40% realistically and I would need to live say within 30 miles of work.

There is essentially no pay premium for said work in London over anywhere else. I enjoy living here and have no desire to specifically live anywhere else. However, I could do less work/have a better house/car whatever anywhere else.

Therefore during my next career move, I was considering moving out of London (jobs in London are still harder to get than those elsewhere despite the above!) and buying a nicer property with no extra mortgage/equity and enjoying the above benefits.

However, if there is a general exodus, the property price differential/cost of living difference may well fall and so I would get less of the benefit and end up moving somewhere I like less!

Choices, choices...

[RJM25R]

I wonder how many of these businesses will realise if they are hugely/moderately over resourced and seek to trim their staff levels....

A lot of jobs might only need 60% of the time at the office...

[RobDad]

I left London for North Norfolk just over 5 years ago with the family - wife and I were late 40’s at the time, 2 teenage sons - we’d lived in SW London for our whole life and we were ready for a move - I’d grown really sick and tired of commuting, the whole urban living thing and luckily my wife felt the same. We bought a house three times the size with a large garden, and we’ve loved it, best decision I ever made. But you have to really want to do it - there’s no Uber up here, no deliveroo, Waitrose is 28 miles away and won’t deliver, the public transport is rubbish, no trains, you need a car to get anywhere. And when it snows, my gentle 12 mile drive to the office through country lanes is totally impassable. I don’t mean you need a 4x4, I mean don’t bother! We’re lucky as our house is on proper drainage, gas and electricity but most of the rural villages need cess-pits and oil heating. On the plus side, my home office is the same size as the ground floor of our old house, internet and mobile (4G not sure if we’ll ever get 5G)! are excellent, I have a garage and a large drive so electric car is an option (mind you forget about charging points locally) and the total lack of decent shops is a non- issue thanks to Amazon etc. Loads of parking everywhere, 20 mins to the beach, local flea pit cinema. But if you want to live in a diverse area with access to amazing restaurants, nightlife and high culture on your doorstep, forget it!
A lot of my mates bang on about how much they love living in a vibrant city like London - and that’s fine, I felt the same in my 20’s and early 30’s - but I think a lot will struggle without the amenities that they take for granted. I do think things will change but I’m not sure most will actually enjoy it.
I do feel a bit jammy that we made the move when we did tbh, not sure how we’d have managed in our old house, and I really feel for those living in a small flat without a garden in a city during the pandemic, my idea of hell

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[Chinese_Alan]

I’m an internal auditor, started my role in August 2019 after leaving a Big Four practice. 6 months later (March 2020) after a standard week of working away I said bye to my colleagues on a Friday in London and haven’t seen them since.

We used to spend 1/2 weeks a month working away. That was canned and since then we have found ways of working around the current limitations and have performed the same roles as before perfectly fine.

Really makes you wonder what the future holds for offices. I used to really enjoy going to the office 5 days a week in a city centre whilst in practice. I really don’t fancy that now.

I walk before work every day, I’m fitter and happier than I’ve ever been before. Nothing to dislike.

[ryanb741]

You'd be IMHO mental to leave Kingston. What area of the UK is nicer? None. Rivers, 2 amazing parks, great shopping and dining. Unless you are moving to the Maldives I'd stay put

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[Jdh1]

Whoever is responsible for ploughing on with HS2 needs to read this!

[ryanb741]

Also local residents in these towns seeing an influx of people moving in will be up in arms when their taxes go through the roof to pay for the amenities these millennials will demand in Whitstable or whatever.

I don't think demand for living in London will change that much. There were reasons people chose to live there and not commute and you won't find that elsewhere

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[TaketheCannoli]

In the rain 🌧

But we get longer evenings in the summer opp north, 30mins longer to sit in the garden/beer garden

[RobDad]

You'd be IMHO mental to leave Kingston. What area of the UK is nicer? None. Rivers, 2 amazing parks, great shopping and dining. Unless you are moving to the Maldives I'd stay put

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Sorry to say but that’s where I moved from - and it kind of illustrates my point. Great shopping? Prefer to do it online away from the crowds. And great parks? They’re ok if you want to share them with thousands of people, but it’s all surrounded by concrete. I found the whole area much too busy, we moved there in the mid 90’s and it had hugely gone downhill by the time we left - in fact as it became noisier and busier the house prices soared and soared. That must be because most people felt the same as you Ryan, which is fine - and its why I don’t think rural living is for everyone. The Maldives, seriously? Are you The Mayor of Kingston?!? :)


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[ryanb741]

Sorry to say but that’s where I moved from - and it kind of illustrates my point. Great shopping? Prefer to do it online away from the crowds. And great parks? They’re ok if you want to share them with thousands of people, but it’s all surrounded by concrete. I found the whole area much too busy, we moved there in the mid 90’s and it had hugely gone downhill by the time we left - in fact as it became noisier and busier the house prices soared and soared. That must be because most people felt the same as you Ryan, which is fine - and its why I don’t think rural living is for everyone. The Maldives, seriously? Are you The Mayor of Kingston?!? :)


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Yeah that's a fair point. People who love the London life would hate living in Sheffield and vice versa. That's the conundrum- people think they can get the London lifestyle and live by the sea in Devon and then throw their toys out the pram when they can't get avocado on toast at Beanberry, where's the Taiwanese Bubble Tea restaurant and I simply cannot find a Balenciaga boutique anywhere in Brixham. And the locals won't swallow an increase in council tax to pay for the required updating to bring these areas up to date, nor would many locals welcome supposed 'gentrification' that actually ruins the character. I reckon not much will happen other than London will probably become a bit more Chinese over the next years.

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[Estoril-5]

Haven't done the morning commute for a while now, and I don't miss it, I can start work anytime before 9.00, and used to start around 7, so meant leaving the house at 6.10 and waking up around 5.30.

The later I left it the longer I'd spend on the road due to traffic.

Today I fancied a lie in, so I switched off my alarm at 6.45 and slept in til 8.30. wouldn't have been able to do that if I was due in the office.

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[dougair]

I left London for North Norfolk just over 5 years ago with the family - wife and I were late 40’s at the time, 2 teenage sons - we’d lived in SW London for our whole life and we were ready for a move - I’d grown really sick and tired of commuting, the whole urban living thing and luckily my wife felt the same. We bought a house three times the size with a large garden, and we’ve loved it, best decision I ever made. But you have to really want to do it - there’s no Uber up here, no deliveroo, Waitrose is 28 miles away and won’t deliver, the public transport is rubbish, no trains, you need a car to get anywhere. And when it snows, my gentle 12 mile drive to the office through country lanes is totally impassable. I don’t mean you need a 4x4, I mean don’t bother! We’re lucky as our house is on proper drainage, gas and electricity but most of the rural villages need cess-pits and oil heating. On the plus side, my home office is the same size as the ground floor of our old house, internet and mobile (4G not sure if we’ll ever get 5G)! are excellent, I have a garage and a large drive so electric car is an option (mind you forget about charging points locally) and the total lack of decent shops is a non- issue thanks to Amazon etc. Loads of parking everywhere, 20 mins to the beach, local flea pit cinema. But if you want to live in a diverse area with access to amazing restaurants, nightlife and high culture on your doorstep, forget it!
A lot of my mates bang on about how much they love living in a vibrant city like London - and that’s fine, I felt the same in my 20’s and early 30’s - but I think a lot will struggle without the amenities that they take for granted. I do think things will change but I’m not sure most will actually enjoy it.
I do feel a bit jammy that we made the move when we did tbh, not sure how we’d have managed in our old house, and I really feel for those living in a small flat without a garden in a city during the pandemic, my idea of hell

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How have your kids found it?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Other crushed avocados are available.

[Stanford]

I'm not sure that I would like to drive quite that far every week - probably 120-150 max each way for me. But although I am retired now, so not planning on that sort of change, if I was still working I would definitely consider that sort of change.

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...just imagine all the others who relocate under similar circumstances - the roads to town might be solid with all the new occasional commuters.

[mk1974]

Whoever is responsible for ploughing on with HS2 needs to read this!

It’s internet investment needed not trains


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[Halitosis]

I think the exodus will mostly be folk in the latter stages of their career and London will possibly get younger and more ethnically diverse. Young adults will continue to be drawn like moths to the bright lights and opportunities of the big city.

My employer (a global name and largest in its industry) has intimated that the future expectation will be half of our days in the office and half WFH. Suits me as I glide towards retirement but I feel for the interns and graduates

[gshort67]

I think the exodus will mostly be folk in the latter stages of their career and London will possibly get younger and more ethnically diverse. Young adults will continue to be drawn like moths to the bright lights and opportunities of the big city.

My employer (a global name and largest in its industry) has intimated that the future expectation will be half of our days in the office and half WFH. Suits me as I glide towards retirement but I feel for the interns and graduates

That’s a good point as what you want out of life changes with age, I personally couldn’t think of anything worse than living in London or surrounding areas. Open spaces, less people for me .


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[snowman]

I haven't worked in an office full time for pushing 20 years, but there are other advantages.to being in the south east as well as plenty of negatives.

A few will head for the sticks, but the theatres, clubs, museums, restaurants, etc won't abandon London.

You'll one day want to fly out for a holiday or a client face to face meeting and you won't enjoy the 400 mile round trip to get to an airport that goes there.

God forbid you might need an Ambulance and won't relish the hour wait for it to get to you.

The idea of living a rural idyll is lovely, but it won't be like that for many.

I dislike London on the whole, but can see it offers a lot for many people.

Me, I'd like to live near the sea, maybe I will one day but probably not soon.

M

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