Sinn offers a lot lot more, good tough watches with some interesting tech, same ETA movements, and without the cringeworthy marketing bs, and no need to discount 50% because it’s already priced fairly.
I've owned a few. I think the cases are really superb. They tend to be quite tall cases but very robust and scratch resistance. Lots of talk about being overpriced - hmmm, hard to tell but IMHO no more overpriced than an IWC 3777 or a Breitling Avenger Seawolf. Luckily deals are quite easy to get and whilst pre owned they are a good buy they are a better buy new with discount due to the perks you get from initial registration.
The S2000 with yellow bezel accents is at the top of my diver 'want' list and I'd rather have that over a PO or a Sub any day.
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Last edited by ryanb741; 24th January 2021 at 21:14.
Sinn offers a lot lot more, good tough watches with some interesting tech, same ETA movements, and without the cringeworthy marketing bs, and no need to discount 50% because it’s already priced fairly.
And you could say the same across the industry especially versus the ETA IWCs or Breitling for example.
Doesn’t take away that all Brands do their thing and some people will like it and others won’t.
Bremont seem to have built a successful UK business and brand from scratch and that should be applauded whether you like their watches or not in my opinion
You or may not have noticed, but it’s been a while since we have seen such discounts on a Bremont. Which could understandably be due to Covid and needing to turnover stock - they don’t have the reserves of the big players.
Im not sure Sinn offer anything more - I loved my U2, but it wasn’t perfect, and I wouldn’t swap any of my Bremonts for a U1.
For me it comes down to the watches - do I like the watch. If it looks good, and the price, specs and finish match my minimum requirements then their an option. I couldn’t give a monkeys about the marketing or much else - if I don’t like a watch, then I don’t like i5, if I do, I do.
I don’t need to defend them. There are other brands and watches I would choose before one, but they have their place, and as I like some of the styles I’ve bought a few.
I’m very pleased your Dad loves his. It’s a little bit special :)
Last edited by Omegamanic; 25th January 2021 at 00:30.
It's just a matter of time...
Got mine couple of weeks ago, 2nd hand, S301, and love it !
Holds the time as it should, feels solid and very smooth finishes - thoroughly pleased.
Must ask, when read comments 'is it worth it' ? what decides ? Provenance.... ?
They as well put together as many others
I have owned (and flipped) VC 47040, 42042, Rolex 14060 / 14060M / 114060 / Milgauss / Audemars 14790 / 15300 / IWC / Blancpain (which I still think are up at the top tier) etc, bar the 'cult' of Rolex, (and of course '' I'll recoup my money, and some'') which layman can say - 'this is superior to....' ??
My recent Grand Seiko has a finish that is second to none, albeit the quartz version, +/-10sec p.a. - where should this sit ?
Just a question....
And, I love the fact Bremont is a British creation, let's be a bit more enthusiastic at flying the flag :-)
Last edited by ingenioren; 25th January 2021 at 08:44.
This used to be the case, but I think Sinn are catching up with the market. If you want a tough and reliable modern 40-ish mm diver for example, you can buy a Sinn U50 tegimented on rubber for about 2500 or an S300 for roughly 3K. Still a difference but not miles apart, and I think Sinn are not done adjusting their pricing policy.
That was one project! The 75th was subtle and unique with plans and designs in place for the 100th already, but disregarding the tweaks the base model is a solid, sturdy and very well made piece which I was involved in at factory and throughout so can genuinely vouch for the process and craftsmanship that takes place. I haven’t been that intimate with any other organisation and doubt many have but from my time in the watch trade I know where I spent the most time dropping off and collecting repairs!!!!!
RIAC
Regarding the comments here on Sinn, that’s one of my favourite brands. My first decent watch was a 757 UTC which may still be owned by someone on this forum - bought it in 2007 I think.
My favourite Sinn is the pvd 142. Was thinking about the “new” 140 with the Sinn modified 7750 but not at £4,500 rrp for the bracelet version. Not sure what the comparable Bremont would be?
No decent discounts on Sinns sadly, best I could find was just under £4k on the “new” 140 in pvd with bracelet.
Ended up buying a Lemania 5100 pvd 142 and just put it on a Strapcode/Militat Razor bracelet as it looks like the original 140 bracelet but with that neat razor detail on the links next to the watch head, so a much better result in the end, especially as I’ve always preferred old to new.
Regards
Jon
Last edited by StampeSV4; 25th January 2021 at 11:25.
Sinn undoubtedly make some well made watches but they don’t do anything for me. As a brand I’d choose Bremont. I like their designs and the watches are tough. Plus the company is accessible. I’ve been to numerous events and launches often with free drinks and talks by their brand ambassadors on their adventures. I also like supporting a British business.
The standard Sinn u50 is hard enough with tegiment bezel and submarine steel, goes for £2,180. Think there was even a waitlist for the new ones given how popular they were on initial release, which probably shows they are great value even at full retail. Nothing wrong with Bremont, but they have the potential to do a lot better. Personally, I think Bremont will be quite successful in the long run, but I think they can be doing better if they shifted their considerable resources to finally delivering the long promised in-house instead of chucking more money in to the marketing department, sponsoring anything with a gun attached to it.
I have owned my Alt1-P for years, in fact with a serial under 150, mine was one of their earliest produced versions from their first range, it was COSC tested in 2008 and sold by Jura in 2009.
I did buy it used, not new, because I could, and it made sense to me in terms of depreciation. I bought it in 2011.
It is an excellent watch.
I've taken Bremont at their word and worn it for all sorts of activities, and it looks new.
Really, it just looks like it has been delivered from the AD. No marks on the case, the crystal is perfect, and it just keeps going at excellent accuracy, despite the fact that I have yet to get it serviced.
I did wear it lots, but not so much of late, as I generally prefer slightly smaller and/or lighter watches now.
I would love to get one of the GMT watches in Ti, but am yet to find the perfect model (Waterman in Ti if Bremont are reading this, I really prefer a dive bezel). I also like the white S300, lovely looking thing.
I have met the founders a few times over the years and always found them to be infectiously keen, totally unpretentious and very approachable.
I have seen them at GTGs having very long discussions with collectors about their vintage pieces, totally engrossed in that, rather than attempting to push their own watches at all costs.
Like many here, I find some of their LE's a little cringey, and tend not to look at them at all.
But I think the main range is very solid, and I wish them luck in producing as much of their watches over here as they can.
I have always thought that the value arguments were very questionable. If you just look at the amount of casework and quality in my Alt1-P compared to, say, an IWC fliegerchrono of the same era, the Bremont comes out on top in every regard, even though it retailed for less.
Of course, such things are a moving target, and (for instance) the shapes of sapphire srystal that Bremont used a decade back are now commonplace in many (significantly cheaper) microbrands.
So Bremont need to keep striving, and from waht I see, they still do.
Dave
The in house movement will be an exciting development for British watchmaking but to the average watch buyer the movement inside is of little consequence. However seeing a connection with something or someone they look up to is. Bremont have been very clever in cultivating a military connection.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Sinn, and I would not be put off another if the design appealed and the price was right.
I spent a little time with Sinn at Basel some years ago, when they were launching their Ti watches and they were great, and went over their processes etc.
There’s nothing wrong with the U50, but it’s a very simple brushed case and dial, compared to quite a complex case and some quite intricate dual work on a few Bremont models. They may use Submarine steel on a number of models, and tegimented process, but Bremont do have a hardening process to 2000 Vickers, Sinn’s is 1200-1500 unless they add there coating and then it’s a similar 2000.
I wasn’t overly sold on a Bremont years ago. I too had misgivings about their value proposition, especially at full RRP, but then they only had two or three models to choose from. Now they have a number of watches I their range that I’d happily own in a larger collection - the S500 and a Ti Boeing being top of my list. But it’s only fair to compare at a price you are paying - I’ve recently bought a Solo on a bracelet at considerably less than the £2180 of the Sinn, and whether you agree or not, for me it’s the better looking watch, which is surely all that matters.
It's just a matter of time...
I'm sure it's hard enough, but I think my comparison was more fair in terms of specs. Still, my point stands: Sinn is catching up, and given the fact that there were indeed waiting lists for this model, they're hardly going to make their next release cheaper than this one. So price-wise Sinn and Bremont are pretty much in the same market segment now.
The simple answer is of course that they're a commercial business, so they're spending their money based on how they expect to maximise their profit in the long run. A watch with a generic movement but an exciting, adventurous story attached is probably easier to sell than a more expensive but similar looking watch with an in-house movement. It will be interesting to see how this works for Oris, for example, who now offer the Aquis with the option of either a Sellita or their in-house cal 400.
Yes, Bremont seem to have taken over from Breitling with sales to the military and to pilots generally. I’m interested to see whether Breitling’s new leadership will let that go or tackle it. The difference is their involvement and accessibility - they are not a huge faceless corporation just writing out a cheque and slapping the corporate logo on an old aircraft to try and flog more watches - they are closely and personally involved in the aircraft world - both brothers have nearly died in vintage aircraft crashes, yet still fly.
They probably fly as much as they drive - I remember after one Flying Legends when both families piled into their ex-French military Broussard to fly home, in the same way that the public were loading up their SUVs in the car parks.
Funny thing is about the marketing that the two brothers are far more heavily involved in aviation than anyone really knows, particularly vintage aircraft, yet as far as I am aware, over the years they have said nothing publicly about it. Even in private they keep their cards close to their chests, so it’s not something I can talk about in an open forum. If you do meet either Nick or Giles ask them about old aircraft - they have some fascinating anecdotes. They are passionate about their watches but I sometimes wondered if it was a way of funding their love of old aircraft and flying.
Regards
Jon.
Yes, they are £3395 on a bracelet, but my point being it’s all about the price you end up paying. It was always like that with Omega and Rolex. The Rolex was more expensive to begin with, but I could only regularly get something like 10-15% off a new Rolex, but 30-35% off an Omega, which just made them appear even better value - or for the same money you could buy a higher range Omega compared to an entry level Rolex.
Thankfully I got a very good discount on new for the Solo, so I’m happy it was good value.
I’m also fairly sure the Sinn uses a Sellita movement which although equivalent is a much cheaper movement to buy in, and you only have the choice if you can convince ETA to supply you of course.
The other basic tool diver that stands out to me as a competitor to the Sinn is the Damasko Sub1, which looks great value - I should have bought one to try when they were available with a little discount, but maybe some other time.
It's just a matter of time...
I've had an Airco Mach 1 for a few months now and really love it.
Clear, legible, great time keeping, nice build quality and just sits right on my wrist.
Despite having strap and bracelet, I wear it almost exclusively on a Bremont Nato, which is the nicest Nato I've used.
I'm not overly impressed with their constant special editions (but then I'm not impressed by Breitling's airplane fetish or Rolex's unavailability either) and agree with what the others have said about not paying full price, but if you can get new for 40% off like at Burrells then they make a decent buy.
Yes its Sellita which is the same as a ETA. Not sure what the cost difference is these days, though I don’t think it is that material relative to the overall price of the watch? Swatch Group the nasty little monopolisers they are have been looking to restrict ETA to peers perhaps that is also a reason for more wide use of Sellita now.
The finishing is not the same, and depending on where you buy it can apparently be a third of the price. A number of watchmakers much prefer the ETA compared to Sellita, and there have been numerous threads on forums showing some details. It appears that there are far more warranty claims, but I don’t have first hand experience.
This one is quite interesting, and a few years old, so things may have moved on, for example:
https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/g...s-eta.4560411/
I note that Tudor are using Sellita in their cheaper range, the new Royal line. I’m just pleased my Tudor Style had the reworked ETA, but I’m sure Tudor would make sure their version is as good as it could be.
It's just a matter of time...
I don’t think they change the wheels etc. Just the similar difference to the ETA movements from Standard to Top/Chronometer, but you can see from the link that the ETA looks better, to me at least.
Im sure they are all but virtually equivalent, but I’d always choose the ETA equivalent - they have the history, and reputation. Soprod look interesting, and I’d choose one of those before Sellita given the choice, but again they are more expensive.
It's just a matter of time...
The S300 is a perfect watch size, I have the black as well, but the blue is striking and the white is very different, think it’s also the watch that was worn by Nims Purja on his climbing escapades
Don’t wear mine on the bracelet, love it on the temple island rubber though
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S300 is a beauty for sure.
This thread has made me pull my SM500 out and fit the rubber strap to it (it's been living on an Erika's for some time now) Forgot just how good it looks and feels. The fitted strap fits the case and lugs perfectly, and is made of "real" rubber, rather than silicon. Love the way the stripes on the strap carry on the tuxedo centre section of the dial.
For me, this is the best looking watch Bremont have made.
Looks great on the rubber.
As a diver I would have preferred the lack of a day window, but as most of us just wear our divers for the look I’m coming around to the view that it doesn’t really matter.
I like that they came up with a totally individual look, when a lot of other new/newer brands have just picked the safest look/features, and usually have elements of at least one of the more well known players, to sell their watches.
It's just a matter of time...
Why a lack of Day?
Especially If it’s already got a date, it’s nice to have the day too.
I like it, but the day date does look a little Japanese (Seiko esque)
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Fair enough ! But you’re warming to it right?
I like it.
Just not sure I want a Bremont.
I’d dump the Offshore Professional first I think.
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It's a brand I want to like and I agree that British watchmaking should be celebrated but for some reason I can't seem to get on board. I have handled a few of their watches and the quality of finishing seems decent but never pulled the trigger. Perhaps it's the marketing that doesn't sit right with me or the bad residuals putting me off.
I'm gonna suggest there's nowt wrong with having a day feature
Back when I did tech diving, the Citizen Fugu was the watch du jour. It shows the day and date - handy on dive trips when I forgot the day of the week! And the day feature neither hindered the watch's ISO certification nor the Italian Navy issuing it to Comando Subacquei Incursori.
& in retrospect, I’m coming round to that. It’s just when I first saw the design, I felt that I’d have preferred a simple date. But it really doesn’t make too much of a difference, it’s just a preference. That said I enjoyed quite a few non-date sub purchases at similar money to the Bremont, and look were they are now...
The Bremont still has something about it styling wise - the dial, and the case, are just that little bit different from anything else, that the Supermarine could happily have a place in an overall collection. The issue only arises when you want an only watch, or a smaller number, say around 3, and then you really are in the realms of absolute preferences and need to be quite picky.
It's just a matter of time...
Chisholm Hunter got some Bremont ex displays on sale!
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I want to like them but . . .
1.) These days I like a smaller, lighter, classier watch. I'd love Bremont to do a simple 38mm or even 36mm three hander.
2.) Also, they seem to be trying too hard, brand-wise.
They look like the sort of watch worn by 40 or 50-something ex-Sandhurst officer type in red trousers with a barn conversion in Oxfordshire. Private school, good regiment (or poss. RAF). Might have a classic car or a light aircraft.
But I do hear good things about them as watches.
I just can't see myself wearing one. Rather have a Nomos.
You mean like a 37mm three hander...
https://www.bremont.com/collections/watches-solo-37
1) the sizing of your watches is just a personal preference. I prefer 42-45mm for example, and feel that they make some larger models that “fit” me and my larger wrists better.
2) I’m not sure how hard a brand should try. Isn’t it the job of all brands to try as hard as they can to succeed. Some models might be overly stylised, but lots are quite plain, or have a plain option.
The observation of work by ex-Sandhurst is very specific. I’m not sure where that comes from. Although they admit a large percentage of their customers are military or ex military. They’ve captured an area of the market that Breitling used to own.
I can’t say the typical owners that attended the events here each TT week looked anything like your assessment of owners though.
I’d better get my red trousers out of the wardrobe, ready for summer ;)
It's just a matter of time...