Reply With QuoteCan't see it myself.
Well this guy thinks it may happen;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aJeQFRPIg8
Can't see it myself.
Frederico used to dislike Grand Seiko. Now he sells watches (Delray Watches) and wants to boost sales of rivals to Rolex....more profit.
These guys are salesmen, not neutral enthusiasts.
I can't stand him or his show, he constantly contradicts himself.
Some how I personally can’t see it happening ever.
nnnaaaaahhhhhhhhh
I cant see GS dethroning Rolex (or any brand for that matter for a while) but the rise of GS is clear and popularity of the brand is growing. With thinner sports models and micro adjusting clasps i think they would become even more popular. I do think other brands are like GS, Omega, IWC etc are getting ever increasing sales as people become more and more fatigued and turned off by the Rolex BS. Also, I am seeing more and more people are choosing an alternative as opposed to playing rolex AD games. Will the tide turn enough to impact Rolex's model availability strategy...time will tell.
I doubt it as the ‘jilted lover’ mentality IRL is as strong as here.
Seiko confuses me a little bit with the way that some of the "cheaper" sub-brands now have watches that cost as much or more than Grand Seiko - so various Prospex in the £4K and above range...
Ive never had or seen a request for Grand Seiko in any of the trade related watch groups. Rolex, asked for every five minutes.
I get that there's a GS niche, and they make darned fine watches, and have WIS appeal by the boat-load.
But if the outside world isnt asking for them... how do they expect to dethrone the worlds most requested brand in the business?
I don't think anybody's going to dethrone A Lange & Sohne anytime soon :D
Won't get my money any way
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How tiresome. Maybe try a different hobby.
I do watch some of his videos occasionally, never anything interesting or useful. What surprises me is how he can afford two Ferrari, his delray business must be doing very well! Though more likely living way beyond his means, and definitely compensating.
I can see it now!!!
Grand Seiko to sponsor Wimbledon.....
Or be timekeepers for F1?
Use Martin Scorsese and James Cameron as ambassadors?
Perhaps they’ll spawn thousands (if not MILLIONS) of YouTube clips, Instagram pages, Facebook “Investment sales” pages and EBay profit-monster sales??
Perhaps Seiko can invent 100 years of horological history at the forefront of luxury and aspiration....
And their own forum, absolutely chock-full of people raving about them!!!!
Errr NOPE.....
Exactly. Can't stand most of these clowns.Originally Posted by paskinner
Rolex are great watches and one of the worlds greatest brands, but, of course, one is partially paying for the brand and what it costs the brand to be what it is; marketing, design, sponsorship etc.
Grand Seiko are great watches in some ways better than Rolex but the cachet will mean that like Lexus, Infinity etc. the third party recognition will hold them back compared to the established luxury brands.
I have a Grand Seiko and a couple of Rolexes, I don't see them as competitors in the same segment.
Grand Seiko, like Rolex, are creating value through rarity of some of their limited editions etc but not on the same scale as Rolex do with core items.
The emerging markets are even more conservative, than the established ones, so it is probably unlikely to change for some time.
Companies like F.P Journe and Ressence are shaking things up more IMO.
Last edited by Graveworm; 20th January 2021 at 15:29.
I'll admit I haven't watched the vid but I don't think that's GS saying that, is it? Just some youtuber being controversial for the clicks.
If GS really wanted to take on Rolex, first thing they'd need to do is stop squeezing out limited editions like a hen on whizz.
To be fair, Seiko over the years have done pretty much all of what you have just mentioned.
Nah, its the YouTuber and coincidental GS stockist saying it. I was responding as if to him.
also heh @ hen on whizz, brilliant.
Not going to happen. There have been plenty of brands that have consistently produced better watches than Rolex over the years at a similar price point. GP, UN, JLC and Zenith spring immediately to mind and there will be countless others. None of these have been able to topple the great marketing machine and Grand Seiko will be no different.
He’s also really trying to hype up Moser (together with WatchBox it seems) for the last couple of years, think he has a number of them in his collection now. I really appreciate Moser also...aside from how it looks!
I remember the launch of the Lexus LS400 in 1990 a great event and we were informed that the S Class was going to be overtaken such was the high / 'superior' quality of the LS400...which was a great piece of engineering and had many features ahead of its time and rivals....and many are still running happily today with galactic mileages...
but....
Fast Forward 31 years and the 'S-Class' is still doing ok....and the Luxury Barge of choice.....
This - Rolex aren't as popular as they are because some watch nerds on a forum like them, they're that popular because they've totally tapped into the mass market perception of what a 'luxury watch' is.
GS is niche even in the watch nerds on a forum niche!
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Yes but if jo public wants a submariner and walks into a AD and is told no chance, chances are they will buy an alternative model.This - Rolex aren't as popular as they are because some watch nerds on a forum like them, they're that popular because they've totally tapped into the mass market perception of what a 'luxury watch' is.
GS is niche even in the watch nerds on a forum niche!
M
Yes, Tudor. ;-)
Ha! Probably.
Yes but in the category of cars that most people actually buy these days (SUV's) Japanese brands (Lexus, Acura and Infiniti) are murdering the established German brands in the USA. The Lexus RX outselling it's closest competitor by nearly double.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/luxury-...and-crossovers
That said - I don't think Rolex is going anywhere but up, they have way too much inertia to falter and are the aspirational watch of choice for most. Which I'm fine with as it means juicy 2nd hand bargains for all the brands that I like.
Click bait at it’s best.
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Or Timefactors!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164656150847
This post really illustrates the futility of arguing about this, due to the impossibility of agreeing the reasons that Rolex might be considered to be at the top, or on the "throne".
I will say though that none of the criteria listed here makes my 16750 any more desirable, enjoyable or practical even than one of my Seiko 5s.
I mean it is more desirable and enjoyable than a Seiko 5, of course. But not because there's a Rolex website forum, or a few million photos of them on Instagram, or because James Cameron likes them.
Lasted 30 seconds. I find Federico so damned annoying to watch.
Or go next door and buy an Omega...
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
It is possible for a brand to come from nowhere and have a huge impact in their sector. Look at Under Armour and Tesla. But for Seiko it’s just too well known as a budget brand to have a chance at stealing the Rolex Crown. Seiko should have launched something new rather than tack ‘Grand’ to their moniker.
A Grand Skoda anyone?
After dethroning should we all remove the crown symbol from our Rolexes? And if so what is the best way to do this myself? Crystal might be tricky.
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To dethrone is to implicitly accept Rolex is currently the best, the king etc etc which is nonsense. I have Rolex watches and other brands, like them all, but equally have respect for many other brands, whether to my personal taste or not, without having to push down another brand to lift justify owning something else.
It seems with Rolex, many seem to have a humongous chip on their shoulder with regards to the brand, the watches, and their perception of owners. So much belly ache on this brand.
About as likely as Angelina Jolie being dethroned by Sonia from EastEnders.
Mmmmmm....nope. Not a chance.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Is a Rolex a better watch than a Seiko GS or just better marketed ?
Early April fools ?
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brutal but true... I love the Long Island Watch channel as he's so frank about the fact that his primary goal is to sell his watches (which are mostly very affordable...). This guy does change his narrative all the time
It doesn’t matter which brand is the best (there’s no way of deciding that any way).
The average person doesn’t have enough knowledge or headspace to have an in-depth knowledge of every subject so we quickly make some assumptions based on the little we know. Ask a random people to name the best watch brand and the majority will say Rolex. To many it’ll be the only luxury watch brand name they know. That’s enough to call it ‘the best’, if that’s the general view.
Think grand seiko saturate the market too much with a million different special editions. More likely to overtake omega if anything
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Can’t see it even though I love the sweep of the second hand on the Spring Drive.
GS need to up their game on their bracelets, slim down the cases. James Bond also should wear one!
Lots of debate I can see. For what it is worth I don't think there is much chance of GS 'dethroning' Rolex from a share of market perspective. For all the talk of Rolex being unobtanium, in the luxury watch segment they are number 1 in sales revenues by a long way over the number 2 player Omega. Given the fact Rolex watches are largely mass produced and Grand Seiko have a lot more hand finishing involved the sheer scale involved in competing on a revenue basis would be pretty much impossible given the number of people that would be required.
So then the question is can Rolex be 'dethroned' from a brand image perspective? Well this is more likely but still very very difficult. It has been touched upon by several posters in this thread that Rolex don't make the best watches but have the best brand recognition. Furthermore to the layman in the street Seiko have a lot of brand recognition but ironically recognition placing them in a segment below where they actually are. Many people assume Seiko to be a sub-£100 brand. Good luck buying a BNIB Seiko for under £100. But it just shows much work to be done.
I rather suspect GS have the intention of establishing themselves in a sphere above the likes of Omega, IWC etc and alongside Rolex, JLC etc. The positioning of the brand with recent price hikes (accompanied by movement development of course) would indicate that this is what they are trying to do - moreover that exclusivity is one of the draws for the brand and one they are likely to continue to play on, albeit with the desire to be a bit less exclusive. I suspect they are looking at the buyer who would plonk down £8k on a Panerai or Omega as a target, and absolutely for sure they would go after Rolex in the Datejust segment as the GS products in this particular niche are arguably on a different level to what Rolex can offer. Realistically very few people able to buy a Submariner are likely to forsake it for a GS Diver - and most likely someone outlaying £8k or so on the latest divers from GS already have a Rolex as well as several other nice watches. GS don't have the heritage or history in the diver segment anyway which is fine as there is a very closely associated brand that drops the 'Grand' from its title that most certainly does have a compelling dive watch heritage and we have seen the SLA rereleases latch onto this market, albeit in very small numbers.
So to sum up I suspect the aim is to establish themselves as a higher end luxury watch brand alongside Rolex and JLC and above Omega etc, to then cater to this audience in smallish volumes, and perhaps to take on the King Rolex in the segment where they are most likely to have joy and have (arguably) the superior product which would be going after that Datejust segment. As it is Rolex sells an absolute bucket load of ladies watches and GS have a very, VERY limited range that credibly could compete here.
Last edited by ryanb741; 20th January 2021 at 22:31.
Ney chance
I am not sure why this is even an issue. Seiko have sponsored sporting events, celebrities, sports personalities, TV ads etc...etc...
When GS first really took off when they were JDM only the main attraction was they were a lot cheaper than any of their Swiss competitors yet the quality was equal to if not better than many of them. Since they they have been customer gouging as much as any other brand.
I don’t know why people still want to perceive Seiko as the little guy taking on the evil Swiss empire they are just another multi million pound company who are after your cash just like the rest of them. Why would Seiko need to take on Rolex why would they even care?
I agree with most of what you say, but do you have any evidence for this?
There are few sub-£100 watches and I've never felt Seiko occupied the lower end of the market, as do, say, Casio, Lorus, Pulsar or Sekonda (and I know Casio, for example, have many models far exceeding that price).
If you asked me, I'd put them in the £300-£500 range these days, which is probably still too low for most of their watches, but certainly not the sub-£100 range.
Quite the opposite I would have thought - Surely Seiko sales far exceed Rolex, by revenue as well as units? I can't seem to find any reliable looking numbers.
Why would Seiko want to take on Rolex? Well, I'm sure they'd like to sell as many GS as Rolex do their watches.
M
Last edited by snowman; 21st January 2021 at 12:27.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
There is maybe a sense within the watch sector that a shift in the demographic of the buyer could sway the balance away from the established brands of Rolex, Omega etc and maybe that is what is trying to be highlighted. Certainly not going to happen today or next year but as fashions, trends and perceptions change over time, the next generation of watch buyers could just very easily turn away from Rolex and Omega and maybe that is what is the long game GS are looking at.
Rolex has always been a big player but it’s market dominance has only reached the point that we are seeing now, over the past 3/4 years and that maybe shows that the dominance is a fervour fad and at some point that will wane, with Rolex returning to it’s established position as one of the big names but having to compete now with GS, Omega etc.
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