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Thread: Would a put together full box etc set put you off ?

  1. #1

    Would a put together full box etc set put you off ?

    If you was thinking of buying a reasonably expensive second hand Rolex or Omega would a put together full set i.e box, tags etc put you off compared to the watch coming with its original full set ? would it be a deal breaker ?

  2. #2
    If it’s not what came with the watch in the first place, it’s pointless.

  3. #3
    Master
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    It would put me off.

  4. #4
    Master Halitosis's Avatar
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    If year/model correct and genuine rather than replicas, then no problem - except for the warranty card and receipt of course

  5. #5
    Master
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    How would anyone know?

  6. #6
    Not at all. If the main items are there - individual warranty card, personalised tags etc. then no. The AD just grabs the box and booklets from a pile, so it makes absolutely no difference.
    It's just a matter of time...

  7. #7
    Master endo's Avatar
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    The real question is would 95% of people on here even notice the difference, if it looked like an original fullset (and everything genuine)?

    Plus, boxes and watches were originally shipped seperately, so chances are the original box was just pulled out of a pile in the storeroom at the original point of sale.

  8. #8
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Trigger's broom.

    Okay if reflected in the price.

  9. #9
    Master
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    I’ve assembled the missing parts to make a ‘full set’ except for the test cert, original warranty and purchase receipt- actually maybe it’s not a full set, it’s a collection of related bits.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by estoban7 View Post
    How would anyone know?
    This.

    Although any ‘full(ish) set’ without the paperwork is always slightly suspicious.

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by estoban7 View Post
    How would anyone know?
    Only by the dates on the booklets

    Wouldn’t put me off if the price was right, unless it was a fairly new watch


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  12. #12
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Seems like you are asking the inverse question I had on the value of NOT having what might be construed as a 'full set'. (search forum below).

    I think it depends on the age of the watch. I would be question how someone could get the correct warranty card and swing tag with the correct serial numbers for the watch from the internet after sale. All the other bits and bobs can be bought at a price.

    After the warranty has expired I would not be too concerned about having the original cards, preferring evidence of a recent service record - but for modern pieces I would expect the warranty cards to be present and correct along with the correct box and manual.

    Martyn

  13. #13
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estoban7 View Post
    How would anyone know?
    Most books are dated, hang tags change over time. It's usually obvious when someone has put together an eBay full set. Don't bother.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by endo View Post
    The real question is would 95% of people on here even notice the difference, if it looked like an original fullset (and everything genuine)?
    Oh yes, yes for sure it could turn into a 300 post sales thread, no problem whatsoever.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    If you was thinking of buying a reasonably expensive second hand Rolex or Omega would a put together full set i.e box, tags etc put you off compared to the watch coming with its original full set ? would it be a deal breaker ?
    Are you thinking of buying something?

    Let's face it, this 'problem' only exists in Rolex world.

  16. #16
    The watch itself matters the most to me (by far), echoing previous posts, the "original box & accessories, no papers" ones all seem somewhat suspicious... although I have to say when I was overwhelmed by the 1016 I bought recently with the original and all service papers.


    (also yes this is really just a Rolex only situation)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Are you thinking of buying something?

    Let's face it, this 'problem' only exists in Rolex world.
    Hopefully yes this year and it will more than likely be my last watch buy and the most expensive so a little research before hand never hurts imo.

  18. #18
    Apprentice
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    Quote Originally Posted by estoban7 View Post
    How would anyone know?
    Indeed. Many on here would but we’re not the majority.

  19. #19
    Master
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    As long as I like the watch not really. Never got the point of a full set of the source is trustworthy...


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  20. #20
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by estoban7 View Post
    How would anyone know?
    Exactly this.
    They wouldn't know if you got the correctly dated and period correct boxes and tags.
    A box and booklets add value otherwise they wouldn't sell for big numbers on their own.

  21. #21
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    I would be fine if it comes from a reputable seller.

  22. #22
    Master
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    If it came with everything but the original papers, that would be quite odd unless it’s cobbled together, in which case I value the watch and sum of extras (per eBay minus hassle factor of then selling it). Though if I a watch came with just papers, but then the seller cobbled everything else together, did not disclose this, and tried to sell it at full set premium, I would find that a tad dishonest and annoying, but then it’s hard to tell unless the extras are not obviously period correct. So essentially that is why the most value aside the watch itself is the original papers and the honesty/reputation of the seller.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by junglebert View Post
    If it’s not what came with the watch in the first place, it’s pointless.
    What he said.

  24. #24
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    What he said.
    Can you tell me how you would know if period correct and dates of booklets matched with the serial number?

  25. #25
    If the cardboard outer sleeve wasn’t included that would be a deal breaker for me

  26. #26
    The day I start thinking about these things, I would quit the hobby.

  27. #27
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    There's someone on here who occasionally puts up WTBs for the bits to make full sets, it's fairly obvious but I wouldn't buy from them anyway.

    If a watch doesn't come with its original paperwork it looks odd to see a box and hang tag etc. Equally if someone has the original paperwork and nothing else I can see why they'd want to find the extra bits if they were either a) anal about that kind of thing or b) looking at resale value. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather buy a watch to wear without having to store all the useless gubbins somewhere.
    "A man of little significance"

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    Can you tell me how you would know if period correct and dates of booklets matched with the serial number?
    I wouldn’t care in the first place, what exactly is it going to prove?

  29. #29
    Craftsman Euan Begbie's Avatar
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    What’s the point of gathering all the parts unless the are period/date correct?

    And if they are? You wouldn’t know.


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  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Euan Begbie View Post
    What’s the point of gathering all the parts unless the are period/date correct?

    And if they are? You wouldn’t know.


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    Exactly!
    It's just a matter of time...

  31. #31
    If at sometime this year I get the watch I want it will be for a regular wearer so preferably a watch that has been used but not abused, a keeper and definitely not for a safe queen so future resale value not a consideration (for me), so the papers and kit are not important as long as it is obviously 100% legit but I suppose the paperwork could be useful for the next generation.

  32. #32
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    If at sometime this year I get the watch I want it will be for a regular wearer so preferably a watch that has been used but not abused, a keeper and definitely not for a safe queen so future resale value not a consideration (for me), so the papers and kit are not important as long as it is obviously 100% legit but I suppose the paperwork could be useful for the next generation.

    Given your intentions, receipts for any servicing carried out in your ownership would be more useful for for the next generation. IMHO.
    F.T.F.A.

  33. #33
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Honestly, I would rather buy a nice example of a watch than pay more for a box and a few bits of paper.

    Unless the full set is something unusual/useful/attractive I don't see any appeal in paying for stuff most people would have thrown away.

    But then I'd probably never buy a Rolex...

    M

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    Last edited by snowman; 17th January 2021 at 11:56.
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  34. #34
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    As long as the watch is right I would rather pay less and lose all the baubles.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

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    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  35. #35
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebert View Post
    If it’s not what came with the watch in the first place, it’s pointless.
    My thoughts exactly!

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    Exactly!
    +1

  37. #37
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Original papers, quite a lot of value for Rolex. They seem to be worth a premium of 10-15%, possibly mad, but that is the market, so I would definitely price that in. That doesn’t extend to service papers.

    The other stuff, box, tags etc is irrelevant

    D


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  38. #38
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    Not at all. If the main items are there - individual warranty card, personalised tags etc. then no. The AD just grabs the box and booklets from a pile, so it makes absolutely no difference.
    I would agree with this comment. Even without the bits, it wouldn’t be a deal breaker but Then I would expect the item to be priced lower then the equivalent with a true “full set“.

  39. #39
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    Original papers, quite a lot of value for Rolex. They seem to be worth a premium of 10-15%, possibly mad, but that is the market, so I would definitely price that in. That doesn’t extend to service papers.

    The other stuff, box, tags etc is irrelevant

    D


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    I'd say more like 25-30% on the price for B&P on the older stuff.

  40. #40
    Lets just say for example a 16600, less than 20 years old, worn but not abused, dial/hand/bezel superb, head only on a bracelet, less 10% ish because head only ? what sort of price would you be expecting to pay ?

  41. #41
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Lets just say for example a 16600, less than 20 years old, worn but not abused, dial/hand/bezel superb, head only on a bracelet, less 10% ish because head only ? what sort of price would you be expecting to pay ?
    £7k or £7.5k with recent service history.

  42. #42
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    To my mind there are two aspects to B & P.
    One is the straight collector value. If the best example of something (anything, not necessarily watches) is with its original packaging and materials, then so be it. The B&P has its own value, in that respect.
    The other aspect is that it is a type of evidence of continuous ownership by person(s) for whom the object mattered. It shows it was cared for and looked after. It is by no means a guarantee, but in likelihood a watch with B&P will probably be better looked after, more original, and better maintained (continuously) than one without.
    Having put-together B&P (even of the correct type) may add the theoretical value of the first aspect.
    But it provides none of the comfort of the second aspect, and if anything it makes you wonder what else has gone wrong, and been "corrected". Is the bracelet all original, or does it have aftermarket bits? Are there isssues in the movement that may come to light later?
    I would always prefer to get a watch with B&P if I could afford it and would never add B&P retrospectively to a watch that had none.
    But I guess that, especially with ROlex, one can end up having to effectively spend many hundreds on a box and papers, and that does seem a little strange.

    D

  43. #43
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    To my mind there are two aspects to B & P.
    One is the straight collector value. If the best example of something (anything, not necessarily watches) is with its original packaging and materials, then so be it. The B&P has its own value, in that respect.
    The other aspect is that it is a type of evidence of continuous ownership by person(s) for whom the object mattered. It shows it was cared for and looked after. It is by no means a guarantee, but in likelihood a watch with B&P will probably be better looked after, more original, and better maintained (continuously) than one without.
    Having put-together B&P (even of the correct type) may add the theoretical value of the first aspect.
    But it provides none of the comfort of the second aspect, and if anything it makes you wonder what else has gone wrong, and been "corrected". Is the bracelet all original, or does it have aftermarket bits? Are there isssues in the movement that may come to light later?
    I would always prefer to get a watch with B&P if I could afford it and would never add B&P retrospectively to a watch that had none.
    But I guess that, especially with ROlex, one can end up having to effectively spend many hundreds on a box and papers, and that does seem a little strange.

    D
    I get what you are saying there but if I'm after something vintage and see a whole load of Rolex services(which would be the owner taking care and looking after it) then the likelihood is that it will have had replacement parts and a fair bit of polishing .Whereas the one that hasn't been in for service likely to have more originality and an unmolested case.
    Pays your money and takes your chances.

  44. #44
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    I wouldn’t let a box and papers sway a deal as long as the price is right. If I was paying top money I’d expect a complete set. I’ve a couple of watches in my collection that are in cracking condition with full box and papers and I’m extra careful when wearing them (almost overly conscious). I have others that are the watch only, and no history. These have been worn and enjoyed so I can wear them without worrying about keeping them immaculate. Swings and roundabouts for me- depends what you’re after.

  45. #45
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    I'd say more like 25-30% on the price for B&P on the older stuff.
    I’m behind the times!

    D


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  46. #46
    Craftsman levkov's Avatar
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    Depends on how old the watch is; don't mind if it's "very vintage" (even the lack of box/papers), but might mind if it's only few years old

  47. #47
    Master
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    Box and papers are a must for me.

  48. #48
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzodog View Post
    Box and papers are a must for me.
    Even if the box and other peripherals weren't original? That's the question here.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom-P View Post
    Even if the box and other peripherals weren't original? That's the question here.
    But as has been pointed out many times, no-one will know unless bought new by yourself.

  50. #50
    Master
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    Two fairly obvious examples from about 15 years ago spring to mind. The smaller Breitling Bakelite box, that break at the hinges, and the red Omega boxes that shed their coating. If either of these were replaced with the correct, genuine, intact box how would it make any difference? After all, if returned to Breitling or Omega for a service, some internal bits in the actual watch will likely have been replaced with OEM parts, so how could doing something similar with the box have any significance?
    I had a Navitimer of this era, complete with a broken box, and BUK sold me a new box set for a fairly modest sum. I understand that they no longer do this but they certainly did a few years ago. Similarly my local Omega AD recently provided me with an unused red box/white outer FOC to replace a sticky, peeling box that promptly got binned.

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