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Thread: 2021 F1 Thread.

  1. #251
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    Regardless of blame, the fact that MV walked away from his car parked on LHs head without a backward glance says a lot about his attitude to other drivers and their welfare. Sure, we all get angry but to not even concede that LH could have been seriously injured says volumes about MVs mentality.


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  2. #252
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    Exactly.
    MV wouldn’t care if someone died as long has he wins.

  3. #253
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    What a Race today!
    Shame that there was the crash but hey, in my opinion Lewis had the road and Max should have yielded and attacked into curva grande.
    Apart from that though the Honey badger drove a brilliant race, we were treated to a podium Shoey! Lando again top job and bottas charging through.
    Day to forget for Red Bull and Alpha Tauri
    Great for the neutral spectator though


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  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJL25 View Post
    Exactly.
    MV wouldn’t care if someone died as long has he wins.
    That’s just not true, these drivers compete on a racetrack, this isn’t demolition Derby


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  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    That’s just not true, these drivers compete on a racetrack, this isn’t demolition Derby


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    Someone should tell that to MV.

  6. #256

  7. #257
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    Agree with that he should have yielded, was a daft error


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  8. #258
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    As soon as Horner called it a racing incident the whole world knew it was Max’s fault.

    Stuff happens, but what I found most distasteful was Max’s attitude immediately getting out of the car and walking away, knowing full well Hamilton was still in the car. Compare this with Lando’s accident in Spa and how Vettel reacted.
    Last edited by Andyg; 12th September 2021 at 19:19.

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  9. #259
    It's possible MV knew LH was ok as LH was trying to reverse off the gravel. Unlikely he would have been doing that if he was seriously injured.
    For me racing incident. Interesting that everyone Ex F1 drivers and all split into two camps.
    Anyway on to the next one in two weeks

  10. #260
    I think the whole Red Bull team are tainted. Poor sportsmanship from Max and Horner

  11. #261
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    Unbelievable....what will Horner say about dangerous overtaking and near death etc....
    Thankfully Lewis is okay, not that Vestaptin seemed to give a dam after planting a car on top of him.
    Thanks the angels for the halo.

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  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9david View Post
    It's possible MV knew LH was ok as LH was trying to reverse off the gravel. Unlikely he would have been doing that if he was seriously injured.
    For me racing incident. Interesting that everyone Ex F1 drivers and all split into two camps.
    Anyway on to the next one in two weeks

    True. However still pretty poor show to simply walk away (down the track).

    As for other drivers, it depends on who they are and their allegiances . Damon Hill (who has experience of having a car parked on him) thought that it was deliberate. Max knew he had lost the place and decided on his own course of action, but only Max knows for certain, What’s interesting that the Max’s narrative has changed. Initially he blamed Hamilton and now it’s a racing incident. Bless!

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  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm_3 View Post
    Regardless of blame, the fact that MV walked away from his car parked on LHs head without a backward glance says a lot about his attitude to other drivers and their welfare. Sure, we all get angry but to not even concede that LH could have been seriously injured says volumes about MVs mentality.
    Perhaps ominously, you're right. MV shows some of the symptoms of being on the autistic spectrum and it may well not be long before he seriously injures or kills someone.

  14. #264
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    According to Mercedes, Hamilton received a good whack on the bonce from Max’s wheel at Monza and that he is getting treatment for a sore neck (which should be OK for Russia).

    In other news, Helmet Marko suggested that Mercedes are attempting to play up the knock that Hamilton received, in in order to gain a sympathy vote. A bit rich, given the “51g, dangerous and reckless driving, one race ban, celebrating while Max was in hospital, etc statements he was making following Silverstone. But oh hum,

    For those interested this is an animation of the accident from various angle which I found very interesting.

    https://youtu.be/rbU_iUIay3w

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  15. #265
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    IMO there is quite a difference between "that’s what you get if you don’t leave me space" which is personal and what was actually said, ie "that’s what you get if you don’t leave the space".

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    IMO there is quite a difference between "that’s what you get if you don’t leave me space" which is personal and what was actually said, ie "that’s what you get if you don’t leave the space".
    Well it doesn’t actually matter really which he said. The fact is that according to the sporting regulations (and to how they are currently interpreted) on a corner like that which doesn’t have gravel (or, obviously, a concrete wall), as long as there’s room left for the challenging car to keep a wheel on the track, then that’s enough room. Sausage kerbs are irrelevant, and Max had the choice to head left via the escape route, but chose not to.

    That was recognised in the stewards’ written judgement (they did recognise it was close, and that LCH could have left more), which accordingly allocated predominant blame to Max.

  17. #267
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    It’s that time again when F1 heads off to Russia and perhaps Tilke’s worse track (although the competition is strong). There have been a couple of changes to the track this year but I am struggling to see any differences in the lay out. Entrance to the pit lane is slower.

    Tyre choices are C3, C4 and C5 so although a track that favoured Mercedes in the past, I think it should favour RBR this time. Max will get a 3 place grid penalty as a result of his actions in Monza, however it’s very likely that RBR might take a new engine, which will put him at the back.

    Weather for the weekend is likely to be wet.

    The head steward for the weekend (as it’s seems to becoming more relevant after every GP) is Emanuele Pirro who had a very poor F1 record, but did manage 5 Le Mans wins with Audi.

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  18. #268
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    Hope the drainage system is decent!


  19. #269
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    Well the weather was indeed wet, but it did create a rather interesting and exciting GP (especially the last 6 laps).

    Firstly congratulations to Hamilton for his 100 GP wins. An epic record, which is a bit mind bending to be honest. I do think he was rather fortunately to get Norris, however perhaps it was Karma paying him back for Spa and for China 2007 (which cost him a WDC).

    Secondly, well done to Max, who like Hamilton was fortunate to make up all those places in the final couple of laps to get second.

    Thirdly. Norris was excellent, drove really well and was very unfortunate not to secure a podium at least. That said hopefully he will learn from the experience and be better for it. I do however believe that McLaren should have been a bit more forceful in getting Norris to pit sooner, rather than allowing him to make a choice.

    Othet notables (IMHO) included Sainz, Danny, Alonso (who I thorough drive very well) and George (especially for his performance up to the first rounds of pit stops).

    Less notables were Vettel, for his antics with his team mate (yes I know people will blame Stroll, but Vettel really shouldn’t have put himself in that position) and Bottas for simply allowing Max to drive around him. Even Webber and DC were gobsmacked how useless his defence had been.

    Anywhoo, the WDC remains close, even if the gap between RBR and Mercedes in the WCC is widening.

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  20. #270
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    After Hamilton’s 100 GP victory in Russia, the show moves to Turkey, home of Hamilton’s 7th winning WDC race last year. This year the title is very much still in the mix with 7 races to go and only 2 points separating Hamilton and Max. All very exciting.

    Last years race was a comedy on ice, giving the new track surface and some wet and horrible weather, which interesting we could see repeated this weekend, especially in qualifying on the Saturday - less so on the Sunday.

    As for tyre choices the teams will get C1, C2 and C3 assuming of course they actually need slicks.

    As for other news. Max had a new engine for Russia, however it’s not clear whether Hamilton will take a new engine (and start at the back) for Turkey, some of this might be weather dependant.

    It’s a track to suits the RBR, so expect Max to do well, that said give the progress made by McLaren, I don’t think he will be racing just the Mercedes.

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  21. #271
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    If it's wet, Hamilton will take a new engine

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperStripes View Post
    If it's wet, Hamilton will take a new engine
    I was thinking the same thing

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  23. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperStripes View Post
    If it's wet, Hamilton will take a new engine
    Why would this be


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  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by mav112 View Post
    Why would this be


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    Best chance of making up places. Which is why Verstappen took it last time.

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  25. #275
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    Well, as expected Hamilton is taking a new ICE, so will take a 10 place penalty.

    Watching FP1 and FP2 he certainly seems to have pace on both the soft and medium tyres. Max on the other hand seemed to have a car that wasn’t behaving quite as it should.

    Leclerc looked racy as did Bottas (both of whom were quicker than the RBR’s). Interesting, especially if the weather remains changeable,

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  26. #276
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    A very interesting race again. Liberty (and the weather) are serving up some real treats for us.

    Firstly many congratulations to Bottas for doing his job perfectly - no fuss, no muss and to RBR for securing a 2nd and 3rd. LeClerc also did well driving that boat of car to 4th.

    As for Lewis, drove perfectly, took his time, picked up places with very little risk and without the need to force anyone off the track. In fact the lack of safety cars, was something all drivers should be very proud of, especially in those conditions. Alas certainly not the result Hamilton hoped for.

    Now we could blame Hamilton for not coming in sooner and getting new tyres, we could blame Mercedes effectively giving him a 3 line whip to pit with only 11 laps to go, meaning he lost 2 places, but what’s the point. Had it rained in the final 10 laps Hamilton might not have even finished had he stayed on his old tyres, had it stayed dry and he had remained on his old tyres then he might have got third. Such are the racing gods.

    But what we did see was that Bottas effectively drove away from Max, on a track thought to favour RBR, which perhaps is an indication that Mercedes are getting their normal end of year pace. This hopefully will make the rest of season just as close. Exciting stuff. My one concern is that when Max has a lead in the WDC he has demonstrated a rather “liberal” way of treating Hamilton on track. We shall see.

    Next stop America. Yeehah!

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  27. #277
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    And finally we have arrived at Austin Texas. An excellent test for the drivers (IMHO) and hopefully a race with little chance of rain. (I do like a bit of rain, but after Spa, Monza and Turkey it would be nice to see some head to head racing).

    Redbull started the week with being “suspicious” about the Mercedes increase in in performance, but have since back tracked. Rosberg has suggested Hamilton is the “best of all time” - a BOAT, queue a meltdown in the interweb - mostly from Alonso/Max fans. Both of which no doubt provided excellent click bait for those publishing these views.

    Anywhoo regarding the race. Tyres choice will be C2,C3 and C4. Weather is set to be dry, with an outside chance of rain.
    Of the 8 previous races in Austin, Hamilton has won 5 (4 for Mercedes) Bottas 1, Vettel 1 (RBR) and Kimi 1 (Ferrari). Max has secured a 2nd and 3rd, so perhaps this might be his year. Personally I fancy the Mercedes to score another 1-2, but who knows.

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  28. #278
    Hopefully a good race this weekend.
    Regarding Mercedes new found pace; I wonder if they had a reliability issue with their ICE that meant they kept it turned down? I suggest that they now have a cure for it and can subsequently run the whole PU harder, thus they can increase their downforce and voila, quick Merc again.
    Bottas taking two PU’s and Hamilton an ICE, with Toto not ruling out a further penalty suggests that whatever they have found, they are confident it gives them a significant benefit.

  29. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichS View Post
    Hopefully a good race this weekend.
    Regarding Mercedes new found pace; I wonder if they had a reliability issue with their ICE that meant they kept it turned down? I suggest that they now have a cure for it and can subsequently run the whole PU harder, thus they can increase their downforce and voila, quick Merc again.
    Bottas taking two PU’s and Hamilton an ICE, with Toto not ruling out a further penalty suggests that whatever they have found, they are confident it gives them a significant benefit.

    Not sure about the PU tweaking, but there is a lot of talk about Mercedes having something which stalls the defuser. A sort of active aero device, but one that complies to FIA rules. It certainly seems to have got Horner worked up. Brundle also suggested that the Mercedes has got louder, but I cannot think what changes Mercedes might have done there given the exhaust and turbo units are “token” units.

    Given the high temps and tyre deg, it’s looking like a 2 stop race which might favour Mercedes, but the strategy will be dependant upon qualifying - especially as Bottas's is getting a 5 place penalty. Massive pressure on Perez to get in front of him.

    Should be another great race. If Mercedes get a one/two then the WCC is pretty much done and dusted.
    But I am looking forward to seeing how the McLaren and Ferrari battle develops.

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  30. #280
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    WOW, just WOW what a weekend for Lewis.

    Cheats don’t win Max 🤬

  31. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by g40steve View Post
    WOW, just WOW what a weekend for Lewis.

    Cheats don’t win Max 🤬
    That was a great race. I think max was very lucky not to be penilised with his "race" antics. Bottas was a disappointing start.

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  32. #282
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    FIA ruining F1 for the fans, Merc to see stewards because LH undid his belt on the cool down lap to enable him to wave the Brazilian flag 🤬

  33. #283
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    One of Lewis’s greatest races, comfortably won from 10th place!

  34. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by subseastu View Post
    That was a great race. I think max was very lucky not to be penilised with his "race" antics. Bottas was a disappointing start.

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    For me max clearly ran him of the track, even whilst of the track he kept pushing him out,

    And did they ever get to the bottom of that rear wing issue of Lewis’s car?


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  35. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellsy_79 View Post
    For me max clearly ran him of the track, even whilst of the track he kept pushing him out,

    And did they ever get to the bottom of that rear wing issue of Lewis’s car?


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    Unfortunately the stewards thought the opposite. I think he did but that doesn't matter.

    The rear wing thing seems to be an over step to me.

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  36. #286
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    What a drive from LH44, 25 places gained, Botha’s didn’t have a patch on him.

    Verstappen really is pushing Lewis to new levels. Would love to see Hamilton win that 8th title to pull clear of Schumacher but also this will be his most deserved and hard fought against a true competitor.

    Next season is a lottery as to who interprets the new aero rules the best and will walk the title.

  37. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperStripes View Post
    Next season is a lottery as to who interprets the new aero rules the best and will walk the title.
    Mercedes are supposedly using last years tech as this year is all about developing a stonking car for next years new rules..

  38. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Mercedes are supposedly using last years tech as this year is all about developing a stonking car for next years new rules..
    But don’t forget what Brawn did in 2009. No one saw that coming.

  39. #289
    Amazing race and weekend, I was totally gripped throughout the sprint and main race.

    Shocking decisions from the FIA though, how can that not be a penalty for Max, not only did he push Lewis off, he didn't even make the corner himself!

    Max currently has a free pass to force other drivers off the road, I suspect he'll cash that in again in the remaining races.

  40. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Max currently has a free pass to force other drivers off the road, I suspect he'll cash that in again in the remaining races.
    That was pretty much Martin Brundle’s view. Max is clearly the best Red Bull driver and has incredible pace and talent, but the red mist is strong in him. How many times this year has he used all of the track with an opponent on the outside? Too many, but he never gets saddled with having to leave a car width for competitors.
    That has to be one of Hamilton’s greatest weekends. He and the car were on another level. I knew he would get pulled up for the harness loosening, but I guess he won’t care as long as there is no racing penalty.
    The Mercedes DRS issue was a plus 0.2mm in the opening (i.e. 8.7mm instead of maximum 8.5mm). Small margins make all the difference. In terms of performance, probably negligible gain, but that is not the point.

  41. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichS View Post
    That was pretty much Martin Brundle’s view. Max is clearly the best Red Bull driver and has incredible pace and talent, but the red mist is strong in him. How many times this year has he used all of the track with an opponent on the outside? Too many, but he never gets saddled with having to leave a car width for competitors.
    That has to be one of Hamilton’s greatest weekends. He and the car were on another level. I knew he would get pulled up for the harness loosening, but I guess he won’t care as long as there is no racing penalty.
    The Mercedes DRS issue was a plus 0.2mm in the opening (i.e. 8.7mm instead of maximum 8.5mm). Small margins make all the difference. In terms of performance, probably negligible gain, but that is not the point.
    It would have been interesting to see the onboard view to see how much Verstappen opened up the steering.

  42. #292

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    It would have been interesting to see the onboard view to see how much Verstappen opened up the steering.

    https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...ssing-footage/

    Would have been nice for the decision makers too........frankly ridiculous that Max got away with that and the weaving on the straight too.

    But pretty much par for the course for MV and the whining RBR boys from Milton Keynes......

  43. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellsy_79 View Post
    For me max clearly ran him of the track, even whilst of the track he kept pushing him out,

    And did they ever get to the bottom of that rear wing issue of Lewis’s car?


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    Ref the rear wing issue. It seems that there was a 0.2mm gap, on one side of the rear wing aperture, which didn’t exist at the start of qualifying hence wasn’t picked up the stewards. Toto believes that the problem occurred during the qualification session, and was most likely caused by debris. it’s also very unlikely that it would have caused any performance gain. In fact actually the opposite.

    Mercedes requested that although the car in Parc Ferme they should be allowed to replace/repair the rear wing (just ad RBR had in the previous 3 races). The stewards did request that the wing be replaced, but that Hamilton should also be DSQ from qualifying, hence had to start at the back of the qualifying race. He would then have to serve his 5 place grid penalty in the main race for his engine replacement. Interestingly the stewards have yet to return the rear wing to Mercedes - make of that what you like.

    Regarding the actual racing - epic performance by Hamilton - effectively starting 25th and winning. As for Max running Hamilton off track, it’s interesting that Max’s onboard camera footage has not yet been released - again make of that what you like. As for Max’s response to getting a black/white flag for weaving, again you cam make of that what you like.

    Speaking personally I found Max’s behaviour and attitude over the entire weekend very poor and he really should know better. I also think that Max made a deliberate attempt to take Hamilton out, especially as a DNF for both of them would actually have helped Max. He missed or Hamilton was just a bit to smart to let it happen - this time! A lack of a penalty will only encourage Max to have another go especially if Hamilton is attempting to overtake him. Senna/Prost, Schumy/Hill and Schumy/Vilenenues all over again. It would be a shame if Max got disqualified like Schumy did.

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  44. #294
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    If the Merc is that fast with the new engine turned up to the max, maybe Merc can take an engine penalty every race for the next 3 races, start in 5th every time on Soft tyres and win every race and get fastest lap. Then even if Max gets 2nd each race, the LH is champ.

  45. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperStripes View Post
    If the Merc is that fast with the new engine turned up to the max, maybe Merc can take an engine penalty every race for the next 3 races, start in 5th every time on Soft tyres and win every race and get fastest lap. Then even if Max gets 2nd each race, the LH is champ.
    It’s a workable strategy which would leave MV having to do the same thus having the main protagonists starting in 5th and 6th.

    It will definitely make for great racing.

  46. #296
    Why only 5 place penalty last time it was 10


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  47. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by mav112 View Post
    Why only 5 place penalty last time it was 10


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    Lewis only took a single power unit component (ice) so 5 place penalty. 10 places for more than one PU component above the season allocation at a single event. At least, I think that is correct.

  48. #298
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    I think he got an opportunity to make up 5 positions during the sprint race the day before, the sprint really helped out Hamilton.

  49. #299

    2021 F1 Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ellsy_79 View Post
    I think he got an opportunity to make up 5 positions during the sprint race the day before, the sprint really helped out Hamilton.
    He made up 15 places in the sprint, P20 - P5. Five place penalty for the new ICE put him P10 on the GP grid. Then P10 - P1 in the GP.

  50. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    It’s a workable strategy which would leave MV having to do the same thus having the main protagonists starting in 5th and 6th.

    It will definitely make for great racing.
    Would be very interesting to see if Mercedes took that option, as you say seems workable for them.

    No idea whether true but, Horner was saying over the race weekend that the Honda engine does not suffer anywhere near the levels of power degradation that the Mercedes engine does through use, as such a new Honda power unit restores reliability for them but not much in the way of performance as that metric would remain broadly similar. Horner was insinuating that the power increases of a new Honda power unit would not match those increased percentages seen by Mercedes.


    I'm only surmising here based on Horner's comments but RBR following a replacement power unit strategy, would be like giving up track position to Mercedes on fast circuits, who would then go on to overtake the RBR during the race due to their additional power gains?

    ETA and as an after thought, I guess changing settings before a race weekend and dialling things up to 11 may level that deficit, but he didn't talk about that in the interviews I saw.
    Last edited by dustybottoms; 16th November 2021 at 10:42.

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