Reply With QuoteHamilton in pole for tomorrow. Max and Red bull look like they have no answers at the moment.
Good job that post this decision the race is at a circuit with huge tarmac run offs, expect overtaking attempts on the outside fully off the race track.
Hamilton in pole for tomorrow. Max and Red bull look like they have no answers at the moment.
Take Hamilton out seems to be their only strategy. Very sad, very desperate but it unfortunately it appears to be true.Originally Posted by ellsy_79
Outstanding qualifying lap by Hamilton (reminded me a bit of Singapore 2018). Max was hampered a bit by yellow flags, but he was already slower in sector 1, so I don’t think it made any difference, Bottas on the other hand might have got 2nd, but I think chose to be 3rd, so gets to start on the clean part of the track and will benefit from Hamilton’s tow. Great drive by Gasly (who continues to impress) and Alonso.
When interviewed afterwards Horner finally admitted that the RBR and Mercedes straight line speeds were very similar (so we can forget the rear wing excuse for this week) and that if Max sees a gap he will “go for it”. The question however remains will he attempt to do it fairly. Personally given Mercedes advantage in Qatar, I wouldn’t bet against a Senna/Prost moment, especially following the FIA’s ruling earlier this week. I really hope not, as it would blight a great season and confirm Max’s nickname for ever.
Finally for those interested Lewis didnt use his Brazil ICE for qualifying, the team instead chose to use the ICE from Turkey and US GP’s. I think the Brazil ICE will be held back for SA where he can really use the additional speed.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Thanks Andy, thats interesting.
I see max has been called by the stewards for not respecting a double yellow. Going by past actions he will probably be given a bottle of champagne.
Last edited by awright101; 20th November 2021 at 22:33.
I must admit I thought that Max must have been close to the Gasly incident, but it looked as if Gasly was behind Max coming out of the pit lane, so assumed Mac was clear when he lost his wing.
But I very much doubt Max will get a penalty (unlike Hamilton who got a 3 place penalty for not slowing down sufficiently under a single yellow in Austria last year), because there are most likely scared of Karen Horner (AKA the Whinger Spice)
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Its not just Max, Bottas and Sainz have also been called in (but for failing to respect single yellows), thus making it difficult for the FIA to brush it away.
Vettel got a 5 grid drop and 3 points for failing to respect double yellows in one race, but a 3 grid drop is typical for single yellows.
If that all happens the revised grid would look like something like
Hamilton
Gasly
Alonso
Norris
Bottas
Yuki
Ocon
Max
Vettel
Sainz
it would certainly spice things up.
if true can you imagine the “Pierre, this is Christian” conversation :)
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
That line up would be fantastic to watch
The FIA will be fair with the Max yellow flag incident. I forecast a 10 place grid penalty, suspended for 3 races....
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-...d-bull-claims/
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Very interesting article, thanks for sharing.
Good to see some cutting through the BS being spouted.
Five place grid penalty for MV!
Apologies chaps. Looks as if Sainz avoided a penalty. No idea why if he did ignore the flags, but in fairness he did slow down (as did Bottas).
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Bottas really is the worst team mate Hamilton could have. He is just incompetent. Now a free ride for Verstappen to stop and do a fastest lap whereas if Bottas wasn't so garbage in a car Bottas would have been able to prevent that by being much closer
Actually Rosberg was the worst. He beat him!
I thought it was reliability and team decision making.
That’s how I remember it
Driver of the day - Alonso. The old dog can still hunt.
Dog of the day - Bottas. Fair play to Toto for keeping his sh*t together, but honestly he once again proved he cannot actually race. Now I know some people will say, he suffered a tyre blow out because Mercedes left him out to long. However they need to ask themselves WHY Mercedes had to leave him out so long - the answer is because of his rubbish start and inability to overtake in the first 1/3 of the race. Rant over.
Not the best race, but it was pretty tense (for me anyway) and it went by pretty quickly (a good sign). Another Masterclass by Hamilton, a great drive from Max despite his penalty, but Alonso was the stand out.
So on to another new track in SA. If we see a repeat of today’s podium, we will have a 2 point gap going into the final race. How exciting will that be.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Bottas’s bad start and poor overtaking skills threw away an easy 3rd place possibly second with the speed of that Merc.
Week after week bottas makes a pigs ear of he’s starts, not a great racer at all
the rivalry has really made it more interesting this year. its been divisive too, which makes it even better in my view.
someone pointed me at Jos Verstappens Wiki page - the controversy section, which was a bit of a shock!
He’s dad jos is a bit of a naughty boy
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A long history of domestic violence is slightly more than naughty unfortunately!
More interesting???? Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn! F1 is just a huge marketing exercise now and the sandbagging to make it "interesting" becomes so obvious when you examine a bit mote closely. I can't believe that folks are still taken in by it all.
Not just domestic violence, he and his mate also fractured a guy’s skull, at I believe a race met. A proper charmer, and 100% bully boy.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Just a brief new update.
Hamilton was using his old engine in Qatar because Toto has promised the “spicy Brazilian engine for the next two races”. No doubt with full party mode on.
Horner got called into see the Stewards and was basically told to STFU because he was starting to bring the sport into disrepute. He of course apologised, while taking the opportunity to once again whinge about Mercedes rear wing and how unfair that Max got penalised for failing to slow down under yellow, even if he didn’t. The man cannot help himself.
As for Gasly, it seems that he did receive the “don’t hold Max up” call. Not surprising really, but it leaves a bitter taste. Fighting one team is bad enough, but two, whilst pretty much on your own, is really tough. I’m surprised that Toto hasn’t had a word with AM, McLaren, Williams just to level the pitch.
SA should be epic. A DNF for Hamilton will effectively give the title to Max, and a DNF for Max could see Hamilton marching to his 8th.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Look forward to the stock car race tactics then eh?
Really ? With no challenger from lights to flag.....A real masterclass in overtaking tail enders.
It makes the Schumacher years look like great entertainment.
We’re you living under a rock in 2009, Honda poured a lot off money into the perfect aero package and brawn inherited a monster of a car, it was a shock to nobody in f1 how good they were, Honda had the biggest r&d budget and were gearing up for a championship push before they decided to withdraw
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Very balanced view and I’m looking forward to it, Hamilton (love him or not) was amazing in the last 2 weekends but Brazil especially for the race. Qatar though.. where did that qualifying come from, kind of set the tone, got a great showdown in store, SA will be the clincher because I think the Mercedes would have the edge in the last event at ABD
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Could Horner be fighting for his job? By the sounds of it, Mercedes are better placed for the next season. So if RB don’t do it this year, it could be a good few years away. And that would be on top of a season where it was his to lose.
No I wasn’t living under a rock
2000 they finished 5th
2001 6th
2002 8th
2003 5th
2004 2nd
2005 6th
2007 8th
2009 9th
Hardly leading the field were they. They were getting worse season on season.
It was a loophole in the regs that Ross exploited with the double diffuser that gave them the advantage. Other teams protested it but it was allowed.
They did a fantastic job of shoehorning the Merc engine into the back of the car at short notice.
They won six out of the first seven races, but only won two more for the rest of the season. The other teams were quickly catching up.
Yes, no one expected it, certainly not before winter testing.
As far as I can determine Bottas made his debut as a Formula 1 driver in 2013 and came 17th in the World Drivers' Championship.
In the following years he came 4th, 5th, 8th, 3rd, 5th, 2nd, 2nd and this year he is currently 3rd in the Championship. How did he do that if he cannot race?
Yes, he lies 2nd in the list of drivers with the Most career podiums without a World Championship, but that list includes the likes of Rubens Barrichello, David Coulthard, Max Verstappen, Mark Webber and Felipe Massa. We know the circumstances that prevented some of them winning the Championship. Where do they sit in your estimation of "great racers"?
Strange comment given the great season we're having. Yes it wasn't the best race on Sunday but have you ever re-watched a "classic" race from the "good old days"? It wasn't uncommon for the leader to drive off into a 1 minute lead and lap nearly the whole field.
Having won 7 almost on the bounce with by far and away the best car on the grid and 2nd rate team mates only to beat, I don't think so really.
Even stranger answer. Reggie was responding to Andyg's "Masterclass" comment about Hamilton's race. Therefore the comment applied to the Qatar GP, not the season. Furthermore, he used those Schumi years as a standard for boring races, so your comment makes even less sense.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
> No special tyres that aren't available to any other teams
> No number one drivers contract or extreme team orders before the championship position was clear (number 1 driver only by being the fastest)
> No authority to overrule the teams choice on teammates
> No unlimited testing at your teams own test track
> Teammates who were well rated beforehand
> Classic inter team battles and controversy (2014 & 2016)
> Beating multiple world champions and highly rated drivers from other teams in competitive cars (Vettel at Ferrari and Max this year)
So not that comparable then really.
You’re also forgetting beating his teammate Alonso in his first season and only losing the championship to Kimi due to making a rookie error on entering the pits in the final race of the season.
The only season where he hasn’t beaten his teammate was 2016 and had Rosberg not driven him off the track in Spain (If I remember correctly), he would have won that one too.
I think technically he won 7 WDC in 14 years. He won his first in 2008 and his second in 2014. Hardly on the bounce is it. I would however accept he has won 4 on the bounce. Which is actually one less than the 5 Micheal won on the bounce between 2000 and 2004.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Button beat him comfortably in 2011.
I think there is a lot more to the 2007 season than just a rookie error to be honest. It was in the middle of the Spygate Scandal remember. Going in to a China, Hamilton had a 17 point lead over Kimi and a 12 point lead over Alonso. It finished with Kimi beating both of McLaren drivers by a single point in Brazil. What were the odds. Had Hamilton finished in the points in China or had come 6th of better in Brazil he would have won. He would have won, easily. Had Alonso caught and passed Massa in Brazil he would have won.
However rumour has it that the season was a fixed between the teams before the China race, because Ferrari had basically told the FIA and McLaren they they intended to sue over Spygate, unless their driver won the WDC. They had already been gifted the WCC because McLaren had be disqualified.
If true, I don’t think Hamilton was aware of this in China, hence his disappointment at the very very very late pit call, by which time his tyres were down to the canvas but I think he knew in Brazil. Btw China was his first and only DNF in 2007.
No idea whether it’s true, but it does makes a bit more sense that what actually happened.
Ref Nico and Barcelona, last year he admitted that he was in the wrong engine mode, which was why Hamilton got the attempt of the overtake. He still doesn’t seem to accept he slammed the door and forced Hamilton on the grass though - bless. But what really did for Hamilton that year was his DNF in Malaysia following the fitment of a brand new engine. Again people can draw their own conclusions on that.
It was a bloody great season all the same.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Very true, but Hamilton beat him in 2010 and 2012. But this provides a better picture.
Faster qualifying time: Hamilton 44 / Button 14
Poles: Hamilton 9 / Button 1
Front rows: Hamilton: 23 / Button 9
Races
Wins: Hamilton 10 / Button 8
Podiums: Hamilton 22 / Button 25
Points finishes: Hamilton 45 / Button 47
DNFs: Hamilton 13 / Button 8
Best race result (inc DNFs): Hamilton 32 / Button 26
Ahead in two-car finish: Hamilton 24 / Button 13
Championship
Overall points: Hamilton 657 / Button 672
Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1
Highest championship placing: Hamilton 4th (2010, 2012) / Button 2nd (2011)
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Andy, read my quote in its correct context please. Dave said Lewis hadn’t lost to another team member other than Nico. I corrected that.
Just because I corrected it, it doesn’t mean I have a downer on Lewis, I don’t.
Despite me predicting back in June this year that Max would win this years championship, I’d be delighted if Lewis won again, just to shut Horner and Max up.
You are not Lewis’ press agent, for Christ sake don’t take everything even remotely negative about Lewis as an attack.
All I was offering was a bit of context. That is all, so perhaps you shouldn't assume I was taking your post as a negative towards Hamilton (especially given it was fact).
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
But it wasn’t needed Andy. Everyone and his dog knows what Hamilton has achieved.
I was simply correcting an inaccurate comment.
I was making reference to this season, he’s starts are consistently awful and he’s defending against max have been non existent, overall should be doing much better with the car he has.
i agree. Bottas is a great driver. He is very capable during qualifying (he has had 20 pole positions) and if he gets a start has demonstrated on numerous occasions he has the ability to win from the front - very Vettelisque in that respect.
His problem however is that he isn’t a great racer. He is either to cautious or simply lacks the confidence in himself or the car to attempt those 60/40 type of overtakes, even against slower cars, and consequently finds himself following the car in front whilst waiting for the “perfect” opportunity to pass.
I speak from experience on this, as I can be quite fast on track, but lack the x-factor to get a pass done in a timely manner. Frustrating.
Hopefully Bottas will be able to find his mojo once he joins Alfa, but somehow I doubt it.
In other news Marko is predicting that the Mercedes engine in SA will be down on power. Shocker. But then so will Max’s. Actually the more I think about it the more I think Max will have to take a new engine. His current engine has already done 6 races and another 2 will be putting it right on the bubble. Especially as Brazil included a Spring Race, so another 20-25 minutes on the engine.
It’s all building up to a great Climax (or Cry-Max)
Also that the predicted average speed around the SA track is 155mph. Could be a car killer.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Just heard that Sir Frank Williams has died at the age of 79.
Never met him, but a friend of mine worked at Williams, and always had very positive tales of Sir Frank and what a decent bloke he was. Terrible shame about his accident and spending 35 years in a wheelchair, not that it seemed to hold him back.
RIP Sir Frank, and hopefully we will see the Williams team name continue for many years to come.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Truly sad him passing away.
Great team owner & so influential within F1, the list of drivers, engineers etc that have been part of the williams family contains some of the best.
Growing up as a kid I got to experience the Williams environment 1st hand due to their partnership with accenture, some memorable experiences on GP weekends. They always had a family feeling about them, unlike some of the leading teams now.
Really hope the williams name is kept within F1 & they can back to winning to retain his legacy.
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Back in the early/mid-80s I was fortunate enough to meet Frank Williams, Keke Rosberg and an amazing team of engineers and PR people. They were sponsored then by ICI and my father was very senior within ICI and got us a visit and, unbeknown to me, arranged for me to drive the (IIRC) 1982 Championship winning car in 1984 when I was at university. My overriding memory was how down to earth and pleasant everyone was whilst a 19/20 year old was dicking around in one of their prized possessions as well as how utterly ill-equipped I was to exploit anything of the car's capability.
RIP Sir Frank Williams.
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