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Thread: 2021 F1 Thread.

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Well, if the track was deja vu, then so was the race.

    Another processional affair. Max disappearing in to the next post code by lap 5 (after the safety car), a nice cameo between Hamilton and Norris, before the pit stops. Clearly Hamilton’s car was rather poorly hence enabling Bottas to once again earn his money and another excellent drive Norris.

    Once again Russell suffered another nil point, but he drove well, as did Sainz and Danny R. Sergio was a menace to others and himself and was lucky not to get black flagged. On the topic of penalties, was I the only one who was thinking Derek Warwick was getting paid by the number of penalties he was handing out.

    Thank god we are are done with the RedBull Ring and everyone can move onto Silverstone. Hopefully we might get back to some racing.
    I thought it was a much better race this week. Plenty of racing, just not right at the front.

  2. #152
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    Well here we are again and F1 is coming home.

    it’s a “Sprint” weekend, so the only “Qualification” is for the Sprint race (17 laps). The finishing positions of the Sprint defining the starting positions for the feature race. So 3rd place in the sprint = 3 place on the grid for the feature. Plus the top 3 finishers in the Sprint get a Brucie’s bonus of 3 point for the winner, 2 for second and 1 for 3rd.

    I must admit I was a bit sceptical, but today’s sprint qualifying was epic. Only one tyre choice available to all the teams (Red). One set of tyres/qualifying session. Plus no fiddling with the car (except to change tyres/pressures) once qualification has started..Once over the cars are then locked away in Parc Ferme.

    Proper eyeballs out and well worth a watch on C4 if you haven’t already seen it.

    After the Sprint race, the teams will be allowed another Practice session (Sunday morning) in order to set their cars up for the feature race (or Grand Prix as it used to be called). But grid positions are already defined by the Sprint race.

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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Well here we are again and F1 is coming home.

    it’s a “Sprint” weekend, so the only “Qualification” is for the Sprint race (17 laps). The finishing positions of the Sprint defining the starting positions for the feature race. So 3rd place in the sprint = 3 place on the grid for the feature. Plus the top 3 finishers in the Sprint get a Brucie’s bonus of 3 point for the winner, 2 for second and 1 for 3rd.

    I must admit I was a bit sceptical, but today’s sprint qualifying was epic. Only one tyre choice available to all the teams (Red). One set of tyres/qualifying session. Plus no fiddling with the car (except to change tyres/pressures) once qualification has started..Once over the cars are then locked away in Parc Ferme.

    Proper eyeballs out and well worth a watch on C4 if you haven’t already seen it.

    After the Sprint race, the teams will be allowed another Practice session (Sunday morning) in order to set their cars up for the feature race (or Grand Prix as it used to be called). But grid positions are already defined by the Sprint race.
    I cannot find that session on Sunday's schedule...see link.

    Lest there be any confusion, see also F1 Pirelli Hot Laps.

  4. #154
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    Looking forward to the sprint race, should just be flat out the whole time.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    I cannot find that session on Sunday's schedule...see link.

    Lest there be any confusion, see also F1 Pirelli Hot Laps.

    interesting, because there seems to be a bit of confusion. The schedule you posted shows Sprint Qualification taking place today at 16.30, when Qualification had already taken place.

    I found this https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2...Timetable.html which may be more accurate, but you are right - no additional practice on Sunday, which is a change to what was originally planned. This means that the only opportunity for the teams to set the car up for Sunday, was the single Practice session on Friday. Qualifying for the Sprint wasn’t much help because it only used the soft tyres.

    I can’t imagine the teams were very happy with this - very limited running on the other tyres. Plus does that this mean the cars cannot be tweaked once the Sprint race has completed. I assume so, simply on the basis that some cars might need changes as a result of damage which occurs during the Sprint, but don’t know.

    So many questions, but it certainly is quite exciting.

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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalaMD View Post
    Looking forward to the sprint race, should just be flat out the whole time.

    Its assumes the tyres can handle 17 laps flat out. Silverstone eats tyres - just look at last year. Possible one stopper :)

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  7. #157
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    There is a practice session at midday today, which is Practice 2 and the final practice. So one less than normal.

    Looking forward to the sprint race, let's hope it is not a procession, have a feeling it won't be! I guess for next year's car design it will work well as we could see a lot more overtaking.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    interesting, because there seems to be a bit of confusion. The schedule you posted shows Sprint Qualification taking place today at 16.30, when Qualification had already taken place.

    I found this https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2...Timetable.html which may be more accurate, but you are right - no additional practice on Sunday, which is a change to what was originally planned. This means that the only opportunity for the teams to set the car up for Sunday, was the single Practice session on Friday. Qualifying for the Sprint wasn’t much help because it only used the soft tyres.

    I can’t imagine the teams were very happy with this - very limited running on the other tyres. Plus does that this mean the cars cannot be tweaked once the Sprint race has completed. I assume so, simply on the basis that some cars might need changes as a result of damage which occurs during the Sprint, but don’t know.

    So many questions, but it certainly is quite exciting.
    Re the highlight...see your link for: Formula 1 Practice 2 12:00 - 13:00...on Saturday, ie before the sprint qualifying.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    interesting, because there seems to be a bit of confusion. The schedule you posted shows Sprint Qualification taking place today at 16.30, when Qualification had already taken place.

    I found this https://www.formula1.com/en/racing/2...Timetable.html which may be more accurate, but you are right - no additional practice on Sunday, which is a change to what was originally planned. This means that the only opportunity for the teams to set the car up for Sunday, was the single Practice session on Friday. Qualifying for the Sprint wasn’t much help because it only used the soft tyres.

    I can’t imagine the teams were very happy with this - very limited running on the other tyres. Plus does that this mean the cars cannot be tweaked once the Sprint race has completed. I assume so, simply on the basis that some cars might need changes as a result of damage which occurs during the Sprint, but don’t know.

    So many questions, but it certainly is quite exciting.
    Just to follow up. I am now totally confused.

    There is a second practice session today (before the Sprint race), but I am struggling to understand why? given that the cars are in Parc Ferme so no fettling is allowed. Al, the teams can do is run the cars with different fuel weights (why, because they will be brimmed for the GP), different tyre sets/pressures and to enable the drivers to get there eye in prior Sprint. Surely a better option would have been to leave the cars alone and run P2 tomorrow morning - when not in Park Ferme. - which was what was originally proposed). Currently they are allowing practice AFTER qualifying for the Sprint.

    All very odd, but I suppose it’s a leaning process for all.

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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Just to follow up. I am now totally confused.

    There is a second practice session today (before the Sprint race), but I am struggling to understand why? given that the cars are in Parc Ferme so no fettling is allowed. Al, the teams can do is run the cars with different fuel weights (why, because they will be brimmed for the GP), different tyre sets/pressures and to enable the drivers to get there eye in prior Sprint. Surely a better option would have been to leave the cars alone and run P2 tomorrow morning - when not in Park Ferme. - which was what was originally proposed). Currently they are allowing practice AFTER qualifying for the Sprint.

    All very odd, but I suppose it’s a leaning process for all.
    Try this link...Everything you need to know about the F1 Sprint format...and see if it helps. There is even a section headed 'How does Parc Ferme work?'

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Its assumes the tyres can handle 17 laps flat out. Silverstone eats tyres - just look at last year. Possible one stopper :)
    Good point, I hope not though!

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Try this link...Everything you need to know about the F1 Sprint format...and see if it helps. There is even a section headed 'How does Parc Ferme work?'
    As with all links to formula1.com, it’s behind a paywall!

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    As with all links to formula1.com, it’s behind a paywall!
    This link has much the same information.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Its assumes the tyres can handle 17 laps flat out. Silverstone eats tyres - just look at last year. Possible one stopper :)
    Make that a zero stopper?

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    As with all links to formula1.com, it’s behind a paywall!
    No paywall for me. I'm using Brave browser on Android.

  16. #166
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    That was…..ok I guess. Not sure if it’s worth changing permanently.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalaMD View Post
    That was…..ok I guess. Not sure if it’s worth changing permanently.
    Ok but not exceptional. Adds spice to Friday without spoiling Saturday though.

  18. #168
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    Sprint race was ok but I think the grid for the GP should still be set by qualifying rather than the sprint race.

    There is just too much at stake during the sprint that could affect the GP grid and the points on offer aren't worth the risk if they impact on the greater points available in the GP itself.

    You may as well have this GP result determine the grid for the Hungarian GP.

  19. #169
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    I was there today with my 14 year old son for his birthday treat.

    I'm not an F1 fan but he is, he is buzzing from the day, and I must say seeing some live racing really made the day. For sure the fans there enjoyed it, as did we.

  20. #170
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    The normal Qualifying session - especially the final 20 mins. - is much more fun to watch. More tension, more excitement than this. All the excitement today was compressed into the first half of the first lap.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    The normal Qualifying session - especially the final 20 mins. - is much more fun to watch. More tension, more excitement than this. All the excitement today was compressed into the first half of the first lap.
    Isn’t this a bonus though because they still have the normal qualifying albeit it’s for the sprint race not the main race.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    Sprint race was ok but I think the grid for the GP should still be set by qualifying rather than the sprint race.

    There is just too much at stake during the sprint that could affect the GP grid and the points on offer aren't worth the risk if they impact on the greater points available in the GP itself.

    You may as well have this GP result determine the grid for the Hungarian GP.
    I have watched F1 since the late 60's and I disagree with you, I liked the new format. It was not a sprint race, it was sprint qualifying which means two qualifying sessions and it is great for the paying fans. However, I am not sure about the 18.00 start time for the GP itself. I like the afternoon start.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    I have watched F1 since the late 60's and I disagree with you, I liked the new format. It was not a sprint race, it was sprint qualifying which means two qualifying sessions and it is great for the paying fans. However, I am not sure about the 18.00 start time for the GP itself. I like the afternoon start.
    The GP is at 15:00...


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  24. #174

  25. #175
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    If you only watch one GP this year. Watch this one.

    Wow!

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  26. #176
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    Is it correct that Max's car slipped on the sand falling out of the bags on Lewis' car?

  27. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by tixntox View Post
    Is it correct that Max's car slipped on the sand falling out of the bags on Lewis' car?
    Whoosh straight over my head

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by awright101 View Post
    Whoosh straight over my head
    Mercedes "sandbagging" to make F1 more "interesting"!

  29. #179
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    Perez's spin in the sprint will ensure that all future sprints will be no risk processions.
    It made RBs weekend a total disaster, the only thing they could do on Sunday was send him out at the end on new tyres to deny Merdedes the fastest lap extra point (which he couldn't actually claim for himself as he was placed too low)

  30. #180
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    I agree, the risk / reward won’t be worth it for most of the field.

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Perez's spin in the sprint will ensure that all future sprints will be no risk processions.
    It made RBs weekend a total disaster, the only thing they could do on Sunday was send him out at the end on new tyres to deny Merdedes the fastest lap extra point (which he couldn't actually claim for himself as he was placed too low)

    Perez was less than impressed with the call because he thought he might get as far up the order to challenge possibly challenge Lando. So yes it stopped Hamilton/Mercedes getting a point, but it cost RBR possibly 10-12 points.

    Masi has given his opinion on the crash. Hamilton was deemed “predominantly” to blame because he could have “tucked in” to the corner to give Max more room. No mention of the acres of space available to Max on the outside though. My view was it was a racing incident, but following the resulting crash and Horner’s comments I fully understand why thd FIA had to punish Hamilton irrespective of the rights or wrongs of it.

    It was a shocking incident (thankfully Max was OK) but I am curious to hear why the RBR actually lost a rear wheel, especially given the damage to Hamilton car was minimal. He suffered a cracked rim (but the tyre did not deflate) and a loose tyre temp sensor (which they glued back), but the front wing/end plates were unscathed. Watching the incident again it actually looked as the wheel rim/tyre actually parted company with the centre of the wheel/hub nut assembly. Not good. Any info gratefully received.

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  32. #182
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    Following the events of Silverstone the show continues to Hungary for race 11 of the 23 race season (so still not even at the halfway point),

    Weather looks good and expected to be hot. As for tyres we have C2, C3 and C4 so slightly biased towards the harder end of the spectrum, although it’s not a track that destroys tyres so imagine most will start on the sofas before switch to the meds.

    Hopefully, now that RBR appeal for a bigger penalty to be given to Hamilton has been rejected, the focus can return to racing. That said, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if we saw another incident between Hamilton and Max, and I am sure the stewards will be watching very carefully.

    Best qualifying time in 2020 was 1.13.447.

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  33. #183
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    It has been my impression for a while that Verstappen has been leaning towards becoming the playground bully, asserting his "right to the racing line" more forcefully than anyone else dares on the track, and leaving everyone else to get out of his way, or make contact.
    To my mind their coming together at Silverstone was Hamilton deciding not to be pushed around. Not seeking the collision, but not avoiding it either.
    If he was seeking the collision, he could have slammed the door in Verstappen's face two turns earlier, when he was ahead, but he did not, he let Max keep the line.
    And it was mere chance that the collision benefitted Hamilton, it was equally likely that he would have ended up with race-ending damage.
    Red Bull's strident calling for more punishment has looked very odd since the race. People seemed to think the penalty was either appropriate, or too harsh. Only Red Bull thought it too lenient.
    Why?
    Because of the change in circumstances.
    Before now, with dominant Merceds cars, Max has been aggressive because he had nothing to lose. He had to gamble to get ahead.
    Now, his car is the best, he leads the championship and he has everything to lose, rather than to gain.
    It is now Hamilton that has to throw the dice a little more, recent races have proven that once the Red Bull is ahead, only failure can stop it.
    I am looking forward to more competetive racing, should be fun.
    D

  34. #184
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    Well, a interesting qualifying session to say the least.

    First the bad new. Mr Saturday failed to get out of Q1 for the first time in yonks. It most be so hard for George having to risk everything driving that dog around, but he at least got bragging rights over his team mate again.

    As for Q2 very interesting strategies were played out. The Mercedes started on the Meds and locked out the front. RBR were at risk of not getting into the top 10 so switched to the softs and it worked with Max leading the pack and Hamilton and Bottas being relegated to mid table. The Mercs did come out on a set of softs, but made zero effort to beat the times they made on meds. (I think they might have been conditioning their tyres for Q3. The outcome of all this will be RBR will start on softs (and will most likely will have to 2 stop) and Mercedes will start on mediums (most likely will be one stop).

    The first part of Q3 was a Mercedes masterclass. Hamilton out qualifying Bottas to lock out the front row. RBR locked out the second row, so will really need to make their softs work in the early part of the race if they want to make an impact, especially if it’s super hot weather like today. The second part of Q3 was quite amusing. As normal RBR followed Mercedes on track for there final runs but perhaps had forgotten Mercedes already had locked out pole. Hence the Mercedes drove slowly, painfully slowly. So much so that only Max made the line before the chequered flag. Checo didn’t even manage this. Suffice to say, no times were improved by the front runners, and Hamilton gets yet another pole.

    Qualifying time was 1.15.41 - so about 2 seconds off Hamilton’s time last year, which perhaps demonstrates how much the reg changes has impacted their performance.

    Other drivers worthy of note.

    Gasly 5th
    Norris 6th
    Leclerc 7th.

    Mick and Carlos have created a bit of overtime for the teams following there respective offs.

    Finally there was a lot of talk about people cheering Max’s accident (which seems to be actually unfounded based on video evidence) and Hamilton’s celebration following his win, with questions being asked about sportsmanship, etc. Well today while Hamilton was being interviewed, he was roundly booed by many of the spectators - not that he cared

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  35. #185
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    Yet another classic. It’s amazing what a bit a rain can do to spice up a race afternoon.

    Firstly the turn 1 incident. Defo Bottas fault. I think a 5 grid penalty in the next race was a bit harsh. (But I will no doubt be alone in thanking that). Very poor luck for every one else caught up in it, but I have little doubt that even without Bottas, that was an accident corner just waiting to happen in those conditions.

    As for the restart. Well that was one of the bizarre incidents I have every seen in F1 with only one car on the grid. Quite crazy. A better option might have been to wait another 5 minutes before the restart and allow everyone to change tires before going to the grid, but again no doubt I will be alone thinking that.

    The actual race was excellent, especially watching Hamilton slowly creeping back up through the grid. His dicing with Alonso towards the end was brilliant even if it verging on the reckless and even if it did cost Hamilton a possible race win. (For those claiming “it’s the car” his performance demonstrated exactly why it isn’t. Very few drivers have the skills necessary make a clean overtake of a 2 times WDC who is driving in a very quick car.

    As for the Ocon and Vettel battle, Seb was certainly pushing, but at no point did I think he would make a pass unless Ocon made a mistake and he didn’t. Kudos to both all the same for not taking each other off.

    Other notables.

    Kimi for taking out Mazepin in the pit lane and then getting in the way during the Alonso/Hamilton fight.
    Sainz who I though had a pretty good race and who managed to hold off Alonso in the final laps.
    Gasly for having an excellent race and for also nicking fastest lap.
    And both Williams drivers for both scoring points (I had doubts I would ever see the day again), but whilst Russell finished 9th, least we forget his team mate finished 8th Poor George, but at least he can say he beat Max
    Lando who was taken out by Bottas, and then punted Max into next week. Then getting back to pits before an unsafe release (which could have resulted in more licence points and might explain why the car was retired. That or the gearbox was damaged by Bottas). Not a great day for McLaren especially given Danny’s woeful performance. No idea what’s happening with him at moment, but his career is very much in the balance at the moment.

    All in all a most enjoyable day for pretty much everyone except McLaren and RedBull and their fans. Even more for RedBull who have only managed one point in the last two races.

    Summer break now (which will please my wife), but I am very much looking forward the 2021 Part 2. Everything still to play for.

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  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Yet another classic. It’s amazing what a bit a rain can do to spice up a race afternoon.

    Firstly the turn 1 incident. Defo Bottas fault. I think a 5 grid penalty in the next race was a bit harsh. (But I will no doubt be alone in thanking that). Very poor luck for every one else caught up in it, but I have little doubt that even without Bottas, that was an accident corner just waiting to happen in those conditions.

    As for the restart. Well that was one of the bizarre incidents I have every seen in F1 with only one car on the grid. Quite crazy. A better option might have been to wait another 5 minutes before the restart and allow everyone to change tires before going to the grid, but again no doubt I will be alone thinking that.

    The actual race was excellent, especially watching Hamilton slowly creeping back up through the grid. His dicing with Alonso towards the end was brilliant even if it verging on the reckless and even if it did cost Hamilton a possible race win. (For those claiming “it’s the car” his performance demonstrated exactly why it isn’t. Very few drivers have the skills necessary make a clean overtake of a 2 times WDC who is driving in a very quick car.

    As for the Ocon and Vettel battle, Seb was certainly pushing, but at no point did I think he would make a pass unless Ocon made a mistake and he didn’t. Kudos to both all the same for not taking each other off.

    Other notables.

    Kimi for taking out Mazepin in the pit lane and then getting in the way during the Alonso/Hamilton fight.
    Sainz who I though had a pretty good race and who managed to hold off Alonso in the final laps.
    Gasly for having an excellent race and for also nicking fastest lap.
    And both Williams drivers for both scoring points (I had doubts I would ever see the day again), but whilst Russell finished 9th, least we forget his team mate finished 8th Poor George, but at least he can say he beat Max
    Lando who was taken out by Bottas, and then punted Max into next week. Then getting back to pits before an unsafe release (which could have resulted in more licence points and might explain why the car was retired. That or the gearbox was damaged by Bottas). Not a great day for McLaren especially given Danny’s woeful performance. No idea what’s happening with him at moment, but his career is very much in the balance at the moment.

    All in all a most enjoyable day for pretty much everyone except McLaren and RedBull and their fans. Even more for RedBull who have only managed one point in the last two races.

    Summer break now (which will please my wife), but I am very much looking forward the 2021 Part 2. Everything still to play for.
    You forgot to mention that the RB squad did a wonderful thing during the red flag: the managed to get MV's car roadworthy again. And, overtaking with 'half a car' is quite something.

    Bottas started with his steering wheel not in the straight-ahead position. Then he did not manage to get away (his acceleration time to 200km/hr was significantly slower than all the others - was he in 1st gear where others started in 2nd?). Or did he want to prevent last year's start in Hungary?

    Indeed, RedBull only have managed one point in two races. Makes you wonder where that comes from.

  37. #187

    2021 F1 Thread.

    That must be some kind of record for Hamilton 1st to last in one Lap . Thats 2 wins from a pole restart this season hes made a hash of


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    Last edited by mav112; 1st August 2021 at 20:04.

  38. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    You forgot to mention that the RB squad did a wonderful thing during the red flag: the managed to get MV's car roadworthy again. And, overtaking with 'half a car' is quite something.

    Bottas started with his steering wheel not in the straight-ahead position. Then he did not manage to get away (his acceleration time to 200km/hr was significantly slower than all the others - was he in 1st gear where others started in 2nd?). Or did he want to prevent last year's start in Hungary?

    Indeed, RedBull only have managed one point in two races. Makes you wonder where that comes from.
    The team did well getting Max’s car taped up, but seeing the damage I was surprised they sent him out to be honest.

    As for Bottas steering wheel not being straight in the pit box, this is nothing new and we often see other drivers doing the same thing (including Max) I personally have no idea what gear he (or anyone else started in), but his start, like Vettel was very poor. I image his slow speed was more to do with clutch control and wheel spin rather than anything else. As for the crash, if Mercedes actually planned and executed a “bank shot”, which involved hitting a McLaren into Max, whilst cannoning into Checo, then to be honest they deserve to win the WCC because that a shot in a million. But appreciate how it must look to RBR fans. However much more likely was Nico explanation that Bottas was distracted by the “pincher movement” on him (Lando on the right and Checo on the left), both moving to occupy the space directly in front of him whilst they both were braking hard for the corner. Consequently he most likely snatched the front brake that caused the lock up, after which he was just a passenger going to the scene of an accident. But no doubt some others will believe it is a conspiracy between Mercedes powered cars against the Honda powered one. But whatever.

    As for the lack of points, we can debate this until the cows come home and it will change nothing. What we do however know is that Mercedes had nothing to do with Checo’s failure in Silverstone and nothing to do with RBR lack of pace in Hungary this weekend.

    Personally I feel that something not quite right in the RedBull camp and it’s started after Austria and the changes around the rear spoiler flex. Since then they seem to be struggling. Plus we know Mercedes have brought updates to the cars. (have you noticed how much rake the Mercedes is now carrying? ).Marko and Horner’s reaction after Max incident suggests they are feeling the pressure. This may because of the money cap, that Max has a break clause that makes him a free agent if he doesn’t win, I have no idea, but somethings a bit off.

    finally as for those who booed Hamilton this weekend, quite hilarious. They sounded like children at a pantomime. Hamilton has been booed in Karting, the Junior Formulas and every year in F1 (normally Spain and Italy) so actually it’s like water of a duck back. Disrespectful, but some people cannot help themselves.

    Hopefully the summer break will give everyone an opportunity to reflect, refuel and hopefully remember it a SPORT.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  39. #189
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    The constant negativity around his person (not deserved - but it's a reality) will take its toll. And it will become worse. Spa (Dutch GP 'light') and Zandvoort will be much worse, I suppose. Every protagonist needs an antagonist and it's clear who it is in this season. And, let's be honest, LH does a lot to keep it that way: the Q3 trick of slowing down as much as possible to prevent RBR to set a time is perhaps allowed, but you can not file this under 'good sport'.

    LH nearly fainted on the podium. His comment is that he was exhausted and reminded the journalists the fact that he had Covid (all according to a Dutch website). That would be dreadful, but the difference between the happy Ocon, Vettel (and Alonso) on one side and the LH who had overtaken nearly every car - which was an enormous achievement - was painful. I think that the boo-ing etc had effect on him when he was on the stage.

  40. #190
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    A shame for Vettel losing that place due to fuel anomaly.

    There definitely needs to be a tweak to the rules where something that is no fault of the driver doesn't impact on their points but does impact on the Team points. So in this case Vettel would keep the 2nd place, but the team would get no constructor points for it and the other teams would get a bump up the Constructor points but the other drivers wouldn't gain.

  41. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    The constant negativity around his person (not deserved - but it's a reality) will take its toll. And it will become worse. Spa (Dutch GP 'light') and Zandvoort will be much worse, I suppose. Every protagonist needs an antagonist and it's clear who it is in this season. And, let's be honest, LH does a lot to keep it that way: the Q3 trick of slowing down as much as possible to prevent RBR to set a time is perhaps allowed, but you can not file this under 'good sport'.

    LH nearly fainted on the podium. His comment is that he was exhausted and reminded the journalists the fact that he had Covid (all according to a Dutch website). That would be dreadful, but the difference between the happy Ocon, Vettel (and Alonso) on one side and the LH who had overtaken nearly every car - which was an enormous achievement - was painful. I think that the boo-ing etc had effect on him when he was on the stage.
    His lap time in Q3 was nigh on identical to those ahead. No driver can be expected to compromise his lap for those behind.

    Given the relative positions, how incredibly foolish of RB to the the last 2 out.

    Pressure of leading starting to show at RB. Despite having the quickest car at most races, they've conspired to end up behind at the half way point. Designing a car on the whim of one driver staring to look a bit silly. Perez is very quick, but managing to be behind Bottas in a slower car shows the limitations of their approach.

  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    The constant negativity around his person (not deserved - but it's a reality) will take its toll. And it will become worse. Spa (Dutch GP 'light') and Zandvoort will be much worse, I suppose. Every protagonist needs an antagonist and it's clear who it is in this season. And, let's be honest, LH does a lot to keep it that way: the Q3 trick of slowing down as much as possible to prevent RBR to set a time is perhaps allowed, but you can not file this under 'good sport'.

    LH nearly fainted on the podium. His comment is that he was exhausted and reminded the journalists the fact that he had Covid (all according to a Dutch website). That would be dreadful, but the difference between the happy Ocon, Vettel (and Alonso) on one side and the LH who had overtaken nearly every car - which was an enormous achievement - was painful. I think that the boo-ing etc had effect on him when he was on the stage.

    “His Q3 trick, etc” perhaps demonstrates exactly how polarised people have become, without taking the trouble of actually fact checking.

    Firstly RBR had the whole of the session to set a time. They were unable to beat Mercedes in the first part and then waited until the very end of Q3 before doing their final run. No issue with this but high risk, especially as they left it so late that any delays, like for example a yellow flag, slow out laps, etc might prevent them.

    In respect to Mercedes “tricks”. Firstly Hamilton, was following Bottas, who was following LeClerc, who was following Sainz. The gap between them was about 3 seconds - exactly the same as their runs at the start of Q3, mainly because there is zero “tow benefit” at the circuit and the last thing drivers wanted was disturbed air in the corners. It was a gap they maintained throughout all the Q3 runs. Secondly, the out laps on the softs were super critical, but it seems that RBR expected the other teams to speed up, wreak their tyres in order for RBR to optimise their runs. Finally if Max and Checo were so concerned about the speed, why didn’t they simply overtake the Mercedes, but if they did, they would still be running in the Ferrari bad air,

    It starting to look to me that RBR are developing a blame culture and the language used by Horner/Marko, the drivers is not helping the situation.

    Regarding Hamilton, when asked about this, he said he was still suffering from the effects of the Covid inflection he had last year, however we shouldn’t forget he had just undertaken a 2 hour emotional roller coaster, gone from first to last, managing to fight back take 3rd (now 2nd), but did not break the record for the most wins at a track. So I imagine was pretty disappointed with the day.

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  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperStripes View Post
    A shame for Vettel losing that place due to fuel anomaly.

    There definitely needs to be a tweak to the rules where something that is no fault of the driver doesn't impact on their points but does impact on the Team points. So in this case Vettel would keep the 2nd place, but the team would get no constructor points for it and the other teams would get a bump up the Constructor points but the other drivers wouldn't gain.

    i totally agree regarding Vettel, a real shame, however the FIA did give AM an opportunity to extract all the 1lt of fuel, but they simply couldn’t get more than 0.3. And the rules are the rules. If the car came in underweight then exactly the same situation would occur. It’s a shame for the drivers, however if the FIA introduced exceptions for drivers,I have zero doubt the teams would try to exploit it.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  44. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    So I imagine was pretty disappointed with the day.
    Are you JOKING ?????

  45. #195
    Pressure of leading starting to show at RB. Despite having the quickest car at most races, they've conspired to end up behind at the half way point. Designing a car on the whim of one driver staring to look a bit silly. Perez is very quick, but managing to be behind Bottas in a slower car shows the limitations of their approach.[/QUOTE]

    And why are they behind, max taken out at Silverstone by a all or nothing effort by Hamilton cost max the win .

    The other bafoon Bottas taking both red bulls out . Max had the fastest start in hungary and was right on Hamiltons Tale. If he had avoided damage he would have won the race from the restart

    But thats all iffs and Buts

    I Still think Max will take the title he is mature enough now to handle it He is the fastest Driver .on the Grid
    Which ever way you look at the Quali. Stopping a driver getting a final run is just desparation tactics and poor Form

    Wasnt nice to see how poorly Hamilton was after the Race . He looked in a bad way.

    Roll on Part two. Should be a cracker
















    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by mav112 View Post
    Pressure of leading starting to show at RB. Despite having the quickest car at most races, they've conspired to end up behind at the half way point. Designing a car on the whim of one driver staring to look a bit silly. Perez is very quick, but managing to be behind Bottas in a slower car shows the limitations of their approach.
    And why are they behind, max taken out at Silverstone by a all or nothing effort by Hamilton cost max the win .

    The other bafoon Bottas taking both red bulls out . Max had the fastest start in hungary and was right on Hamiltons Tale. If he had avoided damage he would have won the race from the restart

    But thats all iffs and Buts

    I Still think Max will take the title he is mature enough now to handle it He is the fastest Driver .on the Grid
    Which ever way you look at the Quali. Stopping a driver getting a final run is just desparation tactics and poor Form

    Wasnt nice to see how poorly Hamilton was after the Race . He looked in a bad way.

    Roll on Part two. Should be a cracker
















    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app[/QUOTE]What silly nonsense. So Mercedes etc should compromise their tyre warm up to benefit red bull? Really?

    Red bull could have gone past Hamilton at any point on the out lap. But that would have destroyed their quick lap. You genuinely seem to be suggesting that Mercedes should compromise themselves to help a competitor.

    Red bull chose to go out last. They chose to sit there. Always the victims.

  47. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by mav112 View Post
    Pressure of leading starting to show at RB. Despite having the quickest car at most races, they've conspired to end up behind at the half way point. Designing a car on the whim of one driver staring to look a bit silly. Perez is very quick, but managing to be behind Bottas in a slower car shows the limitations of their approach.
    And why are they behind, max taken out at Silverstone by a all or nothing effort by Hamilton cost max the win .

    The other bafoon Bottas taking both red bulls out . Max had the fastest start in hungary and was right on Hamiltons Tale. If he had avoided damage he would have won the race from the restart

    But thats all iffs and Buts

    I Still think Max will take the title he is mature enough now to handle it He is the fastest Driver .on the Grid
    Which ever way you look at the Quali. Stopping a driver getting a final run is just desparation tactics and poor Form

    Wasnt nice to see how poorly Hamilton was after the Race . He looked in a bad way.

    Roll on Part two. Should be a cracker


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app[/QUOTE]


    Jesus, what a biased review

  48. #198
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    I personally don’t subscribe to this “Hamilton took out Max at Silverstone” narrative unless of course Hamilton knew, with absolute certainly that Max would vanish into the weeds and his car own car would be pretty much undamaged and able to complete the race. Otherwise both would be out of the race and Max would still have a 32 point advantage going into Hungary. An even worse result would Max surviving and Hamilton suffering terminal damage. A real lose lose option.

    Actually if anyone was going to gain from that sort of move, it was Max. If both Hamilton and he didn’t finish then he would still have a 32 point lead with one less race to go. The “Schumarker Solution”.

    However if you are still doubtful just check out the onboard cameras. At no time does Hamilton change his steering angle in the corner. He most certainly doesn't turn right to “take Max out”, but I agree he could have turned left (a bit) in get closer to track edge.

    Max on the other hand turns in, looks in his mirror, straighten up for a faction, before turning in again. As Alonso said afterwards, where did Max expect to go. He cannot vanish.

    It’s also interesting that the penalty given to Hamilton was because Masi thought he could have steered in more to avoid the collision, but it was not entirely Hamilton’s fault. Max, as leader in the WDC could have backed out, he could have run wide and attempted to out drag Hamilton into the next corner, in fact he could have simply ceded the place (as Hamilton has done to avoid collisions in Spain, Portugal and Italy.) and simply tried to finish. Second place might have cost him 7 points instead of 25.

    Max certainly has talent, but he needs to understand you cannot win a race on the first lap big you can however lose it, and winning a WDC is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Hopefully lessons he will learn quickly, just as his fans need to learn.
    Last edited by Andyg; 3rd August 2021 at 16:46.

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  49. #199
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    Max certainly has talent, but he needs to understand you cannot win a race on the first lap big you can however lose it, and winning a WDC is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Hopefully lessons he will learn quickly, just as his fans need to learn.


    I'm sure that you have more experience on a racetrack than me (that's easy - I've never been in in a car on a truck). And you're making the impression that you follow F1 close-by. But what you write is a string of platitudes and it's incorrect: on many occasions, races are won by the person who leads from the start / lap 1. In total, what you wrote is pretty condescending. I'll stop here because the is not the BP.

  50. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    I'm sure that you have more experience on a racetrack than me (that's easy - I've never been in in a car on a truck). And you're making the impression that you follow F1 close-by. But what you write is a string of platitudes and it's incorrect: on many occasions, races are won by the person who leads from the start / lap 1. In total, what you wrote is pretty condescending. I'll stop here because the is not the BP.

    These “platitudes” that have been around since the start of F1 and are as true today and they were then.

    As for winning from the pole, of course it happens, but you seem to forget that Max only has 8 poles, but has achieved 15 wins. So clearly someone dropped the ball, including Hamilton on Sunday. In fact while Hamilton has 101 poles, he has only converted 59 of them into victories. So dropped the ball, for whatever reason at least 42 times.

    But if you think I am incorrect “on many occasions” feel free to point it out. It’s supposed to be a friendly balanced thread about the F1 season, not tribal warfare or character assassinations. I am happy to leave that to the BP.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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