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Thread: Help from any car dealers please

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    Help from any car dealers please

    I'm picking up a 45k miles 2016 Honda CRV tomorrow, it's from a franchised VW dealer and I'm trading in my 2019 Touran to free up some cash.

    The CRV has just passed its MoT but with an advisory for front brake discs worn but not excessively. I've asked for new discs and pads but they are trying to talk me into taking it as is.

    I know the car is safe etc but am I expecting too much asking for new discs and pads?

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Craftsman r.dawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I'm picking up a 45k miles 2016 Honda CRV tomorrow, it's from a franchised VW dealer and I'm trading in my 2019 Touran to free up some cash.

    The CRV has just passed its MoT but with an advisory for front brake discs worn but not excessively. I've asked for new discs and pads but they are trying to talk me into taking it as is.

    I know the car is safe etc but am I expecting too much asking for new discs and pads?

    Thank you
    It will cost them a fraction of what it would cost you, I'd push them for it.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    You're asking for roughly £400 incl. labour at dealer prices. Doesn't seem massively unreasonable.

    Maybe try to get that money off and if you were really bothered (although it sounds like there's nowt wrong with them) you coud get an indy to do them for half that.

    I'm not a car dealer, but that's how I see it.

  4. #4
    Master Gavbaz's Avatar
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    Hi.
    Did they give a more detailed idea of pad depth? Disc thickness.

    As you say, there may be plenty of life left in them and nothing to worry about?

  5. #5
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    hmmm

    depends if they are scored / grooved (look like an LP) or if they have started to wear out thinning of disc commensurate with miles but not yet below manufacturers (min thickness) ?

    MOT will have tested 'Braking efficiency' and obviously passed...

    Chances are their point of view is 'its passed an MOT so whats your problem'...

    but they also might be thinking your request means you expecting genuine Discs & Pads which will be considerably more expensive than Motor Factor (non gen)....Non gen for a 2.0 Petrol are circa £ 100- 120

    perhaps worth asking them to cover labour if you cover parts if they wont go the whole hog...

  6. #6
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r.dawson View Post
    It will cost them a fraction of what it would cost you, I'd push them for it.
    I was under the impression, possibly wrongly, that sales and service departments would be operating their own, independant budgets, and wouldn't cross fund. Hence, if the sales department want some work done, they pay full market rate for both labour and parts, on the basis that while the mechanics are working on the car, they aren't working on customer cars.

  7. #7
    Master
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    If itís coming up on the MOT, and they didnít tell you when you negotiated the deal, then you should push for them to be sorted. Otherwise you have just landed yourself a large bill to deal with soon

  8. #8
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtagrant View Post
    If it’s coming up on the MOT, and they didn’t tell you when you negotiated the deal, then you should push for them to be sorted. Otherwise you have just landed yourself a large bill to deal with soon
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I'm picking up a 45k miles 2016 Honda CRV tomorrow, it's from a franchised VW dealer and I'm trading in my 2019 Touran to free up some cash.

    The CRV has just passed its MoT but with an advisory for front brake discs worn but not excessively. I've asked for new discs and pads but they are trying to talk me into taking it as is.

    I know the car is safe etc but am I expecting too much asking for new discs and pads?

    Thank you
    The brake discs are worn because they've been used. That doesn't mean they're not fit for purpose.
    ______

    ​Jim.

  9. #9
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    If they are bad enough to be noted on the mot then they will need doing before next year , I'd want them changed personally or a couple of hundred £££'s off to get them done at a local dealer in the summer

  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    A difficult one, it's a bit like buying a car with only 3mm tread on the tyres, still fit for purpose but with limited life remaining. If you buy a car at the mileage you're going to end up paying for consumables at some point in the ownership term, be it tyres, brakes or clutch, and the dealer could argue the brakes are still OK. I think I`d haggle for a few pounds knocked off, I don`t think you've got grounds to have them replaced.

  11. #11
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    The brake discs are worn because they've been used. That doesn't mean they're not fit for purpose.
    Finally some sense!!

    At the moment with us all travelling 8 miles per month and going nowhere, you could have 2 years of wear in those pads and discs.
    the same with tyres, if they are road legal and working, why would you replace them?

  12. #12
    How good a deal are you being offered overall? A compromise position would be to have some money towards new discs rather than replacing them before it is needed, which as others have said could be quite a while if your mileage is reduced.

  13. #13
    Master
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    Seems to be a lot of support for dealers on here
    I would expect any car I buy commercially from a dealer not to have advisories, and if it did then it should be sorted by them

    This is my opinion as a buyer - the person that comes up with the money
    Last edited by mtagrant; 14th January 2021 at 17:10.

  14. #14
    As a franchised dealer, they should have a clearly defined set of used car prep standards which will need to be observed if they are to apply one of their "approved " warranties, might be worth getting a look at those standards.

  15. #15
    Iíd want to understand the expectations set by the dealer when negotiating and viewing the car. Have they confirmed theyíve undertaken any type of check/evaluation?

    VW state on their website for example that every car has a 142 point check. Iíd personally be of the view in this example that an advisory should have been picked up in the check.

  16. #16
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    It a point for negotiation right. I would ask them for a contribution toward their replacement.

  17. #17
    Master
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    Problem with an Mot inspection is it’s down to the interpretation of the inspector. You’ll see countless times something that’ll be marked down as an advisory by one inspector, next one wouldn’t see fit to mark it down. I’ve seen mot’s with discs marked with corrosion when all it needs it driving, car has been stood etc....

    Sales/service will be run as separate entities, sales will get a internal labour rate but still as a MD it won’t be cheap.

    Options-
    1. Just buy it as it is and get the work carried out at a later date, some very good independents out there that won’t charge you the earth.
    2. Offer to pay a contribution towards the work
    3. Ask to see their PDI (pre-delivery sheet) whichever technician has done it would of had to inspect the brakes, tyres etc.... sometimes mot centres are over zealous.
    4. Walk away, there will aways be another car out there.

    Really just depends if the deal suits- if the OP wants to pm me the details I’d gladly have a look at the trade figures.
    Last edited by Rob153; 14th January 2021 at 17:47.

  18. #18
    Master
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    Why not ask insist on it, i can guarentee they absolutely robbed you on the Touran trade and will make fantastic profit on your back.

  19. #19
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    I would want that work carried out by the dealer at thier cost.

  20. #20
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    Why not ask insist on it, i can guarentee they absolutely robbed you on the Touran trade and will make fantastic profit on your back.
    This day and age Dealers do not have massive margins in run of the mill cars like Touranís, CRVís etc... youíd be surprised how little can be across them. Gone are the days of netting a couple of grand out of every unit. Too much competition out there, buying and selling, dealers margins are getting squeezed both ends.

  21. #21
    Master
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    Personally, if I was buying from a main dealer Iíd expect any vehicle from them to not have any MOT advisories. Same would go for any purchase from a trader.

    My view is they fix it or let you walk away. Their margins, cross-charges and etc is not your concern.

  22. #22
    Grand Master
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    No one's suggested the obvious thing to do.....have a look at the discs and pads yourself and use your judgement. MOT tester hasn`t had the wheels off, ask the dealer to get it on a ramp and have a look yourself to see how bad they are. Sometimes you can tell by looking through the wheel spokes and having a feel, but don`t do this if the brakes are hot.

    Be careful not to cut your nose off to spite your face here, you've got a deal you're happy with to free up cash and you have to accept that owning an older car will involve such costs as replacing brakes. As already mentioned the dealers don`t have the margins in vehicles like they used to have so there's less scope for generosity!

    It's easy for folks to advise playing hardball by proxy!

  23. #23
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    It boils down to how "good" of a deal did they get in your overall transaction. If you hard-balled them down to a skinny profit, then no. Otherwise, it's whatever you can negotiate/finesse with them.

  24. #24
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I've asked for new discs and pads but they are trying to talk me into taking it as is.

    I know the car is safe etc but am I expecting too much asking for new discs and pads?
    Yes, I think you're expecting too much.
    If you want new discs and pads, you should cough up for them.
    They're legal as they are just noted and has been said, could last ages depending how the car is driven.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by notnowkato View Post
    As a franchised dealer, they should have a clearly defined set of used car prep standards which will need to be observed if they are to apply one of their "approved " warranties, might be worth getting a look at those standards.
    This would be my thinking too. As a franchised dealer of any make they should have dealer standards to adhere to unless they're only for brands within the same make as the franchise?

  26. #26
    Master
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    Depends how much you've left on the table for the dealer.
    You might be asking for all of his margin there.
    Everybody's got to eat.

  27. #27
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    i would say, be prepared to walk away if you are not happy. Plenty of dealers out there and i doubt they are overrun with new business

  28. #28
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    Wow, thank you for all the responses.

    Apparently they are an RAC approved dealer so follow the RAC 82 point check as it's not a VW so not part of the VW approved used scheme. The only reference to brakes on this is that the pads should be above 50%. I've spoken to the service manager who was ultimately responsible for the MOT, service and inspection. He has advised me that there is a slight lip on the discs, the pads are above 50% and reassured me that they do not need replacing imminently.

    I think I got an ok deal, I don't mind sharing here for anyone interested.

    CRV SE 1.6i-dtec AWD 2016 46k with full Honda Service History and just serviced by the VW dealer. £11500. Seems to be amongst the cheapest available within a sensible distance.

    VW Touran 1.6tdi SE 2019 9k miles with full VW service history. After negotiation they've given me £16250 (I paid £18500 12 months ago from a VW dealer). Has basically cost me £187 p/m so happy with that.

    Both cars are immaculate and I walk away with £4750.

    I got a quote locally for discs and pads at just over £200. We have reached a compromise and split the difference so I get another £100 back towards the brakes when they need doing, which I am happy with.

    Thank you to all who replied and for your realistic responses.

  29. #29
    Master
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    Sounds like a fair result Craig. Particularly as you were trading down.

  30. #30
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    Yep, fair result.

  31. #31
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Nice work!

  32. #32
    Sensible and measured outcome for all. Good to hear thereís still some common sense around!

  33. #33
    Master
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    Good news, just shows what a simple conversation with someone can achieve.

  34. #34
    Good result though the "advisory" really probably wasn't.

    I've had advisories in the past, ignored and a year later it isn't picked up.

  35. #35
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    As a tester myself I have noticed a lot of discs on sales cars are showing unsightly surface corrosion at the present time- this is probably due to the slower pace of things at the moment as cars are idle in car parks.Have a look at them after a weeks use,my guess is you wonít need new.

  36. #36
    Master
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    Seems like a fair result. Enjoy the new car and the extra cash.

  37. #37
    A quick look on Euro Car Parts has a full set of front disks and pads for the CRV for a few coppers under £77.

    Changing them isn't a tricky job for an amateur mechanic.

    The MX5 came up with an advisory with front disk corrosion at the MOT a couple of weeks ago, so we've spent £130 on a full set of Brembo disks and pads all round and will pop them on when the sun comes out to play

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    I was under the impression, possibly wrongly, that sales and service departments would be operating their own, independant budgets, and wouldn't cross fund. Hence, if the sales department want some work done, they pay full market rate for both labour and parts, on the basis that while the mechanics are working on the car, they aren't working on customer cars.
    I've noticed this becoming the norm a few years ago and am not convinced. As far as I am concerned, when I walk through that front door, I am dealing with one business.

    Perhaps I'm cynical, however but I'd change "they pay full market rate for both labour and parts, on the basis that while the mechanics are working on the car, they aren't working on customer cars" to "they pay full main dealer rate for both labour and parts, because that makes it easier to pass that cost on the buyer"

    If they were working truly independently then sales departments would get work done by an independent garage using OEM parts from a trade supplier (e.g. from TPS rather than from their parts counter) to minimise the cost of bringing a car up to spec, maximise profit or at least give them more margin to play with.

  39. #39
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    All's well that ends well

    Thanks all, just thought I'd provide an update. Due to the current restrictions and the car being 80 miles away I was basically buying the car unseen, albeit with an agreement that I could cancel if on arrival I wasn't happy with the condition or test drive. I never thought I would buy a car 'click and collect!'

    However, on arrival I could see that the car had been accurately described and was immaculate, a test drive confirmed I was happy to proceed. A few bits of admin outside on the salesman's ipad and I was away, all very professional and covid secure.

    The above advice from the TZUK massive proved correct, there was surface rust on the discs which had all but disappeared by the time I got home. A slight lip on the discs was an accurate description and I'm sure they will be good for a few thousand miles. I actually feel a bit bad now for pushing for the extra cash, but I'm happy that overall it was a fair deal for both parties. My friend has an almost identical CR-V albeit 1 year older with 15k miles more and has just had his discs replaced, so I would estimate I've got 10 to 15k miles left in mine. Although I have changed brake pads on my cars many years ago I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to do it now, although will watch some youtube videos and see how I feel.

    On a side note I have been provided with a copy of the invoice from the service department , showing all that was done to the car including service with correct spec oil, MOT, front and rear bosch wiper blades, new number plates and a new tyre with a grand total of £476. I do wonder, as stated above though, if the sales department do pay that actual amount, just glad that I wasn't paying it!

    Thanks again for all the responses, you all added to my very pleasant first and hopefully last covid car purchase!
    Last edited by Craig; 16th January 2021 at 15:54.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Thanks all, just thought I'd provide an update. Due to the current restrictions and the car being 80 miles away I was basically buying the car unseen, albeit with an agreement that I could cancel if on arrival I wasn't happy with the condition or test drive. I never thought I would buy a car 'click and collect!'
    Glad it has worked out.

    I'm buying a motorbike on the same basis. Actually the most amount of money I'll have shelled out on a vehicle ever. Without seeing it. It's an odd time.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    Glad it has worked out.

    I'm buying a motorbike on the same basis. Actually the most amount of money I'll have shelled out on a vehicle ever. Without seeing it. It's an odd time.
    Yes, very strange times, I never imagined buying a used car unseen but at the end of the day you have to see the vehicle at some point and if it's not as described you don't proceed. I hope your experience is as positive as mine and you enjoy your new bike. Cheers.

  42. #42
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Yes, very strange times, I never imagined buying a used car unseen but at the end of the day you have to see the vehicle at some point and if it's not as described you don't proceed. I hope your experience is as positive as mine and you enjoy your new bike. Cheers.
    Glad everything worked out for the best- Hope you enjoy the CRV, hey really are a cracking good value car.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    Why not ask insist on it, i can guarentee they absolutely robbed you on the Touran trade and will make fantastic profit on your back.
    You cannot guarantee any such thing.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  44. #44
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    Why not ask insist on it, i can guarentee they absolutely robbed you on the Touran trade and will make fantastic profit on your back.
    Always nice when an expert shows up.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  45. #45
    Craftsman
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    I don't mind sharing the figures, they gave me £16,250 and now have it up for sale at £18,000. I think that's fair, as was said earlier in the thread, everyone has to eat.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I don't mind sharing the figures, they gave me £16,250 and now have it up for sale at £18,000. I think that's fair, as was said earlier in the thread, everyone has to eat.
    And being fair that's not a huge mark up, considering that they'll likely spend a couple of hundred quid on fixing up little dents and blemishes, will no doubt take somewhere between £200 and £500 off negotiating the deal, and the difference is VATable.

    There's likely £1000 tops in it for the dealer, and out of that they need to carry the warranty risk, pay the salesman etc etc.

    Looks like a decent mark up but isn't that much when you break it down

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