closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Spring Drive Accuracy Seiko not Grand Seiko

  1. #1
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838

    Spring Drive Accuracy Seiko not Grand Seiko

    Had this watch a few weeks now, it’s a limited edition of 400, already made a few waves on YouTube, and hopefully for me well at least not lose too much eventually.
    I’ve taken it off the bracelet, partly to preserve that in mint condition, and partly because it actually looks stunning to me on this strap.
    But the most amazing thing to see is the incredible accuracy and also build quality, I’ve had Grand Seiko.. and this is up there with the build.
    The movement has a mesmerising effect on me, so much so that I may offload the bulk of my automatics in order to possibly purchase a diver.
    Is this level of accuracy normal for these watches?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    That doesn't surprise me given the nature of the SD - what's the movement calibre in it?

    It's my favourite movement: mesmerising to watch, silent and incredibly accurate.
    Last edited by hughtrimble; 14th January 2021 at 14:37.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    SE England
    Posts
    27,034
    I'd expect nothing less for a quartz watch.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  4. #4
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantastic View Post
    ..........

    Is this level of accuracy normal for these watches?
    Yes. Seiko make their own crystals and the best (pre-aged and more stable) are put in the spring drives. It doesn't matter if Seiko or Grand Seiko. The spring drive have their own niche in terms of movement. Spring drives deliver less than 10secs per year but Seiko will never claim that.
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  5. #5
    Jan 6th seems to be a strange anomaly, which I would have expected.

    Every spring drive I’ve owned had fantastic accuracy, and around 1-3 seconds a month.
    It's just a matter of time...

  6. #6
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    I'd expect nothing less for a quartz watch.
    It just shows that the choice of good crystals is better than thermo-compensation.

    It never fails to surprise me that people can still be thinking that the spring drive is anything but a quartz.
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  7. #7
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838
    January the 6th was me taking the photo incorrectly!! I didnt line up the markers.. but it hasnt messed too much with the stats


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    That doesn't surprise me given the nature of the SD - what's the movement calibre in it?

    It's my favourite movement: mesmerising to watch, silent and incredibly accurate.
    Its the 5R66 movement..its made my Rolex
    Look jittery, I can actually see the 8 steps now when I look at it..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Craftsman Cyclone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    South West
    Posts
    478
    What app are you using to time it, out of interest?

  11. #11
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838
    Its called Twixt on the app store on IOS


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Craftsman Cyclone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    South West
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantastic View Post
    Its called Twixt on the app store on IOS


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks, however seems its not available on Android - shame.

    Nice watch by the way!

  13. #13
    Master Murdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,053
    I’ve had three spring drives, two GS and one Seiko. The first two I had (an MM600 and a GS Diver) were amazingly accurate. I honestly couldn’t tell after a month or so whether they were gaining or losing. My most recent one (GS Snowflake) gains a couple of seconds a week.

  14. #14
    Master Murdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantastic View Post
    Its the 5R66 movement..its made my Rolex
    Look jittery, I can actually see the 8 steps now when I look at it..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You’ve got better eyes than me! Every spring drive I’ve seen has a totally smooth second hand.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    It just shows that the choice of good crystals is better than thermo-compensation.

    It never fails to surprise me that people can still be thinking that the spring drive is anything but a quartz.
    I’m not convinced on the quartz being more important than the compensation. Their newer GS spring drive also incorporates Thermo compensation. The thermo compensated movements have much better stated accuracy than Seiko’s deemed standard. Whilst I’ve never had a spring drive anywhere near the outside of their specs of 15 secs a month, or 6 seconds for their top of the range.
    It's just a matter of time...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    It just shows that the choice of good crystals is better than thermo-compensation.

    It never fails to surprise me that people can still be thinking that the spring drive is anything but a quartz.
    I think this comes down to how we label regulation types. A battery/solar powered watch is usually referred to as being 'quartz' as that's what regulates them however we don't say 'escapement' or 'mechanical' when referring to non-battery/solar watches. They're referred to as being automatics or hand winds, therefore people can be forgiven for referring to Spring Drives as 'automatics' as they have rotors and they store their power mechanically.

  17. #17
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,737
    Quote Originally Posted by CardShark View Post
    I think this comes down to how we label regulation types. A battery/solar powered watch is usually referred to as being 'quartz' as that's what regulates them however we don't say 'escapement' or 'mechanical' when referring to non-battery/solar watches. They're referred to as being automatics or hand winds, therefore people can be forgiven for referring to Spring Drives as 'automatics' as they have rotors and they store their power mechanically.
    Kinetics also have rotors, but they are not classed as automatics. Seiko had tried for years to ""hide"" the quartz element of spring drive... as people wouldn't pay the asking money for quartz. Anything with quartz in it... is quartz. Try taking the quartz reference out of it and see how far it goes.
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  18. #18
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdoc View Post
    You’ve got better eyes than me! Every spring drive I’ve seen has a totally smooth second hand.
    I meant the Rolex ...the spring drive is what made me notice it...sorry for the confusion

  19. #19
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Hereford'ish
    Posts
    1,738
    I've been inspired to check this one and it's gained 8 seconds in approx 6 months. It's also quite a good activity tracker!


  20. #20
    Master shalako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    4,483
    The Sbdb001 MM600 I had, one of my favourite Seiko’s was about +/- 1.5 seconds a month.

  21. #21
    That's about right for accuracy, in my experience.


  22. #22
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    SE England
    Posts
    27,034
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Kinetics also have rotors, but they are not classed as automatics. Seiko had tried for years to ""hide"" the quartz element of spring drive... as people wouldn't pay the asking money for quartz. Anything with quartz in it... is quartz. Try taking the quartz reference out of it and see how far it goes.
    This is of course all true.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  23. #23
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    This is of course all true.
    The way I see it is, a manufacturer has combined the best of both worlds, the movement was incredibly difficult to design and manufacture with consistency. It isn’t a pure quartz, as the great train and escapement does not move back and forth, or step at all, it is a continuous movement regulated by a electro magnetic brake, this in itself sets it apart from every other movement in modern day watchmaking. No other manufacturer has anything even remotely similar, that can’t be said in reality for any other movement.. quartz is the regulator , personally I think it’s an incredible piece of engineering..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  24. #24
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    1,078
    A while back there was a WuS thread discussing Spring Drive accuracy referencing a YouTube video that seemed to indicate that Seiko regulate their SDs to +0.2spd. Even wearing mine far less than the 12h per day recommended to obtain the stated accuracy of HAQ models, it runs at about +4spm. Judging from owners' reported experience, if worn regularly, SDs seem to run at levels close to HAQ, bearing no relation whatsoever to Seiko's stated accuracy of +/-15spm.

    It'll be interesting to see whether the new thermoregulated movements manage to close the gap to true HAQ even further.

  25. #25
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantastic View Post
    The way I see it is, a manufacturer has combined the best of both worlds, the movement was incredibly difficult to design and manufacture with consistency. It isn’t a pure quartz, as the great train and escapement does not move back and forth, or step at all, it is a continuous movement regulated by a electro magnetic brake, this in itself sets it apart from every other movement in modern day watchmaking. No other manufacturer has anything even remotely similar, that can’t be said in reality for any other movement.. quartz is the regulator , personally I think it’s an incredible piece of engineering..
    The word I would use is "hybrid". Half machine and half electrics. I would describe it as an electronically (as in quartz) controlled mechanism. Yes it was fancy 20 years ago. Now it is just obvious. If you love them, buy them.
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  26. #26
    Is there any doubt that the quartz part of the ‘hybrid’ mechanism is what is driving the accuracy? I quite like the SD technology and think it is a great advance but certainly like to maintain the perspective when discussing accuracy.

  27. #27
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    SE England
    Posts
    27,034
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Is there any doubt that the quartz part of the ‘hybrid’ mechanism is what is driving the accuracy? I quite like the SD technology and think it is a great advance but certainly like to maintain the perspective when discussing accuracy.
    No doubt at all that it is quartz that is setting the accuracy.

    Personally I think spring drive is an interesting but expensive white elephant in as much as a decent quartz will give you accuracy to 1-2 seconds per month and a decent mechanical to a few seconds per day.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  28. #28
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    623
    Better accuracy thank any(?) traditional mechanical watch with no need for a battery.
    Odd for it to be considered as anything other than a step forward just because it uses a crystal.

  29. #29
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,737
    Spring drive are way too expensive to be useful in any way. The only one I have ever seen used was the Spacewalk that was carried by some rich bloke on his round trip to the International Space Station. If Seiko kept them cheap they could have revolutionised the quartz market. As it is... meh. The hi-beats are better investments.
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Spring drive are way too expensive to be useful in any way. The only one I have ever seen used was the Spacewalk that was carried by some rich bloke on his round trip to the International Space Station. If Seiko kept them cheap they could have revolutionised the quartz market. As it is... meh. The hi-beats are better investments.
    I've steered clear of HBs - isn't the servicing interval (understandably) very short given the greatly increased wear brought about by its very nature?

    Personally, SD all the way for me. Best of both worlds.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information