Electric Vehicle - any experience?

[markedwards146]

So.... I had my heart set on the Hyundai Kona Electric through a salary sacrifice scheme. I did all the maths and it all worked out very well.... Until it turned out i didnt qualify for this car as it was too expensive.

My options have been limited to a few others. None have me thrilled but i have had a quick look at the Peugeot E 208

It looks very snazzy but is a bit smaller (the Kona was a lot larger than i expected) and the range is not as good as the battery is smaller. 64kwh down to 50kwh.

My main question would be just around real world driving

My commute is about 30 miles round trip each day and this is second family vehicle so will be predominantly used for this and the odd weekend journey.
The range calculater on Peugeot own website stated you will get about 211 miles on an average full charge but that drops sharply to about 120 on a pure motorway run at 70

Any thoughts insights would be appreciated

[PipPip]

Will you be charging at home or work? If so range becomes less of a worry for a car to be used for commuting/second car duties. I commuted 20 miles each way for 2 years in a BMW i3 that had a winter range of 60 miles. I just charged up at work every day or overnight at home. Range was a non-issue as for long trips we had a diesel. Now our two cars are a Tesla Model 3 Long Range for long trips and a Renault Zoe ZE50 for second car duties, both via my work salary sacrifice scheme which allows two cars. The Zoe has a real world range of 220-230 miles in summer and currently in these freezing temperatures about 140-150 miles. If you can have a home charger and only very occasionally drive long journeys then I wouldn’t worry too much about range as long as it comfortably covers your daily commute. However if you are reliant exclusively on public charging then check Zap-Map for charging in your area. Where I live I honestly don’t think I’d have an EV if public charging was my only option as the local charging infrastructure is beyond crap. If the Zoe is available on your scheme it would be worth a look. Quite few other nice small EVs popping up recently from Honda, Mini, Fiat too. None of them are that cheap though and the Zoe was a good deal on our scheme.

[mrmeat]

Longer trips just need planning and for you to be prepared that some of the infrastructure can be unreliable. We've had a few mishaps on long trips but for the 99% of driving that we do, home charging is all we need.

I love my electric car, and whilst it's not the answer to every motoring question, it answers enough of them for me and my family.

[Tooks]

So.... I had my heart set on the Hyundai Kona Electric through a salary sacrifice scheme. I did all the maths and it all worked out very well.... Until it turned out i didnt qualify for this car as it was too expensive.

My options have been limited to a few others. None have me thrilled but i have had a quick look at the Peugeot E 208

It looks very snazzy but is a bit smaller (the Kona was a lot larger than i expected) and the range is not as good as the battery is smaller. 64kwh down to 50kwh.

My main question would be just around real world driving

My commute is about 30 miles round trip each day and this is second family vehicle so will be predominantly used for this and the odd weekend journey.
The range calculater on Peugeot own website stated you will get about 211 miles on an average full charge but that drops sharply to about 120 on a pure motorway run at 70

Any thoughts insights would be appreciated

Fair play to Peugeot for being honest with regard to winter range at a genuine sustained 70mph.

In reality, I find my average speed over a long journey is around 55-58mph, accounting for congestion and roadworks etc, so you should find it better than that. I’ve got a 58kWH ID.3 and even in the current freezing temps it’s covering my 175 mile one way commute without needing to charge.

The e-208 will do your daily commute standing on its head, in any weather.

Longer trips will also be easy due to the Instavolt charging network that is expanding fast, that’s before you look at the other networks which are not bad but usually don’t have the multi charger sites that Instavolt are putting up.

Have a look at Zap Map and see where your weekend trips might be, and see what charging infrastructure is around. Instavolt sites are the closest thing we’ve got to a Tesla like recharging experience, pull up, tap your contactless card on the unit, plug in and you’re off. The e-208 also charges pretty quickly on the 100+ kW chargers that are popping up at BP and She’ll forecourts as well.

Gridserve have also just opened a site near Norwich which is the first of 100 such sites they’re building, so it’s changing fast.

[Dave+63]

If you’re looking for something a little larger than the E208/CorsaE then MG are worth looking at. The ZS SUV currently only has a 45.5kwhr battery but it’s still plenty for your commute. My daughter loves hers and they can be bought new for just over £20k

There’s also the MG5 estate with a 52.5kwhr battery available for slightly more.

[markedwards146]

Will you be charging at home or work? If so range becomes less of a worry for a car to be used for commuting/second car duties. I commuted 20 miles each way for 2 years in a BMW i3 that had a winter range of 60 miles. I just charged up at work every day or overnight at home. Range was a non-issue as for long trips we had a diesel. Now our two cars are a Tesla Model 3 Long Range for long trips and a Renault Zoe ZE50 for second car duties, both via my work salary sacrifice scheme which allows two cars. The Zoe has a real world range of 220-230 miles in summer and currently in these freezing temperatures about 140-150 miles. If you can have a home charger and only very occasionally drive long journeys then I wouldn’t worry too much about range as long as it comfortably covers your daily commute. However if you are reliant exclusively on public charging then check Zap-Map for charging in your area. Where I live I honestly don’t think I’d have an EV if public charging was my only option as the local charging infrastructure is beyond crap. If the Zoe is available on your scheme it would be worth a look. Quite few other nice small EVs popping up recently from Honda, Mini, Fiat too. None of them are that cheap though and the Zoe was a good deal on our scheme.

Pippip, thanks for the reply, its good to get real answers.

Ive just took a trip up to the local renault garage and the zoe looked small. But i am willing to have a proper look once the dealers are open again.
One thing i forgot to mention is that although it will be predominately just myself, i do have a 1 year old and 3 year old that, whatever car i pick will have to be able to fit in the back for the odd occasions when needed.

I will have off road charging at home which i do thinknis a necessity for me. I cannot see my workplace having chargers ever so thats out of the window!!

I was hoping to charge once per week on the Kona with a realistic goal of 170 ish miles between charges but i think from peoples experience with the smaller cars i will have to re evaluate this

[markedwards146]

Longer trips just need planning and for you to be prepared that some of the infrastructure can be unreliable. We've had a few mishaps on long trips but for the 99% of driving that we do, home charging is all we need.

I love my electric car, and whilst it's not the answer to every motoring question, it answers enough of them for me and my family.

Thanks , i do feel il develop a case of range anxiety, im very laissez-faire with my cars at the minute. The wife, as soon as the warning light comes on turns into a panicky mess frantically looking for a texaco.

[markedwards146]

Fair play to Peugeot for being honest with regard to winter range at a genuine sustained 70mph.

In reality, I find my average speed over a long journey is around 55-58mph, accounting for congestion and roadworks etc, so you should find it better than that. I’ve got a 58kWH ID.3 and even in the current freezing temps it’s covering my 175 mile one way commute without needing to charge.

The e-208 will do your daily commute standing on its head, in any weather.

Longer trips will also be easy due to the Instavolt charging network that is expanding fast, that’s before you look at the other networks which are not bad but usually don’t have the multi charger sites that Instavolt are putting up.

Have a look at Zap Map and see where your weekend trips might be, and see what charging infrastructure is around. Instavolt sites are the closest thing we’ve got to a Tesla like recharging experience, pull up, tap your contactless card on the unit, plug in and you’re off. The e-208 also charges pretty quickly on the 100+ kW chargers that are popping up at BP and She’ll forecourts as well.

Gridserve have also just opened a site near Norwich which is the first of 100 such sites they’re building, so it’s changing fast.

Good to know about the instavolt chargers. I have had a quick look at zap map but havent joined or anything yet, the polar network seems to be quite wide too. From your experience. Is it still relatively cheaper to run when using "on the road" charging rather than home?

[Sweepinghand]

I own a BMW i3 Rex (range extender) so it has a little back up petrol engine.
Full charge on electric in esp my is 141 miles - plus 100 miles in the back up petrol.
I charge off the granny brick charger at night and see no real need for a fitted charger at present
Real life......
The cold weather does knock the range bit not as much as you’d think as you can pre warm the battery from the app - also you tend to drive at about 60 everywhere on motorways and duels with no inconvenience for the economy

The petrol back up is real handy and always stops any squeaky bum - but if you have a little commute like yours just top up each night with no issues

The best bit.... huge fuel savings snd I mean HUGE
Speed - I can per all over an m4 or a golf R from the lights if I want - it’s rare I bother

I doubt I’ll go back to non electric - bit will look at a car with longer range next time that’s all as I’m lazy on charging!

Hyundai and Kia have some decent offerings - the Pug seems quite acceptable for what you want too

Don’t get mugged off by the doom and gloom brigade telling you there aren’t any chargers etc etc - you don’t really need them in your scenario - zap map will show you where they are near you - and more and more are popping up all over

I hope it helps


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[Paddy!]

I deliberately don't join in a lot of these EV conversations but... as above, definitely join zapmap* (it's free) - when you're logged in, you input your vehicle and it also helps map routes/range etc.

When you visit your dealers, please check to see if they are EVA Approved (see here for why: www.evapproved.co.uk), these dealers' audited standards are set by the government Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (or OZEV, previously OLEV), Energy Savings Trust (EST) and the National Franchised Dealer Association (NFDA**).

*DISCLAIMER - I am involved in project work with Zapmap but in no way receive any financial benefit for recommending!

**DISCLAIMER - I am Head of Operations for the NFDA, amongst many things, responsibility for EVA as a separate project

[PipPip]

Pippip, thanks for the reply, its good to get real answers.

Ive just took a trip up to the local renault garage and the zoe looked small. But i am willing to have a proper look once the dealers are open again.
One thing i forgot to mention is that although it will be predominately just myself, i do have a 1 year old and 3 year old that, whatever car i pick will have to be able to fit in the back for the odd occasions when needed.

I will have off road charging at home which i do thinknis a necessity for me. I cannot see my workplace having chargers ever so thats out of the window!!

I was hoping to charge once per week on the Kona with a realistic goal of 170 ish miles between charges but i think from peoples experience with the smaller cars i will have to re evaluate this

The Zoe is deceptive. Its more spacious than the i3 we had before and has a reasonable boot. My kids are 11 and 13 and no issue with back space. Our springer spaniel is also happy in the boot.

Your comment about hoping to charge once a week is interesting and reflects an ICE car mindset. Charging is no more difficult than charging a phone once you have a home charger. Takes seconds to plug in, way more convenient than with an ICE car so I would recommend you reevaluate this. You need to get into the mindset of charging when electricity is cheap. We are on Octopus Go which means 5p per kw between 00.30 and 04.30 so we tend to charge little and often. In that 4 hour nighttime window we can add about 50% to the Zoe, which on average is about 100 miles of range. This represents about 25kW of power, which means a cost of £1.25 per 100 miles.

One feature I love about EVs is preconditioning. This can be programmed for set times or via a tapping a button on an app. Means you always get into a fully defrosted and warm car in the morning. On some cars this only works when the car is plugged in or battery is above a minimum state of charge. Hence many EV owners just plug in every night.

[Omegamanic]

I own a BMW i3 Rex (range extender) so it has a little back up petrol engine.
Full charge on electric in esp my is 141 miles - plus 100 miles in the back up petrol.
I charge off the granny brick charger at night and see no real need for a fitted charger at present
Real life......
The cold weather does knock the range bit not as much as you’d think as you can pre warm the battery from the app - also you tend to drive at about 60 everywhere on motorways and duels with no inconvenience for the economy

The petrol back up is real handy and always stops any squeaky bum - but if you have a little commute like yours just top up each night with no issues

The best bit.... huge fuel savings snd I mean HUGE
Speed - I can per all over an m4 or a golf R from the lights if I want - it’s rare I bother

I doubt I’ll go back to non electric - bit will look at a car with longer range next time that’s all as I’m lazy on charging!

Hyundai and Kia have some decent offerings - the Pug seems quite acceptable for what you want too

Don’t get mugged off by the doom and gloom brigade telling you there aren’t any chargers etc etc - you don’t really need them in your scenario - zap map will show you where they are near you - and more and more are popping up all over

I hope it helps


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

Im not sure what world your i3 lives in, but it’s not going to touch a Golf R from the lights by anyone trying, and would only perform against an M4 in the worst possible conditions - it’s only quicker from 0-30kph (what’s that up to around 18.5mph), and then it’s virtually annihilated.

As for cold weather range. Even with battery conditioning, winter makes a huge difference to overall range compared to summer. Yes, even on the i3.

[Dave+63]

Im not sure what world your i3 lives in, but it’s not going to touch a Golf R from the lights by anyone trying, and would only perform against an M4 in the worst possible conditions - it’s only quicker from 0-30kph (what’s that up to around 18.5mph), and then it’s virtually annihilated.

As for cold weather range. Even with battery conditioning, winter makes a huge difference to overall range compared to summer. Yes, even on the i3.

The i3s (not the less sporty ones) will do 0-62mph in around 4.5 sec as opposed to 5.1 sec for the golf R

[Tooks]

The i3s (not the less sporty ones) will do 0-62mph in around 4.5 sec as opposed to 5.1 sec for the golf R

I thought the official 0-60, if such things matter, is 6.9s on the i3s?

[Tooks]

Good to know about the instavolt chargers. I have had a quick look at zap map but havent joined or anything yet, the polar network seems to be quite wide too. From your experience. Is it still relatively cheaper to run when using "on the road" charging rather than home?

Prices for on the road public charging vary greatly depending on the speed of the charger, and go from free to 69p per kWh.

Instavolt rapid chargers are 35p per kWh, and given a 3.5 mile per kWh energy usage (which is typical for an EV, but many can do more and some less) that equates to about 57 miles covered for the price of a gallon of petrol if that helps?

Charging at home of course, you’ll be paying more like 14p per kWh, so a lot cheaper. If you sign up to an EV home energy tariff you’ll pay only 5p per kWh for 4 hours per night, which on a 7kW home charge point would give you around 28kWh into your battery for £1.40, that’s about 98 miles or more than your daily commute.

The public rapid chargers are all about extending the range of your car beyond what it can carry on board, and make longer journeys possible, and still relatively low cost.

[Omegamanic]

The i3s (not the less sporty ones) will do 0-62mph in around 4.5 sec as opposed to 5.1 sec for the golf R

We are talking about an i3 with the additional weight of the range extender.

However, all I can find on the i3s is:

“Upgrading your i3 to an i3S costs around £2,500 and brings inch-bigger 20in wheels, another 14bhp (for a 182bhp total) to knock 0.4secs off the 0-62mph time (now 6.9secs), 10mm-lower suspension and a 40mm-wider track, which also means extended wheel arches.”

Edited to add that I’ve just watched a few timed videos and none get anywhere close to a sub 6 sec 0-60. But did an impressive 3 sec 0-50kph, which is where one of the original comparisons but one of the car mags had it on one timing run as being slightly quicker than an old M3.

[usedtobelurch]

Mate of mine has an e-Golf which has the supplementary petrol motor. It’s nippy and the integration of the two power units is seamless. That said, he said he won’t have another as the winter performance isn’t great and the pre-warming never really does the job.

I also work with a guy who has an i-Pace as his main car. It’s pretty impressive and definitely a step forward on from the Golf but he’s struggled on the occasional long journey. His MO now is to book a hotel half-way along his journey which obviously negates the fuel saving and last time he didn’t get the charge the car whilst it was parked overnight as someone else got the the charger first...

As a commuter, or second car they make sense.

[PipPip]

Mate of mine has an e-Golf which has the supplementary petrol motor. It’s nippy and the integration of the two power units is seamless. That said, he said he won’t have another as the winter performance isn’t great and the pre-warming never really does the job.

I also work with a guy who has an i-Pace as his main car. It’s pretty impressive and definitely a step forward on from the Golf but he’s struggled on the occasional long journey. His MO now is to book a hotel half-way along his journey which obviously negates the fuel saving and last time he didn’t get the charge the car whilst it was parked overnight as someone else got the the charger first...

As a commuter, or second car they make sense.

Only a Tesla is currently viable as a long distance EV and even then only if there are superchargers on your route. Across Europe they are amazing. In the UK it’s still a bit patchy but the network is growing very rapidly.

[Kingstepper]

Mate of mine has an e-Golf which has the supplementary petrol motor. It’s nippy and the integration of the two power units is seamless. That said, he said he won’t have another as the winter performance isn’t great and the pre-warming never really does the job.

I also work with a guy who has an i-Pace as his main car. It’s pretty impressive and definitely a step forward on from the Golf but he’s struggled on the occasional long journey. His MO now is to book a hotel half-way along his journey which obviously negates the fuel saving and last time he didn’t get the charge the car whilst it was parked overnight as someone else got the the charger first...

As a commuter, or second car they make sense.

Does the petrol engine on e-Golf drive the wheels or just charge the battery? If the former would worry me that 2x things to go wrong.

[Tooks]

The e-Golf is actually a full EV, it doesn’t have an engine at all.

What’s being talked about is the Golf GTE which is a plug in hybrid.

It has a 1.4 TSI engine mated to a 6 speed DSG box, but sandwiched between them is a 100hp electric motor that both starts the engine and allows it to drive in electric only mode to 85mph.

There’s a new Mk8 version out now with a 13kWh battery that’s supposed to be good for up to 39 miles IIRC. The Mk7 and 7.5 versions had a smaller battery, good for 20 miles or so.

They are more complex beasts, but mine was reliable for over 90k miles until I traded it for an e-Golf.

[mactrack]

The e-Golf is actually a full EV, it doesn’t have an engine at all.

What’s being talked about is the Golf GTE which is a plug in hybrid.

It has a 1.4 TSI engine mated to a 6 speed DSG box, but sandwiched between them is a 100hp electric motor that both starts the engine and allows it to drive in electric only mode to 85mph.

There’s a new Mk8 version out now with a 13kWh battery that’s supposed to be good for up to 39 miles IIRC. The Mk7 and 7.5 versions had a smaller battery, good for 20 miles or so.

They are more complex beasts, but mine was reliable for over 90k miles until I traded it for an e-Golf.

Did you have the cam belt changed on your GTE? My mother's GTE was serviced at a VW main dealer on Thursday and there was email advisory that there was no evidence of it having been done at 5yrs/50,000 miles and there was an indicated price to do it of £1,200! That being said when I collected the car the service advisor never mentioned it all nor tried to sell the service. I have found a local VAG specialist that has quoted £650.

[Tooks]

Did you have the cam belt changed on your GTE? My mother's GTE was serviced at a VW main dealer on Thursday and there was email advisory that there was no evidence of it having been done at 5yrs/50,000 miles and there was an indicated price to do it of £1,200! That being said when I collected the car the service advisor never mentioned it all nor tried to sell the service. I have found a local VAG specialist that has quoted £650.

No, the cambelt is due at 100k or 5 years, which was one of the motivators for me trading it for the e-Golf.

VW do like to charge for cambelts, access is very tight on the GTE as there’s all the electric stuff under the bonnet as well, but £650 sounds like a fair enough price.

[mactrack]

No, the cambelt is due at 100k or 5 years, which was one of the motivators for me trading it for the e-Golf.

VW do like to charge for cambelts, access is very tight on the GTE as there’s all the electric stuff under the bonnet as well, but £650 sounds like a fair enough price.

Thanks much appreciated. Her GTE is 5.5 years old and just under 50K miles so will likely go with the independent despite the FVWSH.

[markedwards146]

Your comment about hoping to charge once a week is interesting and reflects an ICE car mindset. Charging is no more difficult than charging a phone once you have a home charger. Takes seconds to plug in, way more convenient than with an ICE car so I would recommend you reevaluate this. You need to get into the mindset of charging when electricity is cheap. We are on Octopus Go which means 5p per kw between 00.30 and 04.30 so we tend to charge little and often. In that 4 hour nighttime window we can add about 50% to the Zoe, which on average is about 100 miles of range. This represents about 25kW of power, which means a cost of £1.25 per 100 miles.

One feature I love about EVs is preconditioning. This can be programmed for set times or via a tapping a button on an app. Means you always get into a fully defrosted and warm car in the morning. On some cars this only works when the car is plugged in or battery is above a minimum state of charge. Hence many EV owners just plug in every night.

Thats good to know that maybe my perception of charging was skewed,

My main reason was of my housing situation, i dont personally pay for the electricity so maybe in my head i mean i only want to take the full charge once a week. So obviously taking 50kw over one night vs taking 10kw every week night shouldn't matter either way. Realistically i understand that i will have to plug in every night which shouldn't be too much fuss. i really hope to take advantage of preconditioning the car for when I get in.
Thats a massive selling point for me!!

If my housing situation changed and i was on the hook for the electricity i would definitely look into a tariff like what you recommended.

Thanks again. Your facts and figures really help me get to grips with real world usage and charging. (and will form my defence when the electricity usage increases and the fingers are pointed at my hastily camouflaged pod point)

[markedwards146]

Instavolt rapid chargers are 35p per kWh, and given a 3.5 mile per kWh energy usage (which is typical for an EV, but many can do more and some less) that equates to about 57 miles covered for the price of a gallon of petrol if that helps?

Charging at home of course, you’ll be paying more like 14p per kWh, so a lot cheaper. If you sign up to an EV home energy tariff you’ll pay only 5p per kWh for 4 hours per night, which on a 7kW home charge point would give you around 28kWh into your battery for £1.40, that’s about 98 miles or more than your daily commute.

The public rapid chargers are all about extending the range of your car beyond what it can carry on board, and make longer journeys possible, and still relatively low cost.

Thanks for the insight into instavolt. Its good to get an idea of costs, i will mostly be using overnight charging from wall box. Although will need to use public charge points on occasion.

[Sweepinghand]

Im not sure what world your i3 lives in, but it’s not going to touch a Golf R from the lights by anyone trying, and would only perform against an M4 in the worst possible conditions - it’s only quicker from 0-30kph (what’s that up to around 18.5mph), and then it’s virtually annihilated.

As for cold weather range. Even with battery conditioning, winter makes a huge difference to overall range compared to summer. Yes, even on the i3.

I can assure you I leave everything for dead in a straight line as no gear changes - real life battery range down about 25% in the real cold.....

Yes.... even in a Lille sickle i3 - happy to pee all over anything that isn’t electric from the lights through to about 70. But as ever...... I only own one a d do it so what would I know eh?



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[Man of Kent]

Im not sure what world your i3 lives in, but it’s not going to touch a Golf R from the lights by anyone trying, and would only perform against an M4 in the worst possible conditions - it’s only quicker from 0-30kph (what’s that up to around 18.5mph), and then it’s virtually annihilated.

As for cold weather range. Even with battery conditioning, winter makes a huge difference to overall range compared to summer. Yes, even on the i3.

The i3s (not the less sporty ones) will do 0-62mph in around 4.5 sec as opposed to 5.1 sec for the golf R

I thought the official 0-60, if such things matter, is 6.9s on the i3s?

Eh? Can someone explain all of this?

Sent from my XQ-AU51 using Tapatalk

[Kingstepper]

Eh? Can someone explain all of this?

Sent from my XQ-AU51 using Tapatalk

Boys and their toys.

[DONGinsler]

I find them just too expensive for the average buyer and only suitable in a warm climate where the car isn't going to rust due rain and snow/salting.

Average price in Canada for an all electric is $44,000 before 13% taxes

With snow and salt. Car will last about 15 years or so (last car I sold was 16 years with tiny rust on body spot). This cost me $22500

I can buy 2 gas cars for the price of an electric which is only good for city driving or semi short vacation spots. Not going to drive 3000 miles in it.

Better off with a hybrid model which makes use of both worlds. Neice drives a Prius and brother a Rav

DON

[bigweb]

I have an i3 and it’s a fantastic car.

Mine is one of the early ones so the winter range is about 60 miles which isn’t great but is fine for commuting.

I’ve also owned lots of fast cars including M3’s etc. It might beat one from the lights in a 30 zone but past 30 an M3/Golf R would walk it.

I think the thing which catches people off guard about electric cars is that because there isn’t a flurry of revs and wheel spin if you take off quickly, EV drivers tend to mash the peddle at most sets of lights they are at the front of.

This gives the impression that they are faster than they are.

[Dave+63]

I thought the official 0-60, if such things matter, is 6.9s on the i3s?

The first web site I found suggested a 0-62mph time of 4.5sec for the performance version. All other sources suggest 6.9 sec so I’m inclined to think that the 6.9 sec is correct as you suggest.

Whatever, the fact is that they’re great of the line and up to 30-40mph are generally quicker than even high performance saloons/hatchbacks.

There’s no way that they’ll stay out front up to and beyond 70mph though, that’s not what they’re designed for or at all relevant in normal, everyday driving.

[Tooks]

The first web site I found suggested a 0-62mph time of 4.5sec for the performance version. All other sources suggest 6.9 sec so I’m inclined to think that the 6.9 sec is correct as you suggest.

Whatever, the fact is that they’re great of the line and up to 30-40mph are generally quicker than even high performance saloons/hatchbacks.

There’s no way that they’ll stay out front up to and beyond 70mph though, that’s not what they’re designed for or at all relevant in normal, everyday driving.

I’m one of the converted, and addicted/afflicted!

I had an early i3 back in 2014, found it a bit quirky in the end, and my work requirements changed. I then switched to a Golf GTE which meant 60-70% of my mileage could be electric but I was covered for the 150 mile trips.

I swapped that for an e-Golf and started using the train for the long commute, and just before Christmas picked up a VW ID.3, which although still needs polishing software wise is proving to be an excellent car and will cover the long commute now that trains are a no go zone...

[julian2002]

No direct experience of the Pug but we ran a leaf a few years ago as a 2nd car.
The main uses of the leaf were the wifes commute from Bedford to Wolverton in Milton Keynes most nights, day in, day out summer and winter. This is a 40 mile round trip on fast A roads some country back roads and Milton Keynes roundabouts. Even in the depths of winter with all the heaters, lights and the rest going and a cold battery she never got close to worrying about the range. Other uses were mostly local weekend duties such as shopping, weekend kids clubs etc. again no range issues and bear in mind this was a mk1 leaf with the standard '100 mile' battery.
We loved it as it was nippy, and saved us a fortune in fuel costs. Gave it back at the end of the PCP as the depreciation was insane (a 30k+ car worth 6k after 2 years) things are better in this regard now as EV's are no longer 'weird' and as most are leased it's not really an issue other than as part of the lease cost. If our driving requirements ever match up or a tesla becomes a possibility then I'd jump at the chance of another ev.
It all hinges on if you can charge using a wall charger at home or not, if you can fill up overnight then it's great. If you have to rely on public chargers then maybe not so much.

[Omegamanic]

I can assure you I leave everything for dead in a straight line as no gear changes - real life battery range down about 25% in the real cold.....

Yes.... even in a Lille sickle i3 - happy to pee all over anything that isn’t electric from the lights through to about 70. But as ever...... I only own one a d do it so what would I know eh?



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Nonsense as usual. Not everyone is trying to “race away” at the lights. If they were you’d be comprehensively pee’d all over on a regular basis. The i3 is a nice nippy car, but don’t fool yourself.

& yes real owner noted range down somewhere between 25-50%, which is significant, and would make a difference for some buyers!

I also own a BMW with an electric motor. I don’t pretend that it will pee over other vehicles, away from traffic lights, or anywhere else for that matter, despite timed figures showing that it has a significantly quicker 0-30mph time than your i3 extender model.

[julian2002]

Nonsense as usual. Not everyone is trying to “race away” at the lights. If they were you’d be comprehensively pee’d all over on a regular basis. The i3 is a nice nippy car, but don’t fool yourself.

& yes real owner noted range down somewhere between 25-50%, which is significant, and would make a difference for some buyers!

I also own a BMW with an electric motor. I don’t pretend that it will pee over other vehicles, away from traffic lights, or anywhere else for that matter, despite timed figures showing that it has a significantly quicker 0-30mph time than your i3 extender model.

The leaf we had was a demon off the line up to about 40, I'm not going to claim that it'd slay any big dogs but my workmates chipped Audi TT 225 (about 280bhp claimed) was ruined by it off the line in a few impromptu traffic light grand prix, but yes, at about 45mph he came screaming past though.

Even my rx400h was faster than it had any right to be (certainly it was faster than my current Mercedes), and able to stay with a lot of far more exotic machinery up to legal speeds, an electric motor when implemented correctly goes a long way to level the playing field within it's operational parameters - the PSD/CVT/no gears at all also helps a lot - even a DSG loses you acceleration time and a traditional slushmatic? forget it.

[Omegamanic]

Agreed. Most, even seemingly commuter/city/shopping electrics are surprisingly quick to 30mph compared to ICEs.

[Sweepinghand]

Nonsense as usual. Not everyone is trying to “race away” at the lights. If they were you’d be comprehensively pee’d all over on a regular basis. The i3 is a nice nippy car, but don’t fool yourself.

& yes real owner noted range down somewhere between 25-50%, which is significant, and would make a difference for some buyers!

I also own a BMW with an electric motor. I don’t pretend that it will pee over other vehicles, away from traffic lights, or anywhere else for that matter, despite timed figures showing that it has a significantly quicker 0-30mph time than your i3 extender model.

I stand by my car all day long
I’m not up for “handbags” - but your patronising no all approach has some Cockney rhyming slang all over it

Drive what you like where you like - 50% off the battery? Ffs what a load of BS
If you have a plug in hybrid incy bit of leccy model - go big or go home... I’ll leave the conversation

[Omegamanic]

I stand by my car all day long
I’m not up for “handbags” - but your patronising no all approach has some Cockney rhyming slang all over it

Drive what you like where you like - 50% off the battery? Ffs what a load of BS
If you have a plug in hybrid incy bit of leccy model - go big or go home... I’ll leave the conversation

It’s far from a know it all approach, that’s your role. My stance is purely corrective, and telling like it is, and not allowing someone like you to spout your constant BS.

AAA carried out a study, which included your car, which shows a huge drop in range, 41% on average (if you used a heater, which I’m guessing you don’t have to, because you’re so full of hot air, and up to 50%. Yes, up to 50% less!). Now that’s quite useful information for someone considering buying an EV. At least much more useful than your full of Sh traffic light boasting. Maybe if you actually thought about what you’re going to say, and then did a bit of research - or just stopped living a fantasy life, you’d be able to add something useful.

Have a great week

[Pitch3110]

Anyway back on topic and off the winky waving, I think I would have to turn ac off, heated seats off, wack the psi up in the tyres and drive like miss daisy to get close to my claimed 329 range. Real world I can get low 200’s without even trying to be really really sensible. That’s in this cold weather it will be better once it warms up.

It’s very much the same with ICE cars there are just so many factors and will you ever get to the lab quoted economy.???Hope for 70% claimed and anything over is a bonus and charge at home and it will cost peanuts.

Not wanting to get dragged into the whole power thing, I have no ED, but the delivery of EV power is just so nice and the silence becomes addictive much the same as the induction noise through multi 45mm trumpets use to be for me, many years ago.

Oh, and play nicely.


Pitch

[Tooks]

Anyway back on topic and off the winky waving, I think I would have to turn ac off, heated seats off, wack the psi up in the tyres and drive like miss daisy to get close to my claimed 329 range. Real world I can get low 200’s without even trying to be really really sensible. That’s in this cold weather it will be better once it warms up.

It’s very much the same with ICE cars there are just so many factors and will you ever get to the lab quoted economy.???Hope for 70% claimed and anything over is a bonus and charge at home and it will cost peanuts.

Not wanting to get dragged into the whole power thing, I have no ED, but the delivery of EV power is just so nice and the silence becomes addictive much the same as the induction noise through multi 45mm trumpets use to be for me, many years ago.

Oh, and play nicely.


Pitch

In fairness Pitch, your Model 3 Performance would kill most things away from the lights! :)

It’s a fair point about winter range in EVs, and the petrol car equivalent. My old Golf GTI had an official mpg of 44, but I averaged 34, but nobody seems to worry about that. Likewise, my range was less in the winter, but because you’ve got so much energy and range in a tank of petrol it’s not an issue.

My ID.3 has an official WLTP range of 263, but at the moment in the freezing weather it’s more like 190 to a charge, so around 30% less, but that’s still more than enough for my longest journeys. As you say, come summer it’ll be well north of 200, and with the quicker charging on newer models a charge stop isn’t a chore. Even a quick 10 minute coffee/charge stop adds at least 50 miles of range, and Tesla’s are even quicker of course.

They’re now practical alternatives to ICE cars, but they do need to get a bit cheaper before they go mainstream.

[PipPip]

Our experience with an i3, a Model 3 LR and Zoe ZE50 is around 25-30% drop in range when temperatures hit around zero. That’s running heating, heated seats, heated steering wheel initially and doing typical mixed driving. Never experienced anything like a 50% drop in range but we live in Hampshire in England, not Canada or Norway, so can’t comment on what happens at temperatures below about -10C. We’ve never ever been remotely close to running out of battery, winter or summer though. I guess that’s because we know the range of our cars and reasonably organised sensible people. Likewise I never came close to running out of fuel in over 30 ICE cars I’ve owned before EVs.

[Pitch3110]

That’s pretty decent from your ID.3 Tooks mine is probably close to that.

As you mention and same for me the range is fine for my daily required range. Likewise the network is improving daily as is the speed of charge. Being way out east in Lowestoft all my routes back home from civilisation, A143, A12, A11, A47 all have decent charging stops.

You enjoying the ID.3?? Wifey’s last two cars being DSG Golf R’s, I really do miss V Dub.

Pitch

[Omegamanic]

VW ID3 sounds like it could be a good future commuter option, and still able to cope with the occasional higher mileage (for me at least) run. I have no intention of and limited ability for charging away from the home, and really need something that can easily last the day with its range. At a max of say 150-200 miles that’s probably the most I’d need.

The AAA study was widely reported, and maybe subject to temperatures lower than the UK, but still worth noting that winter and summer range may differ somewhat.

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/elec...her-aaa/65573/

http://bestride.com/news/aaa-study-s...-performs-best

“Among all of the five vehicles tested, the Nissan Leaf performed the best and had the lowest percent change in range due to cold weather and HVAC usage at about 32%. The BMW i3 performed the worst, with a range reduction of over 50%.”

[Tooks]

That’s pretty decent from your ID.3 Tooks mine is probably close to that.

As you mention and same for me the range is fine for my daily required range. Likewise the network is improving daily as is the speed of charge. Being way out east in Lowestoft all my routes back home from civilisation, A143, A12, A11, A47 all have decent charging stops.

You enjoying the ID.3?? Wifey’s last two cars being DSG Golf R’s, I really do miss V Dub.

Pitch

I am enjoying it, yes, I do like VWs and despite the software gremlins that should be fixed by the ME2.1 rollout sometime before March (C word notwithstanding) it should get even better.

It’s not perfect, but what car is, there’s some strange little decisions like not illuminating some of the haptic controls on the center console, and cold weather short range efficiency is low as the software warms the battery to 13c if you set off at less than 8c outside temp, presumably to nanny the batteries long term health, but overall I’m happy with it.

The 204bhp with a kerb weight of 1700 kg mean it’s merely swift rather than quick, but it goes, steers and stops well enough. I never thought I’d enjoy a heated steering wheel as much as I do either!

[Middo]

The iD3 looks like a proper solution now to a real world workhorse.

Some cheap deals on the Nissan Leaf at the moment too. Cheap motoring but limited range

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasin.../2-36-8000-1-0

[simonedgar]

Hi Tooks, interested which model you opted for ? I don’t see much real benefit looking at the models higher up the range, they don’t seem to offer much more that I’d be interested in. I’m thinking about jumping back into the company car scheme, BIK saving looks like a winner along the cost saving on fuel. Are the main niggles based around the software? Seems a lot of the online review highlight that as the main issue.
Thanks
Simon

I am enjoying it, yes, I do like VWs and despite the software gremlins that should be fixed by the ME2.1 rollout sometime before March (C word notwithstanding) it should get even better.

It’s not perfect, but what car is, there’s some strange little decisions like not illuminating some of the haptic controls on the center console, and cold weather short range efficiency is low as the software warms the battery to 13c if you set off at less than 8c outside temp, presumably to nanny the batteries long term health, but overall I’m happy with it.

The 204bhp with a kerb weight of 1700 kg mean it’s merely swift rather than quick, but it goes, steers and stops well enough. I never thought I’d enjoy a heated steering wheel as much as I do either!

[Skier]

A slightly different angle. My current vehicle ownership is from different ends of the spectrum: an Audi RS6 Performance that has been heavily breathed on with about 710bhp and 700lb/ft, and an electric motorbike - E-Rider Model 75. The bike is equivalent to a 125cc scooter, will do 75mph (and get there very quickly) and with a quoted range of 80 miles. It certainly won't make that range figure on my 18 mile commute to work as I'm predominantly travelling at 50 - 70mph but around town at slower speed I have achieved 80 miles though there was some range anxiety for the last few miles. However, it comfortably gets me to and from work and once parked in the garage simply plugs into a standard 13A wall socket and charges overnight; it only takes 6hrs to fully charge from empty.

[Omegamanic]

Both sounds very interesting, for different reasons obviously ;)

[Tooks]

Hi Tooks, interested which model you opted for ? I don’t see much real benefit looking at the models higher up the range, they don’t seem to offer much more that I’d be interested in. I’m thinking about jumping back into the company car scheme, BIK saving looks like a winner along the cost saving on fuel. Are the main niggles based around the software? Seems a lot of the online review highlight that as the main issue.
Thanks
Simon

I opted for a 1st Edition 58kWh battery version, there were some pretty good discounts available in late Nov and Dec, which tipped me over the edge.

There are still some good pre-registered offers around, and CarWow identifies plenty of dealers offering good discounts on factory orders, which are coming with better software out of the box.

Yes, all the niggles are software related, but I’m not suffering them really, just minor problems that don’t stop the car working, so I’m happy to wait for the software fixes.

[simonedgar]

I opted for a 1st Edition 58kWh battery version, there were some pretty good discounts available in late Nov and Dec, which tipped me over the edge.

There are still some good pre-registered offers around, and CarWow identifies plenty of dealers offering good discounts on factory orders, which are coming with better software out of the box.

Yes, all the niggles are software related, but I’m not suffering them really, just minor problems that don’t stop the car working, so I’m happy to wait for the software fixes.

All sounds very tempting! I’ve tried Carwow, they don’t get close to the equivalent cost of taking a company car on any pcp or lease deal which is a shame. Hopefully the upcoming software solves your last few issues.