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Thanks, best laugh I've had all week!Originally Posted by J J Carter
Given the parlous state of Treasury finances a 'super VAT' of 40% or more on imported luxury items can't be ruled out. My grandparents marred in the late 1940s and nan wore a platinum wedding ring as gold jewellery had a near 100% purchase-tax post-war.
Last edited by J J Carter; 2nd January 2021 at 18:58.
Thanks, best laugh I've had all week!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Why? Unless of course they were calling for more wine?
Otherwise they'd have the wrong answer again!
Last edited by oldoakknives; 3rd January 2021 at 01:29.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
This is getting messy. I’ve bought on the forum delivered to Ireland but now we have vat and import charges to deal with. Used to have parcel forwarders in NI but they have stopped. I’ve friends in. NI I can get stuff posted to and then they can post onto Dublin hassle free but it’s just awkward
I'm not seeing it on another steinhart from Germany, sterling amount alongside the postage with the euro cost underneath.
No mention of tax, I understand that it will be taxed here but the thread is suggesting eBay are adding the charge, it doesn't seem to be on private sales from the EU, unless I'm missing something.
Amazon uk is adding the tax from UK to Cyprus
No. It was only available without VAT if flying external to the EU, at least within the last 10 or so years. Some other brands continue to allow a discount equivalent to VAT no matter where you were flying though.
It's just a matter of time...
Just went through a test purchase process on the Sinn website, which states that no VAT will be charged on non-EU purchases, and in fact there's a specific reference to the UK. Two things I noted were:
1) Shipping charges have increased by €70 overnight. That's annoying.
2) Notwithstanding the statement about VAT mentioned above, the price showing at checkout was VAT inclusive right up to the time I would have then hit the "complete purchase" button. Not entirely reassuring but obviously I didn't go that extra step.
I'm fairly certain that if you had proceeded VAT would have been payable when the watch comes through customs even if they say it is not included on their website. I think that some companies have been quicker than others to update their systems.
Yes, I'm sure that's the case. However, my point was that they totally failed to show a VAT-exclusive price during the checkout process, right up to the point of hitting the buy button. For all I know I might have been charged the VAT-inclusive price and then faced a second round if VAT upon the watching hitting the UK shores.
What is pretty annoying is that we / they have had a year to get this right and clear, we have always been leaving the customs Union and so any ‘deal’ wouldn’t not have impacted these import arrangements and VAT, the deal was only always about tariffs.
Cheers..
Jase
Yes, agreed. All very unclear. I guess it will take a week or two until all this is resolved.
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That's about 62p annoying.
There wouldn't be vat charged on that item in the first place so nothing to deduct.
until the 'deal' was agreed, SME's knew absolutely nothing about what they needed to do. The UK Government kept sending out 'flyers' saying that a business should be ready but when you went on to the Governments own website there was no information at all. Even now, some of the .gov.uk pages still aren't up to date so we can't really expect businesses to be right on top of these things. Everyone should have a little patience and allow smaller businesses to catch up.
I'm sure you're aware (from reading your posts) but some aren't that the vat situation is relatively simple. When we were part of the EU, to simplify vat arrangements, the vat was charged at the point of sale for retail sales. So if you purchased an item in France, you would be charged vat in that country but then charged nothing in duty or vat in the UK. Similarly if a French person purchased something from the UK, they would pay UK vat. That's changed now as we've left the EU, there isn't a mutual arrangement so if you purchase an item from an EU country, they should deduct their vat at the point of sale and then you should be charged it by UK customs in the same way that it would happen for countries outside the EU. The only exception to this is due to technology. If a company has an online presence that acts as a supplier in the UK but the company is based in Germany for instance, the online presence will charge the VAT to the retail customer and pay that to HMRC on the retail customers behalf. So there's no difference to the retail customer on paper, simply that the online retailer is showing the vat at the point of sale rather than UK customs taking it at the point of import. It may appear slightly confusing as the same item could appear to have two different prices depending on whether you're purchasing directly from the EU or from a UK based website but the end result should be the same - in theory.
Last edited by theancientmariner; 3rd January 2021 at 13:03.
This. Can't see what all the fuss is about, except people don't understand what will happen.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Very true.
From the 'Brexit' perspective, it's no different to a Government/Shadow Government argument except that this decision can't be changed so we all have to get used to it, whichever way we voted. From an EU perspective, anyone who thinks that the UK will have full control any time soon is sadly mistaken. We've had decades worth of rules and regs to get used to and they don't just end instantly. Fishing (commercial), Finance, Travel, Manufacturing etc. are all going to evolve over time. I doubt that anything significant will change on a personal level in the short term so best to just relax and go with the flow.
I have no intention of buying a new watch from anywhere outside the UK, if I ever buy another again!
edit "new" as in any watch
Last edited by Stanford; 3rd January 2021 at 13:26.
I'm not Nostradamus, but there are bound to be unexpected results and unintended consequences from all this, which will keep the pot boiling away! Clearly, hardly anyone was aware of the VAT changes before they happened. And of course this deal is only for 5 years, so it will have to renegotiated or at least reviewed in 2025. And then of course, the Scottish independence debate will ignite again soon (fueled by Brexit), plus the position of Northern Ireland.....
Annoying? Understatement! How could anyone charge €70 for shipping at all, let alone an increase of €70? Do they deliver them by personal delivery in chauffeur driven Mercedes?
My point was, if you buy say a watch from someone in the EU and it’s sent over here, you pay vat on the value, in much the same way as you have to take that into account when you buy from the USA or Japan now, we can see that EU VAT registered business will deduct the VAT when exporting but a private seller won’t drop the price to account for our import VAT.
Cheers..
Jase
You’re supposed to be grumpy but not silly. 62p is hardly Mercedes driven personal delivery material.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
62 Cents or Euros? Some confusion here.
Surely the 70 Euro reference is in regards to this?
It's Euros!
Precisely. Absolutely no way I'd buy from Sinn direct now - that's just extortion and to all intents and purposes is equivalent to a tariff.Surely the 70 Euro reference is in regards to this?
Think you used unusual symbol for euro hence misunderstanding.
Is expensive though (but presumably same as to, even closer, Switzerland)!
€50 is extortionate never mind the €70 extra for non-EU!
No, they now have to supply extra paperwork, ie customs declarations etc with the relevant figures, and use a shipping agent to control them. Another site I've used in the past offered free delivery over £50. That's no longer the case on their UK or IE sites, it's UPS delivery (£11.90) or nothing. All their other sites, in the EU, are still offering free delivery for purchases over €50.
That's no drop in price on the website, increased delivery charges and VAT to pay on import for the UK.
When you log on to Steinhart make sure you launch English.
Example Ocean 39 Ceramic €610
Underneath states without tax €525.86
This is where buyers in the UK will miss out as they will pay VAT on private sales now. It’s going to be a slimmer market for those private sellers selling in the EU. I never bought from the US due to never knowing the exact end out figure so now the EU will be on my non buying list, no big loss to me. You can always wait for hols and then buy.
Last edited by hilly10; 3rd January 2021 at 15:07.
Does the extra €70 pay for VAT then?
No.
The VAT will still be charged by the customs. You'll have to pay it before goods are released.
I think this is the major change. Businesses should be able to mitigate the VAT situation by discounting local VAT and letting the customer pick this up on import (in both directions). Those who are buying new from the manufacturer or from VAT registered businesses shouldn’t worry, I’m sure it will settle down once all the new bureaucracy is worked out (shipping concerns aside)
However, private sales across the continent will suffer. A used / vintage watch in the Netherlands being sold by a private collector will now cost 20% more than it did before. I’m not sure how big that market is, but to me, it’s put a sting on buying from the EU.
Some will probably count this as a great way of supporting the national economy, I think it’s a shame and a loss to the hobby.
Tony, from this article, it is looking like any EU retailer who wants to sell to the UK will need to have a UK Vat account ('small' admin fee payable).
https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-b...cept-uk-279779
Looks like the easier option is to not bother, or charge a premium for UK sales. All you need is a list of all the countries in the world, with the UK crossed out. Less choice, more cost. Marvellous.
Our Accounting firm advises that the UK Gov will not even finalise the new VAT rules for sales into the UK until the end of February (!). For sales made before then, any wrong assumptions on the application of VAT will see companies liable for the shortfall.
But the foriners won’t be buying ours.
Have you proceeded through to checkout? Still seems to be applying ‘tax’ for a UK delivery address.
There was an article in the Sunday Times on this very issue. Some European businesses are still waiting for their VAT number from HMRC. Others, understandably, can't be bothered.
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Ah! So this is what 'Taking back control' means....
Re the 70 Euro delivery charge you would.pay VAT on that also.so it is actually 84 Euros or around £75!
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Valid point and part of becoming autonomous I'm afraid.
The private seller's price should already be 20% lower because there is no VAT in his price.
From a Dutch website.
The company sells bicycle parts worldwide
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping
Britain in 2021
Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty due to Brexit surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.
Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.
Last edited by Kevin; 3rd January 2021 at 18:19.
There is and he paid it when he bought it new. The fact is the UK will charge VAT again when it arrives into the UK is not the seller's problem. For example you sell a Speedy Pro for £3k pre owned. Are you going to knock the equivalent of French import VAT off because someone in France bought it? Where would you be able to get that VAT back? You wouldn't. Hence your 2nd hand watch becomes 20% more expensive for everyone apart from UK purchasers
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Is it really going to be a loss to the hobby? It simply means that pre-owned watches from Europe will cost 20 percent more and if you're going to the effort of buying from Europe, is 20 percent going to put you off? The only people it will put off is those trying to save money by buying from Europe but for those who want a watch, is a £5k watch that will now cost £6k going to put you off? Certainly hasn't affected the brands with artificially high pre-owned values over the years.
Someone I know was stopped at customs yesterday, van searched and was charged vat on a spare car battery they had just bought in Germany as the one fitted was not charging whilst driving. They were also asked about the origins of a toolkit they had.
He is Polish and made a living buying used car parts in UK and selling them in Poland, business is now instantly unviable and he’s going to move back to Poland after ten years in UK.
Please explain how it is now unviable. The costs to him for buying parts in the UK and exporting haven't changed.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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