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Thread: Getting the same for less.

  1. #1
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Getting the same for less.

    Thought it might be a bit of fun to pair up watches where one is considerably more expensive than the other but where the quality is comparable (or at least very very close) and the watches are the same type of watch. So it isn't a 'poor man's X' comparison but rather where subjectively both watches are equally/almost capable.

    This is just a bit of fun so hopefully this doesnt go off the rails.

    I'll kick off

    Rolex Daytona - Omega Speedmaster Professional

    AP Royal Oak - Girard Perregaux Laureato

    Patek Philippe Calatrava - Moser&Cie Mayu






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  2. #2
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    How about:

    Patek Aquatimer - Piaget Polo S or Moser Streamliner Center Seconds

    Simon

  3. #3
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    I thinks it’s a good idea for a thread as it may highlight alternatives. Whilst trying to avoid the obvious Rolex v Tudor and not wanting to start the same old arguments...

    The 5 digit Submariner vs the MM300 (The MM is a better watch in my opinion)

    Modern Submariner - Omega Seamaster 300 Master Chronometer

    The Navitimer vs the Sinn 903 (I would say the 903 is superior to the 7750 powered navitimer)

    Omega Seamaster (Bond era) vs the CWC diver. The CWC is at least 95% of the quality of the Seamaster. Bezel action can sometimes let it down but that’s about it along with the original mineral glass.

    Omega Speedmaster vs Fortis B42 - only one was specifically designed for space travel and it’s the better watch.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 26th December 2020 at 17:59.

  4. #4
    a seiko marinemaster 300 vs a rolex submariner (i own multiples of both)
    A grande seiko dive watch vs blancpain fifty fathoms (owned 2 of the latter but i sold them, and kept the higher quality grand seiko)
    an SKX009 with pre-ceramic rolex subs

  5. #5
    Master Murdoc's Avatar
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    Patek Nautilus 5711 or GO Seventies

  6. #6
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    Rolex sea-dweller - tudor Pelagos

    Technically both very similar (if you ignore that the tudor is made of titanium)




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  7. #7
    Good idea for a thread.

    Rolex Submariner 14060M vs Tudor Black Bay 58. I have both and in all respects much prefer the BB58.

    Ryan the Calatrava vs Moser Mayu is in my view on the money. I remember trying on a couple of the basic three hander Calatrava models and thinking “no thanks, I will keep my Moser Mayu”.

  8. #8
    Craftsman jonasy's Avatar
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    ALS 1 - GO Panoreserve

  9. #9
    Master Gavbaz's Avatar
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    Getting the same for less.

    Omega speedmaster or Sinn 356 (or maybe a 103).

    Obviously one dines out on going to the moon but the 356 gives the same vintage vibe at a better size!

    That said you can operate this the other way.

    Daytona vs Speedy!
    Last edited by Gavbaz; 26th December 2020 at 18:13.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jonasy View Post
    ALS 1 - GO Panoreserve
    And quite frankly the GO is a better balanced watch; plus the date numerals line up. The Lange big dates drives me mad!

  11. #11
    Rolex explorer 39mm = Tudor Black Bay 41mm

  12. #12
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Thought it might be a bit of fun to pair up watches where one is considerably more expensive than the other but where the quality is comparable (or at least very very close) and the watches are the same type of watch. So it isn't a 'poor man's X' comparison but rather where subjectively both watches are equally/almost capable.

    This is just a bit of fun so hopefully this doesnt go off the rails.

    I'll kick off

    Rolex Daytona - Omega Speedmaster Professional

    AP Royal Oak - Girard Perregaux Laureato

    Patek Philippe Calatrava - Moser&Cie Mayu

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Ryan, if you genuinely think that the Speedy is the equivalent of the Daytona then I’d have to question all the other dogmatic statements you make about numerous brands and models. The Speedy movement is effectively the 861 and is unchanged since the mid-90’s; the cal. 4130 is technically superior to it in so many ways that there’s not even a discussion to be had about it.

    Movement aside, the Rolex wins in almost every other area too. 904L steel case, ceramic bezel, white gold hands, white gold indices, micro-adjustable bracelet with fliplock clasp... you’d have to be seriously deluded to contend that the Speedy - whilst being a superb watch and a true icon - is superior in any way. It’s not even decent value any more.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 26th December 2020 at 19:51.

  13. #13
    Master daveyw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdoc View Post
    Patek Nautilus 5711 or GO Seventies
    Ooh, can’t have that one. Sorry

  14. #14
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Ryan, if you genuinely think that the Speedy is the equivalent of the Daytona then I’d have to question all the other dogmatic statements you make about numerous brands and models. The Speedy movement is effectively the 861 and is unchanged since the mid-90’s; the cal. 4130 is technically superior to it in so many ways that there’s not even a discussion to be had about it.

    Movement aside, the Rolex wins in almost every other area too. 904L steel case, ceramic bezel, white gold hands, white gold indices, micro-adjustable bracelet with fliplock clasp... you’d have to be seriously deluded to contend that the Speedy - whilst being a superb watch and a true icon - is superior in any way. It’s not even decent value any more.
    I'd agree on the the technical side of things(although the 4130 is a relatively ancient movement now) however when it comes to the whole package where I see the Speedy ahead of the Daytona is in historical significance and heritage. It is a piece of history on the wrist. And that's part of the package too. So for anyone buying a chronograph I'd say the Daytona is ahead on fit and finish and the Speedy is ahead on history and horological importance. Whether one out ranks the other is up to the individual but I'd say a Speedy attracts at least as much horological appreciation as a Daytona.

    Anyway this thread is just a bit of fun. It isn't aimed at being anything other than a bit of discussion.

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    Last edited by ryanb741; 26th December 2020 at 20:13.

  15. #15
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'd agree on the the technical side of things(although the 4130 is a relatively ancient movement now) however when it comes to the whole package where I see the Speedy ahead of the Daytona is in historical significance and heritage. It is a piece of history on the wrist. And that's part of the package too. So for anyone buying a chronograph I'd say the Daytona is ahead on fit and finish and the Speedy is ahead on history and horological importance. Whether one out ranks the other is up to the individual but I'd say a Speedy attracts at least as much horological appreciation as a Daytona.

    Anyway this thread is just a bit of fun. It isn't aimed at being anything other than a bit of discussion.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Yes, the Speedy’s heritage is impeccable (albeit grossly over egged by Omega), I’ll give you that. And yes, a bit of fun, so apologies if I overreacted a tad :)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Ryan, if you genuinely think that the Speedy is the equivalent of the Daytona then I’d have to question all the other dogmatic statements you make about numerous brands and models. The Speedy movement is effectively the 861 and is unchanged since the mid-90’s; the cal. 4130 is technically superior to it in so many ways that there’s not even a discussion to be had about it.

    Movement aside, the Rolex wins in almost every other area too. 904L steel case, ceramic bezel, white gold hands, white gold indices, micro-adjustable bracelet with fliplock clasp... you’d have to be seriously deluded to contend that the Speedy - whilst being a superb watch and a true icon - is superior in any way. It’s not even decent value any more.
    To be fair, I’d pick the Speedy Pro over any Daytona based on looks alone. IMHO, the Speedy’s a superior looking watch.


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  17. #17
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I haven't bothered to check but if we're talking about "history", then Ryan has a point as ISTR the Daytona failed Nasa's test.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  18. #18
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lughugger View Post
    To be fair, I’d pick the Speedy Pro over any Daytona based on looks alone. IMHO, the Speedy’s a superior looking watch.


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    That’s just a matter of personal taste though. I wouldn’t so that makes the Daytona a superior looking watch too

  19. #19
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Yes, the Speedy’s heritage is impeccable (albeit grossly over egged by Omega), I’ll give you that. And yes, a bit of fun, so apologies if I overreacted a tad :)
    No worries Tony. Hope you are well and that 2021 is a much better year so we can see some more of your awesome incoming photos :)

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  20. #20
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    Tudor BB58 or Seiko SPB147

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by minskii View Post
    Tudor BB58 or Seiko SPB147
    The Seiko is a very good watch, but IMHO not a case of the "same for less" with.a BB58.

  22. #22
    Master witti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    I thinks it’s a good idea for a thread as it may highlight alternatives. Whilst trying to avoid the obvious Rolex v Tudor and not wanting to start the same old arguments...

    The 5 digit Submariner vs the MM300 (The MM is a better watch in my opinion)

    Modern Submariner - Omega Seamaster 300 Master Chronometer

    The Navitimer vs the Sinn 903 (I would say the 903 is superior to the 7750 powered navitimer)

    Omega Seamaster (Bond era) vs the CWC diver. The CWC is at least 95% of the quality of the Seamaster. Bezel action can sometimes let it down but that’s about it along with the original mineral glass.

    Omega Speedmaster vs Fortis B42 - only one was specifically designed for space travel and it’s the better watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    I thinks it’s a good idea for a thread as it may highlight alternatives. Whilst trying to avoid the obvious Rolex v Tudor and not wanting to start the same old arguments...

    The 5 digit Submariner vs the MM300 (The MM is a better watch in my opinion)

    Modern Submariner - Omega Seamaster 300 Master Chronometer

    The Navitimer vs the Sinn 903 (I would say the 903 is superior to the 7750 powered navitimer)

    Omega Seamaster (Bond era) vs the CWC diver. The CWC is at least 95% of the quality of the Seamaster. Bezel action can sometimes let it down but that’s about it along with the original mineral glass.

    Omega Speedmaster vs Fortis B42 - only one was specifically designed for space travel and it’s the better watch.
    Sinn 903 used to be comparable to Navitimer when they used the same Lemania movement. Not sure since Sinn is using 7753 and Breitling has an in-house chronograph movement which is superior.

    In case of the Speedmaster, if we really have to compare to the Fortis then it has to be the original Fortis Cosmonauts Chronograph with the Lemania 5100 which was approved for space travel rather than the B42 IMO.


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  23. #23
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    Citizen A609 Chronomaster - Citizen A501 Exceed.

    It's the only reason I don't own a Chronomaster!

    Eddies PRS-14 against the NOS Omega Seamaster. Apart from the movement and a bit of height, it's a better watch in every way. I'd not use the Omega at 40M.
    Last edited by M4tt; 26th December 2020 at 22:28.

  24. #24
    Craftsman Rbains0708's Avatar
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    Getting the same for less.

    How about....a Rolex explorer 2 16570 or GMT master 2 16710? Both had the same 3185 Movement but the only difference is the bezel,but the 16710 is a lot more. I know I’m the first one to compare two watches of the same brand


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  25. #25
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witti View Post
    Sinn 903 used to be comparable to Navitimer when they used the same Lemania movement. Not sure since Sinn is using 7753 and Breitling has an in-house chronograph movement which is superior.

    In case of the Speedmaster, if we really have to compare to the Fortis then it has to be the original Fortis Cosmonauts Chronograph with the Lemania 5100 which was approved for space travel rather than the B42 IMO.


    Sent from my SM-A202F using TZ-UK mobile app
    I have tried to be objective in my thinking.

    The 7750 series powered 903 and navitimer are very similar but the layout of the dials on the 903 along with the improved water resistance, screw down crown, display back, all trump the navitimer. I have owned a 7750 powered Navitimer, I still own a 903.

    I have both the Speedy Pro and the B42 and in my opinion the B42 is the better watch, it’s better built, has better water resistance, has a better bracelet, better more adjustable clasp, sapphire crystal with good AR coating, solid screw bars instead of spring bars. The area it fails in comparison to the speedy is lume. I love my speedmaster but if I were after a watch to wear everyday it would be the B42. (I would not get rid of my Speedmaster though.)

  26. #26




    Two Seiko Prospex, one is £1200, the other I've seen for around £250. No idea why? Every time I see a new Seiko released I don't know whether it's going to be the price of a meal, or the price of a car.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Ryan, if you genuinely think that the Speedy is the equivalent of the Daytona then I’d have to question all the other dogmatic statements you make about numerous brands and models. The Speedy movement is effectively the 861 and is unchanged since the mid-90’s; the cal. 4130 is technically superior to it in so many ways that there’s not even a discussion to be had about it.

    Movement aside, the Rolex wins in almost every other area too. 904L steel case, ceramic bezel, white gold hands, white gold indices, micro-adjustable bracelet with fliplock clasp... you’d have to be seriously deluded to contend that the Speedy - whilst being a superb watch and a true icon - is superior in any way. It’s not even decent value any more.
    spot on. that

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'd agree on the the technical side of things(although the 4130 is a relatively ancient movement now) however when it comes to the whole package where I see the Speedy ahead of the Daytona is in historical significance and heritage. It is a piece of history on the wrist. And that's part of the package too. So for anyone buying a chronograph I'd say the Daytona is ahead on fit and finish and the Speedy is ahead on history and horological importance. Whether one out ranks the other is up to the individual but I'd say a Speedy attracts at least as much horological appreciation as a Daytona.

    Anyway this thread is just a bit of fun. It isn't aimed at being anything other than a bit of discussion.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    I can accept that it is technically different, 904L, for example, but superior really only happens in real use in the real world. How is it actually superior outside of a Hodinkee advertorial?

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by minskii View Post
    Tudor BB58 or Seiko SPB147
    In my personal experience, the Seiko is nowhere near the quality of Tudor. It's a lovely watch, but I'd say the Tudor is a Bargain at £2760 where the Seiko is quite overpriced at around £1k.

  30. #30
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    Getting the same for less.

    No disrespect to the speedy pro, a great watch and the moon history is phenomenal, but as a former and current owner of both, the Daytona is miles better in every way. Also some find the speedy look too geeky where as Daytona is always cool.

    A great alternative to a Rolex Explorer 1016 is a vintage military issue Smiths W10. Real military issue watch vs tribute watch to Everest expedition where it may or may not have been worn at the summit. Having said that, the 1016 just looks better.
    Last edited by ac11111; 26th December 2020 at 23:52.

  31. #31
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    Are we allowing homages? If so, the Rolex 5 digit Sub vs Ginault Ocean Rover.

  32. #32
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    ALS 1815 rattrapante at £110k vs PP 5370 at £211k. No rational argument for the PP surely?

  33. #33
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac11111 View Post
    No disrespect to the speedy pro, a great watch and the moon history is phenomenal, but as a former and current owner of both, the Daytona is miles better in every way. Also some find the speedy look too geeky where as Daytona is always cool.

    A great alternative to a Rolex Explorer 1016 is a vintage military issue Smiths W10. Real military issue watch vs tribute watch to Everest expedition where it may or may not have been worn at the summit. Having said that, the 1016 just looks better.
    I'd genuinely disagree here but that's fine. IMHO the Speedy is the nicest looking chrono - it has a huge advantage over the Daytona in so far as you can actually tell the time on it (and certainly you could tell the time elapsed at a glance on the chrono registers).

    Daytona is for sure nicely made, swankier movement etc (and I've owned several of the SS models over time also) but I'd say a fundamental functionality of a watch is to tell the time and core functionality of a chronograph is to measure elapsed time in a very legible manner and I would respectfully say here that the Daytona doesn't do as good a job as the Speedy (or many other chronos also) as the dial is so hard to read. As a sports watch it isn't a very good one even though it looks great and is one of my favourite Rolexes. As jewellery it is bang on and for sure better than a Speedy Pro. Would you rely on it in space? No chance. So as a functional chronograph the Speedy Pro is better than the Daytona. NASA came to the same decision of course.

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    Last edited by ryanb741; 27th December 2020 at 01:17.

  34. #34
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    Two Seiko Prospex, one is £1200, the other I've seen for around £250. No idea why? Every time I see a new Seiko released I don't know whether it's going to be the price of a meal, or the price of a car.
    I think the price of your meals is stopping you from buying better cars.

  35. #35
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    Getting the same for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'd genuinely disagree here but that's fine. IMHO the Speedy is the nicest looking chrono - it has a huge advantage over the Daytona in so far as you can actually tell the time on it (and certainly you could tell the time elapsed at a glance on the chrono registers).

    Daytona is for sure nicely made, swankier movement etc (and I've owned several of the SS models over time also) but I'd say a fundamental functionality of a watch is to tell the time and core functionality of a chronograph is to measure elapsed time in a very legible manner and I would respectfully say here that the Daytona doesn't do as good a job as the Speedy (or many other chronos also) as the dial is so hard to read. As a sports watch it isn't a very good one even though it looks great and is one of my favourite Rolexes. As jewellery it is bang on and for sure better than a Speedy Pro. Would you rely on it in space? No chance. So as a functional chronograph the Speedy Pro is better than the Daytona. NASA came to the same decision of course.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    I can honestly say I’ve never had any issues reading the time on any watch, although I mainly read the time on my phone, I just look at my watch to admire its beauty! I also never use the chronograph function.

  36. #36
    Daytona - Breitling B01

    Patek 5711 - Datejust
    It's just a matter of time...

  37. #37
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    Zenith Defy Classic to me is very close to the AP RO, and in all likelihood just as well put together.

  38. #38
    How are we defining quality?
    Technical - e.g.accuracy.. Precision?
    Materials - e.g.steel, gold?
    Others....?

  39. #39
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'd genuinely disagree here but that's fine. IMHO the Speedy is the nicest looking chrono - it has a huge advantage over the Daytona in so far as you can actually tell the time on it (and certainly you could tell the time elapsed at a glance on the chrono registers).

    Daytona is for sure nicely made, swankier movement etc (and I've owned several of the SS models over time also) but I'd say a fundamental functionality of a watch is to tell the time and core functionality of a chronograph is to measure elapsed time in a very legible manner and I would respectfully say here that the Daytona doesn't do as good a job as the Speedy (or many other chronos also) as the dial is so hard to read. As a sports watch it isn't a very good one even though it looks great and is one of my favourite Rolexes. As jewellery it is bang on and for sure better than a Speedy Pro. Would you rely on it in space? No chance. So as a functional chronograph the Speedy Pro is better than the Daytona. NASA came to the same decision of course.

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    You're right, Ryan - the Daytona is unsuitable for space walking with no NASA approval, so is obviously inferior

  40. #40
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Getting the same for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    You're right, Ryan - the Daytona is unsuitable for space walking with no NASA approval, so is obviously inferior
    No, it WAS inferior because at the time it failed where the speedmaster didn’t. This is why it didn’t get NASA approval. (and yes, the test was carried with a sample of one watch)

    Of course, things have changed significantly at Rolex since. Not so much on the speedmaster front.

    And the Rolex has decent water resistance. You need a seamaster chrono to get that at Omega.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  41. #41
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    You're right, Ryan - the Daytona is unsuitable for space walking with no NASA approval, so is obviously inferior
    Ha! Although the way I use my Speedy I should rename it 'Ovenmaster' :)

  42. #42
    Have to agree about the speedmaster, as I said in another thread it’s a 2K watch at best. Lovely bit of history and lovely watch but in build etc no better than any number of 2 - 3k chronograph watches out there. A better comparison would certainly be with Fortis than a Daytona.

  43. #43
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    No, it WAS inferior because at the time it failed where the speedmaster didn’t. This is why it didn’t get NASA approval. (and yes, the test was carried with a sample of one watch)

    Of course, things have changed significantly at Rolex since. Not so much on the speedmaster front.

    And the Rolex has decent water resistance. You need a seamaster chrono to get that at Omega.

    Interestingly it is supposed that the Daytona was given the name 'Daytona Cosmograph' as a means of trying to ingratiate it with NASA at a time when the space race with Russia was big news. Obviously it didn't pan out as intended but I did read that's where the Cosmograph part of the name comes from.

    Anyway back to the original topic;

    Breitling Chrono Avenger - Guinand Starfighter

  44. #44
    Master colin t's Avatar
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    There is also discussion to be had here in terms of respective ‘quality’, but these two certainly equivalent from a functionality point of view.

    My personal preference is for the 16570 (size considerations are a part of this, as are simple aesthetics) but the Omega offers a couple of attributes that could be seen as being advantageous by some: rotating bezel and higher water resistance.


  45. #45
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    Having owned both of these there is no way one is worth over double the cost of the other...in fact i preferred the Omega.




  46. #46
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I really don't like those Omega hands. The swords of an earlier generation were much nicer to my eyes.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  47. #47
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    Getting the same for less.

    GS - Sarb033

    and a stolen insta pic

    Last edited by ac11111; 27th December 2020 at 10:36.

  48. #48
    Craftsman jonasy's Avatar
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    Rolex Oyster Perpetual - Grand Seiko SBGR253
    King Seiko re-issue - The original King Seiko 44-9990 :D

  49. #49
    I don’t currently own either (however, I did in the past) but I can’t see how most B&R could be nicer than a £500 (after discounts) Christopher Ward.


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  50. #50
    Grand Master TaketheCannoli's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Zeno PRS-3 vs CWC RN diver. Both quartz from reputable brands yet the CWC is double the price of the Zeno.

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