Sales Corner post Brexit

[walkerwek1958]

You too are mistaken. I did not brag about it nor did I share the scheme.

So why bring it up?

[tmoris]

So why bring it up?

Seeing many people discuss how its going to work post brexit, I mentioned this thinking that should people be interested in it I might share the insight (learnt years ago from a US counterpart). This not being the case I shall not disclose it..

[MartynJC (UK)]

Maybe if you personally visit a shop they’ll do the paperwork but I’ve never known foreign websites (US, Australian, Japanese etc) to deduct local VAT, they just aren’t set up to do so.

Sorry, my bad (yuck) - US does not have VAT, and Sales Tax is state specific - and zero if in Oragon, Alaska and New Hampshire - so I guess head to websites for stores in those states for the best deals, but still need to pay the UK VAT on import though :-)

[robt]

OK, here's a tangential question since we're discussing customs declarations on secondhand goods: what happens if someone has bought say, a Sinn or a Steinhart and sends it back for repair or service? How do you make sure that when it comes back it has the proper declaration? And what should that declaration even be, for something you already own? Or similarly if you want to send a vintage piece to a specialist watchmaker in the EU? I'd imagine that's different again.

AFAIK if customs intercept something with a missing or incorrect declaration, they can apply any estimated value to the goods they see fit. So you could conceivably end up having to pay VAT repeatedly on the same item if you have to send it overseas several times for any reason.

[JasonM]

^ There is a specific ‘temporary export’ form that covers those situations. ( assuming it’s now valid for the EU zone)

[sweets]

The issue of value discrepancy between the carrier and any seconday insurer is a really interesting one, especially as we nowmust affix a customs declarations for all goods going to the EC.
As Ryan suggests, the seconday insurer wants the declared value to be minimised as a higher declared value creates more temptation to steal from the carrier's depot.
Especially if the insurance is "invisible" to the carrier (like Secursus, which is just bought afterwards, and not labelled on the package).
To the point where the secondary cover is invalid if the value esceeds a threshold?

But the (now compulsory) customs declaration requires the value to be accurate.

So it is perfectly possible that a tracked and signed for courier method that is usually reserved for carrying items under, say, £100 value is used, validly, for higher value items like watches.
As the item is worth many multiples of the service's intended compensation limit, it is insured with a third party.

This previously would have gone unnoticed within the EC, with no customs declaration, and any thieves in the sorting offices had no idea what they were handling.

Now though, it cannot go anywhere without the form attached, so the scale of the temptation is there for all to see, which is bound to lead to more theft, as well as unwelcome charges.

I just sent a watch to Ireland, doing exactly this, feeling very queasy about it.
I hope it gets there.
It may be that if I did the same next week, the buyer would also have to pay VAT on arrival, based on the same customs declaration..........

Dave

[mtagrant]

Sorry, my bad (yuck) - US does not have VAT, and Sales Tax is state specific - and zero if in Oragon, Alaska and New Hampshire - so I guess head to websites for stores in those states for the best deals, but still need to pay the UK VAT on import though :-)

Often looking on Chrono24, prices in the US seem very competitive. Now that there will be a need to add VAT for EU purchases, I will be looking more at US dealers.

No sales tax in Delaware either

[robt]

^ There is a specific ‘temporary export’ form that covers those situations. ( assuming it’s now valid for the EU zone)

Is this the process you mean? https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to...cess-or-repair

That sounds complex. Also the phrase "reduce your duty payments" sounds ominous.

[robt]

The issue of value discrepancy between the carrier and any seconday insurer is a really interesting one...

Indeed, IIRC ParcelPro actually requires as one of their terms of insurance that you do not declare the full value of the watch or say what it is anywhere on the packaging. So this raises the problem that if you comply with their terms you are breaking the law, but if you don't comply with their terms you are not insured. That seems like a problem they will need to resolve themselves, or there would be no point in using their service.

[gerard]

Sorry, my bad (yuck) - US does not have VAT, and Sales Tax is state specific - and zero if in Oragon, Alaska and New Hampshire - so I guess head to websites for stores in those states for the best deals, but still need to pay the UK VAT on import though :-)

Usually US State sales tax is only applicable for in state purchase (or used to be). So mail order should be exempt. Hence why you often see the words .... Cal residents add 8% or whatever.
When I lived in Connecticut and worked in NYC I would buy in store and pay for home delivery as it saved on the sales tax.

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[murkeywaters]

Often looking on Chrono24, prices in the US seem very competitive. Now that there will be a need to add VAT for EU purchases, I will be looking more at US dealers.

No sales tax in Delaware either

Currently the Pound has been doing well against the Dollar so naturally US prices look favourable, but import/VAT will soon add to that saving..

[learningtofly]

OK, here's a tangential question since we're discussing customs declarations on secondhand goods: what happens if someone has bought say, a Sinn or a Steinhart and sends it back for repair or service? How do you make sure that when it comes back it has the proper declaration? And what should that declaration even be, for something you already own? Or similarly if you want to send a vintage piece to a specialist watchmaker in the EU? I'd imagine that's different again.

AFAIK if customs intercept something with a missing or incorrect declaration, they can apply any estimated value to the goods they see fit. So you could conceivably end up having to pay VAT repeatedly on the same item if you have to send it overseas several times for any reason.

^ There is a specific ‘temporary export’ form that covers those situations. ( assuming it’s now valid for the EU zone)

Definitely makes sending watches for service via a UK AD a more attractive option than it already was.

Another thing - I imagine that the habit of taking multiple watches on holidays within the EU will be reassessed to mitigate any potential risk.

[Dan83bz]

Definitely makes sending watches for service via a UK AD a more attractive option than it already was.

Another thing - I imagine that the habit of taking multiple watches on holidays within the EU will be reassessed to mitigate any potential risk.

As long as you don't plan to take mint watches with boxes, tags and everything, I doubt it could be an issue. I'm certain the truly well-off folks that travel (yacht, private jet) with their precious wrist ornaments in tow are not being assessed for duty every time they cross a border.

Usually US State sales tax is only applicable for in state purchase (or used to be). So mail order should be exempt. Hence why you often see the words .... Cal residents add 8% or whatever.
When I lived in Connecticut and worked in NYC I would buy in store and pay for home delivery as it saved on the sales tax.

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Those days are long gone:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...-sales-n873416

[mtagrant]

Currently the Pound has been doing well against the Dollar so naturally US prices look favourable, but import/VAT will soon add to that saving..

True, although I have been looking over a number of years at some more expensive pieces, and they can be had a lot cheaper in the US. Even with the import / VAT added, they may still be competitive, and certainly better priced than from the EU

[redmonaco]

Gov. states this:

------------------------------ (which is surely in line with the brexit deal now agreed?)

VAT
You pay VAT on goods sent from non-European Union (EU) countries and EU special territories (eg the Canary Islands) if they’re:

gifts worth more than £39
other goods worth more than £15
alcohol, tobacco products and fragrances (eg perfume, eau de toilette and cologne) of any value
You have to pay VAT on all goods sent by mail order from the Channel Islands no matter what their value.

You’ll be charged at the VAT rate that applies to your goods. VAT is charged on the total value, including:

the price paid for the goods
postage, packaging and insurance
any duty you owe
Customs Duty
You’ll be charged Customs Duty on gifts and other goods sent from outside the EU if they’re above a certain value.

The value includes:

the price paid for the goods
postage, packaging and insurance
Type and value of goods Customs Duty
Anything under £135 No charge
Gifts worth £135-£630 2.5%, but rates are lower for some goods - call the helpline
Gifts above £630 and other goods above £135 The rate depends on the type of goods and where they came from - call the helpline

[JasonM]

https://www.gov.uk/starting-to-impor...m-eu-countries

[JasonM]

Gov. states this:

------------------------------ (which is surely in line with the brexit deal now agreed?)

VAT
You pay VAT on goods sent from non-European Union (EU) countries and EU special territories (eg the Canary Islands) if they’re:

gifts worth more than £39
other goods worth more than £15
alcohol, tobacco products and fragrances (eg perfume, eau de toilette and cologne) of any value
You have to pay VAT on all goods sent by mail order from the Channel Islands no matter what their value.

You’ll be charged at the VAT rate that applies to your goods. VAT is charged on the total value, including:

the price paid for the goods
postage, packaging and insurance
any duty you owe
Customs Duty
You’ll be charged Customs Duty on gifts and other goods sent from outside the EU if they’re above a certain value.

The value includes:

the price paid for the goods
postage, packaging and insurance
Type and value of goods Customs Duty
Anything under £135 No charge
Gifts worth £135-£630 2.5%, but rates are lower for some goods - call the helpline
Gifts above £630 and other goods above £135 The rate depends on the type of goods and where they came from - call the helpline

The Brexit deal doesn’t include the Customs Union, we have left that, the EU is now classed as the same as the rest of the world. The deal is for Tariff free trade .

[gerard]

.
Those days are long gone:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...-sales-n873416

Ah... missed that. Makes sense given the rise of internet sales. Thanks for update.


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[Kingstepper]

Often looking on Chrono24, prices in the US seem very competitive. Now that there will be a need to add VAT for EU purchases, I will be looking more at US dealers.

No sales tax in Delaware either

Sales tax is based on the delivery address.

Hence many forwarding companies are based in such states.

[Dan83bz]

Often looking on Chrono24, prices in the US seem very competitive. Now that there will be a need to add VAT for EU purchases, I will be looking more at US dealers.

There was always VAT on EU purchases if buying new, but not double - i.e. if buying a NEW watch from EU, it will be sold to you sans VAT, and you will pay VAT when it enters the UK. If however you are buying a used item from a private seller (eBay, forums etc.), said seller would have already paid VAT once when bought himself, but he cannot claim back the VAT once he exports it out of the EU, at least I see no easy provisions for that being laid out, meaning that once you would buy a used watch, you would have to pay VAT on its purchase price.

[mtagrant]

There was always VAT on EU purchases if buying new, but not double - i.e. if buying a NEW watch from EU, it will be sold to you sans VAT, and you will pay VAT when it enters the UK. If however you are buying a used item from a private seller (eBay, forums etc.), said seller would have already paid VAT once when bought himself, but he cannot claim back the VAT once he exports it out of the EU, at least I see no easy provisions for that being laid out, meaning that once you would buy a used watch, you would have to pay VAT on its purchase price.

Yes, I was referring to used watches in the US. Would always have had to add VAT, and they are now more competitive than buying used watches from the EU with that same added VAT, but a lower starting price

[Mr Tetley]

I find myself, as a NI resident, in a strange 'best of both worlds' part of the UK/Ireland.

Still in the EU trade zone yet still in the UK.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

John, have you noticed any retailers now stating they can’t deliver to Northern Ireland? Could be a coincidence and item specific but I’m sure it seems like more items on Amazon aren’t deliverable here now and I’ve also noticed a couple of watches today on the Goldsmiths website that can’t be delivered. Perhaps that’s due to Tier restrictions and actual location of the watches in question though.

[johnthemull]

As a citizen of the Republic of Ireland it now makes no sense to buy from the UK. I am doing all my online shopping on EU based websites now. On the plus side, it has forced me out of my anglophone bubble and I am taking French refresher classes


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[MB2]

Yes, I was referring to used watches in the US. Would always have had to add VAT, and they are now more competitive than buying used watches from the EU with that same added VAT, but a lower starting price

Exchange Rates will play a big part here of course and sterling has rallied over the summer (although still 10% down), agree if the hassle/clearance fees the same then it does make the US no more hassle than the EU now.