Sales Corner post Brexit

[Dan83bz]

I’ve happily spent many a hours browsing the Sales Corner here, most often simply window shopping and using it as a sort of way of discovering many great watches I never knew about, which has been good but equally frustrating since I’m far from independently wealthy to buy at a whim.

I think its fair to say this watch nutters community is like no other, in terms of the camaraderie, the friendly banter and of course the unique SC where you can find anything from the plethora or Rolexes and other finely priced wrist appendices to socks, ladies knickers and everything in between. It was like some daily meditation session for me to wake up, have a cup of tea or coffee and browse my mails alongside taking a peek at what’s new on TZ’s SC. I knew most days I wasn’t even looking to buy anything, last few years especially I’ve set myself very clear limits compared to the fervent flipping I had been doing the previous decade or so, but there was always that faint thought I might just discover a new grail popping up.The pleasure was indeed in the journey rather than the destination.

With what our wise leaders now have in store, although no doubt I will still pop-in to have a curios look, I know I won’t be buying anything of significant value due to complications, same as I stopped buying watches from across the pond quite long ago. Its probably a good thing in the end as it will help with further curtailing the spending but I will surely miss it 😒

Happy Holidays and I hope you have something ticking under your tree this year🎄🎁⌚️😊

[robert75]

I would give it a few months I am sure everything will settle down with regards to buying from abroad. It’s not in anybody’s interests to do otherwise.

[Exiztence]

I would give it a few months I am sure everything will settle down with regards to buying from abroad. It’s not in anybody’s interests to do otherwise.

For shops I imagine it will be possible, not pay VAT in country of origin and pay VAT in your country, but doubt most private sellers will give you 17.5% off since u will have to pay 20% VAT on arrival (or whatever VAT %).

[robert75]

This of course is going to work both ways, I purchased an bonklip strap from France a few weeks back before this mess kicks in. There is not a chance in hell I will be buying from the EU for a good while until its actually clear what will happen, there are a few watches I have in mind for 2021 Stowa and Guinand spring to mind and both remove VAT from non EU purchases so I will wait and let the dust settle first.

Likewise if UK businesses think they are suddenly going to get a rush of customers ready and willing to roll over to whatever prices are offered to them I think they may be in for a big shock. I dont think people seem to realise that this isnt the 1970s we have this thing called the internet where customers can easily compare prices.

I predict a lot of mess to achieve little.

[oldoakknives]

.........................
Likewise if UK businesses think they are suddenly going to get a rush of customers ready and willing to roll over to whatever prices are offered to them I think they may be in for a big shock. I dont think people seem to realise that this isnt the 1970s we have this thing called the internet where customers can easily compare prices.

I predict a lot of mess to achieve little.

I find quite a lot of UK businesses are well priced and competitive compared to those abroad.

[robert75]

I find quite a lot of UK businesses are well priced and competitive compared to those abroad.

There are at least two German dealers who are cheaper than the UK. Iguana Sell are in Spain and much cheaper than UK dealers for pens and other stuff so thats three off the list for a while.

[Dan83bz]

I would give it a few months I am sure everything will settle down with regards to buying from abroad. It’s not in anybody’s interests to do otherwise.

Oh yes, I know that but you're talking mainly for businesses and the like. For the personal purchases once they start charging VAT and what have you, don't believe there's a way to go back, same as is the situation currently with countries like Norway, Switzerland. Even with an optimistic outcome to the Brexit, it would still imply everything coming in from the UK would have to go thru import procedures and VAT...I guess there will be VAT refund for traditional shopping, but in the context of SC here, I doubt anybody would bother with all that even if it was possible.

But as I wrote above anything has a silver lining, which for me will be some freed up time and cash

[PhilipK]

Look on the bright side - while you're living in the EU, there are still 26 countries in which you can buy and sell without any import processes or VAT, etc. Those of us living in the UK are not so fortunate.

[Andyg]

Look on the bright side - while you're living in the EU, there are still 26 countries in which you can buy and sell without any import processes or VAT, etc. Those of us living in the UK are not so fortunate.

Very sad, but it might be a shocker, but Brexit wasn't about avoiding paying VAT on importation of watches. Especially when the VAT was already paid at the time of the original purchase.

[Normunds]

it is sad that i will not be able to buy anything from UK in private sale, because of the VAT and vice versa.

[Saint-Just]

Point taken :)

[oldoakknives]

Point taken :)

[mr.chef]

I’ve not read all the details but will there now be import charges when we buy from the EU?

[JasonM]

I feel sorry for you if you only buy from EU countries. I buy from all over the world, sometimes have to pay import duty etc but hey thats life.

I’m sure you do, but if you had a choice of buying the same product from the EU import duty free or from outside with extra charges, I’m sure you would buy the EU route.

[oldoakknives]

I’m sure you do, but if you had a choice of buying the same product from the EU import duty free or from outside with extra charges, I’m sure you would buy the EU route.

Of course you would always take the better price if there was one. The OP was referring to not buying at all because of extra charges, not buying elsewhere. My point was that if I want something and have to pay duty so be it, I wouldn't go without because of it.

[martyloveswatches]

Not just EU. It is like that in any country (that doesnt have some trading/customs arrangement with others; EU is a free trade - no customs zone)

[Idontgram]

As I understand it, It’s another unfortunate consequence of Brexit that VAT will soon be due on all imports from the EU. Sadly, no more eBay/Chrono24 second hand purchases without the same customs charges as had been previously reserved to non-EU countries.

For private sellers it’s just the new reality. It’s ok for businesses as I understand they can reach distance selling VAT arrangements (ie not pay VAT in their own country) but presumably they have to make enough sales to the UK make it worth their while.

[Seiko7A38]

As I understand it, It’s another unfortunate consequence of Brexit that VAT will soon be due on all imports from the EU.

Looks like i've just been royally screwed then. I bought a watch off a German eBay seller on 17th December. Paid him immediately.
He shipped it on 18th December by DHL parcel. I was hoping it might arrive in time for Christmas. It didn't.
Instead it was returned to the seller on 24th December, because Brexit negotiations hadn't been finalized.

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/t...=CY210665204DE

I've asked him to re-send it. Will I have any recourse to claim back the VAT ?

[RustyBin5]

Looks like i've just been royally screwed then. I bought a watch off a German eBay seller on 17th December. Paid him immediately.
He shipped it on 18th December by DHL parcel. I was hoping it might arrive in time for Christmas. It didn't.
Instead it was returned to the seller on 24th December, because Brexit negotiations hadn't been finalized.

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/t...=CY210665204DE

I've asked him to re-send it. Will I have any recourse to claim back the VAT ?

I dont think you will pay VAT in both countries. If paid in Germany then won’t be in UK and vice versa - I may be wrong but that’s my understanding

[Dave+63]

I dont think you will pay VAT in both countries. If paid in Germany then won’t be in UK and vice versa - I may be wrong but that’s my understanding

It all depends on whether it’s new or used.

I’d imagine that, as per the rest of the world, you’ll buy new at excluding VAT prices and then pay UK VAT on arrival to the UK. The business in Germany (as per your example) will not have to charge VAT on anything they export from the EU.

Second hand goods will, in the main, not be VAT reduced on exit from the EU but will be subject to UK VAT on entry to the UK.

[Saint-Just]

It all depends on whether it’s new or used.

I’d imagine that, as per the rest of the world, you’ll buy new at excluding VAT prices and then pay UK VAT on arrival to the UK. The business in Germany (as per your example) will not have to charge VAT on anything they export from the EU.

With the small caveat that they are actually registered for VAT. So if it's someone doing it on the side rather than as a main business, he may not be registered for VAT; in this case his price to German customers is the price you'll pay VAT on.

That is, once the system is fully sorted and all the links in the chain know what they have to do...

[draftsmann]

I dont think you will pay VAT in both countries. If paid in Germany then won’t be in UK and vice versa - I may be wrong but that’s my understanding

The related subjects of VAT leakage and double charging often see theory and real life diverge.

It’s likely that airport customs officers will become a lot busier processing VAT refunds on personal exports and of course VAT payments on personal imports in both directions between Britain and the EU. Unless some common sense prevails of course...

[Saint-Just]

The related subjects of VAT leakage and double charging often see theory and real life diverge.

It’s likely that airport customs officers will become a lot busier processing VAT refunds on personal exports and of course VAT payments on personal imports in both directions between Britain and the EU. Unless some common sense prevails of course...

You say common sense, I say airport customs officers just throw in the towel

[RickS]

The related subjects of VAT leakage and double charging often see theory and real life diverge.

It’s likely that airport customs officers will become a lot busier processing VAT refunds on personal exports and of course VAT payments on personal imports in both directions between Britain and the EU. Unless some common sense prevails of course...

With effect from 1st January claiming VAT refunds at the airport ceases. The only way to reclaim the VAT will be for the store to post items directly to overseas address. So, customs officers won't be as busy as we think (maybe). This from Gov.UK site:-

"VAT Retail Export Scheme

As part of these changes, VAT refunds for overseas visitors in British shops will be removed. Overseas visitors will still be able to buy items VAT-free in store and have them sent direct to their overseas addresses, while the costly system of claiming VAT refunds on items they take home in their luggage will be ended."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/duty-free-extended-to-the-eu-from-january-2021

[MB2]

Looks like i've just been royally screwed then. I bought a watch off a German eBay seller on 17th December. Paid him immediately.
He shipped it on 18th December by DHL parcel. I was hoping it might arrive in time for Christmas. It didn't.
Instead it was returned to the seller on 24th December, because Brexit negotiations hadn't been finalized.

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/t...=CY210665204DE

I've asked him to re-send it. Will I have any recourse to claim back the VAT ?

TNT have told us anything with a shipping date of 31/12 is deemed as having been exported under the old rules even if it gets held up. So if he reships you should still be OK I think.

[RustyBin5]

Be interesting re steinhart for example. You can buy from Germany direct or from chronomaster which is their U.K. distributor - curious how that’ll pan out

[robert75]

Be interesting re steinhart for example. You can buy from Germany direct or from chronomaster which is their U.K. distributor - curious how that’ll pan out

At the moment it seems Chronomaster is a bit cheaper

[Saint-Just]

At the moment it seems Chronomaster is a bit cheaper

And it is likely to stay that way. It would be unusual for the manufacturer to undercut his foreign distributors by selling cheaper direct.

[Saint-Just]

Alternatively once travelling is back to some sort of new normality, some of us can have a day trip to France and use the local post office once there...

[martyloveswatches]

The bottom line is that it all looks like far too much hassle, with the probability that any and all purchases (including private ones from TZ forum members) will be subject to VAT and "handling" charges, and I could even be charged twice.

Looks like I am unlikely to be buying or trading any more watches from EU forum members in future, which is a shame.

Alternatively once travelling is back to some sort of new normality, some of us can have a day trip to France and use the local post office once there...

Whatever is to be decided, whole buying-selling process with EU members (talking about non-business sellers) is going to take more time. And just because of that and possible complications (delays, procedure, VAT) means the watch hobby community will suffer. Unfortunately.
I do have a cousin in London who flies often to EU so I ll try to make some arrangements like that if I decide to buy sth from UK. Let us wait till this start, maybe we are still rushing ahead with conclusions

Poslano sa mog SM-G960F koriste?i Tapatalk

[BillyCasper]

I will of course be honoured in such instances to stump up 20% VAT in the hope that it is used to fund improvements to essential, currently underfunded, public services.

On 1st January EBay might give us a clue on future VAT arrangements as online market places will start collecting VAT (on transactions up to £135 and if the seller has not provided a U.K. VAT registration number). Perhaps keep an eye on how an EU business seller to a U.K. private buyer and how a EU private seller to U.K. private buyer transactions are processed.


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[paw3001]

Interestingly, I have now come across a number of EU based online stores now stating that they will not be accepting orders from the UK due to Brexit

Most likely due to all the upheaval and unknowns and so I wonder how pong it will take them to be comfortable to open orders back up to UK customers again?

[learningtofly]

I've just written to Sinn regarding my deposit-paid U50 along the following lines (not the first time I've chased, incidentally):


Any update on this please, as it's now a month and a half past the delivery date provided when I ordered it? I'm assuming that any VAT-related issues post January 1st will be managed between you and Sinn, by the way, as I won't be paying any additional costs.


I await their response.

Edit: And here it is:

Hi Tony,

Thank you for your email, the brand are closed at the moment for the Christmas break but rest assured orders will resume next week and once they're back open we will be sending them our backorder list for them to advise on the delivery from Germany.


The price you have paid will not increase.


Warmest regards,

[tmoris]

There is a workaround for avoiding taxes / duties for second hand watches. Not entirelly honest though as it requires the receiving party to lie to customs and the sending party to cooperate..

[draftsmann]

There is a workaround for avoiding taxes / duties for second hand watches. Not entirelly honest though as it requires the receiving party to lie to customs and the sending party to cooperate..

That’s like saying “there’s a workaround for reducing your shopping bill. Just walk out of the store without paying”.

[tmoris]

That’s like saying “there’s a workaround for reducing your shopping bill. Just walk out of the store without paying”.

Not quite. Walking out the shop without paying means you took something from the owner of the shop (he now has less) and you gained something (you have more)

By receiving a package for which you paid, the other party gets what they wanted as do you. The gov is not losing anything, just as it didnt lose anything pre brexit.

Not endorsing the scheme, just correcting your mistake in logic.

[Kingstepper]

Not quite. Walking out the shop without paying means you took something from the owner of the shop (he now has less) and you gained something (you have more)

By receiving a package for which you paid, the other party gets what they wanted as do you. The gov is not losing anything, just as it didnt lose anything pre brexit.

Not endorsing the scheme, just correcting your mistake in logic.

The government is losing taxes it's due.

[walkerwek1958]

There is a workaround for avoiding taxes / duties for second hand watches. Not entirelly honest though as it requires the receiving party to lie to customs and the sending party to cooperate..

A ‘workaround’.......that’s a euphemism I wouldn’t have thought of!

The difficulty with these ‘ workarounds’, apart from the legality, us the disparity between declared value and insured value......think about it!

[tmoris]

A ‘workaround’.......that’s a euphemism I wouldn’t have thought of!

The difficulty with these ‘ workarounds’, apart from the legality, us the disparity between declared value and insured value......think about it!

Nope. The workaround works with full insured and declared value as well.

[walkerwek1958]

Nope. The workaround works with full insured and declared value as well.

Really? I bow to your superior knowledge. It’s still fraud and nothing to brag about on a forum. I’m not claiming to be whiter than white, just questioning the wisdom of bragging about it.

Like it or not, we are no longer in the EU and taxes will apply to watches and watch parts bought from Europe. I don’t like it, I buy parts from Spain and Germany because there’s no alternative, prices are not favourable owing to the exchange rate, so adding 20% on top is bad news. If stuff sneaks in under the radar I won’t complain, but I certainly won’t try to engineer the situation in my favour by encouraging false declarations, 20 years ago I might’ve done so but now I’m mature enough to realise it’s nothing to be proud of.

[tmoris]

Really? I bow to your superior knowledge. It’s still fraud and nothing to brag about on a forum. I’m not claiming to be whiter than white, just questioning the wisdom of bragging about it.

Like it or not, we are no longer in the EU and taxes will apply to watches and watch parts bought from Europe. I don’t like it, I buy parts from Spain and Germany because there’s no alternative, prices are not favourable owing to the exchange rate, so adding 20% on top is bad news. If stuff sneaks in under the radar I won’t complain, but I certainly won’t try to engineer the situation in my favour by encouraging false declarations, 20 years ago I might’ve done so but now I’m mature enough to realise it’s nothing to be proud of.

You too are mistaken. I did not brag about it nor did I share the scheme.

[ryanb741]

If anyone wants a top tip for free blueberries at Sainsbury's just let me know. Hint; you'll need a rucksack:)

In all seriousness there is a loophole with Parcelpro in so far as in order to remain compliant with their terms and conditions you have to declare an item at $500 or lower. Declare it any higher and any claim might not be honoured.

I believe Ming use Parcelpro. Anyone who has ordered a Ming will know it always arrives with customs declaration of $500 even though the watch will have cost many multiples of this. VAT is charged by HMRC on this declared value.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[johnthemull]

As a citizen of the Republic of Ireland it now makes no sense to buy from the UK. I am doing all my online shopping on EU based websites now. On the plus side, it has forced me out of my anglophone bubble and I am taking French refresher classes


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