Parcelforce Lost my Watch

[j111dja]

It's so frustrating.

I sent a watch up to £2500 with Parcelforce to Luxembourg back in 2017. I have the receipt in front of me for a reason. (More about that in a minute). They knew it was a watch being shipped, but there was a lot of whispering and indecision amongst staff. They obviously knew it was in the list of prohibited and restricted items. I didn't know this at the time but they accepted it. It cost me £134.97 to ship that watch and thankfully it arrived safely.

Forward to early this month. I went back to the same Parcelforce depot with another watch with up to £2500 of insured value. I got a quote online for the package based on value, dimensions and weight. It came to just over £185!! The person dealing with the package disappeared for four or five minutes and the result from chatting with her work colleagues was that they could not ship a watch as it is on our prohibited and restricted items list.

The reason for digging out the previous order. A claim.

[Estoril-5]

Any update OP?

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[ollipekka]

I have been using DHL Express to send watches inside EU, including UK (pre-brexit). Sending from here, they insure up to 5000e and outright refuse to carry a watch more expensive than that. I don't know if it is possible to send a watch more expensive than that with them.

I don't have access to value couriers so it seems that sending options are somewhat limited.

[Bernard]

Wow, offering insurance but then excluding “valuable goods,” the only goods that require insurance in the first place, or any item that is “susceptible to loss or damage.” If that isn’t a con I don’t know what is.

Small claims court here would have a field day over this...

[hilly10]

Parcelforce are shocking. I haven’t used them for years due to a string of disputes with them. Up to 2.5k RMSD for me and over that I try to do f2f

Or Rusty use RMSD with 3rd party ins

If it’s over £2500 I use RMSD then Securus.com as a third party insurance. It’s peace of mind. On a 5k watch it cost me £24.50 + RMSD which was £13.50

[Mr Scruff]

It’s a bit of a shocker that 1) they sold you additional insurance despite being a prohibited item, and 2) the representative didn’t know it was prohibited!

A good warning I guess, to check Ts and Cs more carefully. I’ve used RMSD more than once...

[TheTigerUK]

I always use RMSD up £2500 in the UK, fast delivery and never had a problem and I always tell the post office staff its a watch and i'm told its ok but is it ? has anyone ever had one go missing and claimed ? if so did it go well ?

[hilly10]

There have been a couple of threads over the years usely a good outcome with claims using RMSD. How many of us photograph the box and it’s contents before sending, I do now as Securus insist you do

[Ric356II]

I had a similar experience a couple of months ago when sending a watch to The Netherlands.
The tracking stopped at the UK hub and they asked for a description of the parcel as they couldn't find it and admitted they had no idea where it was.
I was going through my claim, sending them all the evidence of postage, photos etc and out of the blue the guy I sold the watch to messaged me to say it had arrived!
Tracking was still showing it at the UK hub!
I informed them and they never thanked me, just messaged to say they now have reason to believe the parcel has been delivered and the claim was cancelled.
I replied saying "I know, it was me who informed you that it had and without that you'd have no idea where the parcel was!"

[RS404]

Any update OP?

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Had an acknowledgement of my appeal on 23rd December, nothing since, but didn't really expect anything over Christmas. Will give it a chase in a week or so.

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[PSTW]

Word of warning here, I sold a watch, luckily not a very expensive one, to a member in Ireland. I sent the watch on 9th November on what I was told was a 3 day service and paid £25.62, £6.30 of which was additional cover up to £300. They have lost the watch and I lodged a claim. This was the response...

Thank you for your enquiry into the case detailed above.
We have completed our investigation into your claim and we can now confirm that the contents (wristwatch) of your parcel are excluded from compensation on all of our services.

Unfortunately we are therefore unable to offer any compensation on this occasion.

You are able to view our terms and conditions including a full list of all our exclusions at www.parcelforce.com under the “Help & Advice” section and in literature which is available at your local Post Office.

I regret we were unable to offer you a more favourable response to your claim on this occasion. For details on our appeals process, please visit our website.

Yours sincerely
Claims Customer Service Team
Parcelforce Worldwide

I have read through the list of exclusions and cannot see 'wristwatch' listed. I have appealed but don't expect to get anywhere. I've spent several infuriating hours trying to sort this out now. I will never send a watch outside the UK again, in fact I'm not sure I will ever send one anywhere again after this. I'm absolutely furious.

I would contend that if you have told them what is in the box and purchased additional insurance to cover it, then at the time the bargain was struck it was on these amended terms and so the standard terms, advantageous as they are to PF now, do not exclude liability.

If it were me and there were not a much more sensible discussion to be had with PF, I’d be minded to take legal action.

[Dougal]

I would contend that if you have told them what is in the box and purchased additional insurance to cover it, then at the time the bargain was struck it was on these amended terms and so the standard terms, advantageous as they are to PF now, do not exclude liability.

If it were me and there were not a much more sensible discussion to be had with PF, I’d be minded to take legal action.

+1. I too would be minded to take legal action on this basis.

[M1011]

I would contend that if you have told them what is in the box and purchased additional insurance to cover it, then at the time the bargain was struck it was on these amended terms and so the standard terms, advantageous as they are to PF now, do not exclude liability.

If it were me and there were not a much more sensible discussion to be had with PF, I’d be minded to take legal action.

Unless the content is written somewhere at purchase, how would you evidence the discussion?

Genuine question - I'm not sure how much evidence would be needed.

[Stuart67]

I worked for the post office most of my life but left 2 years ago so this may be out of date. When accepting any parcel force items the customer is given a copy of the terms and conditions which clearly shows items excluded from compensation and they would sign the certificate of posting to acknowledge this. I'm surprised that you would be advised to send a watch by parcel force as any item under 2kg is almost certain to be more economical via royal mail. A big issue with the current post office set up is that they are being put into various outlets as an add on service and the staff have next to zero training. Sorry to hear about your watch but if you've signed your certificate of posting I would imagine they will reject any claim.

[asteclaru]

I don't think I've ever had a positive experience with Parcelforce. Their tracking is useless and the staff, at least at my local depot, should not be in any customer relations position. Top tip (something I've found out during my last experience with them): if you want to actually speak to someone when calling the depot instead of listening to automated messages (you aren't given the option when you call), you have to let the system go through the options twice then it'll put you through to someone automatically.

[Tom-P]

if you want to actually speak to someone when calling the depot instead of listening to automated messages (you aren't given the option when you call), you have to let the system go through the options twice then it'll put you through to someone automatically.

(That works with quite a lot of companies' phone systems in my experience. A good tip.)

[PSTW]

Unless the content is written somewhere at purchase, how would you evidence the discussion?

Genuine question - I'm not sure how much evidence would be needed.

I think the OP would have to evidence it by way of a witness statement and his actions - that is to say, he would not have sent a watch without the insurance and the assurances that went with it.

The burden of proof is on the balance of probabilities and so I’d suggest the actions combined with the evidence of the discussion would be quite compelling.

[RS404]

I worked for the post office most of my life but left 2 years ago so this may be out of date. When accepting any parcel force items the customer is given a copy of the terms and conditions which clearly shows items excluded from compensation and they would sign the certificate of posting to acknowledge this. I'm surprised that you would be advised to send a watch by parcel force as any item under 2kg is almost certain to be more economical via royal mail. A big issue with the current post office set up is that they are being put into various outlets as an add on service and the staff have next to zero training. Sorry to hear about your watch but if you've signed your certificate of posting I would imagine they will reject any claim.

I usually use RMSD but as this was outside of the UK, Parcelforce was suggested by the clerk. I wasn't given anything other than a receipt and proof of postage and I wasn't asked to sign anything.

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[Rob153]

In all my years of posting items with PF I’ve never seen this ‘certificate of posting’? I’ve sent varied things PF and never had to sign anything, used different PO etc... I’m not saying it doesn’t exist but just have never seen it first hand. It would make sense as you are signing/agreeing to a service and conditions.

I worked for the post office most of my life but left 2 years ago so this may be out of date. When accepting any parcel force items the customer is given a copy of the terms and conditions which clearly shows items excluded from compensation and they would sign the certificate of posting to acknowledge this. I'm surprised that you would be advised to send a watch by parcel force as any item under 2kg is almost certain to be more economical via royal mail. A big issue with the current post office set up is that they are being put into various outlets as an add on service and the staff have next to zero training. Sorry to hear about your watch but if you've signed your certificate of posting I would imagine they will reject any claim.

[RS404]

Delighted to report that I recieved a cheque from Parcelforce on Thursday for the value of the watch and the postage cost. It was a real battle, a very frustrating process that took nearly 3 months, but relieved to have got there in the end. Be careful out there!

[Neilw3030]

Any idea why PF back tracked on their previous statement of the watch not being covered by their terms and conditions??

[Speedie]

Great news! Glad you were not out of pocket for this.

[sundial]

Delighted to report that I recieved a cheque from Parcelforce on Thursday for the value of the watch and the postage cost. It was a real battle, a very frustrating process that took nearly 3 months, but relieved to have got there in the end. Be careful out there!

Very pleased for you ... persistence pays :)

[Stuart67]

In all my years of posting items with PF I’ve never seen this ‘certificate of posting’? I’ve sent varied things PF and never had to sign anything, used different PO etc... I’m not saying it doesn’t exist but just have never seen it first hand. It would make sense as you are signing/agreeing to a service and conditions.

If you go into the parcel force tracking page there are examples certificates of posting showing where to find the tracking number. The second one down is the one that should be issued in post offices and you can clearly see the space for the customer signature.

[Balance wheel]

Sorry to worry everyone but Royal Mail £2500 insurance doesn’t cover watches unless they are made from precious material, so unless your watch is solid gold it’s not covered, metal watches are not covered
Terms and conditions on Royal Mail site state
watches - the cases of which are made wholly or mainly of precious metal
Tbh if I want to send a expensive item I use ups

[Billy4389]

Delighted to report that I recieved a cheque from Parcelforce on Thursday for the value of the watch and the postage cost. It was a real battle, a very frustrating process that took nearly 3 months, but relieved to have got there in the end. Be careful out there!

Good result! Sounded like a headache


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[Dougal]

Royal Mail £2500 insurance doesn’t cover watches unless they are made from precious material, so unless your watch is solid gold it’s not covered

Do you know if this insurance problem applies to Special Delivery too?

[Balance wheel]

Do you know if this insurance problem applies to Special Delivery too?

Yes
https://personal.help.royalmail.com/...lery-in-the-uk

[Kingstepper]

Sorry to worry everyone but Royal Mail £2500 insurance doesn’t cover watches unless they are made from precious material, so unless your watch is solid gold it’s not covered, metal watches are not covered
Terms and conditions on Royal Mail site state
watches - the cases of which are made wholly or mainly of precious metal
Tbh if I want to send a expensive item I use ups

Those T&Cs are defining jewellery, doesn’t exclude other watches being posted.

[subsonicreflex]

I'm genuinely terrified at the prospect of sending a watch by courier now!

Insurance companies, banks, phone companies and so on are absolutely not about protecting customers but protecting their profits and to truly understand what you're paying for you have to read very lengthy terms and conditions. I get exclusions exist, but it shouldn't be harder to understand what is covered than what isn't. Campanies just need to be clear about the services they're selling and not rely on burying the detail in order to provide a defence for their deceptive practices!

[Balance wheel]

Those T&Cs are defining jewellery, doesn’t exclude other watches being posted.

Is this you presuming that is the case? Can you show me where it says so on the Royal Mail that normal watches are covered

[Berty234]

That Royal Mail page is explaining that two particular types of package, money and jewellery, are covered only if sent by RMSD. It then sets out a list of what it considers jewellery.

It is not saying that steel watches are excluded. They are just not classified as jewellery for that particular definition.

Here’s the list of exclusions from what can be sent, watches are not mentioned. So, there is no restriction on sending watches.

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/...detail/a_id/96

[Kingstepper]

Is this you presuming that is the case? Can you show me where it says so on the Royal Mail that normal watches are covered

Of course, if something isn’t excluded it will be covered.

There isn’t a list of everything that is covered. I can pick a thousand things that by your reasoning wouldn’t be covered.

[Balance wheel]

Of course, if something isn’t excluded it will be covered.

There isn’t a list of everything that is covered. I can pick a thousand things that by your reasoning wouldn’t be covered.

Let’s hope you never have to test your theory because watches are mentioned

[Kingstepper]

Let’s hope you never have to test your theory because watches are mentioned

Where are non-precious metal watches mentioned?

[Berty234]

See my post above?

(Watches are not excluded)

[MartynJC (UK)]

Of course, if something isn’t excluded it will be covered.

There isn’t a list of everything that is covered. I can pick a thousand things that by your reasoning wouldn’t be covered.

+1. valuables (which includes watches made of precious metals or mostly made of) should be sent be RMSD - and can be insured up to £2500) other items not on the prohibited list can be sent by RM other services or by RMSD - steel watches, brass watches, paper clips whatever.

[Kingstepper]

See my post above?

Me? How does that help?

[Berty234]

Me? How does that help?

Thought I’d explained it in further detail, in support :)

My post explained why watches are not excluded, with a link to the exclusions list.

More for the other chap who misread the jewellery section.

[Kingstepper]

Thought I’d explained it in further detail, in support :)

My post explained why watches are not excluded, with a link to the exclusions list.

More for the other chap who misread the jewellery section.

Yes, think we are agreed!

[M1011]

Let’s hope you never have to test your theory because watches are mentioned

You're mistaken.