Reply With QuoteThey simply don't have the resources to go after amateurs - the scale is not there.
If you haven't already seen it, Northern Watch Co Magazine wrote: Seen A Fake Patek Phillipe on Facebook? Trading Standards Are Really Not Arsed:
"It’s well known that fakers are out there making replicas of prestige watches. Rolex is the most popular, followed closely by Cartier, Patek Phillipe, Audemars and then lesser makes like Breitling and TAG. Really sad characters sometimes fake Michael Kors watches, such is the depth of their despair. So how do you spot a fake Patek Phillipe and why aren’t your local Trading Standards even bothered to go and take them off the market?
It is a baffling mystery, revealed today as I spotted a `Patek Marriage watch’ on Facebook, complete with what appeared to be a Patek Phillipe watch box with it. Now a marriage watch is way of re-casing an old pocket watch movement from the 1880-1930 era in a modern case. Nothing wrong with that and this heap of rubbish may have contained a genuine Patek ladies pocket watch movement – although I doubt it. But the photo of the box revealed it as a fake immediately. Just compare the real Patek typeface with the fake script in the pics below.
The narrow letters, the `bleed’ into the material, and the wrong colour of ink all give it away as a fake – not a decent one at that.
Then there’s the rubbish steel case, the poor finish on the lugs, crown and folding clasp. It’s a cheap watch.
So I reported it to my local Trading Standards, thinking they might visit the shop, or at least contact the online retailer and examine this so-called Patek. No..of course not! Too busy and anyway all they were bothered about was that the Patek trademark was being used correctly on a watch box, not a T-shirt, some naff trainers or plastic sunglasses.
So our top tip when looking at a bargain Swiss watch online is to examine the box and paperwork very closely. Ideally, you want to see a full set of paperwork and cards with prestige watches. But they can be lost over 30 years of course. If there’s a box, does the logo look correct, arrow straight letters, right font etc? Then if there are serial numbers, or little holograms download the images put them into Google Images to do a match.
You see, faking a dial with Patek Phillipe, Geneve, on it is relatively easy with modern CAD/3D print technology, but faking all the packaging is not as easy. That’s because accurately reproducing the subtle variance in pantones, typography, logoscripts, plus materials used in wooden, or heavy ply card/paper boxes, plus plastic hologrammed card inserts etc all requires a team of outsourced factories. You can’t get one Leonardo level genius to fake it all. Obviously involving other respectable packaging and printing companies in your fake watch scam can be risky, so that’s why the box and paperwork is often the big giveaway with replica Swiss watches. Hope that helps you avoid buying dreadful fakes like this Patek.
If you do get stung, don’t expect much help from Trading Standards, because with public sector enforcement being as weak as this, the watch fakers of the web are having it large."
They simply don't have the resources to go after amateurs - the scale is not there.
" So our top tip when looking at a bargain Swiss watch online "
My top tip is not to look for "bargain" Swiss watches online from unreputable sources in the first place.
It is idiotic to take comfort from the perceived authenticity of accessories. Those selling fake watches are commonly adding or mixing genuine accessories to take advantage of exactly this lunacy. Furthermore, most main agents, many pre-owned dealers --- and inevitably most private buyers --- are incapable of spotting the best fake accessories anyway!
On a more positive note, I celebrate a number of arrests and convictions over the last couple of years that we have brought about where people have tried to sell us fake Rolex. Some you may have read about here, others not yet. Trading Standards were not involved in any, but local police forces were.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 14th December 2020 at 15:09.
I would say that 99.99% of human beings on this planet, myself included, cannot tell the difference between a genuine and fake document by using the naked eye. The bad thing about fake documents is that prospective buyers feel relaxed when they see the paperwork, which cost just a few quid to print, and they splash out mega bucks on a fake whatever.
To be fair to Trading Standards, they are monstrously under resourced - like all public services, they've been subject to large funding cuts in the name of austerity. And with the amount of general fraud going up very fast, I suspect that they will have a huge backlog.
Furthermore, whilst you reported the fake Patek, you didn't buy it, so you aren't a victim of fraud, so probably are low in their priorities.
Yes, its aggravating that things like this aren't investigated, but in this country at the moment, 99.9% of fraud and related crimes aren't investigated at all! If you really want to waste your life, try reporting something to Action Fraud!
Good points, well made.Originally Posted by MrGrumpy
It wasn't me; I was merely highlighting an article written about it.
I imagine that Patek (and Rolex, etc) have a large, well-funded legal department, and are also easily able afford the services of MarkMonitor (or any of the other services which look for misuse of trademark on the internet).
If they are not prepared to do anything about these fakes, I'm not sure that Trading Standards are going to be too bothered. I feel a bit the same about reporting fakes on eBay - if the manufacturers are not prepared to protect their own intellectual property, why should I do their work for them?
Really...?
(link removed as it showed a seller of fake Rolex boxes and documents)
Just google 'Rolex box and papers' and you'll see how easy it is to fake these things. They might not get past Haywood but I'm betting they would fool a lot of people.
Last edited by oldoakknives; 14th December 2020 at 19:42.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I'm always surprised Rolex don't stamp on the provincial auction rooms who continually offer the fake branded quartz "watch" wall clocks...
Know the feeling well.
Personally it infuriates me when reporting fakes on eBay that they deliberately make it difficult to do (2FA required every single time despite being logged in), then never give any update or indication on whether the report was even looked at (presumably not as the items never seem to get pulled). I suspect they work off volume of reports, so low traffic items like watches never get a look in.
Good point actually. Noticed a Gumtree seller who emerges regularly. He’s an industrial scale counterfeiter - clothes, trainers, watches, luggage, accessories. Think he had 250 or so separate listings last time I noticed him. They then disappear- presumably taken down by Gumtree. They don’t shut the account and week or two later there he is again.
Professional firms of solicitors, accountants, etc., are under pain of severe sanctions required to report suspected criminal activity they encounter in their work. Seems Gumtree and eBay aren’t similarly obligated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gaz...s-19331373.amp
Nor watches I grant you but proves TS are on the lookout for fake items.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Cheetham Hill in Manchester is rife with mass scale counterfeiting. I remember seeing film of raids years ago and, as far as I am aware, nothing has changed.
There’s a few sad chancers selling bits and pieces but, as I said, there are industrial scale fakers who are sufficiently confident that they won’t be troubled that they advertise openly on Gumtree and social media.
I’m amazed the auction houses do it themselves.
I had an email from saleroom yesterday and one of the lots was “Seiko watch & a facsimile of others” the facsimiles being a load of fake Rolexes!
Why would they want that on their name?
The auction house are not selling it as the real thing, therefore it is not a fake but a copy.
There is a stall in North Laine in Brighton that has been selling 'copy' sun glasses for years.
You can buy copy Ray-Ban, Oakley and copies of fashion brands like Deisel, D&G, Versace etc.
None of them are fakes as they ae not sold as the real thing.
Contacts > Jamie Thorpe's lawyer > Delete.
Now, why does that name come to mind today?
Do these sunglasses just copy the designs of the real thing, or do they also have the brand logos on them?
In the first instance, unless they are deliberately designed to be close but not exact copies, I suspect that they would be in breach of copyright law; in the latter, they would be in breach of Trademark violation.
I also struggle to see how something which has been manufactured to look just like a particular product - especially if it also copies the logo - can be anything other than a "fake".
You can’t mention him without Paul Thorpe coming up too 😬
I haven't looked at them that closely as I am not that interested in buying such goods.
My post was more that they say they are not the real thing. This is not a pop-up stall but has been there for many years so I would imagine they are known to Trading Standards.
My point was that the law may not be as clear cut as we would like and these companies are presumably trading legitimately ?
I thought I would google a few things and have become even more confused.
Ebay in the UK even have a section for fake handbags
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Fake-Handba.../bn_7023567381
Presumably OK because they are not sold as the real thing?
My head hurts
Last edited by Kevin; 16th December 2020 at 14:44.
I entirely agree. I used to try to be a good-citizen in this regard but it seemed such a thankless task I've stopped bothering. (It would be very easy for eBay for example to send an auto-email to anyone who'd reported a given item confirming that it had been pulled.)
If it has the original makers name on it it's a fake. Regardless of what you call it or whether you sell it as 'the real thing'.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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