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Thread: Lemania 5100 service

  1. #1
    Master
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    Lemania 5100 service

    Hi all. Does anyone know a watchmaker who will service the Lemania 5100? I've tried Duncan (thewatchbloke) but parts are an issue. Has anyone had one serviced recently?

  2. #2
    What's the brand of watch and do you only want indies?

  3. #3
    Master
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    It's a Lorenz chrono and yes definitely prefer to use indies. Based on the brand and movement my assumption is that that's the only option.

  4. #4
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Duncan a great job on mine a few years ago and he mentioned then that parts are becoming an issue. So much so I only wear it occasionally.https://onatelier.co.uk/ gets lots of good reviews from folk on here. I plan on sending my Roamer to him in the new year.

  5. #5
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Parts will be an issue whoever you use, but assuming it's all ok inside, it can still be serviced.

    If it's a Tutima, I believe they can still service the 5100 and have a stock of parts, but good luck getting in touch and getting a sensible answer from them. I tried and they refused point blank to give me even a ball park figure. I was expected to send the watch to Germany and hope they didn't tear me a new one and then it was a Ä55 charge to send it back if I rejected the quote.

    You could try Terry Casey at what used to be Ryte Time:

    https://www.luxurywatchrepairers.co.uk/

    He gave me a figure of £300 plus vat and postage last year.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    It's a Lorenz chrono and yes definitely prefer to use indies. Based on the brand and movement my assumption is that that's the only option.
    Charles Martin were going to do my Lemania 5100 but that may just be because they work with Fortis? Possibly worth an email to them - they are not cheap, but then again I'm not sure 'cheap' and 'Lemania 5100' can go in a sentence together any more when it comes to servicing these days.

  7. #7
    Master
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    Thanks for the recommendations so far. I've emailed all three

    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    I'm not sure 'cheap' and 'Lemania 5100' can go in a sentence together any more when it comes to servicing these days.
    Indeed. What was built as a cheap movement now seems quite the opposite!

  8. #8
    Master
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    If you need another name then I'd expect Simon Freese would take it on.

  9. #9
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Crazy thought, but could a 3D printer produce any necessary parts? It's mostly the plastic parts that wear and need replacing so Ö it might work?

    DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about 3D printing

  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    Iíd rather drill my own teeth than work on one of these, horrible things. Plastic parts in the wrong places, very poor parts availability, lots of little springs to assemble and potentially lose........no way!

    Repairers arenít supposed to damage or lose parts, but occasionally it can happen. The hapless watchie then needs a Ďget out of jailí card to sort out the problem and if parts are scarce that will prove costly. Far too stressful for my liking. On a risk/ reward basis its sometimes worth taking these jobs on and charging a price that reflects the risk, but thesedays I wonít do that.

    Blame Swatch Group for stopping supply of parts, you all had your chance to protest in 2015 when this policy came in but the silence was deafening. Cousins are still fighting their corner on this one but Iím not optimistic.

  11. #11
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Crazy thought, but could a 3D printer produce any necessary parts? It's mostly the plastic parts that wear and need replacing so … it might work?

    DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about 3D printing
    I actually thought the same thing score replying to this thread. It must be possible.


    With regard to the supply of parts for these. I understand the movement was long out dated before this issue came up. Parts for these have been a serious problem for years
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 8th December 2020 at 22:31.

  12. #12
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Iíd rather drill my own teeth than work on one of these
    I always enjoy your candid honesty Paul

  13. #13
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    I had my EZM1 service by Sinn recently so Sinn clearly also have a stock of parts, but good luck trying to get them to sell you some for someone else's watch (although they did sell me a full det of hands a while back).
    If you have a relationship with them, they may help.
    Individual parts can be sourced on Ebay, when a need arises, although not every part is as easy to come by as others.
    However, in most cases no parts need be used for a service, is a known fault present in your Lorenz?
    If you have a tame Omega service agent they may be able to help (Calibre 1045 over there), although Omega too restrict parts.
    There are also watch factors elsewhere in the world that have some spares, it is usually best to find the Omega part number to search for the relevant bits. The parts can be found by searching up the Omega service manual for the Omega 1045 that itemises each part and number.
    Or you can attempt to track down a donor watch for the movement. I have (in the distant past) bought rather ugly 5100 watches for under £100, but I can't find anything for less than £400 now. It is possible that such donors have faults too. There are many idiots that date-set when the mechanism is meshed and mash up the day/date system, and the winding can end up a bit flakey.
    Lastly, Tissot re-used many of the 5100 designs in a more recent movement of their own, there was supposed to be a degree of crposs-compatability between the new movement and the 5100, but not for all parts (as the hand format and therefore gear locations/sizes do differ. It depends what you are looking for. Do you know?

    My understanding is that, if properly maintained and disassembled/re-assembled then the only real Achilles heel in terms of wear is the auto winding, as it doesn't use a proper bearing, per se.

    It's lovely to have someone attempt to devalue all 5100s by stating they would rather drill their own teeth than service one. That really helps everyone. Well done.

    I know it is a mechanical watch with plastic parts, but many of those are not wearing parts at all (main shassis plates etc). It remains maintainable. It is now a venerable 46 years since the first 5100s were produced, so it doesn't fair that badly.

    What do you need?

    Dave

  14. #14
    It's certainly doable - however, there are two main issues. Firstly it's hard to find a commercial 3D printer that has an acceptable level of tolerance (accuracy of machining) for most watch parts (especially the smaller ones). Secondly, metal 3D printers are very expensive whereas plastic parts are usually not durable enough. These watch parts can be milled fairly easily with the right equipment :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Crazy thought, but could a 3D printer produce any necessary parts? It's mostly the plastic parts that wear and need replacing so … it might work?

    DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about 3D printing

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I’d rather drill my own teeth than work on one of these, horrible things. Plastic parts in the wrong places, very poor parts availability, lots of little springs to assemble and potentially lose........no way!

    Repairers aren’t supposed to damage or lose parts, but occasionally it can happen. The hapless watchie then needs a ‘get out of jail’ card to sort out the problem and if parts are scarce that will prove costly. Far too stressful for my liking. On a risk/ reward basis its sometimes worth taking these jobs on and charging a price that reflects the risk, but thesedays I won’t do that.

    Blame Swatch Group for stopping supply of parts, you all had your chance to protest in 2015 when this policy came in but the silence was deafening. Cousins are still fighting their corner on this one but I’m not optimistic.
    I've got a couple of watches with the 5100 as the base calibre (a Sinn and an Omega) and I would only have them serviced in-house so hopefully part availability and expertise shouldn't be a problem (at least it wasn't when I did have them serviced).

  16. #16
    Master
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    Dave, thank you for the comprehensive reply. The issue is that winding is very stiff and when wound horizontally, as in watch parallel to the ground, it vibrates. And itís a pretty damned hefty vibration. When wound vertically it does not. So itís very similar to this that I found:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-spin-any-tips

    The rotor appears to be spinning freely and the watch is self-winding fine. Chrono hands etc are all functioning as they should, as are the pushers

  17. #17
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    A-ha, so it is a lack of free-spinning on the auto winding. Your crown is effectively driving the rotor round and round very quickly (making the vibration), and not when the watch is vertical as the mere friction cannot actually lift the rotor weight (even if it can spin it when flat).
    Clean and Lubrication may well be sufficient, but a full service is prudent as the lubricant there has certainly gone, and it may well have disappeared elsewhere.
    You may not need any parts, so don't worry about parts availability until you know you need some. I am happy to help find any you may need.
    All the best
    Dave

  18. #18
    Master
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    Thanks so much Dave. PM'd you

  19. #19
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Blame Swatch Group for stopping supply of parts, you all had your chance to protest in 2015 when this policy came in but the silence was deafening. Cousins are still fighting their corner on this one but Iím not optimistic.
    I wonder what will happen to spare parts for ETA movements generally (e.g. ETA2836-2 movements in many micro-brands like Damasko)?

    I blame Swatch but donít understand their commercial strategy. Theyíve given away a healthy business for little or nothing in return. Effectively, Swatch has handed over commercial income on a plate to Sellitta! Or am I missing something?

  20. #20
    Master
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    Just been reading a few articles on the background of Cousins vs. Swatch. Very interesting. Cousins must be spending a tidy sum on fighting this, and I bet the opposing costs are little more than an itchy ass for Swatch. As an aside... interesting attire from Anthony Cousins Maybe a 'subtle' way of saying he's ready for battle in the court?

    https://www.watchpro.com/cousins-pub...-parts-supply/

  21. #21
    Master
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    I've had a response from Olivier and he can do it but parts are an issue. Terry Casey and Simon Freese are still to come back to me, and Charles Martin have said they can do it but the service cost alone is £400. Would anyone else have recommendations for a service?
    Last edited by Schofie; 10th December 2020 at 16:50.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    I've had a response from Olivier and he can do it but parts are an issue. Terry Casey and Simon Freese are still to come back to me, and Charles Martin have said they can do it but the service cost alone if £400. Would anyone else have recommendations for a service?
    I believe Charles Martin include in that price delivery both ways, which does help a little with the cost. But yes, they're upper end pricings.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    I believe Charles Martin include in that price delivery both ways, which does help a little with the cost. But yes, they're upper end pricings.
    Indeed they do. They send a package out for you to be able to send your watch. I do like little touches like that

    This is the watch in question. Absolutely love it

    Last edited by Schofie; 10th December 2020 at 17:32.

  24. #24
    I spoke to Bill Rice in Beverley about servicing my 5012 a while ago; he was keen and able but did also mention the availability of parts would be a potential issue.

    http://williamricewatches.com

  25. #25
    Master
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    So update for anyone who's interested:

    Simon Freese - can service @ £336 including postage, and has no issue with parts
    Terry Casey - can serice @ £350 but does have issues with parts so the warranty may be affected
    Charles Martin - can service @ £400 including postage, and has no issue with parts
    Olivier - can service @ £350 but has an issue with parts
    Bill Rice does not service the 5100

    So there are only two that don't have issues with parts, and it's Simon Freese who I'm going to go with on this one. He's got a great reputation and is best priced, and has access to the parts. Winner!

  26. #26
    Just contacted Simon Freese too - thank you Schofie. Mine's running fine, but I'm very wary of things going awry later on given the movement.

    Edit: I had no idea he assembled watches? That's a rather nice homage https://freesewatches.uk/freese-101-1

  27. #27
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    So update for anyone who's interested:

    Simon Freese - can service @ £336 including postage, and has no issue with parts
    Charles Martin - can service @ £400 including postage, and has no issue with parts

    So there are only two that don't have issues with parts, and it's Simon Freese who I'm going to go with on this one. He's got a great reputation and is best priced, and has access to the parts. Winner!
    I'm curious how they have access to parts. I thought parts were mainly a problem because there were none? I'll be extremely happy to be wrong

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I'm curious how they have access to parts. I thought parts were mainly a problem because there were none? I'll be extremely happy to be wrong
    I'm guessing some have stockpiled doners over time

  29. #29
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    I'm guessing some have stockpiled doners over time
    True.

    I might have to give Simon Freese a ring then. Althought the Tutima is going strong and keeping good time, it wouldn't hurt to keep it safe for another 10 years.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    So update for anyone who's interested:

    Simon Freese - can service @ £336 including postage, and has no issue with parts
    Terry Casey - can serice @ £350 but does have issues with parts so the warranty may be affected
    Charles Martin - can service @ £400 including postage, and has no issue with parts
    Olivier - can service @ £350 but has an issue with parts
    Bill Rice does not service the 5100

    So there are only two that don't have issues with parts, and it's Simon Freese who I'm going to go with on this one. He's got a great reputation and is best priced, and has access to the parts. Winner!
    This is really helpful - many thanks.

  31. #31
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Of course it is an Omega-used movement (in Speedmasters of various types for at least 14 years) so Omega will be able to support it.
    Dave

  32. #32
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Of course it is an Omega-used movement (in Speedmasters of various types for at least 14 years) so Omega will be able to support it.
    Dave
    I didnít realise Omega had used the Lemania 5100 in Speedmasters. Very interesting

  33. #33
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    I didnít realise Omega had used the Lemania 5100 in Speedmasters. Very interesting
    Yes. They named the movement 1045


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  34. #34
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    I didnít realise Omega had used the Lemania 5100 in Speedmasters. Very interesting
    I did mention it in my first post.........

    This was my Omega 176.0012



    Dave

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepreddave View Post
    If you need another name then I'd expect Simon Freese would take it on.
    Simon Freese did mine recently

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

  36. #36
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    I'm guessing some have stockpiled doners over time
    I knew somebody who used to do that, until he had to go on a diet.
    Die Zeit verwandelt uns nicht, sie entfaltet uns nur.

  37. #37
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ar.parask View Post
    Yes. They named the movement 1045
    I knew that bit. Just hadnít clicked that theyíd used it in Speedmasters. Not sure how I didnít realise that

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    I did mention it in my first post.........

    This was my Omega 176.0012

    Dave
    ...and as I mentioned in mine (I also mentioned Sinn).
    This is my Omega 376.0822:


  39. #39
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    ...and as I mentioned in mine (I also mentioned Sinn).
    This is my Omega 376.0822:

    I absolutely love this one. A definite grail of mine...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  40. #40
    Craftsman AKM's Avatar
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    Christian aka Watchguy does 5100s

    https://watchguy.co.uk/

    He has a blog where you can see his work and if you choose to use him, you'll get access to updates with lots of photos as the work is carried out.

    I think it's worth finding someone who is familiar with the calibre and likes working on it. You can see examples on his blog of work being carried out.

    I've no idea on his access to parts - I suspect whoever you use, you'll need to send the watch for an estimate and it'll depend what parts are needed.

    Sent from my JSN-L21 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by AKM; 11th December 2020 at 21:21.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    Indeed they do. They send a package out for you to be able to send your watch. I do like little touches like that

    This is the watch in question. Absolutely love it


    Good watches!


  42. #42
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    Lots of good info here. My watch guy, and Omega specialist, refers to the Lemania 5100 movement problem discussed here as "helicoptering". It's fairly common for the 5100 to do this and it's purely a lubrication problem. Several of my watches have had this issue, though interestingly never an Omega 1045.

  43. #43
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    He's just finished servicing a Tutima F3 for me, with the Lemania 5100. I know he has at least 12 different lubricants he uses, 9 of which he used on this watch. And he'll only use Moebius 9010 synthetic oil for the rotor bearing.

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