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Thread: New to watches - manual winding - how do you fine the convience?

  1. #1
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    New to watches - manual winding - how do you fine the convience?

    I’m quite new to mechanical watches, I’ve had quartz (mostly Seiko and Citizen) for most of my life.

    A couple of years back I did buy a Seiko SKX007 to see if I could get on with less precision. Actually, although not certified, it runs within COSC, and I didn’t find the slight inaccuracy a problem. What stopped me wearing it was the weight,I couldn’t get it to sit right on my wrist. So it has been sat in the draw for some time and I back with a pretty old Seiko kinetic - must get round to selling the SKX007.

    Anyway, the reason I’m posting is that I am looking at Flieger watches, not decided on type A or B yet. The reason is that I am a fan of military history and aviation and like the styling. I’d like to get it as representative as possible, but happy to compromise - I wouldn’t go as far as a 55mm with an extra long strap to wear over my coat :)

    Looking at the options, I can have the original model/serial number engraved which I will probably do.

    The other is a manual wind option.

    Not sure about this, I have google and read articles about the differences between manual and automatic, I understand those and I can see there are fans of both.

    I just wondered what it is like owning a manual winder

    Is it an inconvenience, or does it just become a routine in the morning
    Would it mean that if I took it off and left it on the shelf overnight it would lose/gain time because it is stationary
    Do you have to pull the crown to wind

    Cheers,

    Nigel

  2. #2
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    In my experience it becomes a small part of your routine.

    I don't sleep in my watches, so if I only had a hand winder, I'd wake up, wind it and put it on, it takes, what, 10 seconds?

    I've got two pocket watches on stands around the house, they need winding daily, but it's just something I do, like eating breakfast or brushing my teeth.

    The only thing with those is that if I go away they stop and need resetting, but if you're talking about a daily wearer watch, you'd have it with you anyway.

    With a flieger, the more realistic, the less practical on the whole - I like the style, but settled on a more practically sized Laco Aachen (actually I have two now), which has an automatic movement and is 42mm across.

    Laco made some of the original watches, so you're getting that connection, but the Aachen is a more usable (and affordable) option than many of the more 'authentic' fliegers (including their own, higher spec models).

    Happy hunting!

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  3. #3
    My Precista CAF keeps excellent time after its recent service. But yes winding it is the first thing I do when I get out of bed and if you do forget it takes seconds to wind and set and can be done on the wrist

  4. #4
    Master JDB's Avatar
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    It's no problem at all. I usually wear watches 24/7 so a manual tends to get wound on my wrist just after waking up. Better to wind in the morning than the evening.

    Also, you will find that it takes more turns to get it fully wound from scratch than you will need on a day-to-day basis. The power reserve will keep it going if you forget to wind one day.
    Last edited by JDB; 3rd December 2020 at 10:33.

  5. #5
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    I wind my manual watch when I get up each morning.

  6. #6
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Take your right hand and make that universal hand gesture for cash where you rub thumb and first finger together. Do this for about 20 seconds. This simulates what it is like to own and wind a hand-winding watch.

  7. #7
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    The only hand-winders I've owned have been Speedy Pros. Not really a hassle to wind it, you get into the routine. As I would choose that day's watch, it would usually need a wind to start, and I'd wind the Speedy too.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Take your right hand and make that universal hand gesture for cash where you rub thumb and first finger together. Do this for about 20 seconds. This simulates what it is like to own and wind a hand-winding watch.
    LOL

    Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Depends what you consider an inconvinience, it takes about 10 seconds a day because it is already part wound.

    I find that i forget sometimes though if i have not used one for a long time

  10. #10
    I’ve only ever owned one hand winder (exc. my great grandfather’s pocket watch). As others have said, you need to remember to wind it as you put it on / take it off in the morning /night, but I quite enjoy doing that. There’s an old school charm to it.

  11. #11
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I love manual wind watches, its a nice routine, I will only say, avoid screw down crown manual wind watches, that becomes a bit of a faff and the tube threads will deteriorate over time.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  12. #12
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    I prefer a manual winder. I find that I wind my watch before bed. I don't wear mine to bed but I just wind it when I take it off for bed. I like winding my watch as it gives me an interaction other than just wearing it. Stowa makes some nice pilot and military style watches and what makes them interesting is that you can order direct from them and have some options for customizing.

    I just bought one of Eddies new releases in the Smith's Navigator PRS-48 which is a true homage to the IWC MK11, and a very fine watch it is and of course it is a manual wind only. Another great manual wind watch is the Hamilton Khaki Mechanical.

  13. #13
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    Manual is good choice if you don't wear watch most of the time during a day.

    As long as you wind once per day, you know it will keep ticking. If you wear automatic few hours per day only, the power reserve may slowly drain, and watch stops.

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    I started wearing watches when I was about 7 or 8 and didn't have one that wasn't manually wound until I was about 17 - a Texas Instruments LED - so for me hand wound watches are a sort of homecoming. Old school charm, as someone pointed out above. Personally I find them more convenient than autos, because - probably irrationally - I don't like to wind those manually, and I don't always wear one for hours every day.

    But less convenient than solar. However that's a different conversation.

  15. #15
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    Wow, thanks for all the responses.

    I guess one thing I need to find out is whether the watch has a screw down crown as I agree that could be a bit of faff.

    I’ll have a look at the Laco too.

    Cheers,

    Nigel

  16. #16
    Master JDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nheather View Post
    Wow, thanks for all the responses.

    I guess one thing I need to find out is whether the watch has a screw down crown as I agree that could be a bit of faff.

    I’ll have a look at the Laco too.

    Cheers,

    Nigel

    Best not to have a screw down crown on a hand winder.

  17. #17
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDB View Post
    Best not to have a screw down crown on a hand winder.
    Are there actually any screw down crown manual wind watches out there? Seems like a recipe for disaster to the point of it being a design flaw!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDB View Post
    It's no problem at all. I usually wear watches 24/7 so a manual tends to get wound on my wrist just after waking up. Better to wind in the morning than the evening.

    Also, you will find that it takes more turns to get it fully wound from scratch than you will need on a day-to-day basis. The power reserve will keep it going if you forget to wind one day.
    I always advocate winding morning and evening for 2 reasons. It safeguards against the watch stopping if you forget once, and it ensures the watch remains running in a higher state of wind which should benefit the precision.

    I now own only 1 hand-wound watch and I sometimes forget to wind it....happens to the best of us!

    When buying vintage there's an argument in favour of hand-wounds, they're less likely to give trouble. Most faults I find are due to wear and tear in the auto-winding mechanism or wear to the inside of the barrel walls, these problems require new parts which are often expensive or v. hard to source. For this reason a vintage watch should never go near a watch winder!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Are there actually any screw down crown manual wind watches out there? Seems like a recipe for disaster to the point of it being a design flaw!
    I only ever had one, this one:



    Only wore it occasionally but I expect it would have worn down the threads eventually if I'd used it all the time.

    I seem to recall there was a third-party modified version of the Daytona converted to handwound.

    Yes, found it:

    https://monochrome-watches.com/artis...-review-price/

  20. #20
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nheather View Post
    Wow, thanks for all the responses.

    I guess one thing I need to find out is whether the watch has a screw down crown as I agree that could be a bit of faff.

    I’ll have a look at the Laco too.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
    You can of course buy a Laco as an automatic like mine.

    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  21. #21
    Part of my vigourous fitness regime, but work up to it gradually .

  22. #22
    Master JDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Are there actually any screw down crown manual wind watches out there? Seems like a recipe for disaster to the point of it being a design flaw!
    I seem to recall Sinn doing a special edition 103(?) some years ago with a handwind movement and a screw down crown. But you're right, there can't be too many around.

    PS I guess you wouldn't screw down the crown unless you needed to.

  23. #23
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    There's something more intimate about a watch that requires manual winding. I don't find it inconvenient because I enjoy the little ritual, but I imagine the majority of people would think it was an annoyance.

  24. #24
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Are there actually any screw down crown manual wind watches out there? Seems like a recipe for disaster to the point of it being a design flaw!
    The Precista PRS20LE was one. I've had one since new (2007?) & never had a problem with the screw-down crown. However, some have been converted to push-in crowns due to damaged threads. I think all the non-LEs were push-ins, but that may be incorrect.

    As the PRS20 was a homage to a Panerai Radiomir, they too have had screw-down hand-wind models.
    ______

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDB View Post
    Best not to have a screw down crown on a hand winder.
    And why not. I have Swiss Made Serica WWW, WMB Edition which houses the ETA-2801-2 and it has a screw down crown and I have to say that if you have a well made case and screw down tube it isn't a problem. When I screw it down it is like butter. I do only wind it once a day, but I do that with my push/pull crowns also.

  26. #26
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    Many Russian watches have manual wind movements with screw down crowns, never heard of any problems.

  27. #27
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    I love my hand wind speedy, actually find it easier than owning an auto, just wind it everyday and you are done.



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  28. #28
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    I almost find it meditating to wind my watch every morning. You take a "winding minute" all to yourself without distractions

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Many Russian watches have manual wind movements with screw down crowns, never heard of any problems.
    Agreed. I have a Vostok Komanderskie field watch. Had it for 11 years from new. I don't wear it all the time, but often enough. Screw in crown. Winding action as smooth as butter too. Crown mechanism doesn't seem to have degraded at all. Designed for it and job well done. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.

    Can't speak for other makes with screw down crowns though. As for hand winds, no problem for me, most of my watches I wear today are manual winds.

  30. #30
    It's probably an age thing but it never occurred to me that winding a watch could be considered an inconvenience. Maybe my gradfather felt the same way about using a starting handle to get a car going!

  31. #31
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post
    It's probably an age thing but it never occurred to me that winding a watch could be considered an inconvenience. Maybe my gradfather felt the same way about using a starting handle to get a car going!
    Nor me, excluding those with some kind of physical issue with their hand, I would like to know who is so busy that a 20 second activity involving zero physical effort is considered an inconvenience. I mean...you can even do it whilst doing something else like sitting on the loo if time is that much of a problem. Also find those who claim winding is a zen like experience a bit OTT...its just winding a watch.

    Maybe I'm not WIS enough to either consider this a problem or have a love for the activity.

  32. #32
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    I've not owned a hand winder either but - Am I correct in thinking that you cannot 'over wind' these watches and what is it that prevents this?
    Thanks

  33. #33
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snedboy View Post
    My Precista CAF keeps excellent time after its recent service. But yes winding it is the first thing I do when I get out of bed and if you do forget it takes seconds to wind and set and can be done on the wrist
    It’s actually not advisable to wind on the wrist - undue pressure on the crown stem will cause damage over time.

  34. #34
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddiex View Post
    I've not owned a hand winder either but - Am I correct in thinking that you cannot 'over wind' these watches and what is it that prevents this?
    Thanks
    You can over wind. You start to feel some resistance when the watch is nearly fully wound. After a few times of doing you get to know how many winds and when the resistance kicks in.

    I understand you can't over wind an automatic watch, but happy to be corrected, but you can certainly cause damage if you over wind a manual watch.

  35. #35
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    You can over wind. You start to feel some resistance when the watch is nearly fully wound. After a few times of doing you get to know how many winds and when the resistance kicks in.

    I understand you can't over wind an automatic watch, but happy to be corrected, but you can certainly cause damage if you over wind a manual watch.
    I thought for most modern manual winds it was pretty much impossible to overwind by accident. Or at least I hope that's the case, as I wind until I feel it stop on mine which does seem to be the manufacturer guidance!

    I think with vintage in particular it's a big issue.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I understand you can't over wind an automatic watch, but happy to be corrected
    Don't have any non-autos (that aren't quartz), but I always wind an auto close to my ear so that I can hear the extra clicking of the slipping clutch when it's fully wound.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    It’s actually not advisable to wind on the wrist - undue pressure on the crown stem will cause damage over time.
    Good to know. I don’t do it very often

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Are there actually any screw down crown manual wind watches out there? Seems like a recipe for disaster to the point of it being a design flaw!
    Vintage Rolex
    Serica




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  39. #39
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1011 View Post
    I thought for most modern manual winds it was pretty much impossible to overwind by accident. Or at least I hope that's the case, as I wind until I feel it stop on mine
    I think that is effectively the same point I made on resistance. To carry on winding after that point is not advisable and could cause damage. Just a case of getting used to the watch I suppose.

    The first Speedmaster I had I kept under winding it and the damn thing kept stopping on me.

  40. #40
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    It’s actually not advisable to wind on the wrist - undue pressure on the crown stem will cause damage over time.
    Indeed. Also, if your watch has a glass back you can watch the whirligigs moving as you wind it.
    F.T.F.A.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by lughugger View Post
    Vintage Rolex
    Serica

    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    I really like the Serica WWW but the fact it has a screw down crown and a manual wind movement really put me off. Surely it’s a recipe for wearing out/cross threading?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Tetley View Post
    I really like the Serica WWW but the fact it has a screw down crown and a manual wind movement really put me off. Surely it’s a recipe for wearing out/cross threading?
    I had one of the first release Sericas and it felt as though there was a clear separation from the threads when the crown was unwound. I would hope that if you were spec’ing a screw down crown and a manual movement that the engineering of the winding crown would be top of your priorities as a maker.
    I think that I’m right in saying that the Rolex Oyster Perpetual has a screw down crown. There are plenty of those alive and ticking 30+ years after they were discontinued though whether the crown tube needs replacing regularly I haven’t a clue!


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  43. #43
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    The Precista PRS20LE was one. I've had one since new (2007?) & never had a problem with the screw-down crown. However, some have been converted to push-in crowns due to damaged threads. I think all the non-LEs were push-ins, but that may be incorrect.

    As the PRS20 was a homage to a Panerai Radiomir, they too have had screw-down hand-wind models.
    Oh yes, I remember now. At the time, I really wanted a PRS20 but that was the sole reason I didnt get one.

  44. #44
    I wouldn't mind manually winding a watch that I wear occasionally but doing that to a daily wear watch would be a chore.

    Besides I always feel that if it has a screw down crown having to do that winding every time, I'd have to unscrew and screw back the crown & that will most definitely aggravate the thread wear.

  45. #45
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    Apologies to the OP but -

    Newbie question - I'm interested in a Smiths PRS-29 that has the ETA2801-2 movement. With regards to the use of the crown and how it operates, is it a case of pulling out the crown to the first position to wind it and second position to set the time?

    Thanks

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddiex View Post
    Apologies to the OP but -

    Newbie question - I'm interested in a Smiths PRS-29 that has the ETA2801-2 movement. With regards to the use of the crown and how it operates, is it a case of pulling out the crown to the first position to wind it and second position to set the time?

    Thanks
    You wouldn’t need to pull out the crown to wind this particular watch, though you’d pull the crown out to set the time.

  47. #47
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    Great! Thank you.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    Its always been my understanding that you can't 'over wind' a manual watch. You simply keep winding it until you can't wind it any further- obviously without exerting brute force.

    The 'over winding" thing comes from when a worn out mainspring snaps but still functions in an unreliable fashion. In such cases as you don't reach a point of resistance you can keep winding like an automatic. However as the integrity of the spring has been compromised running can be inconsistent and stop/start. This leads to the conclusion that winding it too much is causing the running problems as opposed to it needing a new main spring.

    As I understand it, if the movement is in good order from a servicing perspective and the mainspring in good condition its not possible to 'over wind' - however if excessive brute force is used then damage can occur of course.

    I've owned many hand winders since I was a boy and have simply wound them as far as they will go applying moderate pressure - never had to 'learn" how many turns needed from being full or partially unwound. On one occasion an old Russian piece's mainspring gave way when I reached the point of resistance, when I had it replaced the watchmaker said that it was very tired and a new one was needed anyway.

    Paul comments on the 'myth' of overwinding below:

    Based on experience, I agree with this. When I wind my 29a, I wind it until I can't. Ditto my Speedmaster. I've had the 29a for about 10 years and the Speedy for 20. The same is true for other handwound watches I've had - off the top of my head a Poljot, an old Sekonda, a couple of Seikos and others. A few that I had as a kid, as well. I certainly don't apply excessive pressure but it's obvious when they're fully wound.

  49. #49
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    It’s actually not advisable to wind on the wrist - undue pressure on the crown stem will cause damage over time.

    True, particularly with a large crown fitted to a tap 9 stem (not uncommon), all too easy to bend the stem.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I think that is effectively the same point I made on resistance. To carry on winding after that point is not advisable and could cause damage. Just a case of getting used to the watch I suppose.

    The first Speedmaster I had I kept under winding it and the damn thing kept stopping on me.
    Once a watch is fully wound its obvious, the crown doesn’t want to turn any further. Think about it, the spring is wound tightly around the barrel arbour and its physically impossible to wind it tighter. If excessive force is applied by continuing to turn the crown despite the obvious resistance something will break, either the stem will break, ratchet wheel or crown wheel teeth will break, the spring itself will break at its weakest point or the barrel arbour itself will fail. I wouldn’t term this as over- winding, just clumsiness and total kack of empathy with mechanical items. As a kid who grew up in the 60s I was surrounded by clockwork toys, clocks that required hand- winding, and from the age of 8 a hand- wound watch. Understanding clockwork mechanisms was second nature, and learning the consequences of trying to over- wind was part if it.

    When winding a watch my advice is to be careful but not over-cautious, don't be scared of fully winding it.

    99% of owners won’t have a problem.........but there’s always one. I take in a few jobs from a trade contact and was given a hand- wound recently with a suspected broken spring, it had all the symptoms ( wind the crown, watch won’t run, and it never gets fully wound). When I stripped the barrel down I was surprised to find the spring was fine. I couldn’t see a problem so I refitted the spring and it was no better. At this point you know the answer’s there, you just haven’t looked hard enough. I started inspecting parts with the strong glass and found the barrel arbour to be fractured, there’s a small tear- shaped pip that hooks onto the end of the spring and this one had sheared off. I had a spare one so I built the watch back up and all was well.

    I never learned the full story behind this, either the arbour was faulty ( very unlikely) or someone had applied seriously excessive force by continuing to wind the crown when the watch was obviously fully wound. A strange one!

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