Fakes / Replicas

[TaketheCannoli]

I've thought long and hard about posting this but I feel my reputation and longevity here will support my honest love for watches and (now increased) loathing of fakes / replicas.

A few months ago I got into the tiresome conversation about fakes / replicas / homages with a friend. Said friend cannot understand why anyone would spend thousands on a watch when "there are ways to get perfect replicas from China and nobody would ever know".

After schooling him on the negative impact these things have on the industry I also had to ask "who are you trying to impress? Do you want people to think you can afford a (insert brand name)?" "Isn't it better to spend your money on a genuine watch like the rest of us do?"

This all fell on deaf ears and sure enough he ordered one. Now as he knows I'm a fan of the Explorer, low-and-behold he's only gone and bought me a fake. Very kind of him but.... :(

An Explorer 1 no less. Now we come to the reason for me posting this. With the knowledge on this forum I doubt anyone would get duped when thinking they're buying the real thing however there are people in the general population (particularly using eBay) that would definitely be fooled as the quality of this thing is phenomenal. I just can't believe how good it is. To the untrained eye this is a Rolex Explorer.

The dial is stunning and the markers spot-on. The rehaut is correctly marked too I believe. Now in the hands of the Rolex experts they will be able to spot it but I tell you what, I would have had to come to the forum experts as I wouldn't have had a clue whether it's real or not.

As for wearing it, I can't. Honestly there's something very, very grubby about having it on. I know it's a fake and that doesn't sit at all well with me. I certainly wouldn't want anyone that knows me to think I had a real one when the likelihood of me affording one is unlikely. What would I say if asked whether it's real? It doesn't even get a place in the watch box, it's relegated to a separate drawer.

There's no winner in the answer to that question. What I will say though is that I now know I don't like that model, it does nothing for me at all.

So for those people here that aren't Rolex experts and are thinking of buying one, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get the right advice from the right experts. PLEASE don't take the chance of being ripped off.

As for me, I have a watch that I won't wear :(

I don't think I should post pics as Eddie would then have pics of a fake on his site.

Be careful out there!

[Alansmithee]

Why even use the term replica? It's language used by counterfeiters to soften what they do - it belong in the bin alongside "child porn" (children cannot make porn - it's child abuse).


As for Homages - I'm not keen on them for atheistic reasons but they don't belong in this conversation as there is no attempt to deceive.

[TaketheCannoli]

Correct. The conversation included a discussion about homages, not that they're the same thing as fakes. I should have made that clear in my post.

Why even use the term replica? It's language used by counterfeiters to soften what they do - it belong in the bin alongside "child porn" (children cannot make porn - it's child abuse).


As for Homages - I'm not keen on them for atheistic reasons but they don't belong in this conversation as there is no attempt to deceive.

[aldfort]

I note that quite a few Youtubers have been bringing this to light recently. The correct thing to do with these fakes is to take an angle grinder to them apparently. (Just make sure your freind did not secretly win the lottery first though! )

[Ruggertech]

Correct. The conversation included a discussion about homages, not that they're the same thing as fakes. I should have made that clear in my post.

Fully understand you not wanting to wear it, but not doing so could offend your friend? Perhaps you could mod it with a sterile dial, and voila, a homage watch and an unoffended friend.
Yes, your friends purchase of the watch (against your advice it has to be said) has indeed helped to undermine the watch industry, and has very possibly utilised forced child labour, and may have even funded terrorism. But it is bought now and can't be unbought, so modding it to remove rolex references could be the best way to make something good-ish come of it. Destroying the watch is of course the normal and correct thing to do, but does the potential price of losing a friend justify this?

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[MrGrumpy]

Why even use the term replica? It's language used by counterfeiters to soften what they do


As for Homages - I'm not keen on them for atheistic reasons but they don't belong in this conversation as there is no attempt to deceive.

I was going to make a similar point about Homages - I've no problem with them, but if you do, then that's a different conversation to one involving fakes.
As for 'replicas', its often used for ridiculously expensive but very accurate fakes - but you are probably right in that its a bit of a weasel word - a fake by another name.

[Kingstepper]

Why even use the term replica? It's language used by counterfeiters to soften what they do - it belong in the bin alongside "child porn" (children cannot make porn - it's child abuse).


As for Homages - I'm not keen on them for atheistic reasons but they don't belong in this conversation as there is no attempt to deceive.

I see replica, fake and counterfeit watches as different terms for the same thing.

BTW what about watch porn, watch pictures even - presumably they can’t exist.

[monogroover]

Why even use the term replica? It's language used by counterfeiters to soften what they do - it belong in the bin alongside "child porn"

Wow - second post in and this escalated quickly!

[Christian]

I notice it only took one post before the usual TZ-UK fake-watch hysteria came to the fore and it was compared to “child porn”.

I’m not saying fakes aren’t bad and I appreciate the criminality then are associated with but I’m always face-palming when I read these threads.

[Mick P]

I notice it only took one post before the usual TZ-UK fake-watch hysteria came to the fore and it was compared to “child porn”.

I’m not saying fakes aren’t bad and I appreciate the criminality then are associated with but I’m always face-palming when I read these threads.

I was involved in anti counterfeiting from the late seventies until about 2001/2002. Counterfeiting is a nasty industry where the damage is not seen or even heard about by those who buy the fake goods. It seems a victimless crime but it is responsible for thousands upon thousands of children and adults being forced into sweatshops in totally inhumane conditions.

If you spent just one day sitting on some of the committees I sat on, you would never facepalm again.

[Christian]

I was involved in anti counterfeiting from the late seventies until about 2001/2002. Counterfeiting is a nasty industry where the damage is not seen or even heard about by those who buy the fake goods. It seems a victimless crime but it is responsible for thousands upon thousands of children and adults being forced into sweatshops in totally inhumane conditions.

If you spent just one day sitting on some of the committees I sat on, you would never facepalm again.

Believe me I know because I’ve had it explained how evil it is in a patronising way hundreds of times on TZ.

I also wonder how dissimilar they are to Foxconn (the Apple factory) where the Chinese had to install anti-suicide nets for the workers. But that’s legal, so it’s all fine to keep posting on these threads on your iPhone/iPad. I doubt any of this is black and white, merely all dubious shades of grey.

[Hood]

[QUOTE=Mick P;5601159 It seems a victimless crime but it is responsible for thousands upon thousands of children and adults being forced into sweatshops in totally inhumane conditions.

If you spent just one day sitting on some of the committees I sat on, you would never facepalm again.[/QUOTE]

Primark or Nike?

[Alansmithee]

I notice it only took one post before the usual TZ-UK fake-watch hysteria came to the fore and it was compared to “child porn”.

I’m not saying fakes aren’t bad and I appreciate the criminality then are associated with but I’m always face-palming when I read these threads.

Just to be clear - I was talking about *terminology* and language not making a direct comparison of the act.

There is a very strong push from counterfeiters to push a language (replica, trusted dealer etc) and build communities that normalise what they do by mirroring the language we use on watch collector sites (I have spend enough time on them for professional reasons as some members know).

It's why we should not use replica and always stick to fake.

[wileeeeeey]

In a way I see your friend's point. A long time ago before I got into watches I had a girlfriend who was into bags and spent silly amounts on them. I used to wonder who was the bigger idiot; the person spending £1k on a real handbag or the person £200 on a fake. I used to think both were idiots. Then I found watches.

Nice gesture from your friend. Personally I would keep it but I wouldn't wear it out of the house and I wouldn't have it in my watch box either.

[alzone]

After explaining your hatred of fake watches to him, he went and bought you one? Weird. Also, arent the high end fakes like £800? So he spent £800 on a gift for you which he knew you would hate. Again, weird.

[gcleminson]

After explaining your hatred of fake watches to him, he went and bought you one? Weird. Also, arent the high end fakes like £800? So he spent £800 on a gift for you which he knew you would hate. Again, weird.

£800?? That makes it all the more puzzling.

[TaketheCannoli]

Especially as nobody ever said it was £800. I believe it was around the £150 mark which makes the quality even more astonishing.

£800?? That makes it all the more puzzling.

[Neil.C]

Especially as nobody ever said it was £800. I believe it was around the £150 mark which makes the quality even more astonishing.

Could have got a good watch for £150.

What a waste.

[TaketheCannoli]

Exactly my point in the first place!

Could have got a good watch for £150.

What a waste.

[verv]

After explaining your hatred of fake watches to him, he went and bought you one? Weird. Also, arent the high end fakes like £800? So he spent £800 on a gift for you which he knew you would hate. Again, weird.

Lower tier get the looks right.
High end gets the looks and most of the movement right as well.
You dont have to spend 800 on a clone fake. Shenzhen has come a long way lately.

[Mysqueek]

After explaining your hatred of fake watches to him, he went and bought you one? Weird. Also, arent the high end fakes like £800? So he spent £800 on a gift for you which he knew you would hate. Again, weird.

Just a matter of time before he asks ‘how’s your new ‘explorer?’ He’s the one wasting his money so just say ‘I haven’t worn it’

[davidj54]

I’ve never handled proper fake Rolex, other than a €30 piece of junk a street seller in Lanzarote tried to force onto me! But I have handled and worn a 214270 as my close pal owns it, and I can’t see how fakers could get anywhere near the quality of the feel and finish even if they can replicate the design and dimensions. The quality of the bracelet is off the scale, the luster of the 904 steel, the clarity of the white gold indices. I’m no Rolex fanboy, and I actually found that borrowing his Explorer was closure for me as I’d also lusted after one and ultimately it disappointed and I no longer want it. But there is no denying it is an absolute first class product made to the highest specifications - I can’t imagine if you’d felt one in your hand or on your wrist you’d be easily fooled by a $400 piece of junk from a Chinese factory? Or is that just naive? I know there are higher quality fakes out there of course.

[SimonK]

For me, the word 'replica' is correctly used by manufacturers to describe a new release of a bygone model - Omega and the FOIS Speedmaster for example.

[Papa Hotel]

I wouldn't put too much stock in deciding that you don't want an Explorer because you don't like the fake Explorer. It reads more to me like you recognise the grubbiness of the fake and have now made an association, conscious or otherwise, between the fake and the real deal. Lay your hands on a real one before deciding you don't want it.

[dougair]

I get your point on pics but it would be interesting to see a side by side comparison given your comments on the quality.

[Jdh1]

I’ve never handled proper fake Rolex, other than a €30 piece of junk a street seller in Lanzarote tried to force onto me! But I have handled and worn a 214270 as my close pal owns it, and I can’t see how fakers could get anywhere near the quality of the feel and finish even if they can replicate the design and dimensions. The quality of the bracelet is off the scale, the luster of the 904 steel, the clarity of the white gold indices. I’m no Rolex fanboy, and I actually found that borrowing his Explorer was closure for me as I’d also lusted after one and ultimately it disappointed and I no longer want it. But there is no denying it is an absolute first class product made to the highest specifications - I can’t imagine if you’d felt one in your hand or on your wrist you’d be easily fooled by a $400 piece of junk from a Chinese factory? Or is that just naive? I know there are higher quality fakes out there of course.

There are quite a few Youtube videos demonstrating that even the experts have to look very hard to tell the difference.

[MrGrumpy]

There are quite a few Youtube videos demonstrating that even the experts have to look very hard to tell the difference.

Exactly! I seem to recall Watchfinder had a video on there about how to tell a fake, and it was not easy! I recall a very alarming video from some American guy who went through every little facet that fakers can't quite get right - showing how it should look - then revealed that the watch he was demonstrating was actually a fake! Whilst it looked dead accurate, it had a s*** Chinese movement that lost 10 minutes a day, which I find just bizarre - if you are going to all that trouble, why not fit a semi-decent movement to it???

[inspector gadget]

I’ve never handled proper fake Rolex, other than a €30 piece of junk a street seller in Lanzarote tried to force onto me! But I have handled and worn a 214270 as my close pal owns it, and I can’t see how fakers could get anywhere near the quality of the feel and finish even if they can replicate the design and dimensions. The quality of the bracelet is off the scale, the luster of the 904 steel, the clarity of the white gold indices. I’m no Rolex fanboy, and I actually found that borrowing his Explorer was closure for me as I’d also lusted after one and ultimately it disappointed and I no longer want it. But there is no denying it is an absolute first class product made to the highest specifications - I can’t imagine if you’d felt one in your hand or on your wrist you’d be easily fooled by a $400 piece of junk from a Chinese factory? Or is that just naive? I know there are higher quality fakes out there of course.

(Proper fake Rolex) is that a thing now? Probably naive but dont let that worry you, there are things out there for less than $400 that will knock your eyes out. If it sounds too good to be true it might just be so, as Verv said they have come a long way in a short time and more are landing here every day.

[davidj54]

(Proper fake Rolex) is that a thing now? Probably naive but dont let that worry you, there are things out there for less than $400 that will knock your eyes out. If it sounds too good to be true it might just be so, as Verv said they have come a long way in a short time and more are landing here every day.

Ha, yeah ‘proper fake Rolex’ - I guess by that I meant something that is making a serious attempt to pretend to be the real thing, as opposed to the quite obviously cheap knock-off’s you see on holiday.

[Tom-P]

I had a very similar encounter with a friend a few years ago. Despite our having had more or less the same conversation as you describe, he brought me back a fake Breitling for Bentley from Thailand, asking me for the £50 it had cost him, and full of tales about the shop he goes to, where if you show interest they take you out the back to a room where the really good stuff is. I didn't have the heart to tell him what to do with it: knowing nothing about watches, he'd remembered that I liked Breitlings (that I loathe the BforBs would have eluded him) and clearly thought that sourcing this (on top of whatever other junk he bought) was a thoughtful thing to do. Though I did underline that I didn't want any more ...

[TaketheCannoli]

Ouch! We'll have a conversation about how grateful I am for his attempt to 'convince' but that unfortunately I won't wear it. I'll offer it back to him or I'll give him the money and keep the watch for washing the car or doing the garden.

I had a very similar encounter with a friend a few years ago. Despite our having had more or less the same conversation as you describe, he brought me back a fake Breitling for Bentley from Thailand, asking me for the £50 it had cost him, and full of tales about the shop he goes to, where if you show interest they take you out the back to a room where the really good stuff is. I didn't have the heart to tell him what to do with it: knowing nothing about watches, he'd remembered that I liked Breitlings (that I loathe the BforBs would have eluded him) and clearly thought that sourcing this (on top of whatever other junk he bought) was a thoughtful thing to do. Though I did underline that I didn't want any more ...

[RAJEN]

I don’t see the ‘public service’ aspect of the thread.
Everyone knows that there are fakes out there and some high quality ones. No one needs to be reminded.

[JGJG]

I don’t see the ‘public service’ aspect of the thread.
Everyone knows that there are fakes out there and some high quality ones. No one needs to be reminded.

Have to say I agree with this.

[Mysqueek]

So for those people here that aren't Rolex experts and are thinking of buying one, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get the right advice from the right experts. PLEASE don't take the chance of being ripped off.

Be careful out there!

This is a ticking time bomb (no pun intended) those who paid top dollar for a ‘preowned Sub’ that later turns out to be fake.

[Onelasttime]

I don't think I should post pics as Eddie would then have pics of a fake on his site.

Be careful out there!

Bit late for that …

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5585746

[verv]

Bad mercedes hand

[TaketheCannoli]

Forgot about that. Yep that's the one. A pretty good effort I'm sure you'll agree. See what I mean about the uninitiated being vulnerable?

Someone mentioned modding it earlier and I'd thought about that too, maybe a Dagaz or a sterile dial would make it wearable.

[southerner101]

I am on a Rolex facebook page and there are alot of people on there following the herd and will be prime targets to con men selling fakes as their knowledge is none and they are heavily influenced by influencers living exaggerated life styles and they to want a part of that lifestyle also.

Whats mad is people wearing fake Richard Mille watches and AP's etc. Half a million pound watches in some cases! crazy! imagine with your last breathe after being stabbed calling out to those fleeing "its a fake lads". I mean, if im going to be killed id rather go down as someone with impeccable taste in watches not some fugazi wearing sham!

[Thewatchbloke]

Bit late for that …

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5585746

It's a risky business posting fake Rolex's in the Friday thread, ask TieMiShu!

[notenoughwrists]

It's a risky business posting fake Rolex's in the Friday thread, ask TieMiShu!

That TieMiShu episode was ace. I’d been a member leas than a year, and he (she?) was a regular and respected contributor.

Was an absolute car-crash to see it all unfold. Great soap opera stuff.


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[davidzet]

That TieMiShu episode was ace. I’d been a member leas than a year, and he (she?) was a regular and respected contributor.

Was an absolute car-crash to see it all unfold. Great soap opera stuff.


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Ohhh... fun! Link?

[Papa Hotel]

Ohhh... fun! Link?

It's been linked to. You won't be able to see it anyway.

[dougair]

It's a risky business posting fake Rolex's in the Friday thread, ask TieMiShu!

Indeed...and with no mention of status of said watch!

[TaketheCannoli]

Status of said watch fully described in this thread.

Indeed...and with no mention of status of said watch!

[learningtofly]

Status of said watch fully described in this thread.

As a matter of interest, why did you post it on the Friday thread? That seems weird and makes me uncomfortable about the whole story.

[Onelasttime]

Status of said watch fully described in this thread.

But why did you 'quietly' post the pic two weeks ago and then nothing since?

I did chuckle at the Greggs cup with it though. I love their veggie sausage rolls. And the coffee's not bad either

[Onelasttime]

It's a risky business posting fake Rolex's in the Friday thread, ask TieMiShu!

Someone please post a link. It sounds like a fun Friday afternoon read.

[learningtofly]

Someone please post a link. It sounds like a fun Friday afternoon read.

It'll take you more than the afternoon

[I a n]

Someone please post a link. It sounds like a fun Friday afternoon read.

This was surreal... https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?t=177403

[Possu]

If the OP posts in a Friday thread my first instinct is to double check it’s actually friday. There is not a single member on this forum I distrust more. This is yet another red flag in a string of red flags that runs back farther than my deteriorating memory.