Is this worthy of a villain thread?

[Papa Hotel]

Sometimes it's best to let something lie than continually draw attention to the issue.

Further reading: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

[Hood]

To be fair I think Milwatch's reply does put a bit of context on it.
Not so much Villain as demanding/fussy buyer which doesn't suit some people(probably me) but which others might be happy to accomodate.
Tropical description is often a bit subjective on dials too.

[M1011]

TBH the only reason I think this is still spinning is because nobody has been able to figure out what the issue was with insuring for the correct amount.

The rest is all a bit moot. Asked for photos of the dial, asked for proof of current ownership - so what, it's his money and he's entitled to ask. Pulling out after agreeing the deal is poor, but not 4 pages of conversation noteworthy. It's the insurance that's a total puzzler and probably has a simple explanation.

[Saint-Just]

To be fair I think Milwatch's reply does put a bit of context on it.
Not so much Villain as demanding/fussy buyer which doesn't suit some people(probably me) but which others might be happy to accomodate.
Tropical description is often a bit subjective on dials too.

It does indeed put some context, but leaves out both the part where he said it was a done deal, and the part as to why he lost trust.

[Christian]

TBH the only reason I think this is still spinning is because nobody has been able to figure out what the issue was with insuring for the correct amount.

The rest is all a bit moot. Asked for photos of the dial, asked for proof of current ownership - so what, it's his money and he's entitled to ask. Pulling out after agreeing the deal is poor, but not 4 pages of conversation noteworthy. It's the insurance that's a total puzzler and probably has a simple explanation.

Exactly! It’s baffling how a refusal of the seller to under-insure a parcel undermines his trustworthiness.

[prexelor]

Here, let me help you, son. The best 65p you'll spend today.

I though that was going to be a link to The Sun.

[mr.chef]

I did not want to have to reply further to this post again but the quality of the post replies have went south lowering the usual standard of the forum and some members. I guess this is we’re we are ‘Instagram times’, and the new breed of watch collector expert who can’t use phone to talk to people? Throwing out toys and making remarks about a forum member with a long unquestioned standing and H&V history here and other platforms.
I have been watching this post and now I think it is time to discuss it. First of all it does not sit well with me having my good reputation being dismantled before my eyes. I understand Jack was disappointed and as time goes by he will learn not to hang his dirty laundry out in public as some others might. I also hope he and other will learn somethings from this post that are normal requests from experienced watch collectors. This is all in the pursuit of preventing a horror story occurring. Nothing was lost here except experienced gained on both sides. However, I hope no one on the forum will ever feel obliged to go through with a deal if they are not 100% confident or if circumstances change after reading childish posts like this one.

So here goes:
I did not ask for 35+ photographs from you, you sent them to me and they were very good but did not catch the colour of the dial in any of them? They almost looked generic.
I did not ask you to buy a specifically a given newspaper? The paper was to confirm that the watch was in your possession.
You did answer all of my questions (where was the watch sourced from?).
And most importantly as I mentioned during our correspondence your photographs did not catch a tropical colour? Therefore, it could not be called a true Pre moon Speedmaster tropical 1969 (their colour is ver specific). I explained this and described your watches dial as a hint of brown and not a true tropical like the one you used for comparison in one of you photographs. You never sent me any picture to satisfy me throughout? This is the main reason I was starting to go ff the deal the insurance nuisance was just another nail in the coffin of the deal and my confidence as a buyer.

During our correspondence I sent you quite a few pictures of my own, my tropical Rolex dial for comparison of a tropical dial with your Speedy along with other pictures of watches that I had for trade with your as you expressed an interest them and then did not (not a problem). This is part of buying and selling watches Jack. Maybe a little more experience under your belt with regards selling and buying watches. Yes, I understand you were disappointed but this is the game. I never did anything to be called a villain I am just a carful and once burnt watch collector who treats this hobby with respect as I do other watch enthusiasts

My reply to Jack on the day I decided not to go through with the deal and before this post was put on watch talk.

Dear Jack,

I feel there seems to be some loss of trust. I thank you very much for your time but it seems the distance is an issue together with the current times. I have in the past flown over and did deals with other members or sent bank transfers. Please have a look at my H&V's. I am sorry that this deal has went south. I would really have loved to have bought your watch. However, presently it seem its not going to happen, maybe at another time. I hope you have a great Christmas and your family and friends are safe.

Kind Regards,

Michael


I hope this puts this post to rest and if not can it be moved to the pit?

Christmas (Seasonal) greetings to all forum members.

Michael

• I didn’t refuse to talk to you on the phone and you never asked me to. If you had asked me I would have been fine with that and have talked to many forum member in length. I did one morning wake up to a missed call form you that you made at 9:37PM. Sorry I was asleep and I assumed you had called my mistake!
• You suggested it wasn’t a “true 69 tropical” not sure what you mean by that. I sent you a link to a blog by the biggest and most respected Speedmaster collector where he talks about the different shades of brown dial.
• I sent you 35 photos and you made an offer if you were not happy with the watch or photos why did you make an offer?
• What you don’t appear to have grasped is that you made repeated requests after the deal was accepted, if your not happy don’t make offers.
• You asked for a “trash paper (the sun etc.)” so I bought exactly as you had requested
• Could you please confirm what the insurance issue was? I informed you that with only £5000 of insurance the watch would me uninsured.
• Did you actually have any intention to go through with the deal or do you make offers willy-nilly?
• Are you saying you haven’t done something similar to another forum member?

[mr.chef]

Exactly! It’s baffling how a refusal of the seller to under-insure a parcel undermines his trustworthiness.

I didn't even refuse to send it this is the account of what happened.

"Please send me through you bank details. Been thinking about this, Can you also look into insurance postage of £5000."

"With insurance of £5000 the watch would be uninsured and there would be no payout"

"Sorry I dont understand?"

"The deal is for £5300 so if the insurance was only £5000 there would be no insurance as you can’t under insure"

Then the next day he pulled out. I can't see what the issue was and he still hasn't answered the question on who would have been responsible for any loss/damage.

[jukeboxs]

You both sound like an old married couple airing your dirty laundry in public. I don't think this thread was merited personally. The watch didn't sell but this seems more to do with poor communication and different opinions of at what stage a verbal agreement becomes a non-rescindable "done deal". No money lost, there's more to life. Move on, don't deal with other again, put the watch back up for sale (if it's a fair price it will likely find another buyer).

[If the OP had doubts about buying a different watch, I am sure he wouldn't feel obliged to proceed with the purchase, especially for such a sizeable sum. Maybe the "buyer" here needs to be more careful about his offers and communications in future.]

[Saint-Just]

You both sound like an old married couple airing your dirty laundry in public. I don't think this thread was merited personally.

I entirely disagree. I can only regret that, wanting to do the right thing, mr.chef raised the issue in WT where no one will look when checking on feedback.
I have no doubt that the buyer is a respectable watch collector, one of the longest standing members on this forum.
I also have no doubt that the seller is as respectable as the buyer.

From their respective accounts of what happened (there seems to be little difference between their versions, which is a credit to both) we can all draw our own conclusions as to who we would deal with, or not, and this alone justifies the existence of this thread.

[blackal]

I didn't even refuse to send it this is the account of what happened.

"Please send me through you bank details. Been thinking about this, Can you also look into insurance postage of £5000."

"With insurance of £5000 the watch would be uninsured and there would be no payout"

"Sorry I dont understand?"

"The deal is for £5300 so if the insurance was only £5000 there would be no insurance as you can’t under insure"

Then the next day he pulled out. I can't see what the issue was and he still hasn't answered the question on who would have been responsible for any loss/damage.

I’m going for ‘forgot what the deal amount was, and had the sum of £5k in his head’. Then, when you pointed out that the deal was for £5.3k - rather than admit he had been trying to drive down to £5k and that the figure had stuck in his head - he called the deal off - rather than admit “FFS - you’re right! Don’t know where I got that figure from!”

[Christian]

I entirely disagree. I can only regret that, wanting to do the right thing, mr.chef raised the issue in WT where no one will look when checking on feedback.
I have no doubt that the buyer is a respectable watch collector, one of the longest standing members on this forum.
I also have no doubt that the seller is as respectable as the buyer.

From their respective accounts of what happened (there seems to be little difference between their versions, which is a credit to both) we can all draw our own conclusions as to who we would deal with, or not, and this alone justifies the existence of this thread.

This sums it up for me.