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Thread: Is this worthy of a villain thread?

  1. #1

    Is this worthy of a villain thread?

    I thought I would ask here before naming the “buyer” as sometimes villain threads turn out for the worst. Here is a summary of the events over 10 days. I believe I’ve gone above and beyond to satisfy the buyers requests and have lost buyers for this over 5000 sale as told them it was sold. Is this worthy of a villain thread?

    • Buyer asked for additional high res photos.
    • I respond asking for their number so I can whatsapp them.
    • Buyer responds with his number asking me to try and capture the dial colour.
    • I send the buyer 35 details photos.
    • Buyer asked for additional photos showing dial colour.
    • I send additional photos including one of another brown dial speedy I have for comparison.
    • Buyer makes me an offer 5000 cash (head only) for the watch and asked me to take some photos of both speedys next to each other.
    • I mention to the buyer that the other speedy isn’t with me buy at my deposit box and ill collect it for the additional photos.
    • I go to my deposit box and collect the other brown speedy as well as another speedy for the 90’s where the dial hasn’t aged. Send additional comparison photos to the buyer.
    • Buyer makes another offer 5200 (head only) and also requests inner case, movement photos and service history.
    • I reply regarding the service history and suggest a price of 5400.
    • Buyer makes a counter offer of 5275.
    • Buyer makes another offer 21 minutes later of 5300 subject to movement photo.
    • I send photo and accept his offer of 5300 and let him know my location.
    • Buyer replies that the deal is done and he will get back to me when he has moved the funds for the transfer. He also asked for more photos and tells me he is actually in northern Ireland.
    • I tell him I wasn’t expecting to post it and didn’t want the responsibility but an option would be DHL but will be expensive.
    • Buyer replies that he is happy with special delivery and it's his call.
    • Buyer asked for additional photos this time with a copy of a trash newspaper.
    • I reply I don’t have any newspapers here.
    • Buyer asked for additional photos with paper again and confirms the deal is done.
    • Buyer asked for my closest airport.
    • I inform the buyer of the closest airport and tell him I don’t have a newspaper.
    • Buyer tells me to buy a newspaper.
    • I pick up the sun and send the buyer the photos as requested.
    • Buyer says money will be in his account by the end of the week and asked for the closest airport again.
    • I reply letting buyer know the closest airport.
    • Buyer asked for my bank details and also asked me to look into postage for 5000.
    • I reply letting the buyer know that the watch would have no insurance if it was insured for 5000.
    • Buyer says he doesn’t understand.
    • I tell him that as the sale is for 5300 insuring it for 5000 will mean thee is no payout as you can’t underinsure.
    • Buyer informs me there is a lack of trust and pulls out of the deal.
    • I ask the buyer what has happened and let him know I’ve done everything requested including buying the Sun.
    Last edited by mr.chef; 26th November 2020 at 12:44.

  2. #2
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Certainly a complete time waster, but not sure they have done enough to be a villain.

    This sounds a familiar tale to me, there are people who are clearly not suited to vintage watches and should only buy brand new from a shop were they can examine them in person.

    Even if you had sold it to him, there would have been issues later on and a request for a refund. Look I've found micro scratches on a 50 year old watch etc

  3. #3
    Master
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    More of a numpty than a villain.

  4. #4
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    I would have pulled out by about bullet point 6.

    I can understand being cautious before you park 5k+ in someone's bank account but that list verges on the unstable.

    Leave a Timewaster post on H&V.

  5. #5
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Is this worthy of a villain thread?

    Well Ive met you at a GTG and we had a good chat about Speedmasters, I also held and viewed the watch in question and its a beautiful color.
    Very cautious buyer, simply a watch of this value and detail its much easier to make the effort yourself (buyer) and go and meet up even if it is a bit a difficult with lockdown.

    Sell it to someone else without the hassle, buyer was more of a messer than villain I would say

  6. #6
    Craftsman davidj54's Avatar
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    I personally wouldnt want to deal with this person, each time youve met a request hes made you jump through more hoops. I get the need to be cautious when sending large sums when there is no buyer protection like you get on eBay, but why not just say from the beginning can you take dial and movement photos, a pic with a current newspaper and tell me your nearest airport as I live in NI. The terms of the deal, including the insurance issue, could be discussed then before you start running back and forth to your bank and newsagents.

    I agree with previous comments though more of a time waster than an outright villain. Maybe there should be an extra option for that on H&V, rather than just the outright hero or villain. I made a sale once where the guy totally wasted my time, but it wasnt enough for me to justify a villain post.

  7. #7
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    It is perfectly possible to put an H&V post that is neither.
    A simple "insert username here" - Unimpressed in the title with the above description in the text would be fine.
    The H & V forum doesn't have to be as bipolar as it sometimes gets.
    And this kind of behavious is very frustrating and timewasting (extra trip to dafety deposit, extra photography, extra buying of paper for nothing).
    Dave

  8. #8
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Is this worthy of a villain thread?

    Id say villain personally. Guy sounds a complete knob. Sounds like it would have been torture for weeks after the sale anyway so you probably dodged a bullet. Downside is your local thinks your a Sun reader now. That cant be undone

    So he pulled out based on trust because you want his precious watch to be fully insured? Weirdo
    Last edited by RustyBin5; 26th November 2020 at 12:54.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Dodged a bullet there Mr Chef.

    I think a neutral thread in H&V will allow others to make their own decision as to whether hes worth dealing with.

  10. #10
    Craftsman kildareman's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised if OP's photos end up being used elsewhere. Lots of photos for a simple sale I think.

  11. #11
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    More of a numpty than a villain.
    Maybe. But Id sure like to know who as I wouldnt like to deal with someone like that personally.

  12. #12
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Personally, I would want to be given a heads up of a complete time waster. If you feel "villain" is too strong, just name them in H&V and state exactly what you have said there for other people to make their mind on future transactions. I wouldn't want to go through that and lose other buyers if I listed a watch.

  13. #13
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Yeah - Post up his ID with a brief note of him being a timewaster.

    I would have stopped responding to messages from him probably around line 8

  14. #14
    Master
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    Being in NI myself i appreciate it is more awkward to arrange a f2f for a deal. I have flown to the mainland a couple of times for a watch, and also had posted in each direction. Never had a problem with RMSD or Royal Mail, bar the latter being slow in these covid times. It may have simply been a change of mind. Better before you send it and they find "fault" and want to return.
    As an aside, IMHO until the money has cleared in your account it is not sold, merely OHPF, and you should have advised other interested parties as such.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    I think letting people know that that the person in question is a bit of time waster is a good thing. I understand that its a lot of money and he was buying on trust, he is right to do due diligence but both seller and buyer should be clear from the outset (not saying you were not).

    This is not villain behaviour but I would not want to deal with them.
    I agree with the comments on possibly dodging a bullet. I would have put money on there being issues going forward.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 26th November 2020 at 14:22.

  16. #16
    Craftsman
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    You have the patience of a saint.

  17. #17
    Craftsman Russ's Avatar
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    You've been messed about. Most experiences on here will go quite smoothly but every now and then you will encounter strange behaviour. Put it down to experience and keep a list mental or otherwise of people you won't deal with again. I've agreed a purchase before now to be told no bank transfer but cash for a FTF. Off I pop to the bank and draw out thousands. Arrive home to receive a message saying I've changed my mind. Back to the bank to pay it back in with the cashier looking at me like I'm a bloody drug dealer by now. Ten days later the seller sells the watch anyway.
    Last edited by Russ; 26th November 2020 at 13:10.

  18. #18
    I too would want to avoid dealing this member.

    'Buyer replies that the deal is done...' End of, IMO.

    R






    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  19. #19
    Buyer couldn't afford your watch and shouldn't have p***ed you about like that.

    Insure it with a proper service like Secursus and there's no problem with special delivery to/from NI.

    You had your time wasted.

  20. #20
    Having to buy the Sun is one of the most disgusting things I've ever read on here

    You have far more patience than most I'd wager though

  21. #21
    Master
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    You bought the S*n poor poor taste.

    Other than that seems a bit of a piss take not a villain but certainly someone Id avoid

  22. #22
    "Buyer tells me to buy a newspaper"

    I wouldn't put a villain thread but I would put an "utter time waster" thread.

    If anyone wants high res photos always best to send them a link to an album on iCloud photos or Google photos, just remember to have the location turned off for the album.

  23. #23
    Master
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    This is a difficult one as hes not a villain. Hes also not someone Id ever want to deal with and Id have appreciated the opportunity to have know that before hand if Id ever crossed paths, as Im sure in hindsight you would as well. So on that basis maybe you should post a make your mind up type post.

  24. #24
    Master aldfort's Avatar
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    I'd suggest buyer might be a scammer.

    Not scamming you but using all of your lovely hi-res photo's to scam somebody else.

  25. #25
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    I can understand someone having a wobble but to say he doesn't trust you is a very strong statement from the buyer - agree posting a 'timewaster?' seems fair as he's placing all the blame on you!

  26. #26
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldfort View Post
    I'd suggest buyer might be a scammer.

    Not scamming you but using all of your lovely hi-res photo's to scam somebody else.
    Now - there is a possibility.

  27. #27
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    When you walked out of the newsagent with The Sun I hope you had the decency to hide it inbetween the pages of a Razzle

  28. #28
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    You have to name this character.

  29. #29
    Master
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    10 days is taking the #### to do a deal. I have had several people waste my time in the SC for a few days but nothing that bad.

  30. #30
    Master
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    Well I think a xxxxx - time waster post in H&V would be fair. Most of us would prefer not to deal with berks like this, and a tip off would be useful.

    Lovely watch btw

  31. #31
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Bullet dodged. It was a day's work reading that exchange, never mind having to do it.

  32. #32
    Very disappointing.

    I would agree on the need to have this in H&V, so that members might draw their own conclusions.

  33. #33
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    When you walked out of the newsagent with The Sun I hope you had the decency to hide it inbetween the pages of a Razzle
    that is the sharpest comment I have read in 2020.

    The humiliation of being thought of as a Sun reader its just to much.

  34. #34
    Master jukeboxs's Avatar
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    You've been more than patient. I'd say definitely worthy of a Timewaster thread so others can avoid this loser. Hope you manage to sell to an actual decent buyer, perhaps one of the other interested parties. P.S. The chap should be refunding you for "The Sun".

  35. #35
    For the purposes of H & V thread, a villain is not just a scammer. Someone who most would not want to deal with is a villain IMO. I think the buyer here qualifies as such.

  36. #36
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I think The Sun newspaper was a test to check your location. If like me you had lived in the Merseyside region you wouldn't be able to buy one

  37. #37
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    You've been more than patient. I'd say definitely worthy of a Timewaster thread so others can avoid this loser. Hope you manage to sell to an actual decent buyer, perhaps one of the other interested parties. P.S. The chap should be refunding you for "The Sun".
    and reputational damages if you were seen with it.

  38. #38
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Is he a forum regular? If not, I would be slightly concerned this is a way to obtain a complete set of hi-res photos ready to scam others. They seem to like Speedmasters too.

  39. #39
    Master
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    As many others have said, H&V is an area of the forum for feedback of all shades - not just great or terrible.

    I think a copy there of what you posted above is entirely acceptable, allowing:

    a. right to reply
    b. other members to make their own minds up

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I think The Sun newspaper was a test to check your location. If like me you had lived in the Merseyside region you wouldn't be able to buy one
    Can't buy the Guardian there either.. :-))

  41. #41
    I think you have done well losing the sale . From thr description of events, it sounds like they would not have been content if it was coming sealed from the factory. I would have given up alot quicker than yourself.

    Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

  42. #42
    Craftsman pepere13's Avatar
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    5,3K over a chocolate Speedy sounds like a bargain to me

  43. #43
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    You have to name this character.
    This
    Otherwise I’m avoiding all NI members just in case it’s him
    Last edited by Hood; 26th November 2020 at 20:23.

  44. #44
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Personally, I would want to be given a heads up of a complete time waster. If you feel "villain" is too strong, just name them in H&V and state exactly what you have said there for other people to make their mind on future transactions. I wouldn't want to go through that and lose other buyers if I listed a watch.
    Agreed. Should be named.

  45. #45
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Please let me know the buyers name - even by PM, so that on the odd occasion that I sell something I can avoid them like the plague.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  46. #46
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Annoying. However, the newspaper issue is a weird one and my worry is that the "buyer" intends scamming someone else.

    H&V post, please.

  47. #47
    Master MFB Scotland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Annoying. However, the newspaper issue is a weird one and my worry is that the "buyer" intends scamming someone else.

    H&V post, please.
    Agreed.

  48. #48
    Master
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    One further thought - did you have any evidence the prospective buyer is indeed in NI as claimed?

  49. #49
    Master
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    You should send him a bill for the time he wasted.

  50. #50
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Does sound a bit fishy, I must admit.

    Does the buyer have a record of buying in SC?

    If not, then I guess you could give them the benefit of the doubt and think they've just been over cautious (or maybe over ambitious with the funds they have available), but I think I'd have said "Let's leave it as you don't seem comfortable" at about the third request for YET MORE photos.

    Possibly not a villain (unless it turns out to be a hijacked account or a newish one), but it might be worth putting in a post tying your experience to the username, so people can decide if they want to jump through hoops, possibly needlessly, for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by jk103 View Post
    You should send him a bill for the time he wasted.
    If only- I'd never have to pay HMRC a penny again!


    M
    Last edited by snowman; 26th November 2020 at 15:43.
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